Origins of Violence: Climate Change in the Sahara 7,000 Years Ago

[Laura]

OpEdNews
Original Content at
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Origins-of-Violence-Clima-by-Allen-Heart-081009-766.html
________________________________

October 9, 2008
Origins of Violence: Climate Change in the Sahara 7,000 Years Ago
By Allen Heart
Review of The Origins and Diffusion of Patrism in Saharasia, c. 4000 BCE: Evidence for
a Worldwide, Climate-Linked Geographical Pattern in Human Behavior*

In his book, Saharasia, James DeMeo, Ph.D. has shown that violence may have had its origins in a
climate change that occurred several thousand years ago in what is now called the Sahara Desert
region of Africa. At one time the Sahara was green and luxuriant with rich flora and fauna. Life was
much easier and the people who lived there were peaceful and in harmony with their environment and
each other. Their culture was mutually nurturing and their social organization was open and
functional. Among my people they would be described as living according to the Original
Instructions. These Original Instructions were to love, honor and respect ALL Beings in the Web of
Life. In this aboriginal setting there was an inner harmony that reflected an outer harmony. His
research drew on anthropology, archaeology, climatology, ecology, and psychology to record the shift
from an "unarmored" matrist society to an "armored" patrist society. The extremely dry desert belt
which stretches across North Africa, through the Near East into Central Asia, which he calls
"Saharasia", had cultural evidence of the greatest extreme of repressive, painful, traumatic, and
violent behaviors that he identified as armored, patrist social institutions. Such societies are
characterized by the disruption of maternal-infant bonds as well as male-female bonds. At that
time, the farther away from the Saharasia zone, the more the evidence showed behaviors that were
more gentle, peaceful, harmonizing, mutually nurturing, not armored against the bonds that humanize
people. Such societies are described as matrist because they support and protect maternal-infant
and male-female bonds.

DeMeo writes that after 4000 BCE the climate of the Sahara began to get drier and the ecosystem
shifted to savannah and then increasingly to arid desert. Famines changed the physiology of people
through a change in their anatomy. Infants born into a struggle for survival failed to develop
normally. With the onset of starvation the anatomy of the brain began to change resulting in changed
function of the brain. The result most probably effected a change in personality.

Dr. DeMeo systematically analyzed anthropological data from 1170 subsistence cultures and noted
their change over time as the ecosystem shifted from lush grasslands and forests to desert. The
archaeological and historical materials suggested a marked change in human behavior. This
militaristic, man-centered development in human ecology was then traced as "armored" groups migrated
out of the arid regions and encountered other, less violent "unarmored" societies.

Prior to the onset of dry conditions in Saharasia, evidence for matrism is widespread, and evidence
for patrism is generally nonexistent. He argues that matrism constitutes the earliest, original, and
innate form of human behavior and social organization, while patrism, perpetuated by trauma-inducing
social institutions, first developed among Homo Sapiens in Saharasia under the pressures of severe
desertification, famine, and forced migrations.

He began to utilize the psychological insights of Wilhelm Reich to provide an understanding of the
mechanism by which patrist (armored, violent) behaviors become established and continued long after
the initial trauma has passed.

DeMeo's book summarizes the evidence and conclusions of his seven-year geographical study on the
worldwide, regional variation in human behavior, and related socio-environmental factors, a study
described in his doctoral dissertation (DeMeo 1985, 1986, 1987). In this research, DeMeo
specifically focused upon a major complex of traumatic and repressive attitudes, behaviors, social
customs and institutions which are correlated with violence and warfare. His study proceeded from
clinical and cross-cultural observations on the biological needs of infants, children, and
adolescents, the repressive and damaging effects that certain social institutions and classes of
harsh natural environment have upon those needs, and the behavioral consequences of such repression
and damage.

This research was made possible by "recent paleoclimatic and archaeological field studies (which
revealed previously hidden social and environmental conditions), and by the development of large,
global anthropological data bases composed of cultural data from hundreds to thousands of different
cultures from around the world." Computer technology allowed easy handling of this data to permit
systematic global geographical reviews of human behavior and social institutions. In doing so, Dr.
DeMeo uncovered a previously unobserved, but clear-cut global pattern in human behavior.

In comparing matrist and patrist culture it could be seen that the origin of violence was to be
found in childhood trauma and sexual-repression. His research was initially aimed at developing a
global geographical analysis of social factors related to early childhood trauma and sexual
repression, as a test of the sex-economic theory of Wilhelm Reich. Reich's theory, which developed
and diverged from psychoanalysis, labeled the destructive aggression and sadistic violence of Homo
sapiens a completely abnormal condition, resultant from the traumatically-induced chronic inhibition
of respiration, emotional expression, and pleasure-directed impulses. According to this viewpoint,
inhibition is made chronic within the individual by specific painful and pleasure-censoring rituals
and social institutions, which consciously or unconsciously interfere with maternal-infant and
male-female bonds. These rituals and institutions exist among both subsistence-level
"primitives" and technologically developed "civilized" societies.

Some examples of patrist rituals and institutions are: unconscious or rationalized infliction of
pain upon newborn infants and children through various means; separation and isolation of the infant
from its mother; indifference towards the crying, upset infant; immobilizing, round-the-clock
swaddling; denial of the breast to, and premature weaning of the infant; cutting of the child's
flesh, usually the genitals; traumatic toilet training; and demands to be quiet, uncurious, and
obedient, enforced by physical punishment or threats.

Other social institutions aim to control or crush the child's budding sexual interests, such as the
female virginity taboo, demanded by every culture worshiping a patriarchal high god, and the
punishment- and guilt-enforced arranged or compulsive marriage. Most of these ritual punishments and
restraints fall more painfully upon the female, though males are also greatly affected. Demands for
pain endurance, emotion-suppression, and uncritical obedience to elder (usually male) authority
figures regarding basic life decisions are integral aspects of such social institutions, which
extend to control adult behavior as well. These repressive institutions are supported and defended
by the average individual within a given society, irrespective of their painful, pleasure-reducing,
or life-threatening consequences, and are uncritically viewed as being "good", "character building"
experiences, a part of "tradition". Nevertheless, from such a complex of painful and
repressive social institutions comes the neurotic, psychotic, self-destructive, and sadistic
components of human behavior. These are expressed in a plethora of ways, either disguised and
unconscious or blatantly clear and obvious.

The concept of armor derived from Reich's sex-economics can be described as chronic personality
shielding that the developing child constructs to protect it from painful trauma.

Biophysical processes which normally lead to full and complete breathing, emotional expression, and
sexual discharge during orgasm are chronically blocked by the armor, to a greater or lesser extent,
leading to the accumulation of pent-up, undischarged emotional and sexual (bioenergetic) tension.
The dammed-up reservoir of internal tension drives the organism to behave in a generally
unconscious, distorted, self-destructive, and/or sadistic manner (Reich 1942, 1949). The above
processes occur whenever, and only whenever, attempts are made to irrationally deflect or mold human
primary biological needs or urges according to the demands of "culture". Examples include the denial
of the breast to an infant, the beating of a child for defecation or sexual expression, or the
forced marriage of young girls to old men ("child betrothal", "bride price").

Ritualized pain and the censoring of pleasure by social institutions have been seen in most known
cultures. Nevertheless there are a few cultures that neither inflict pain upon infants and children,
consciously or otherwise, nor do they repress the sexual interests of children or adults.
Significantly these are also "nonviolent societies with stable monogamous family bonds, and
congenial, friendly social relations."

Societies which traumatize their infants and children, and repress the emotional expression and
sexuality of their adolescents, always exhibit an array of neurotic, self-destructive, and violent
behaviors. In contrast, societies which treat infants and children with much physical affection and
gentle nurturance, and encourage emotional expression and adolescent sexuality as a good, are by
contrast psychically healthy and nonviolent. In fact, cross-cultural research has shown the
difficulty, even the impossibility, of finding any disturbed, violent society which does not also
traumatize its young and/or sexually repress them.

Using Taylor's terminology, and expanding upon his schema according to Wilhelm Reich's sex-economic
findings, these violent, repressive societies are called patrist They differ in many significant
aspects from matrist cultures, whose social institutions are designed to protect and enhance the
pleasurable maternal-infant and male-female bonds.

By examining the origins of human behavior using a geographical approach it became possible to
reconstruct a much clearer global understanding of our ancient cultural history. DeMeo was able to
show the cause-effect relationship between "traumatic and repressive social institutions" and
"destructive aggression and warfare." The great hope of mankind is that there existed "an ancient,
worldwide period of relatively peaceful social conditions, where warfare, male domination, and
destructive aggression were either absent, or at extremely minimal levels." It even became possible
to identify the "exact times and places on Earth where human culture first transformed from
peaceful, democratic, egalitarian conditions, to violent, warlike, despotic conditions."

Knowing the origins of violence we can retrace our steps along the human journey to recognize that
what we call "civilization" was, in part, a response to a need to armor our selves and our society
to protect against the attacks of violence that originated in climate change several thousand years
ago. Peace is possible now that we know what created war. James DeMeo has opened a new way to look
at war and peace.

More information at
http://www.real-dream-catchers.com/Native_American_Holocaust/origins_of_violence.html

Hmmm... in short, it was a time when many pathologies may have originated due to environmental stresses.

 

[Erna]

This article reminded me of an article that appeared on SOTT a while back:

Congo: Women Left for Dead and the Man Who's Saving Them

I'm no stranger to atrocities across the world, but nothing I have ever read had such an effect on me as this piece. I was unsettled for days afterwards, and I thought to myself what on earth causes these men to behave in this manner. I think the Congo must be the worst place on earth, from the day you are born you are in hell. A woman is nothing in that place.

This research is insightful and sheds a lot of light on the violence across Africa, but the Congo is probably the best example to use.

In this research, DeMeo specifically focused upon a major complex of traumatic and repressive attitudes, behaviors, social
customs and institutions which are correlated with violence and warfare. His study proceeded from
clinical and cross-cultural observations on the biological needs of infants, children, and
adolescents, the repressive and damaging effects that certain social institutions and classes of
harsh natural environment have upon those needs, and the behavioral consequences of such repression
and damage.

In comparing matrist and patrist culture it could be seen that the origin of violence was to be
found in childhood trauma and sexual-repression. His research was initially aimed at developing a
global geographical analysis of social factors related to early childhood trauma and sexual
repression, as a test of the sex-economic theory of Wilhelm Reich. Reich's theory, which developed
and diverged from psychoanalysis, labeled the destructive aggression and sadistic violence of Homo
sapiens a completely abnormal condition, resultant from the traumatically-induced chronic inhibition
of respiration, emotional expression, and pleasure-directed impulses. According to this viewpoint,
inhibition is made chronic within the individual by specific painful and pleasure-censoring rituals
and social institutions, which consciously or unconsciously interfere with maternal-infant and
male-female bonds. These rituals and institutions exist among both subsistence-level
"primitives" and technologically developed "civilized" societies.

Some examples of patrist rituals and institutions are: unconscious or rationalized infliction of
pain upon newborn infants and children through various means; separation and isolation of the infant
from its mother; indifference towards the crying, upset infant; immobilizing, round-the-clock
swaddling; denial of the breast to, and premature weaning of the infant; cutting of the child's
flesh, usually the genitals; traumatic toilet training; and demands to be quiet, uncurious, and
obedient, enforced by physical punishment or threats.

Most of these ritual punishments and restraints fall more painfully upon the female, though males are also greatly affected. Demands for
pain endurance, emotion-suppression, and uncritical obedience to elder (usually male) authority
figures regarding basic life decisions are integral aspects of such social institutions, which
extend to control adult behavior as well. These repressive institutions are supported and defended
by the average individual within a given society, irrespective of their painful, pleasure-reducing,
or life-threatening consequences, and are uncritically viewed as being "good", "character building"
experiences, a part of "tradition". Nevertheless, from such a complex of painful and
repressive social institutions comes the neurotic, psychotic, self-destructive, and sadistic
components of human behavior.

Ritualized pain and the censoring of pleasure by social institutions have been seen in most known
cultures. Nevertheless there are a few cultures that neither inflict pain upon infants and children,
consciously or otherwise, nor do they repress the sexual interests of children or adults.
Significantly these are also "nonviolent societies with stable monogamous family bonds, and
congenial, friendly social relations."

Societies which traumatize their infants and children, and repress the emotional expression and
sexuality of their adolescents, always exhibit an array of neurotic, self-destructive, and violent
behaviors. In contrast, societies which treat infants and children with much physical affection and
gentle nurturance, and encourage emotional expression and adolescent sexuality as a good, are by
contrast psychically healthy and nonviolent. In fact, cross-cultural research has shown the
difficulty, even the impossibility, of finding any disturbed, violent society which does not also
traumatize its young and/or sexually repress them.

DeMeo was able to show the cause-effect relationship between "traumatic and repressive social institutions" and
"destructive aggression and warfare."

_http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Detail.aspx?axd=DetailPaging.Search|1&axs=0|74602563%2c74602205%2c73183885%2c73183709%2c73183708%2c73183700%2c1702033%2c1702041%2c1702035%2c1702037%2c1702032%2c56547125|0&id=73183885 Congo initiation into manhood

_http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Detail.aspx?axd=DetailPaging.Search|1&axs=0|74602563%2c74602205%2c73183885%2c73183709%2c73183708%2c73183700%2c1702033%2c1702041%2c1702035%2c1702037%2c1702032%2c56547125|0&id=74602205 Congo initiation into manhood

_http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Detail.aspx?axd=DetailPaging.Search|1&axs=0|74602563%2c74602205%2c73183885%2c73183709%2c73183708%2c73183700%2c1702033%2c1702041%2c1702035%2c1702037%2c1702032%2c56547125|0&id=73183709 Congo initiation into manhood

_http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Detail.aspx?axd=DetailPaging.Search|1&axs=0|74602563%2c74602205%2c73183885%2c73183709%2c73183708%2c73183700%2c1702033%2c1702041%2c1702035%2c1702037%2c1702032%2c56547125|0&id=73183708 Congo initiation into manhood

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_http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Detail.aspx?axd=DetailPaging.Search|1&axs=0|72028627%2c72028620%2c72028615%2c72028608%2c72028603%2c72028599%2c72028596%2c72028594%2c72028593%2c72028590%2c72028589%2c72028588%2c72028585%2c72028583%2c72028579%2c72028578%2c72028574%2c72028571%2c72028566%2c72028560%2c72028553%2c72028545%2c72028540%2c1609021%2c1609020%2c1609013%2c1609023%2c1609022%2c1609026%2c1609025%2c1609024%2c1609014%2c1609019%2c1609018%2c1609017%2c1609016%2c1609015%2c1609012%2c1408895%2c1408891%2c1408889|0&id=72028553 The Massai Ritual of Circumcision

_http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Detail.aspx?axd=DetailPaging.Search|1&axs=0|72028627%2c72028620%2c72028615%2c72028608%2c72028603%2c72028599%2c72028596%2c72028594%2c72028593%2c72028590%2c72028589%2c72028588%2c72028585%2c72028583%2c72028579%2c72028578%2c72028574%2c72028571%2c72028566%2c72028560%2c72028553%2c72028545%2c72028540%2c1609021%2c1609020%2c1609013%2c1609023%2c1609022%2c1609026%2c1609025%2c1609024%2c1609014%2c1609019%2c1609018%2c1609017%2c1609016%2c1609015%2c1609012%2c1408895%2c1408891%2c1408889|0&id=1609020 Xhosa Boys Undertake Manhood Rituals

Abandonment and no nurturing:

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Famine:

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Early violence:

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And the result:

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Not to take away from the environmental effect, I just thought the childhood psychology was also interesting.

 

[Laura]

Well, you don't have to go to the Congo to see all the stuff DeMeo listed; just go into any good Jewish, Christian or Muslim household.

Monotheism: the original psychopathy.

 

[Pierre]

The Massai Ritual of Circumcision

And unfortunately we don't have to go as far as Kenya to find circumcision.

Cutting the penis of a soft innocent baby who is just a few days old. Didn't human beings become totally crazy (ponerized ?) to accept of even ask for the torture of their own babies ?

I didn't get circumcised but at the age of 5 or 6 because of chronic otitis my mother brought me to a ear "specialist", without any anesthesia he pierced my two eardrums.

The pain was dreadful but more important than that I remember that something broke in me. My mother, the person a boy loves the most, the doctor (a prominent authority symbol) betrayed me.

If you can't trust the ones who are meant to protect you how will you later trust your colleagues, your neighbors, your friends ? This disappearance of trust hinders sharing, giving, meeting, all the fundamentals of the society that prevailed during the green days of Sahara.

 

[mkrnhr]

The listed symptoms listed by this article refer to the monotheistic religions teachings! The origin of these religions are arid or semiarid regions (Egypt and Arabia) during hard times. Judaism during the "plagues". Christianism during the early dark ages, and Islam during the late dark ages (in Koran there's a meaningful passage talking about a shower of stones decimating an army around 560AD). This article adds more information on how people are conditioned into violence with the aid of environment. Priceless I should say!

 

[Laura]

Seems that during hard times two kinds of people survive: those who help each other out of human feeling, and groups where a psychopath takes over and uses the situation to terrify the rest and turn them into slaves. We are in such a time at present.

 

[sankara]

I have seen the pictures sent by ERNA and I felt like giving a different point of view.

First of all I think that we should have a look at the recent 'Congolese' history, let's say since the numerous people of the so-called Congo's encounter with the Belgian. Millions of them were slaughtered, put in slavery in the worst colonial episode of that time. The Leopold policy must have been quite a trauma for these people. How long has that rule been severly applied before the so-called independance? How long has this very trauma lasted?
I don't want to go to deep into the recent history with the US supported psychopath, Mobutu.(if you don't have datas about the Belgian colonial rule, I suggest you get some)

So the fact is that if the children of this neighborood are so violently fighting, it's for the sake of fortunes made on diamonds, timbers, coltan, oil...They are trained and financed by the master psychopaths and fueled by arm dealers (hollywood takes care of their imagination; raping it like said Aminata Traoré in her book "Le viol de l'imaginaire".

I spent some time trying to understand the Liberian and Sierra Leonese "civil wars", and it was amazing to see that the young warriors were not refering to traditional heros but to Stalone, kung fu actors and all the psychopatic movies (the most stupid and violent ones are the only sent in Africa, even in the most remote areas). Same with The other Congo's civil war, the milicias were names after kung fu movies, Ninja, Cobra...I have friends who have survived these events. TOTAL was the financier of the slaughter.

So if the people in the Great Lake Area (and sadly enough almost everywhere else) have became insane, it might have nothing to do with traditional ritual initiation practices. This is what this documents deal with. Che Guevara was upset with these practices which unabled the Lumumba supporters to fight effectively against the US trained army. At that time, there was no rape policy, it's not traditional...

So what are we to talk about? Circumcision? That is interesting indeed that this is so widely practice on this continent. Douglas Reed often compares 'juda-ites' practices with the African tribal ones. In that case it is hard to link these people with the actual monotheism and 'Yahweism' and none of them have anything to do with it except the fact that they pay a terrific price for the strengh of the USA, Israeli, Frenche, Belgian interests in Africa...


I have had the opportunity to spend long period in Western Africa and in the bush. I have many friends there, almost relatives. So when I look at these picture it is not with some kind of bias that one would normaly experience when he has no knowledge of a people. And what I see are healthy children, they don't look scared or sad or experimenting a torture (unless on picture 4 where the boys seem to display some pain.) But It doesn't seem to me that it is worst than what we would see afer a child has fallen from a bike.

These ceremonys trace back in ancient times, before "Leopold" decided he was their owner.
At that time, these people were living in the wilderness. The village was the center of the Human life, his only place of safety. The African wilderness is plentiful and often dangerous. Wild mammals can kill or injure you, so do insects, bacterias. Many plants are spiky, venenous (poison Ivy like) and scratching, pleas are very common, at least. At that moment, I think we should ponder that we have never experience living in such a marvelous and dangerous world. None of us would have lived there without the knowledge these people had of the forest, the animals, about the mastering of oneself in difficult encountering, the medicinal plants, and the local 'jinns'. If we don't ponder we will remain at the surface of our intellectual knowledge; life in the bush is real and involve all our centers.

So the children received an initiation to become truly adult in that context. The document says that the children are send in the forest. In Africa, the sacred forest were indeed very important. The forest , profane or sacred is, (for the forest's people of course) the place where they have to find their living. The world is violent in these conditions and one has to be strong to live long and be efficient to save his own life and of his fellow villagers.
So I don't see that the pain element is inaccurate in strenghning the will and endurance of a forest dweller. Juste like being able to remain silent is practicaly efficient for hearing the world around when you hunt (or to know if you are not the one to be hunted). Once a friend in Burkina told me sadly that his father was still able to understand the bird's language, but that he had lost that ability. For all encounters with animals were not seen like a threat and they were people able to communicate with them) And we could also talk about the friendly or non-friendly relations with the other humans.

So we are obviously dealing with initiations for the hard life of being human among the wilderness (physical and spiritual), for children to become responsible fellows and parents for their beloved. They would know the forest and it's numerous traps or the Bush, to save their life and feed their relatives to stay with them as long as possible. Because they loved them, in their way.

I only talked about the Congolese but I guess it's the same in all environments, with most of the people.
I have experienced many accidents, malaria, diarheas and I found myself stronger and and healthier (thaugh older) after these.Both psychologicaly and physicaly.

This people have never built pyramids, they have never express any imperialistic behaviors...
They lived in the wilderness, expressing art and communicating with the natural elements and what I would call 'jinns'

 

[Erna]

[quote author=sankara]
I don't want to go to deep into the recent history with the US supported psychopath, Mobutu.(if you don't have datas about the Belgian colonial rule, I suggest you get some)[/quote]

Hope we're not going too much off topic. My knowledge of that region's history is poor, although I think after reading that article about the women in the Bukavu region, it's natural for anyone to try and understand it. While reading the article Laura posted, the Congo article was the only thing on my mind. It maid sense to me (at least the most plausible for me thus far). That region is clearly a breeding ground for monsters. A child in that environment has no initial scars or memory of what has transpired before, and I have no degree in psychology (although sometimes I think life is a phd in psychology), so maybe the awful history is not the only contributing factor.

[quote author=sankara]So the fact is that if the children of this neighborood are so violently fighting, it's for the sake of fortunes made on diamonds, timbers, coltan, oil...They are trained and financed by the master psychopaths and fueled by arm dealers (hollywood takes care of their imagination; raping it like said Aminata Traoré in her book "Le viol de l'imaginaire".[/quote]

Fortunes made (greed) and survival is one thing. That is however not what we are discussing. We are discussing what causes someone to be able to empty his cartridge into a helpless woman's vagina. We are discussing what can be responsible for the majority of a regions men to become pathological.

[quote author=sankara]I spent some time trying to understand the Liberian and Sierra Leonese "civil wars", and it was amazing to see that the young warriors were not refering to traditional heros but to Stalone, kung fu actors and all the psychopatic movies (the most stupid and violent ones are the only sent in Africa, even in the most remote areas). Same with The other Congo's civil war, the milicias were names after kung fu movies, Ninja, Cobra...I have friends who have survived these events. TOTAL was the financier of the slaughter.[/quote]

The fact that there is a Western hand in these conflicts is irrelevant for the discussion at hand. Violence is violence and we are discussing it’s effect on a human being’s psychological state. I also watch violent Hollywood movies, and I haven’t killed someone yet. So we have eliminated violent Hollywood movies as the major contributing factor…yes?

[quote author=sankara]So if the people in the Great Lake Area (and sadly enough almost everywhere else) have became insane, it might have nothing to do with traditional ritual initiation practices. This is what this documents deal with. Che Guevara was upset with these practices which unabled the Lumumba supporters to fight effectively against the US trained army. At that time, there was no rape policy, it's not traditional...[/quote]

I used East Congo and what’s happening there as an example of DeMeo’s clinical and cross-cultural observations on the biological needs of infants, children, and adolescents, the repressive and damaging effects that certain social institutions and classes of harsh natural environment have upon those needs, and the behavioural consequences of such repression and damage.

[quote author=sankara]So what are we to talk about? Circumcision? That is interesting indeed that this is so widely practice on this continent. Douglas Reed often compares 'juda-ites' practices with the African tribal ones. In that case it is hard to link these people with the actual monotheism and 'Yahweism' and none of them have anything to do with it except the fact that they pay a terrific price for the strengh of the USA, Israeli, Frenche, Belgian interests in Africa...[/quote]

I have also never thought of African circumcisions as having any link to monotheistic religions, and I don't know where it originates from. Africans certainly are not monotheists. I disagree with you though that circumcisions at such an advanced age leaves no scars. But the circumcisions are only one piece of the puzzle for me, together with all the other pieces I've pointed to.

[quote author=sankara]I have had the opportunity to spend long period in Western Africa and in the bush. [/quote]

I envy you for that.

[quote author=sankara]So when I look at these picture it is not with some kind of bias that one would normaly experience when he has no knowledge of a people.[/quote]

I’m don’t have much knowledge of that regions people, but I think for the discussion at hand, it’s irrelevant. We’re discussing the effect of early trauma on a “human being”.

[quote author=sankara]And what I see are healthy children, they don't look scared or sad or experimenting a torture (unless on picture 4 where the boys seem to display some pain.) But It doesn't seem to me that it is worst than what we would see afer a child has fallen from a bike.[/quote]

Of course they look healthy and happy, young boys usually do. I was referring to what happens in their brains and to their beings, to produce the end product, the adult male (or female in the Masai's case). Again, I have no degree in psychology, but to me, comparing a scraped knee from falling off a bike to a circumcision is a very bad comparison. The one has psychological ramifications (it is being done to you) and the other none. Maybe if it's done to a baby, it's not as damaging as when it's done to a young child.

[quote author=sankara]These ceremonys trace back in ancient times, before "Leopold" decided he was their owner.[/quote]

Was violence introduced to the region by the arrival of Leopold?

[quote author=sankara]At that time, these people were living in the wilderness. The village was the center of the Human life, his only place of safety. The African wilderness is plentiful and often dangerous. Wild mammals can kill or injure you, so do insects, bacterias. Many plants are spiky, venenous (poison Ivy like) and scratching, pleas are very common, at least. At that moment, I think we should ponder that we  have never experience living in such a marvelous and dangerous world. None of us would have lived there without the knowledge these people  had of the forest, the animals, about the mastering of oneself in difficult encountering, the medicinal plants, and the local 'jinns'. If we don't ponder we will remain at the surface of our intellectual knowledge; life in the bush is real and involve all our centers.[/quote]

I can see you have a passion for Africa. We have that in common then.

[quote author=sankara]So the children received an initiation to become truly adult in that context. The document says that the children are send in the forest. In Africa, the sacred forest were indeed  very important. The forest , profane or sacred is, (for the forest's people of course) the place where they have to find their living. The world is violent in these conditions and one has to be strong to live long and be efficient to save his own life and of his fellow villagers.[/quote]

You are wandering off topic. It would appear as though the sacred forest in that region have lost a little of it’s…”sacredness”.. wouldn’t you say?  You can teach a child how to survive in the wild without the application of pain. Pain does not breed bravery. You can beat a coward until he’s blue in the face, he’ll still be a coward.  Knowledge is what enables you to survive in the wild. Which plants are poisonous, which one's are edible, which frogs are poisonous, what sound birds make to warn baboons there’s a predator approaching ..etc.

[quote author=sankara]So I don't see that the pain element is inaccurate in strenghning the will and endurance of a forest dweller. Juste like being able to remain silent is practicaly efficient for hearing the world around when you hunt (or to know if you are not the one to be hunted). Once a friend in Burkina told me sadly that his father was still able to understand the bird's language, but that he had lost that ability. For all encounters with animals were not seen like a threat and they were people able to communicate with them) And we could also talk about the friendly or non-friendly relations with the other humans.

So we are obviously dealing with initiations for the hard life of being human among the wilderness (physical and spiritual), for children to become responsible fellows and parents for their beloved. [/quote]

Well clearly this isn't the case today (at least in this region).

[quote author=sankara]I only talked about the Congolese but I guess it's the same in all environments, with most of the people.
I have experienced many accidents, malaria, diarheas and I found myself stronger and and healthier (thaugh older) after these.Both psychologicaly and physicaly.[/quote]

Your travels sound like quite an adventure. I might be venturing in that direction myself soon, since I'm considering exporting Western African art and sculpture to the EU. Those Congolese ritual masks still scare me though (especially the circumcision one).

Circumcision has been discussed on the forum on an earlier occasion, you can do a search if you want.

 

[Pierre]

Maybe if it's done to a baby, it's not as damaging as when it's done to a young child.

Pain inflicted to babies is also very damaging psychologically because of imprinting periods.

Here's an excerpt of 9/11, The Ultimate Truth that illustrates this point :

Experiments were conducted with ducks which demonstrated that there is a critical age in hours at which a duckling is most responsive to “obtaining and labeling” a mother. Similar studies were done with monkeys. These studies demonstrated that if a monkey has not received motherly stimulation before he is a certain number of weeks old, he will grow up to be cold, aloof, and unfriendly to his own off-spring. The curious thing about the monkey experiments was that the sense of touch was more important than the feeding. A fuzzy surrogate with no milk was preferred over a wire surrogate with milk. This demonstrates a high level need for touching and caressing. It also suggests the “mode” of this “mother imprint”—it is sensory. Kinesthetic. It relates to pleasurable feelings of the body—how one is “touched”.

...

The first stage, or circuit, is the oral-passive-receptive, and is imprinted by what is perceived to be the mother or first mothering object. It can be conditioned by nourishment or threat, and is mostly concerned with bodily security. Trauma during this phase can cause an unconsciously motivated mechanical retreat from anything threatening to physical safety.

...

What better way to ensure a deep, subconscious, distrust of women—not to mention an overwhelming terror at the very mention of the pain and suffering that might ensue from breaking the monotheistic covenant—the cruel and punishing “mother” image established at the time of Imprint Vulnerability—than whacking a guy’s pee-pee when he is interested only in being warm, cozy, and filling his tummy with warm, sweet milk?!

Whoa! Talk about your basic abyssal cunning there!

The first “circuit” is concerned with what is safe and what is not safe. In our society, money is one of the primary items that is intimately tied to survival and biological security. Money represents survival. In addition to that, people who have been traumatized during the imprinting phase of the first circuit tend to view other people in an abstract way. It is “us and them”. They also tend to be very easily threatened by disapproval of any sort because disapproval suggests the idea of extinction or loss of food supply. And, finally, those who have been negatively imprinted at this stage tend to have a chronic muscular armoring that prevents proper, relaxed breathing; they are “up tight”.

One of the main characteristics of people who are heavily controlled by this circuit, or are “stuck” in this “oral phase”, is that when they sense danger of any sort, whether actual or conceptual, all mental activity comes to a halt. Such people are chronically anxious and dependent—mostly on religion. They are not able to really understand what other people are feeling or what can happen in the future in regard to relationships, given a certain present situation. They only understand what is happening “now”, and they can only feel what they feel. They cannot accurately grasp what others feel because they relate to others only as sensory objects.

 

[Bholanath]

Well, I want to express my thanks to sankara for the intelligent, insightful, knowledgeable and culturally sensitive post regarding the realities of Congo and neighboring countries. I have not been to the African continent, but what you are describing has similarities to other former European colonies, specifically to India where I have spent extended time with traditional and tribal people whom I consider my "family". Also, having read the book King Leopold's Ghost, and have followed subsequent developments in recent history of Congo, having been deeply moved by the extent of psychopathic brutalization of the people, and insight into ponerology gleaned from understanding the continued western corporate rape of the country (and much of the rest of the continent).
I know this whole thread has gone somewhat off-topic now, since it was regarding environmental origins of violence. What was brought up was the unprecedented sickeningly perverted phenomenon of the new level of sexual violence toward women. I think sankara made clear points about possibilities of other factors in the creation of this violence, other than the supposed "circumcision/initiation rituals". Really, the reference hit me in the gut (because of ignorance and sheltered world-view), but I was hesitant to give it any energy. But then I was also saddened by many of Erna's responses which smack of elitist patronizing western intellectualism, IMO.

I don't know if it was mentioned, but nowadays these young soldiers/mercenaries/gangs are heavily hopped up on all manner of toxic pharmaceuticals (cocaine, and many things much worse!). That's an important element, and "they" have come up with a lot of killer-enhancers in recent years.
But, regarding the history of Congo, as well as India, we westerners have very little idea of the horror of the extent of the torturous treatment of natives by the Belgians, British, and all the other European colonial "masters" (Including Amerikans and Australians). The kind of s**t and the level of the s**t that was done was monstrous beyond normal human imagination, and it's gonna stay deeply buried in the collective and individual souls, and passed through to many generations. How can we possibly say that the trauma would not be felt immediately on a soul level by a child born into that "breeding ground for monsters". They were, simply put, driven mad. On a mass scale. It is seemingly a key part in the 4d STS agenda. Self-perpetuating violence, and especially degradation of womankind.

Hollywood has also "taken care of their imaginations" in India too. As in Africa (and probably everywhere), only the stupidest and most violent western movies are screened in India, including the remote parts. What most don't understand is that this is the "literal reality" of the western world to most of the people in these places. They just assume that what they see is the overriding state of affairs outside in the outer/western/"advanced" world. So, as sankara said, characters like Stallone/Arnie become "heroes". Most people have no idea how the worst of Hollywood is exported around the world, and that that shapes perception on a global scale.

The fact that there is a Western hand in these conflicts is irrelevant for the discussion at hand. Violence is violence and we are discussing it’s effect on a human being’s psychological state. I also watch violent Hollywood movies, and I haven’t killed someone yet. So we have eliminated violent Hollywood movies as the major contributing factor…yes?

I don't think the "Western hand" is irrelevant. "We" watch Hollywood movies from a perspective of growing up/living in a western society where we understand what Hollywood is, how and why movies are made, and are viewing from a much wider perspective. But, then, we're also probably not talking about "the major contributing factor", but something relevant, though, that is added to the other reasons for "what can be responsible for the majority of a regions men to become pathological". Jeez, "our" govt/military creates conscienceless killers by the thousands with very tried and true methods like inducing dissociation, and its almost a 'science'.

I’m don’t have much knowledge of that regions people, but I think for the discussion at hand, it’s irrelevant. We’re discussing the effect of early trauma on a “human being”.

It's not irrelevant. As shankara said, "And what I see are healthy children, they don't look scared or sad or experimenting a torture...". I think he has some experiential understanding of the context and what the initiations entail, and the psychological preparations involved, and furthermore a sense of how completely different an environment and world-view/life-ways the people in traditional indigenous societies live.

Was violence introduced to the region by the arrival of Leopold?

Gun violence was. Chopping-off of feet, hands, arms, breasts, killing kids, you-name-it....definitely was. Recommend doing a bit of historical research.

These ceremonies trace back in ancient times, before "Leopold" decided he was their owner.

These ceremonies trace back in ancient times. That's the relevant point.

At that moment, I think we should ponder that we have never experience living in such a marvelous and dangerous world. None of us would have lived there without the knowledge these people had of the forest, the animals, about the mastering of oneself in difficult encountering, the medicinal plants, and the local 'jinns'. If we don't ponder we will remain at the surface of our intellectual knowledge; life in the bush is real and involve all our centers.

I can see you have a passion for Africa.

Again this ignores the relevant point being made here by sankara.

The world is violent in these conditions and one has to be strong to live long and be efficient to save his own life and of his fellow villagers.

You are wandering off topic. It would appear as though the sacred forest in that region have lost a little of it’s…”sacredness”.. wouldn’t you say? You can teach a child how to survive in the wild without the application of pain. Pain does not breed bravery.

It seems that it was intimated that these (men's) initiation rituals were a factor in present-day male violence toward women. sankara is responding to this "topic", which Erna introduced.

So we are obviously dealing with initiations for the hard life of being human among the wilderness (physical and spiritual), for children to become responsible fellows and parents for their beloved.

Well clearly this isn't the case today (at least in this region).

I think we should all know and be aware of the kind of s**t that our "brave troops" (former children) are REALLY doing in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere, before we single out one particular "region" as being a "breeding ground for monsters". What do you think the victims there think about how "we raise our children"?
__________________________________________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" T.S. Eliot

 

[sankara]

I would like first to apologize, I am not confident with the computer so I don't always understand how to quote etc...I hope I will handle it. I am not used to go on forums. I chosed to go on this one because of the deep respect I have for the work accomplished by the SOTT team and the requested rigor in the dialogue. I am not deceived by the answers I found to the text I sent. Bolanath got the point to what I was trying to express in his/her post, we share the same "overstanding".

Fortunes made (greed) and survival is one thing. That is however not what we are discussing. We are discussing what causes someone to be able to empty his cartridge into a helpless woman's vagina. We are discussing what can be responsible for the majority of a regions men to become pathological.

Well Erna I think that the main reasons the local men act so savagely , as underlined by Bolanath are these decades of western horrific domination on the area. Like you, I have been moved by this woman/womb desacralisation and I came up with many reflexions: These Children/men were born from this very vagina, they entered in a world of hatred, violence, psychopathy...a nightmare,"A world inside the devil". Most of them have never experiment a non-pathological relationship and as Bolanath underlined, this had been going on for generations. No wonder maybe that they just feel no respect (to say the least) toward the "gate" which braught them in that hellish world and that this very womb can hardly be seen as sacred in the state of psychological suffering they are experimenting as self-hating humans.
Erna, you really should try to study this Congolese history, Congo is a recent nomination for this area. Like a young Cameroonese used to say; "I should not be called 'Camerounaise' because cameroun refere to little shrimp and that is the name the caucasians gave to that place, and I am not a little Shrimp"
Source "Banlieu anti-système"

I also watch violent Hollywood movies, and I haven’t killed someone yet. So we have eliminated violent Hollywood movies as the major contributing factor…yes?

Bolanath wrote pertinent lignes to answer but still I need to add that, like me, you have not ONLY been fed with psychopathic stuff, so you can always mentaly switch and refere to non psychopatic books, poems, movies, tales etc...that you have encountered. You have been given an education, you can use your free will. So I am sure Hollywood plays a major role in the African wars and horrors.

I have also never thought of African circumcisions as having any link to monotheistic religions, and I don't know where it originates from. Africans certainly are not monotheists. I disagree with you though that circumcisions at such an advanced age leaves no scars. But the circumcisions are only one piece of the puzzle for me, together with all the other pieces I've pointed to.

I have experienced a circumcision when I was six, in a hospital. For sure it took me a week before I stoped feeling pain while pissing. But it has not been a major trauma, not more than the other numerous pains I experienced in my life. I haven't felt the suffering of the operation because I had been given an aenestesie (sorry for the mispelling, I have no dictionary around me). But this chemical drug was not a good thing either for my body, I am not sure feeling the pain would have been less traumatic. Furthermore when the children are circumcise the familly, the whole group support them psychologicaly, give sense to that act. In a village I have been living in(animist/muslim) I could clearly see that as soon as they could after the operation, the children went back to play and had fun as much as they could. They were given present and much respect by everyone around. For my part, this operation had been performed for medical reasons.
Most of the African people had a One god at the apex of their cosmogony...But this had nothing to do with the monotheism we know.

So when I look at these pictures it is not with some kind of bias that one would normaly experience when he has no knowledge of a people.

Erna, once again Bolanath made the most proper answer to this assertion and I didn't want to make you feel bad about this potential 'bias' we can all have especialy in front of pictures. So this was relevant, I affirm this children are not being tortured and they look like living an important stage of their life. When we grow and discover this world we often experiment it painfuly, thus learning and being initiated to it. If the mother says:"beware the fire", you will only understand it when you feel it; When you are told to be cautious over climbing trees or caressing spiky animals, you will painfully understand why when you do your own experience. You may also become a good tree climber once you know which branch not to rely to...and not a coward afraid to ever try again...
Understanding suffering by knowing it, you might not exert it easily on others.
I remember once in the courtyard of a friend in Togo. his child, Freeman, around five at that time, had fallen on the ground and was crying. In Europe the most common answer would have been to reassure him, hold him ans so on. My friend just told him abruptly:"Freeman get up"
Freeman did it , he is now a very healthy teenager. Maybe Erna you can get what I want to express.
"The oyster that is never hurt can not give pearls"
Chinese proverb

Was violence introduced to the region by the arrival of Leopold?

Bolanath's remark is highly pertinent. I wish at least to say that violence is inherent to this very world we are living in when it is still natural. In the bush, everyone, boys and girls will suffer from pains inflicted by the environment, they need to get used to it, for that it be no trauma. When they are grown up, they can tell their children not to worry and give them the proper therapy and advices. And so the children will be reassured in this environment where you are Lion's fodder. If a child knows about how to handle pain, then he can go hunting/harvesting without being scared and aknowledging he can be injured while remaining psychologicaly stable. Pain is a human experiment that needs to be overcome. If we were not that scared of 'pain' maybe we would already fight back in the west in this time of repression and because my point is balanced, I would say that because of this very same possible pain, most of the police officers would not see it as pertinent to be suffering for the elite. I think that at this point, we should ponder the above quote:
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every police operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive?

If during periods of mass arrests people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever was at hand? The organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and, not withstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt."
But in the west, the children are overprotected to the point that it takes to wear a helmet when you ride a bike and son on...So we may have became to sensitive.

Once Henry Corbin wrote:"Love can't stand impotency"
If you wanted to know more about the masks, I could introduce you to some africans friends of mine who are initiated to their mysterys in Burkina Faso. But there is few things to be understood using only intellect.

It seems to me that it is obvious that the Universe is violent in many manifestations, but without displaying hatred or perversity like human-psychopaths inflicted violence.
The answer we give to the 'universal' violence is clearly crucial in defining humanity and civilisation. If the answer is somthing like: "the universe is violent so I am going to be the strongest and therefore the representant of the universe on hearth", then it might seriously be highly pathological.
Respect



Moderator: I added the quotation marks. Here the link if you want to learn how to do it.

 

[Laura]

It might be useful to read Hannah Arendt's "The Origins of Totalitarianism" where she devotes a section to the Imperialism of the 18th and 19th centuries especially in regards to Africa, the Boers, later the British, etc. It is pretty clear to me that what happened was an "exporting" of European psychopaths to Africa and, as we know from reading Lobaczewski, that can seriously twist and ponerize a society (or many, in the case of Africa).

In other words, when we see the horrible violence going on there, we should stop and consider the source or the "infecting agent" and see it in the same way we see what psychopaths in charge did in Germany in an ostensibly civilized society. If civilized Europeans could be induced to behave the way they did during two World Wars, as we know they did, it is not hard to understand how and why Tribal nations could be similarly (or worse) ponerized.

Finally, let me just add that circumcision that is needed for medical reasons is rare. Any other instance of such brutality to a child for any cultural reason or otherwise is inexcusable. Yes, life is hard, but you don't teach children about snakes by putting them into a snakepit without the proper equipment and I'm sorry, behaving like a snake towards the child is not really teaching them about snakes.

 

[sankara]

Laura
In Africa, there is more than circumcision, there are many scarifications, on the body, but also on the face. It happens that some friends of mine have been facialy scarified while in youth. As adult, they KNOW the reason they got so, and they are people with real Knowledge and truly seeking the truths of this world with an open mind. They don't profess that mankind should be scarified and they are able to accept new point of view regarding their culture. The fact is that most of their knowledge is not intellectual but dealing with other dimensions of existence.

I don't mean to say scarifications or other things that shocked me at first are good or bad, I am trying to get some insight through objectivity.

The only subject where I think I have to stand against when in Africa, is excision.

Nobody in this thread has talked about "putting children into a snakepit without the proper equipment". If you refer to a specific exemple it's interesting and terrible but it wouldn't refer to all the practices among the numerous people and so wouldn't lead us to draw conclusion. If it is a metaphor, sorry but it is not relevant because if the children hadn't been given the proper equipment (physical and psychic when dealing with "other manifestation of the universe")they would not have survived and express themselves through arts with such power.

I don't think that it can be said that the Africans behaved like snakes toward their (so often beloved) children, unless for the local '5 percent'.

If I remember well, Gurdjiev when talking about his education refers to be put in cold water... It's a fact that we don't learn qbout life and justice Only with caresses.

It struck me that in Africa (and certainly elsewhere, almost everywhere before the total dominance of the Judeo-christian pathocracy), the 'child' we know in western doesn't exist. I mean this lonely child living in a small environment, with few people, spending long times in his own bedroom ever since he his in his young age.

The people live together and the children are always in bands when not busy by home charges. Joyful bands of "bandits" like many adults would call them is not a sad vision. The children stay together until late at night, singing, learning new dances. The fact is that you can deal with a crowd of "bandits" like with a single western child.
Let's imagine that you as an adult have a specific work to do and that you suddenly find yourself surrounded by a crowd of 'laughing dwarves"decupling the curiosity impulse by the number. In africa, the only efficient method to deal with it is a good stick(not the one which will inflict to much pain but efficients as the moves of a mother cat toward her kittens). If one of them children starts crying, be sure he'll be the first back for the second wave of 'curiosity/challenge natural impulse'.
Trough years I see them growing old, they are respectfull, confident and the only sadness I have is to see them getting spoiled by the porn and the video insanity.
The youngest spend much less time giving us as backgroung for the "veillés" these joyfull songs. World Education, World Vision, US Aid have taken over the area...
So now I don't judge, if I dislike a practice I just don't do it or get involve in it. If my attitude is better, closer to objectif moral, the natural common sens of the kids, of the women and men will judge by themselves.
Respect

 

[sankara]

I remember, once a friend of french/touareg DNA but raised in Africa as a local told me that:"In Africa we have to be taugher than you because here you can die at any time, much easier than in the West and so we saw that if that happened, the pain inflicted on the child by the loss of the parent would be less if there is not to much tender."
I must add that the guy is a very careful father and I saw him acting motherly, giving the breast to his baby girl while his wife had tuberculosis).

 

[Erna]

[quote author=Bholanath]
   
What was brought up was the unprecedented sickeningly perverted phenomenon of the new level of sexual violence toward women.[/quote]

I could just as well have used any ponerized society on the face of the planet, from the American slaughter in Iraq & Afghanistan to the West Bank and Gaza strip. The gist of my post seems to be lost on you. Any kind of atrocities carried out towards any human being (male & female) could have been used to bring up my point. I just chose to use the Eastern Congo due to the large percentage of the people in that region carrying out violent crimes against one another and since it appears as though the majority of the people in that region have something in common it’s worthy to investigate if that something they have in common might have influenced their current behaviour. Would you go to Antarctica or the Sahara dessert to study ice?

[quote author=Bholanath]I think sankara made clear points about possibilities of other factors in the creation of this violence, other than the supposed "circumcision/initiation rituals".[/quote]

I am well aware of the point Sankara was trying to get across, I was merely considering all possible influences and while my post is clearly lost on you, let me clearly point out to you what I consider to be possible contributing factors of the current climate of violence in that region from the initial article posted in this thread – Origins of Violence: Climate Change in the Sahara 7,000 Years Ago

I quote from the article:

His research drew on anthropology, archaeology, climatology, ecology, and psychology to record the shift from an "unarmored" matrist society to an "armored" patrist society. The extremely dry desert belt which stretches across North Africa, through the Near East into Central Asia, which he calls  "Saharasia", had cultural evidence of the greatest extreme of repressive, painful, traumatic, and violent behaviors that he identified as armored, patrist social institutions. Such societies are characterized by the disruption of maternal-infant bonds as well as male-female bonds. At that time, the farther away from the Saharasia zone, the more the evidence showed behaviors that were more gentle, peaceful, harmonizing, mutually nurturing, not armored against the bonds that humanize people. Such societies are described as matrist because they support and protect maternal-infant and male-female bonds.

Famines changed the physiology of people through a change in their anatomy. Infants born into a struggle for survival failed to develop normally. With the onset of starvation the anatomy of the brain began to change resulting in changed function of the brain. The result most probably effected a change in personality.

while patrism, perpetuated by trauma-inducing social institutions

his seven-year geographical study on the worldwide, regional variation in human behavior, and related socio-environmental factors

In this research, DeMeo specifically focused upon a major complex of traumatic and repressive attitudes, behaviors, social customs and institutions which are correlated with violence and warfare. His study proceeded from clinical and cross-cultural observations on the biological needs of infants, children, and adolescents, the repressive and damaging effects that certain social institutions and classes of harsh natural environment have upon those needs, and the behavioral consequences of such repression and damage.

Computer technology allowed easy handling of this data to permit
systematic global geographical reviews of human behavior and social institutions. In doing so, Dr. DeMeo uncovered a previously unobserved, but clear-cut global pattern in human behavior.

In comparing matrist and patrist culture it could be seen that the origin of violence was to be found in childhood trauma and sexual-repression. His research was initially aimed at developing a global geographical analysis of social factors related to early childhood trauma and sexual repression

…….labeled the destructive aggression and sadistic violence of Homo sapiens a completely abnormal condition…………..These rituals and institutions exist among both subsistence-level "primitives" and technologically developed "civilized" societies.

Some examples of patrist rituals and institutions are: unconscious or rationalized infliction of pain upon newborn infants and children through various means; separation and isolation of the infant from its mother; indifference towards the crying, upset infant; immobilizing (my words: here in SA black mothers tie their kids to their backs for the first couple of years of it’s life, thus, no crawling around, investigating, developing a spacial IQ, acting on curiosity etc. etc), round-the-clock
swaddling (check my previous point); denial of the breast to, and premature weaning of the infant; cutting of the child's
flesh, usually the genitals; traumatic toilet training; and demands to be quiet, uncurious (check my previous remarks in brackets), and
obedient, enforced by physical punishment or threats.

Most of these ritual punishments and restraints fall more painfully upon the female, though males are also greatly affected. Demands for pain endurance, emotion-suppression, and uncritical obedience to elder (usually male) authority figures regarding basic life decisions are integral aspects of such social institutions, which extend to control adult behavior as well. These repressive institutions are supported and defended by the average individual within a given society, irrespective of their painful, pleasure-reducing, or life-threatening consequences, and are uncritically viewed as being "good", "character building" experiences, a part of "tradition". Nevertheless, from such a complex of painful and repressive social institutions comes the neurotic, psychotic, self-destructive, and sadistic components of human behavior.

Societies which traumatize their infants and children………., always exhibit an array of neurotic, self-destructive, and violent behaviors. In contrast, societies which treat infants and children with much physical affection and
gentle nurturance………., are by contrast psychically healthy and nonviolent. In fact, cross-cultural research has shown the difficulty, even the impossibility, of finding any disturbed, violent society which does not also traumatize its young and/or sexually repress them.

The great hope of mankind is that there existed "an ancient, worldwide period of relatively peaceful social conditions, where warfare, male domination, and destructive aggression were either absent, or at extremely minimal levels.

[quote author=Bholanath]
Really, the reference hit me in the gut (because of ignorance and sheltered world-view), but I was hesitant to give it any energy.[/quote]

I find it amusing that you would refer to the results of scientific research as “ignorant and of a sheltered worldview”.

[quote author=Bholanath]But then I was also saddened by many of Erna's responses which smack of elitist patronizing western intellectualism, IMO. [/quote]

And I find this “observation” (or lack thereof) of yours equally amusing, if nothing else.

[quote author=Bholanath]I don't know if it was mentioned, but nowadays these young soldiers/mercenaries/gangs are heavily hopped up on all manner of toxic pharmaceuticals (cocaine, and many things much worse!). [/quote]

Cocaine (and whatever else you refer to that’s “much worse”) – please be specific if you don’t mind – does not make you violent.

[quote author=Bholanath]That's an important element, and "they" have come up with a lot of killer-enhancers in recent years. [/quote]

I can imagine that narcotics and pharmaceutical products are widely available in that region, yet it would help if you could provide proof for your statements. General statements like yours does not help with making progress in this thread. What “killer-enhancers” do you speak of?

[quote author=Bholanath]But, regarding the history of Congo, as well as India, we westerners[/quote]

Speak for yourself.

[quote author=Bholanath]have very little idea of the horror of the extent of the torturous treatment of natives by the Belgians, British, and all the other European colonial "masters" (Including Amerikans and Australians). [/quote]

I have actually done extensive reading on the extent of the horror and tortuous treatment of African natives by European colonialists (excluding the Congo).

[quote author=Bholanath]The kind of s**t and the level of the s**t that was done was monstrous beyond normal human imagination, and it's gonna stay deeply buried in the collective and individual souls, and passed through to many generations. [/quote]

According to my knowledge, a child is born without “the baggage” of his/her people’s and his/her region’s history, so no, this one doesn’t fly. Does amnesia ring a bell? Looking for complicated explanations when simpler ones exist?

[quote author=Bholanath]How can we possibly say that the trauma would not be felt immediately on a soul level by a child born into that "breeding ground for monsters".[/quote]
Check my previous remark.

[quote author=Bholanath]It is seemingly a key part in the 4d STS agenda [/quote]

As always.

[quote author=Bholanath]

The fact that there is a Western hand in these conflicts is irrelevant for the discussion at hand. Violence is violence and we are discussing it’s effect on a human being’s psychological state.

[/quote]

I reiterate: We are discussing the effect of violence in general on a human being’s psychological state, no matter who’s behind the proverbial curtain.

[quote author=Bholanath]Jeez, "our" govt/military creates conscienceless killers by the thousands with very tried and true methods like inducing dissociation, and its almost a 'science'. [/quote]

We know.….and that relates to the conversation at hand….how again?

[quote author=Bholanath]

I’m don’t have much knowledge of that regions people, but I think for the discussion at hand, it’s irrelevant. We’re discussing the effect of early trauma on a “human being”.

It's not irrelevant. [/quote]

I think I’ve expanded enough time and energy to bring my point across.

[quote author=Bholanath]

Was violence introduced to the region by the arrival of Leopold?

Gun violence was. Chopping-off of feet, hands, arms, breasts, killing kids, you-name-it....definitely was. Recommend doing a bit of historical research. [/quote]

Was violence introduced to the region by the arrival of Leopold? If you grasped the gist of my post, the point I was trying to make here also wouldn’t be lost on you.

[quote author=Bholanath]

These ceremonies trace back in ancient times, before "Leopold" decided he was their owner.

[/quote]

Precisely, so if we can establish whether violence was introduced to the region by Leopold, we might be getting warmer. Although, I think we have already established that, haven’t we….  - Origins of Violence: Climate Change in the Sahara 7,000 Years Ago.

[quote author=Bholanath] These ceremonies trace back in ancient times. That's the relevant point. [/quote]

Yes, isn’t it now. You are getting warmer….

[quote author=Bholanath]

If we don't ponder we will remain at the surface of our intellectual knowledge[/b

[/quote]

I couldn’t agree with you more.

[quote author=Bholanath]

I can see you have a passion for Africa.

Again this ignores the relevant point being made here by sankara. [/quote]

…..

[quote author=Bholanath]

You are wandering off topic. It would appear as though the sacred forest in that region have lost a little of it’s…”sacredness”.. wouldn’t you say?  You can teach a child how to survive in the wild without the application of pain. Pain does not breed bravery.

    It seems that it was intimated that these (men's) initiation rituals were a factor in present-day male violence toward women. [/quote]

Yes Bholanath, that was what I was getting at, the circumcisions, and of course the other things the article mentioned.

[quote author=Bholanath]I think we should all know and be aware of the kind of s**t that our "brave troops" (former children) are REALLY doing in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere, before we single out one particular "region" as being a "breeding ground for monsters". What do you think the victims there think about how "we raise our children"?[/quote]

Does the existence of evil in Iraq & Afghanistan render the discussion of evil in the Congo meaningless? This is not a “we are the worst” "no you are the worst” discussion. Your remark is irrelevant in this context.