Osho - A psychopathic cult leader

daco

Jedi
I want to ask you opinions about Osho,there is no topic about him until now.I read some books from him and what I found is that in this books are basicly "nothing" comparing to Gurdjieff work the strange thing is that Gurdjieff influenced Osho.

Beside one documentary which criticize Osho,I can,t find any text which criticize Osho.
Well there is question,is it possible that Osho was is some sense a "fraud",that he manipulated people around him,that all he was saying is from books he read and not from direct contact from esoteric centre,he didnt have contact with other group of people,I remember that Gurdjieff said that man alone cant do nothing and here is the thing Osho was alone with no help from other people which I found very fishy.Beside that he didnt know that all of his followers was from new age movement,that knowledge is not for masses of people etc..
I just want to know more about him,I have strange feeling that he is not what he pretended to be.He have some good talks,but I dont know what to think about him in objective sense and a lot people with I communicate on other forum in my native language love Osho books and deeply respect them,they think that he is enlightened person.

But I always remeber this one "the devil is in the details".

Any clues about him?



Here is the documentary that criticize Osho and new-age movement
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6272335793596892362#

:huh:
 
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Vulcan59

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Hi daco,

If you use the Search function and search for Osho or Rajneesh, you will see quite a few entries. :)
 

daco

Jedi
Vulcan59 said:
Hi daco,

If you use the Search function and search for Osho or Rajneesh, you will see quite a few entries. :)
Yes I now,but there is no topic about him,if someone know something let post it here.The only thing is that in objective sense we dont know who realy was Osho.In one documentary they criticize him becouse of wealth,he was in prison in America,but we dont have yet some text to expose him as a person,what I see is that he just wasnt doing nothing to help other people,in this sense he was doing nothing.He merely put people to deeper sleep.
 

mkrnhr

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I didn't read Osho but watched some videos on youtube. The emphasis is not on knowledge, on working or consciousness. It is about let it all go, that everything is OK and the more we sleep the more we get awakened.
One ex new age person told me that Osho said that if a man hasn't a beard, he's not a man... now if this guy doesn't knows that in a lot of populations men do not have a beard because of genetics and probably environmental conditions, I wonder about his alleged wisdom and about how stupid this affirmation is!
 

vinny

The Living Force
mkrnhr said:
I didn't read Osho but watched some videos on youtube. The emphasis is not on knowledge, on working or consciousness. It is about let it all go, that everything is OK and the more we sleep the more we get awakened.
I'm not familiar with Osho specifically, but if what you say is the case then this is 'oh so familiar'. It is just this kind of nonsense that absolutely infests the arena of alternative 'personal development'. :(
 

mkrnhr

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Nomad said:
It is just this kind of nonsense that absolutely infests the arena of alternative 'personal development'.
And he's really "cliché". I mean, a bearded man in a long white robe talking slowly with an accent... And he starts by paradoxes like "love and hate are two sides of the same coin", or some very new agy stuff like "making love is a sacred experience", and other boring stuff. Search "osho" in youtube but I warn you it's very boring :D
 

darthdo

The Force is Strong With This One
I never liked anything from him. I could never finish any of his books, something about him that I had been rejected, although in Latin America is very famous and fashionable. It's like more of the same (new age).
 
G

Gertrudes

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I did read Osho at some point in my life, but then a couple of things began to not make much sense. I remember reading one of his books, which a sort of autobiography, where Osho describes his childhood. I'm sorry that I can't remember the name, I read it years ago and it was in my mother language.
Bu this particular book made me feel quite uncomfortable. Here you have a man describing how, as a child, he decided to steal something from a friend, and how he found a way to explain it and make it look OK. The idea that I got, and I can be wrong since it's been years and I no longer have this book, was that he basically proclaimed freedom at any expense. So this act of stealing something from his friend, was only part of his personal freedom...Call that freedom! I call it an extremely self-centered individual stealing something from someone he called "friend", for his own profit.

Also, I believe from the same book though I am not completely sure, we can read about the years coming towards the end of his life and the peculiar lifestyle he held. One example are the dozens of very expensive cars he owned for the sole purpose of enjoying himself. Wikipedia clarifies this number to a staggering 93 luxury cars! There is also the issue with the sexual exploitation. This post from Lúthien has some more information about it.
He did manage to give a few supposedly spiritual explanations for his eccentric acts which, in my perspective, are basically rationalizations.
 
P

prasimix

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Hm, interesting to see how some people are too easy in making judgment about someone based on few youtube video clips or hear-says and conclude that he is just another new age icon.

What I can say since I had a chance to read a few Osho's books during my journey that at least he is not just another guy that that was on mission to send you into deep dream. I'd like to say that for someone who is sleepy and suggestive that he could sound like a sweet lullaby putting you back into sleep, but for someone who is on the path of awakening he could be of assistance.

Many things around him is on the edge, and close to scandal, and you can label him as a deceiver, or maybe even worse a Cointelpro or similar type of agent, but in that case he was possibly one of the smartest and eloquent agent of all time. It looks to me as trying to make judgment about Laura works based on source like Vincent Bridges. His work and teaching is too broad and extensive that you can simply said that there is nothing valuable, and I cannot say that he is a just another messenger of "love and light" because you have to learn about his opinion and heavy criticism of PTB. He maybe didn't know a lot about "food chain", psychopaths, etc. but putting him in same basket as vast majority of new age "gurus" looks to me like a shallow statement.

A story about his 93 RRs, his sexual harassment/exploitation are mind blowing but if you try to conduct your research about such topics maybe you'll get some additional ideas, also why he was poisoned in US prison, had a problem on international airports in 20+ different countries, and many other thing that was not a part of living of many gurus of that time.
I took from Osho what I think that is valuable and continue on my journey, and personally I'd like to know what kind of answer we'll hear if Laura asks C's about that strange guy and his "mission".
 

Windmill knight

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prasimix said:
I'd like to say that for someone who is sleepy and suggestive that he could sound like a sweet lullaby putting you back into sleep, but for someone who is on the path of awakening he could be of assistance.
Hi prasimix. I am a bit confused about this statement. Could you clarify please?

prasimix said:
I took from Osho what I think that is valuable and continue on my journey, and personally I'd like to know what kind of answer we'll hear if Laura asks C's about that strange guy and his "mission".
For the benefit of us who are not very familiar with Osho, would you mind telling us a bit about his core teachings and what you think is valuable about them? Likewise, was there anything that you thought was not helpful at all - perhaps even counterproductive?
 

ScioAgapeOmnis

The Living Force
prasimix said:
I'd like to say that for someone who is sleepy and suggestive that he could sound like a sweet lullaby putting you back into sleep, but for someone who is on the path of awakening he could be of assistance.
Since you're familiar with the material, what does Osho teach?

prasimix said:
It looks to me as trying to make judgment about Laura works based on source like Vincent Bridges. His work and teaching is too broad and extensive that you can simply said that there is nothing valuable, and I cannot say that he is a just another messenger of "love and light" because you have to learn about his opinion and heavy criticism of PTB.
Keeping in mind that disinformation contains a mix of truth and lies, just having criticism of PTB doesn't make one a truth seeker - look at Alex Jones for example. Having "something valuable" does not make someone a sincere seeker since you can make that argument about all disinformation - if you simply weed out the lies that entrap you and discern the truth, like in the Bible for example.

prasimix said:
He maybe didn't know a lot about "food chain", psychopaths, etc. but putting him in same basket as vast majority of new age "gurus" looks to me like a shallow statement.
Well, what does he teach? What kind of life does he lead? What kind of person is he? What doe he do and what does he consider important in life?

prasimix said:
A story about his 93 RRs, his sexual harassment/exploitation are mind blowing but if you try to conduct your research about such topics maybe you'll get some additional ideas
Are you saying it is not true?

prasimix said:
I took from Osho what I think that is valuable and continue on my journey, and personally I'd like to know what kind of answer we'll hear if Laura asks C's about that strange guy and his "mission".
It sounds like you had to sift - does that mean that not everything he did or said was valuable, and if so, why not? Can you give examples of the not valuable things?
 

vinny

The Living Force
prasimix said:
Hm, interesting to see how some people are too easy in making judgment about someone based on few youtube video clips or hear-says and conclude that he is just another new age icon.

...

I took from Osho what I think that is valuable and continue on my journey, and personally I'd like to know what kind of answer we'll hear if Laura asks C's about that strange guy and his "mission".
The C's may say that we should look at the data already available to us. If you conclude that Osho has something valuable to add, then it would be appropriate to see it specifically, so that it can be looked at carefully, and compared against existing data. Then a better assessment can be made.

The trouble is that, unless he truly is an exceptional person, then the likelihood of problems is high, because it is a repeating pattern that happens over and over, as the General Law works with no holds barred to deflect and trap all but the most 'extraordinary' people into all different levels of subtle misdirection. Gurdjieff absolutely despaired of the difficulties he had with his various students and their various inabilities to see without distortion, so much so he eventually closed down his school. And the examples above, if true, don't even look that subtle - they are what might be classed as 'school-boy errors' for those who claim extraordinary knowledge. That may all be misrepresentation, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
 

mkrnhr

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prasimix said:
Hm, interesting to see how some people are too easy in making judgment about someone based on few youtube video clips or hear-says and conclude that he is just another new age icon.
Sorry for having hurt your feelings with that.

prasimix said:
I'd like to say that for someone who is sleepy and suggestive that he could sound like a sweet lullaby putting you back into sleep, but for someone who is on the path of awakening he could be of assistance.
Maybe you inverted the proposition here? IMHO for someone completely asleep it could help to awaken from black and white thinking. Then one could seek fro more seriousness, otherwise you'll contradict what you say here :

prasimix said:
I took from Osho what I think that is valuable and continue on my journey
which attitude one can only agree with.

prasimix said:
but in that case he was possibly one of the smartest and eloquent agent of all time.
Maybe and maybe not after all.

prasimix said:
It looks to me as trying to make judgment about Laura works based on source like Vincent Bridges.
Nobody took judgment from this guy's detractors as far as I see from this thread. So this affirmation is totally irrelevant.

prasimix said:
but putting him in same basket as vast majority of new age "gurus" looks to me like a shallow statement.
I confess that i should not judge people, he could be sincere and misunderstood.

So, what's the core of his philosophy (even if he says clearly that his path is not philosophy)?
 

Mrs. Peel

The Living Force
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prasimix said:
Hm, interesting to see how some people are too easy in making judgment about someone based on few youtube video clips or hear-says and conclude that he is just another new age icon.
Sounds like he's one of your sacred cows.
 
P

prasimix

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Windmill knight said:
prasimix said:
I'd like to say that for someone who is sleepy and suggestive that he could sound like a sweet lullaby putting you back into sleep, but for someone who is on the path of awakening he could be of assistance.
Hi prasimix. I am a bit confused about this statement. Could you clarify please?
Sorry for possibly unclear statement, a problem is that I'm thinking in Croatian and after translation in English it could result in something unclear or in best case something that is not in line with English language. I'll try to say that in a different way.
I think that many people just join some group or leader, master, teacher, whatever to feel that they are more important, or they think that they are ready for change (or already changed, awaked, enlighted), or just because in certain moment in time it is "cool" or "in" to be there, they just change one rutine or environment with another but still carring old habits, that type of people still looking for change from outside and not realize that only change that could make a difference is one that comes from within.
That people in the best case continue with their sleep, dreaming that they are awaken (as G. said), they can follow Osho or any other, listen for hours and days, be nice, be happy (or whatever "master" wants from them) but they'll continue to act without balls, they are impotent, they are full of fear to make any essential change. I referred to that kind of person as one to whom Osho cannot leave any trace, he (or any other who try to say something) is more or less sweet lullaby. From other side person who is on his way, if pass by Osho, will possibly stay for a moment, hear what that guy is talking about, and see if that has any value for him and combine with all what is already collected during a journey.

Windmill knight said:
prasimix] I took from Osho what I think that is valuable and continue on my journey said:
prasimix said:
It looks to me as trying to make judgment about Laura works based on source like Vincent Bridges. His work and teaching is too broad and extensive that you can simply said that there is nothing valuable, and I cannot say that he is a just another messenger of "love and light" because you have to learn about his opinion and heavy criticism of PTB.
Keeping in mind that disinformation contains a mix of truth and lies, just having criticism of PTB doesn't make one a truth seeker - look at Alex Jones for example. Having "something valuable" does not make someone a sincere seeker since you can make that argument about all disinformation - if you simply weed out the lies that entrap you and discern the truth, like in the Bible for example.
Yes, I'm aware. I don't know how good is Alex Jones as an example, at least he is still well, alive and not poisoned (yet). Osho said many things, many of them sounds at least naive to me, he said that many of things that he previously said is stupid generating, I believe, many question marks over the heads of many followers.

SAO said:
Well, what does he teach? What kind of life does he lead? What kind of person is he? What doe he do and what does he consider important in life?
I believe that most of us knows about his life from few years he spent in US. But as fast as I know he comes there at the end of his life (1981.) when he was 50 year old. Before that he tried hard to learn as much as possible from direct experience, meditations, reading thousands of books (both eastern and western), works as a professor on the University, and started to teach around India and comes to many direct and very dangerous confrontation especially with religious leaders (few murder attempts, last was in 1980. possibly that was connected with decision to move to US).

SAO said:
prasimix said:
A story about his 93 RRs, his sexual harassment/exploitation are mind blowing but if you try to conduct your research about such topics maybe you'll get some additional ideas
Are you saying it is not true?
I'd like to say that I has some different type of information then something that is mainly based on the sponsored documentary Fear is the Master that e.g. prove his sexual exploitation as good as "well known truth" that jetliners conducted by crazy terrorists is a cause of crushing down WTC in 9/11. That documentary, indeed has pictured some Indian guy with a beard, but it looks at least to me so cheap.

SAO said:
prasimix said:
I took from Osho what I think that is valuable and continue on my journey, and personally I'd like to know what kind of answer we'll hear if Laura asks C's about that strange guy and his "mission".
It sounds like you had to sift - does that mean that not everything he did or said was valuable, and if so, why not? Can you give examples of the not valuable things?
Hm, maybe my writing leave an impression that I "sift" for someone or something, sorry for that, again and maybe it can sounds as cheap excuse, but English is not my mother tongue and I cannot judge in a way as many of you can.
Something what was valuable to me is some insights about ego (from "Book about Ego", Croatian translation, don't know a original title), also some insights about dynamic in relationship about men and women ("Book about Men"), his thoughts about child ("Book about child"), and lots of jokes as an unavoidable ingredient of his speeches.
Something that was interesting but find as something of not real value is his idea of living in commune where child can be grown up from many people thru diverse interactions. I don't know from which source he brought that idea, it could be from one side a huge deception, but from other side just a dream from someone who saw a world where interaction is more STO, consists of highly conscious and responsible individuals. Something like that looks more like a wishful thinking in our STS environment but not more then Tesla's idea of world with free energy. Trying to follow his idea of commune still looks like a suicide, while we are witnessing on the daily basis child molested by parents, close relatives, church clerks, what will happened then in proposed communes?
Another thing that looks to me a little bit outdated from "Western" perspective are statements in "Book about women" that talks about dynamics that don't fit with at least my experience, but again if it comes from his speech to women in India, maybe that is something completely different.
 
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