On Death

obyvatel

The Living Force
I have been thinking a lot about death at present due to a personal situation and guided by Laura's post here , I started to look into the work of Dr Elizabeth Kubler Ross on this topic. Dr EKR's work on the five stages of grief while coming to terms with a terminal condition outlined in her book "On Death and Dying" seems to have received significant attention. Though the stages are not so well demarcated in real life experience, they provide a roadmap for understanding the mental state of a loved one coming to terms with a terminal condition and is useful for caregivers and family/friends. The wikipedia version for this Kubler Ross model is here .
I was more interested in Dr EKR's work on the question of life after death which she outlined in a book "On Life After Death". Bear has provided a review of this book in this thread . Her work on this topic is a combination of scientific research and seeking with the heart. She and her team has documented many thousands of cases of near death experiences (NDEs) and out of body experiences (OBEs). Her data is based both on experiences of patients who were considered clinically dead and later came back to life as well as techniques to generate OBEs under controlled circumstances. Faced with what I perceived as "asking" from some aged family members, I listened to the audio version of this book and decided to share the following paraphrased version with them.
[quote author=paraphrased summary from On Life After Death]
There are three stages to the moment of death. Death refers to the physical body which can be regarded as a temporary house - or cocoon which houses a butterfly. The butterfly is the Real Self or the soul. The physical body or cocoon is animated by physical energy. As soon as the cocoon is in an irreparable condition - be it from suicide, murder, heart attack, or chronic disease, it doesn't matter what happened - it will release the butterfly, your soul so to speak. Symbolically speaking, when the butterfly leaves the cocoon, it marks the beginning of the second stage. When your cocoon is in such a condition that you could neither breathe nor could your pulse or brain waves be measured, your butterfly has already left the cocoon. At this second stage you are supplied with psychic energy, while in the first stage you were supplied with physical energy. In the second stage, you are inhabiting a temporary ethereal body which is animated by this psychic energy. In the ethereal (or astral) body, you will experience
a) physical wholeness and well-being. The ethereal body is not affected by the pain, disease, amputation or mutilation that may have affected the physical body. There is a feeling of serenity and detachment.
b) total awareness of the environment. You will be able to see and hear what is happening in the area you were in immediately before the death of the physical body. You will also be able to read the thoughts of people present.
c) ability to travel anywhere you want to at the speed of your thought. You could visit relatives or close friends in distant places the instant you think about it. The ethereal body is not constrained in time and space as the physical body.
d) presence of relatives/friends who have preceded you in death by a few minutes to several decades. You will also meet what is described as guardian angels or spirit guides. Strong emotional bonds formed while being in the physical body with now deceased human beings and religious figures may play a role in who is present to greet you in this stage. Nobody dies alone.
Communication between those in the ethereal body happens through thought transference – there is no need for verbal communication.
After having met with ancestors/relatives/spirit guides, you will come to a symbolic crossing. For some, it may be a river; for some, a mountain pass; for some a bridge or tunnel - whatever form this crossing takes has cultural as well as individual significance.
After having made this crossing, you are at its end embraced by light. This is the third stage. This is the realm of spiritual energy. After this, it is not possible to return to the earthly body (referring to the cases of near death experiences and out-of-body experiences of people who have not undergone the process of physical death but have temporarily inhabited the ethereal or astral body). But you wouldn't want to return to it anyway, for after seeing the light nobody wants to go back. In this light, you will experience for the first time what man could have been. Here there is understanding without judging, and here you experience unconditional love. In the presence of this cosmic consciousness, which many people compare with Christ or God, with love or light, you will come to know that all your life on earth was nothing but a school that you had to go through in order to pass certain tests and learn special lessons. As soon as you have finished this school and mastered your lessons, you are allowed to go home, to graduate.
In this light, in the presence of God, Christ, or whatever you want to name it, you look back on your entire life from the first day until the last. With this viewing of your own life you have reached the third stage. On this level you are no longer in the possession of the consciousness from the first stage, or of the awareness from the second. You are now in possession of knowledge. You know in minute detail every thought you had at any time during your life on earth. You remember every deed, and know every word that you ever spoke. This recapitulation is only a very small part of your knowing because at this moment you know all consequences resulting from your thoughts, and from every one of your words and deeds.
God is unconditional love. During this review of your earthly life you will not blame God for your fate, but you will know that you yourself were your own worst enemy since you are now accusing yourself of having neglected so many opportunities to grow - to grow in understanding, to grow in love, to grow in all those things which we still have to learn.
[/quote]
Overall, this material seems to chime well with some of the things that the C's have said. Since it has a certain basis in research, I am inclined to have a degree of trust in this material.
 

obyvatel

The Living Force
There is a huge volume of material available from various religions tackling the same question of "what happens after death". It has been said that religions exist and survive for a large measure by generating and then exploiting the fear common people have about death. This makes sense as in a STS world operating largely under the control of hyperdimensional 4D STS, good (in the sense of STO like) deeds seldom seem to fetch good results. So all the twisted exhortations to "be good" and "do good" from mainstream religions directed towards common people are geared towards reaping rewards for such deeds in afterlife. Most religions use a terrifying image of the suffering of "sinners" in after-life to keep the sheep in line during their lifetimes. Like good disinfo, some elements similar to the description that EKR has given are present and sandwiched with brazen lies to create an image that would strike fear and trepidation in the bravest of hearts.
First, take the obsessive occupation with the physical body after death that is probably handed down from the Egyptians. Even though nowadays one does not encounter "mummified" bodies buried with property and slaves, still a certain degree of embalming and adorning the "dead body" is in vogue. An underlying belief is that the soul takes some of the earthly possessions to the next world. From the little that is known about existence in the astral or the non-physical realms, it seems unlikely that physical objects (or their ethereal images) need to be transported to that realm.
Next, take the crossing that a soul is supposed to go through in the second stage of EKR's description. Per my understanding, this crossing seems like the secure conduit which transports souls to 5D according to the C's. Now according to the Hindu belief (source Garuda Purana), such a crossing is said to involve the river Vaitarani. Sinful souls encounter a river which is very wide and instead of water, it is filled with blood and pus and infested by crocodiles and flesh eating birds. The banks of the river is said to be formed of bones of the dead and the mud around it is formed of blood and flesh. But wait, all is not lost. Even if you failed to please the Gods through good deeds in the lifetime, your passage would still be eased if the family members organized for elaborate funeral rites, mostly designed to fatten the pockets of the priests who could plead your case. And if family members are not loving enough to doll out the cash and offerings, they would incur your wrath as you would come back to haunt them as a ghost stuck in between the world of living and the dead. This belief system is so strong that poor people would mortgage their meager belongings or take out loans at exorbitant interest rates to pay for the funeral rites of their deceased parents. This happens even to this day. If someone refuses to fall prey to this racket, he/she invites social ostracization at the minimum and physical danger in extreme cases. Makes me want to take a bathroom break to puke in horror, anger and disgust.
In Greek mythology, the soul is supposed to cross the river Styx which is said to have water so foul, that if the Gods drank from it, they would lose their voice for 9 years. The boatman Charon would not carry a soul across unless he had a coin (most likely gold) and so dead people were given a coin under their tongue. Wonder if anyone checked back later as to where the coins went.
Interestingly, EKR mentions a mountain-pass with beautiful wild flowers as the personally significant image representing this crossing.

Consider next the life review that happens at what EKR describes as the third stage. This is also in line with what I believe the C's said about understanding lesson profiles and further incarnations. Indications are that such review is conducted largely by the individual him/herself surrounded by knowledge. EKR says there is no judging and condemnation. In contrast, I think most readers will be familiar with the dreadful pictures of demons torturing souls in hell once some judge has condemned them there as the principal theme in all major religions.
Nothing really new here - still I had an emotional reaction at the stark contrast between a probable picture of life after death painted by EKR and that of the mainstream religions.
 
H

Hildegarda

Guest
obyvatel said:
First, take the obsessive occupation with the physical body after death that is probably handed down from the Egyptians. [..] An underlying belief is that the soul takes some of the earthly possessions to the next world. From the little that is known about existence in the astral or the non-physical realms, it seems unlikely that physical objects (or their ethereal images) need to be transported to that realm.
With Egyptians, there seemed to be something else going on too. For them, initially at least, it wasn't so much taking the possessions with you as depending on their material energy, assimilating it to sustain the life of the spirit. The physical body, preserved after death, was also considered necessary to "anchor" the soul components, Ka and Ba, and allow them to combine into a form in which the dead could live forever.
 

obyvatel

The Living Force
This is from Healing the Spirits of Trauma thread. I felt that my question may detract from the discussion on that thread and was more applicable to this thread - so I am posting it here.

[quote author=Laura]
It's very much like what one finds doing Spirit Release therapy though SRT is a bit more straightforward. What I've found in most cases is that an attachment can frequency match to a trauma in an individual and get "stuck" there. For example, one client had a bike accident as a child. He was riding his bike near a hospital where someone had just died. The attached spirit was in a more or less confused after death state, was attracted to the frequency of the crying child, and presto, instant connection. The child had an injury from the fall and this attached entity sort of "lived" there for years, affecting the client's thoughts and emotions as well as perpetuating the injury. (He had a bum knee.) Basically, this entity's life experiences strongly influenced how he thought and reacted to things. It was a simple matter (using SRT techniques) to identify this entity, to counsel her and persuade her to leave and continue the normal dying process that had been suspended for many years.
[/quote]

My question is what makes a spirit earth-bound? Is it lack of knowledge about what could happen after death? Trying to reconcile with the stuff described by Kubler Ross, it seems that after death of the body, the entity passed into the second stage of inhabiting an ethereal body but did not go into the light which is described as the third stage. If the Kubler Ross view is accurate, then the earth-bound entity was either ignorant and/or refused the "crossing" into the light for some reason. Maybe the terrifying pictures painted of the "crossing" could be one such possible reason? If thoughts have more power in shaping reality in the ethereal realms, then perhaps such images become the reality for the involved entity in the ethereal state if the entity believed in such a description given to him/her while in the body? Just thinking aloud here.

I am basically trying to understand what interrupts the normal dying process and then how to prevent that from happening through information shared with living people.
 

manitoban

SuperModerator
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obyvatel said:
My question is what makes a spirit earth-bound? Is it lack of knowledge about what could happen after death? Trying to reconcile with the stuff described by Kubler Ross, it seems that after death of the body, the entity passed into the second stage of inhabiting an ethereal body but did not go into the light which is described as the third stage. If the Kubler Ross view is accurate, then the earth-bound entity was either ignorant and/or refused the "crossing" into the light for some reason. Maybe the terrifying pictures painted of the "crossing" could be one such possible reason? If thoughts have more power in shaping reality in the ethereal realms, then perhaps such images become the reality for the involved entity in the ethereal state if the entity believed in such a description given to him/her while in the body? Just thinking aloud here.
Very interesting thread obyvatel. My thoughts are similar to yours, and in addition I wonder if the individual whose spirit stays earth bound has some kind of overwhelming emotional or psychic attachment (possibly to a person, situation, lifestyle) to the physical world that binds them to it. This combined with ignorance, fear, or confusion leads their spirit to remain earthbound? Just wondering about this as an additonal factor because of the immense number of people who do have fearful thoughts, or are confused, lack knowledge, etc, yet they do not remain earthbound.
 

SeekinTruth

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Thank you for sharing this, obyvatel. I read the Healing the Spirits of Trauma thread today. Very intriguing. I'm still thinking about it. And I'm also interested in the last question you raised and look forward to further discussion. My thoughts are very similar to yours about the whole issue, but I would be interested in others' input.

Hi, manitoban. I just read your post. Interesting question. Yeah, I wonder too what makes the difference in staying earth-bound. Perhaps the intensity of what you mention and many other factors makes the difference between those who complete the process of death and those who remain earthbound?
 

Al Today

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
obyvatel said:
My question is what makes a spirit earth-bound? [...] If the Kubler Ross view is accurate, then the earth-bound entity was either ignorant and/or refused the "crossing" into the light for some reason.

For myself, I refused the crossing. I cried out I'm Not Done!!! - And came back. I guess I am driven to learn some lesson and someone/thing has confidence that I may succeed. I dunno... BUT... here i am.

Earth-Bound? Perhaps this fragmented soul group all bound here for what I dunno. A group lesson perhaps? I dunno. Then again, perhaps there are walkers around this BBM, not of the lesson profile not earth-bond, but here to DO something, a mission perhaps??? These speculative possibilities could be endless.
 

manitoban

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Al Today said:
obyvatel said:
My question is what makes a spirit earth-bound? [...] If the Kubler Ross view is accurate, then the earth-bound entity was either ignorant and/or refused the "crossing" into the light for some reason.

For myself, I refused the crossing. I cried out I'm Not Done!!! - And came back. I guess I am driven to learn some lesson and someone/thing has confidence that I may succeed. I dunno... BUT... here i am.

Earth-Bound? Perhaps this fragmented soul group all bound here for what I dunno. A group lesson perhaps? I dunno. Then again, perhaps there are walkers around this BBM, not of the lesson profile not earth-bond, but here to DO something, a mission perhaps??? These speculative possibilities could be endless.
I'd guess that there is a difference between those who refuse the crossing for some mission/lessons as opposed to those who have died and do not pass through the crossing, but neither do they return to their physical bodies, they exist as an ethereal body sort of wandering around the physical world.

The possibilities are endless that's for sure!
 

mkrnhr

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Maybe they have a post-death trauma because of a violent death circumstance that leaves them in a state of confusion?
 

ripvanwinkle

Padawan Learner
Hello all,
I stumbled upon this thread by accident but, I'm glad I did. As I was reading through the information posted it got me thinking about spirit attachments. I remember reading once about Laura trying to remove a spirit attachment from a young man that was involved with a woman that he probaly shouldn't have been involved with. Now if spirits attach themselves to us due to the frequency with which we are resonating and we can change our frequency with such things as the EE program, increasing our knowledge base and other things, is it not possible to detach ourselves from these well, in some cases I guess we could call them parasites, spirits? Of course, once we change our frequency we would be open to other spirits that resonate on the same frequency as we do. But, the new frequency may be in line with shall I say not so dark spirits. Feedback?
 

danielabrig

A Disturbance in the Force
Hi everyone. Let me tell you a little is what Scientologists believe all this. They have a branch called Dianetics, which through sessions called auditing, they can return (called the fact to remember) on any point in the timeline of a being. There is a way of auditing that is the professional, through she does return to any past life (this supposedly true facts). In many cases it was stories of people at the time of his death that a tunnel and there are close relatives in it, when they cross the tunnel beings of the fourth dimension and will catch them erase the memory (this situation is painful and traumatic for being). Then we make off the land, and that's why I do not remember. All these things I heard from two friends who are into this religion (or cult). Now, I say, I read with interest most of all the information that is in www.quantumfuture.net but have not found anything to the contrary from this that "proved" by Scientologists auditing. There are many similarities in other issues with the Cassiopaeans what they say but I can not talk about death because I have not found the process from when we leave the body until we go to 5th density. As analyzed, it seems that these beings would not let us go to 5th density if we get caught in that tunnel. Anyone know where I can read more about this topic to death? I need to get better compare results of all this.
 

anart

The Living Force
For a little more data, the C's have stated that there is an energetic conduit (or 'cord') through which the soul travels upon death from 1D/2D/3D/4D to 5D (the contemplation zone) and that this conduit is impenetrable - therefore no one (or no thing) can 'get you' or 'stop you' in this transit. The soul can refrain from following the conduit due to confusion, but in that case, they're 'earthbound' in kind of a timeless state, like a ghost.

If I can find that session this afternoon, I'll post the relevant passage to give more detail.

From what I currently understand, the idea that this alien race is catching people and erasing their memories and sending them back sounds like quite a twist on the entire concept of reincarnation that is, to my understanding, part of the natural order of things and rather outside the realm of being 'messed with'. Just my take, though.
 

anart

The Living Force
Here is the passage I was thinking of:

950719 said:
Q: (L) Now, the question has arisen that, since other dimensional beings have the ability to kidnap or abduct or forcibly extract souls, do they also have the capability of manipulating our soul essences after they have left our bodies during the transition to fifth density?
A: Not correct.
Q: (L) They do not?
A: No, you see when your physical body expires, and you enter fifth density, this is done one way and one way only: by passing through a conduit which opens specifically for the purpose of transference from third density to fifth density. Now, something often referred to in your teminology as a silver thread, is like a closed line which opens when this conduit is needed. That's rather awkward, but it's the only way to describe it. So that when the physical body terminates, this line is opened forming a conduit through which the soul passes naturally. However, part of the existence of this conduit is that it is absolutely impenetrable by any force from any density level. Therefore, souls in the process of transferring from third density to fifth density are not in any way able to be molested or tampered with. And it should be mentioned here, also, that the soul imprint of the physical body always has a connection to fifth density and that is through the so-called "silver thread." That always exists as the third density soul's doorway to fifth density. It can be opened at a moment's notice whenever needed. When it is opened it becomes a conduit. Through that conduit the soul passes. And it is not subject to interferency by anything. This is not a deliberate construction, it is merely the natural process similar to what could be described as the protection mechanisms existing on second level density for creatures which are not capable of protecting themselves through their own conscious thought processes. For example, your turtle is contained within a shell that protects it. That shell is impenetrable by any natural forces, therefore nothing that is natural can harm that turtle. However, the same can exist for any creature when it is connected by the silver thread to fifth density. Once it is passing through the conduit produced by the opening of the silver thread, then, of course, it cannot be tampered with. Do you understand?
Q: (L) Yes, but why do so many souls, when they leave the body, not traverse this conduit, and why do they stay earthbound, and why do they attach to other bodies? Why does this condition exist?
A: That is a complicated question, however the best answer is choice is involved there for those souls who wish not to leave the plane of third density. The only possibility to do this is to be detached from the now expired physical body but still be within the third density plane, which, of course, is not natural, but nonetheless can occcur. In situations such as this, though it has been incorrectly reported, the silver thread is still attached and still remains a thread rather than a conduit. The soul is still attached to the silver thread but detached from the host body which has now expired. So the effect is very similar to being consciously aware of third density surroundings without a third density unit to accompany. Do you understand?
Q: (L) Yes. Okay...
A: Also, please be aware of the fact that once the soul leaves the confines of the physical body, the illusion of time passage is no longer apparent even when the soul remains on the third density plane. Therefore, it appears to that soul that no time whatsoever has passed. And, we mention this merely for you to contemplate all of the various meanings behind this.
 
obyvatel said:
I have been thinking a lot about death at present due to a personal situation and guided by Laura's post here , I started to look into the work of Dr Elizabeth Kubler Ross on this topic. Dr EKR's work on the five stages of grief while coming to terms with a terminal condition outlined in her book "On Death and Dying" seems to have received significant attention. Though the stages are not so well demarcated in real life experience, they provide a roadmap for understanding the mental state of a loved one coming to terms with a terminal condition and is useful for caregivers and family/friends. The wikipedia version for this Kubler Ross model is here .
I was more interested in Dr EKR's work on the question of life after death which she outlined in a book "On Life After Death". Bear has provided a review of this book in this thread . Her work on this topic is a combination of scientific research and seeking with the heart. She and her team has documented many thousands of cases of near death experiences (NDEs) and out of body experiences (OBEs). Her data is based both on experiences of patients who were considered clinically dead and later came back to life as well as techniques to generate OBEs under controlled circumstances. Faced with what I perceived as "asking" from some aged family members, I listened to the audio version of this book and decided to share the following paraphrased version with them.
[quote author=paraphrased summary from On Life After Death]
There are three stages to the moment of death. Death refers to the physical body which can be regarded as a temporary house - or cocoon which houses a butterfly. The butterfly is the Real Self or the soul. The physical body or cocoon is animated by physical energy. As soon as the cocoon is in an irreparable condition - be it from suicide, murder, heart attack, or chronic disease, it doesn't matter what happened - it will release the butterfly, your soul so to speak. Symbolically speaking, when the butterfly leaves the cocoon, it marks the beginning of the second stage. When your cocoon is in such a condition that you could neither breathe nor could your pulse or brain waves be measured, your butterfly has already left the cocoon. At this second stage you are supplied with psychic energy, while in the first stage you were supplied with physical energy. In the second stage, you are inhabiting a temporary ethereal body which is animated by this psychic energy. In the ethereal (or astral) body, you will experience
a) physical wholeness and well-being. The ethereal body is not affected by the pain, disease, amputation or mutilation that may have affected the physical body. There is a feeling of serenity and detachment.
b) total awareness of the environment. You will be able to see and hear what is happening in the area you were in immediately before the death of the physical body. You will also be able to read the thoughts of people present.
c) ability to travel anywhere you want to at the speed of your thought. You could visit relatives or close friends in distant places the instant you think about it. The ethereal body is not constrained in time and space as the physical body.
d) presence of relatives/friends who have preceded you in death by a few minutes to several decades. You will also meet what is described as guardian angels or spirit guides. Strong emotional bonds formed while being in the physical body with now deceased human beings and religious figures may play a role in who is present to greet you in this stage. Nobody dies alone.
Communication between those in the ethereal body happens through thought transference – there is no need for verbal communication.
After having met with ancestors/relatives/spirit guides, you will come to a symbolic crossing. For some, it may be a river; for some, a mountain pass; for some a bridge or tunnel - whatever form this crossing takes has cultural as well as individual significance.
After having made this crossing, you are at its end embraced by light. This is the third stage. This is the realm of spiritual energy. After this, it is not possible to return to the earthly body (referring to the cases of near death experiences and out-of-body experiences of people who have not undergone the process of physical death but have temporarily inhabited the ethereal or astral body). But you wouldn't want to return to it anyway, for after seeing the light nobody wants to go back. In this light, you will experience for the first time what man could have been. Here there is understanding without judging, and here you experience unconditional love. In the presence of this cosmic consciousness, which many people compare with Christ or God, with love or light, you will come to know that all your life on earth was nothing but a school that you had to go through in order to pass certain tests and learn special lessons. As soon as you have finished this school and mastered your lessons, you are allowed to go home, to graduate.
In this light, in the presence of God, Christ, or whatever you want to name it, you look back on your entire life from the first day until the last. With this viewing of your own life you have reached the third stage. On this level you are no longer in the possession of the consciousness from the first stage, or of the awareness from the second. You are now in possession of knowledge. You know in minute detail every thought you had at any time during your life on earth. You remember every deed, and know every word that you ever spoke. This recapitulation is only a very small part of your knowing because at this moment you know all consequences resulting from your thoughts, and from every one of your words and deeds.
God is unconditional love. During this review of your earthly life you will not blame God for your fate, but you will know that you yourself were your own worst enemy since you are now accusing yourself of having neglected so many opportunities to grow - to grow in understanding, to grow in love, to grow in all those things which we still have to learn.
Overall, this material seems to chime well with some of the things that the C's have said. Since it has a certain basis in research, I am inclined to have a degree of trust in this material.
[/quote]

The video below by Raymond Moody is a collection of accounts of NDE's which very much correlates with the above descriptions of life outside the body. It's not a very slick production and I think the film itself is quite a few years old but I found it interesting to listen to these personal accounts of people who have 'died' and come back.

_http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/life-after-life/
 
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