OCD and MAGICAL THINKING

Hello there.
During reading about the iodine, on the forum thread, and reading about glycine too, i saw a lot of people having OCD. That was quite surprising (there too, on this forum, people have OCD !!).

I too suffer from OCD. I have a big magical thinking (a thought that is really quick, thinking faster than me, tells me, for example, that if i put my cup at this place of the table, crossing lines with it, i will lose a part of my identity, and if i put it elsewhere, it tells that i will lose something else. This perverse and evil mechanism goes on and on, unless you decide to not listen to it (it's hard, really hard). Because, he wants to win, he really wants to win. You find yourself trying to negotiate with your own personally, with your own skills, with your own identity, with you own sensitivity... Who, what, in Christ's Sake, is causing this?

Living with this disorder - OCD and magical thinking - made me think, "How can it be? It seems really real!! I can not - or hardly - not listen to it, because it will means that i want what he threatens me with! How comes that a lot of humans, can think like that? What in the body, the brain or energetically, causes this??!! It's really weird!

Well, that's it.

Thank you. :)
 

Keit

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SunEterna said:
Living with this disorder - OCD and magical thinking - made me think, "How can it be? It seems really real!! I can not - or hardly - not listen to it, because it will means that i want what he threatens me with! How comes that a lot of humans, can think like that? What in the body, the brain or energetically, causes this??!! It's really weird!

I think that maybe it has to do with security, with the need to feel secure. And routine, i.e. repetitive actions are calming for the brain, when new experiences can be "too exciting" and chaotic. And if there is no well defined sense of self, then any change to the status quo can be indeed perceived as very threatening.

As you said, many have OCD to a larger or smaller degree. Me too! Sometimes it is very good, if it serves personal aim or helps others. Sometimes it is only temporary, especially in the new surroundings until the brain and body get used it and find balance. In this sense OCD serves as a kind of protection from being overwhelmed. As with everything it depends on the context and intensity.

By the way, don't know if you or others aware of it, but apparently there is research about NAC also being a good OCD calming agent. Here's one paper as an example.
 

bjorn

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Hi SunEterna

I can relate, OCD when dominant makes life unlivable. Especially when you have it around people

If it makes life unlivable I think there is no other choose to understand where those thought come from. In the end, we choose it unconsciously. Making the chooses apparent, making it conscious is the only solution. Only than can we undo it.

I don’t know if anything sincere can come out of OCD which is helpful with the aim. I never found anything. I thinks it’s useless really.
 

Keit

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bjorn said:
I don’t know if anything sincere can come out of OCD which is helpful with the aim. I never found anything. I thinks it’s useless really.

Ok, let me clarify it a bit. Perhaps not full blown OCD, but OCD traits. For example, in my personal case it would be being a news junkie. Everyday and throughout the day checking for updates, checking the forum, and keeping my finger on the pulse in general. Being attentive to details, making to do lists, going over and over certain points in my head, making sure that nothing is being left out or forgotten. Being organised in general, and making sure that my surroundings are tidy.

Yes, these things calm me down and provide me with an illusion of control. But they can also be beneficial if they don't interfere with everyday life, but can actually assist with it and allow one to be aware and alert. The point is indeed to be aware and remain open to feedback if I forget myself and become too preoccupied with unnecessary details. And most of all network in order to move forward and constantly strive toward improvement. Hope it's more clear.
 

bjorn

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In my case I never found anything sincere in those compulsively thoughts. No trace of empathy. Only obsessions for some poisonous need for control. No matter how small.

But I can’t speak for everyone. Hopefully it can work out more positively for others. Maybe it could for me if somehow applied correctly.
 
Keit said:
SunEterna said:
Living with this disorder - OCD and magical thinking - made me think, "How can it be? It seems really real!! I can not - or hardly - not listen to it, because it will means that i want what he threatens me with! How comes that a lot of humans, can think like that? What in the body, the brain or energetically, causes this??!! It's really weird!

I think that maybe it has to do with security, with the need to feel secure. And routine, i.e. repetitive actions are calming for the brain, when new experiences can be "too exciting" and chaotic. And if there is no well defined sense of self, then any change to the status quo can be indeed perceived as very threatening.

As you said, many have OCD to a larger or smaller degree. Me too! Sometimes it is very good, if it serves personal aim or helps others. Sometimes it is only temporary, especially in the new surroundings until the brain and body get used it and find balance. In this sense OCD serves as a kind of protection from being overwhelmed. As with everything it depends on the context and intensity.

By the way, don't know if you or others aware of it, but apparently there is research about NAC also being a good OCD calming agent. Here's one paper as an example.

OCD for me seems to be related to lack of confidence. I don't have that much compulsions, because i know it is useless and when i do a compulsive, an obsession is created instantly in my compulsion, so, i don't want to play the game. I have a lot of magical thinking. Something in my mind gives me orders, tells me something i say or do will change the reality, people, me... I see the mechanism and i have the feeling it is not me, like it is somebody trying to steal my energy. Because, i don't feel good doing the compulsions, because this thing threats me... It clearly says (if i can say it like this) that i will lose something. And this mechanism is quicker than my thinking system. It makes links really quick, create an idea really quickly, linking acts i do, ideas it generates and "signs" in the environment. It is crazy but i tend to believe it, because it makes me fear a lot.

bjorn said:
Hi SunEterna

I can relate, OCD when dominant makes life unlivable. Especially when you have it around people

If it makes life unlivable I think there is no other choose to understand where those thought come from. In the end, we choose it unconsciously. Making the chooses apparent, making it conscious is the only solution. Only than can we undo it.

I don’t know if anything sincere can come out of OCD which is helpful with the aim. I never found anything. I thinks it’s useless really.

Yes, really useless. It serves a lot the dark because of the negativity of it
Keit said:
bjorn said:
I don’t know if anything sincere can come out of OCD which is helpful with the aim. I never found anything. I thinks it’s useless really.

Ok, let me clarify it a bit. Perhaps not full blown OCD, but OCD traits. For example, in my personal case it would be being a news junkie. Everyday and throughout the day checking for updates, checking the forum, and keeping my finger on the pulse in general. Being attentive to details, making to do lists, going over and over certain points in my head, making sure that nothing is being left out or forgotten. Being organised in general, and making sure that my surroundings are tidy.

Yes, these things calm me down and provide me with an illusion of control. But they can also be beneficial if they don't interfere with everyday life, but can actually assist with it and allow one to be aware and alert. The point is indeed to be aware and remain open to feedback if I forget myself and become too preoccupied with unnecessary details. And most of all network in order to move forward and constantly strive toward improvement. Hope it's more clear.

Yes, sometimes it is really negative. When you're in the stress and the fear... "i forgot something, i forgot something, i'll can't concentrate myself on something else if i don't find what i lost, because, what i concentrate myself on despite having lost an idea, means i'll can forget what i am concentrating on..." It is really obsessive. :D This negative and bad. Fears, a lot of fears... but what for?
 

bjorn

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[quote author= SunEterna]It is crazy but i tend to believe it, because it makes me fear a lot.[/quote]

It is crazy. And even when it becomes obvious I still tried to rationalize it. Worst thing is I even rewarded myself if I gave in.


I found it helpful to uncover the how and why of those thoughts.

By writing those down.

Than start to think about how those thoughts don’t serve me, why it is crazy. How completely soulless it is to carry on like that on and what thoughts are actually healthy to deal with such a situation

Last bold sentence is important.

After a while you start to realize it and it becomes real. But it takes time.


OCD doesn’t dominate me any longer. I am grateful because it prevented me from enjoying life in the moment, always being stressful. I could hide it very well and I have good memories. But I never really could enjoy the moment if you know what I mean.
 
bjorn said:
[quote author= SunEterna]It is crazy but i tend to believe it, because it makes me fear a lot.
OCD doesn’t dominate me any longer. I am grateful because it prevented me from enjoying life in the moment, always being stressful. I could hide it very well and I have good memories. But I never really could enjoy the moment if you know what I mean.
[/quote]

Hell yeah, i know! :D You are concentrated on this mechanism, it avoids you being fully opened to the reality (your real self and the others).
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
[quote author= SunEterna]You are concentrated on this mechanism, it avoids you being fully opened to the reality (your real self and the others).[/quote]

Yes it was a nuisance, more than that. Couldn’t finish my study because of it. Difficult time holding on to jobs. Even unemployed at the moment.

All priorities where set aside because of this ''magical thinking''. Well, it would be unfair to only blame OCD. Being emotional bankrupt also played its part.

Anyhow, don’t care. I am still young. And every day I succeed more into keeping myself preoccupied in a healthy way.
 
bjorn said:
[quote author= SunEterna]You are concentrated on this mechanism, it avoids you being fully opened to the reality (your real self and the others).

Yes it was a nuisance, more than that. Couldn’t finish my study because of it. Difficult time holding on to jobs. Even unemployed at the moment.

All priorities where set aside because of this ''magical thinking''. Well, it would be unfair to only blame OCD. Being emotional bankrupt also played its part.

Anyhow, don’t care. I am still young. And every day I succeed more into keeping myself preoccupied in a healthy way.
[/quote]

Yeah, really sad that it hinders so much... Me too i am unemployed... But i don't only have OCD. I have fatigue, i'm always tired... And OCD is an anxiety disorder, so, it can me worsened by lack of sleep and other stressful events!

What do you mean by emotional bankrupt?

Yeah, that's good trying to reach a better state of being, respecting the body and the soul, a good path to take i think.
 

bjorn

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[quote author= SunEterna]What do you mean by emotional bankrupt?[/quote]

Realized I was self-centered in many of my motivations in life. I didn’t really hurt anyone but I also really didn’t sincerely cared about others. I thought I did. But it was all a lie. I also had a lot of past-regrets. The state of the world and the non-caring attitude of the people close to me also broke my heart. I was stuck and couldn’t look forwards any more. So everything fell apart. After a time of depression it became clear to me that I had to find new motivations, which speak to the soul sort of speak. Which was a real struggle and still ongoing. But the worst is definitely behind me.


[quote author= SunEterna]Yeah, really sad that it hinders so much[/quote]

It does, but the harsh reality of it is that we can either choose between self-pity, self-destruction, and self-hate or try to fix it. There is no other way.


[quote author= SunEterna]Yeah, that's good trying to reach a better state of being, respecting the body and the soul, a good path to take i think[/quote]

I realized after a while that whenever I was in pain it helped if I thought about how I could relief others from the suffering I was experiencing. It always gave me the right shock to carry on. With that I discovered is that empathy is the only real motivation that speaks to the soul. And with that motivation, I could look forward in life again.


[quote author= SunEterna]Me too i am unemployed... But i don't only have OCD. I have fatigue, i'm always tired[/quote]

Sorry to hear that :( How is your ''Iodide'' intake? I have more clarity of mind thanks to it!! Did it did the same for you?
 

kalibex

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bjorn said:
I realized after a while that whenever I was in pain it helped if I thought about how I could relief others from the suffering I was experiencing. It always gave me the right shock to carry on. With that I discovered is that empathy is the only real motivation that speaks to the soul. And with that motivation, I could look forward in life again.

Does seem like simply 'turning away from the mirror' is the only realistic way forward for us all....
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
[quote author= kalibex]Does seem like simply 'turning away from the mirror' is the only realistic way forward for us all....[/quote]

There is no turning back I think kalibex. That would be life of lies. ''Life is only real when I am'' comes to mind. Sometimes it helps I think is to look back, see ourselves now. And ask ourselves if we truly want to return to that state. Conscious suffering is always worth it, even how bleak it may appear at times :)
 

3DStudent

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SunEterna, how is your Diet? Clearing that helps along with getting enough sleep and stress reduction. I don't have a lot of the magical thinking symptoms, but these days it's mostly germophobia and perfectionism. There are some other threads on the forum if you search for "OCD".

I find it interesting to see how symptoms fade and new ones come. Some people are nitpicky about certain things or just orderly or passionate about something. Don't think they know the enslavement your thoughts can give when you have OCD. People with OCD learn to hide it well for fear of being socially outcasted. It runs on my mom's side and she's said she has it, but she once described her symptoms and I was surprised because I don't see them.

I tell my therapist that "Everything is OCD." All my thoughts and actions can be traced to some form of OCD. The way I walk, talk, or the obsession to research trivial things to "know it all." You have to stop the snowball before it starts rolling down the hill. I think it's pretty useless and takes your time and life away. I find myself more often recently saying, "I hate OCD!" Though there was a point in the book OCD and Me where the author says her friend was able to deal with the shock of being in New York on 9/11 because he had severe OCD and was always in a state of anxiety.

I used to have those magical thinkings, like someone will die if you don't do this or that. From an early age, I knew there was some weird thing that preys on us, that we today call the Predator's Mind. It didn't seem biologically efficient to me even as a kid. Like what evolutionary purpose does a mind that preys upon itself serve? So I wonder if as I age that my current class of symptoms will fade away and I'll have just mildly silly symptoms. :P

In many ways OCD is indeed "pattern recognition run amok". Because it will pick out anything remotely threatening in your environment and link something vague to threaten you. For forgetting something, I always have the same list of daily items I carry, my Every Day Carry. Any other items specific to the trip I add to the mental list. I used to make a list of everything I take on high school field trips, but don't anymore, instead when all else fails, I usually just say, "I have the most important things." And that is enough.

Bjorn, was there something specific that pushed you into a state of little or no OCD symptoms? I know diet and knowledge gained from the forum has likely helped me a bit.
 

Odyssey

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Hi SunEterna. I want to ask how your diet is going as well. I remember you wrote about being keto/paleo. How is that working out? Are you getting enough omega 3 fats (DHA, EPA found in fatty fish and grass fed meats) for healthy brain function?

Also, have you ever been to a doctor or therapist to help you address these OCD tendencies?
 
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