Ouspensky's Fourth Way

[domwatts23]

Hi everyone,

I just thought I would recommend a book that I have found recently which many on here will be interested in. It's called 'Ouspensky's Fourth Way' and it is a really interesting read. It describes the continuation of Ouspensky's work by Francis Roles in collaboration with the Shankaracharya of Jyotir Math. Absolutely fascinating for any students of the Fourth Way. I hope some of you get a chance to read it! You can buy it from The Study Society's website.

Best wishes to everyone on the forum.

 

[davey72]

That sounds interesting. I have been curious as to the parting of ways he had with Gurdjieff, and what type of path he had taken afterwards.

 

[domwatts23]

I was also really intrigued by that and it is the theme of the book. For instance, it includes previously unpublished material regarding his last few months with his closest pupils which is really amazing to read. The efforts he made to ensure that the Fourth Way could continue were truly remarkable

 

[Mikey]

That sounds interesting. I have been curious as to the parting of ways he had with Gurdjieff, and what type of path he had taken afterwards.

Patterson's Struggle of the Magicians -- Exploring the Teacher Student Relationship is a good resource regarding this matter.

 

[Psalehesost]

That sounds interesting. I have been curious as to the parting of ways he had with Gurdjieff, and what type of path he had taken afterwards.

Patterson's Struggle of the Magicians -- Exploring the Teacher Student Relationship is a good resource regarding this matter.

Or his newer book Georgi Ivanovitch Gurdjieff: The Man, The Teaching, His Mission, which is basically a massive overhaul of SotM. It includes much more information on the later years, and the focus ends up broader with all the additional information.

 

[Renaissance]

This thread is worth a read on the topic as well: Imitation Fourth Way Groups Started by Gurdjieff Rejects

 

[domwatts23]

Did anyone get a chance to buy the book?

 

[Menna]

I believe O and G split because G once told O to travel a long distance to meet him and go through great Efforts. Once O finally met up with G - G told him to turn around and go home. This was planned by G as he believed O had trouble getting past self importance. This put a strain on their relationship so I read but who can really know the inner workings of their relationship it was so long ago and personal.

 

[Keyhole]

I believe O and G split because G once told O to travel a long distance to meet him and go through great Efforts. Once O finally met up with G - G told him to turn around and go home. This was planned by G as he believed O had trouble getting past self importance. This put a strain on their relationship so I read but who can really know the inner workings of their relationship it was so long ago and personal.

I was under the impression that Orage finally chose to devote his time and energy to his relationship in America, and that staying with his partner was not compatible with meeting G's demands - time, money etc. I may be wrong however.

 

[Menna]

In my post O represented Ouspenski as this topic is about Ouspenski not orage

 

[Alada]

This thread is worth a read on the topic as well: Imitation Fourth Way Groups Started by Gurdjieff Rejects

Indeed. It may be an interesting read, but best not to get too hung or romanticise on the continuation of the Ouspensky line. It is worth noting that the Study Society in London (the Francis Roles line) has all but fizzed out into nothing. Rodney Collin’s line didn’t progress very far either. Though some Collin’s work (letters to his group members in particular) are a fascinating read.

Especially worth noting that Collin makes mention of Ouspensky in his last days instructing that the work ought to be reformulated, built again almost from scratch to better suit the times. If that’s the case, it seems neither group made solid, lasting progress in that direction, it being very difficult to keep things moving on a steady course, in a ‘straight’ line.

Not to say nothing of value was produced, but maybe the time was not yet right to really rebuild it from scratch, science hadn’t yet proved the tools to make it work on a practical level, so they ‘looked to the east’ only to find more of the same, albeit in a different flavor. And threw G out with the bathwater to boot. That’s how it seems to me anyway.

 

[Keyhole]

In my post O represented Ouspenski as this topic is about Ouspenski not orage

Apologies, this is a good example of why one should read the full thread before choosing to post.

 

[domwatts23]

This thread is worth a read on the topic as well: Imitation Fourth Way Groups Started by Gurdjieff Rejects

Indeed. It may be an interesting read, but best not to get too hung or romanticise on the continuation of the Ouspensky line. It is worth noting that the Study Society in London (the Francis Roles line) has all but fizzed out into nothing. Rodney Collin’s line didn’t progress very far either. Though some Collin’s work (letters to his group members in particular) are a fascinating read.

Especially worth noting that Collin makes mention of Ouspensky in his last days instructing that the work ought to be reformulated, built again almost from scratch to better suit the times. If that’s the case, it seems neither group made solid, lasting progress in that direction, it being very difficult to keep things moving on a steady course, in a ‘straight’ line.

Not to say nothing of value was produced, but maybe the time was not yet right to really rebuild it from scratch, science hadn’t yet proved the tools to make it work on a practical level, so they ‘looked to the east’ only to find more of the same, albeit in a different flavor. And threw G out with the bathwater to boot. That’s how it seems to me anyway.

Alada I think you are right about what you have said in terms of the Study Society. It does seem that it has fizzled out a bit and certainly is not an organised fourth way school.

Having said that, I think the book and the story of Francis Roles' relationship with the Shankaracharya is extremely interesting. The idea discussed in the book is that much of the reason for Ouspensky's split with Gurdjieff was that Ouspensky believed Gurdjieff to have lost contact with his source, a member/members of the 'inner circle'. The unpublished material regarding the last years of Ouspensky's life is really amazing to read, and he went to enormous efforts, it seems, to prepare some of his 'followers' to be able to meet, and recognise that they had met, another member of the inner circle.

Francis Roles believed Shantananda Saraswati filled this role, and the teachings of Saraswati are in extremely close alignment with what Gurdjieff passed on about the Fourth Way. I have never seen the Fourth Way explicitly related to Advaita Vedanta before and, as I have spent a lot of time studying both the Fourth Way and Advaita, this is why the book interested me so much.

Shantananda Saraswati believed that the mantra meditation taught by the School of Meditation, which I was initiated into two years ago, is another method for achieving the same results as true Fourth Way practise. I understand this is a controversial claim, and I have no opinion one way or the other, but I wondered what you guys think of all this and I thought some people might like to read it.

Best wishes