Please ask Cs the question of the century

maxwell1110

Padawan Learner
I believe the question of the century might also be the laziest. :whistle: But I have enjoyed thinking about talent vs hard work and reading the response. They’re really is no reason to seek the answer from a channeled source. If talent is ability inherited then to not develop it is rather lazy and even slightly arrogant - a disservice to others.

There’s also the 10,000 hours to mastery - the idea that one can reasonably become well versed in something (mastery) given enough time and effort - aka hard work. So, if the work is the reward why not put in the hours into something your good at (or just curious about) while also developing your shortcomings too.

Making sure your surrounded by the right ‘talent’ is also important since you may find yourself surrounded by a lower bar and stagnating. Throwing yourself into a higher talent pool will force you to revaluate your own talents thus deciding whether it’s worth the effort to continue putting in - hard work.
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
This is a question with a very non-binary, subjective answer requiring tons of qualification.

It's pretty obvious that this one can be most easily placed in the Networking box rather than the Channeling box for the best results. Some fine insight has been offered by folks here so far.
 

genero81

Ambassador
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I think the better question is how to interact with reality, or what is, in a way that produces above average overall results? That takes talent, hard work, knowledge, imagination and creativity. As well as flexibility that requires a certain measure of humility, rather than being too rigid in one's beliefs.

Why settle for excellence in one area that's likely tied to desire and self image when you can begin to open up to unlimited possibilities?
 
Everybody has a degree of natural ability in any endeavor. Some people have a natural “talent“ and some people are absolutely crap!

In my experience, someone who is crap at a particular endeavor can improve their ability with practice and hard work, but they will never be great - no matter how much work they put in.

Conversely, while someone may be a natural genius in a particular endeavor, they will generally be annihilated when competing with someone starting with a natural “talent” who has refined and developed that talent through hard work, practice and experience.

The concept of 10,000 hours is what it takes for someone with ”aptitude” to “master” the subject. But you have to have a natural intuition, in the first place, for it to work...

I have spent way more than 10,000 hours trying to learn how to play guitar (and I know how to learn), but I was crap at music as a child, and I am still crap, despite being an expert at music theory, and musical composition, production, and expression.

Regardless, after 40 years, I still can’t play a tune end-to-end without making mistakes, and sounding like a clumsy child. (But it doesn’t stop me loving guitar, or trying! ;-))

Meanwhile, I can learn scientific concepts at the speed I can read... (Last night I started from scratch, and then mastered the implementation of ring-buffer-based comb filtering in DSP. Today I implemented it perfectly in an application I am developing... Tomorrow, biquads!)

Similarly, I was born with Aspergers, and despite spending my entire life trying to “be human”, at best, I can pass for “eccentric”...

I put way more than 10,000 hours into that one...
 

Michael B-C

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Or another quick example. One athlete was born with good physique (long lengs, big lungs, fast reflexes, etc) in other words talent, while another athlete was born average. Will average's hard work prevail doing twice or thrice the amount of exercises compared to talented one who only does the stardard sets of exercises? Or if they put equal amount of effort? Won't the natural talent win?
Talent may well mostly be the ability to put the hard work in and not be bored or give up before you reach excellence.
This is a question with a very non-binary, subjective answer requiring tons of qualification.


Well at least the question has got us all thinking!

I think the question starts Ancient of Lore with so many qualifications - as Woodsman says - finding the answer (question of questions as you put it, with a claim to one answer) is next to impossible. For example there is clearly a difference in the talent you describe which is primarily a case of the mechanic of the body being so constituted that it has an innate advantage over the average person you describe - but is that talent? Is essentially inborn, optimal mechanical efficiency talent? And if so how do you compare this to say a dancer who uses a different set of mechanical attributes or a painter who uses less but to an even greater degree of specific and minute body-mind coordination. Or a poet who hardly leaves their writing desk? Talent seems to be in the eye of the beholder anyway - and we all know the world is full of psychopaths who have a great 'talent' for enacting mayhem and evil!

nicklebleu touches on possibly a key source of the talent well - that is an inner quality, an indefinable purpose and complex mosaic of merging possibilities that eventually gestate into an individual, complex and yet precisely revealed quality that we stand in awe of. Complexity and talent seem to have a link. My throw away hard work is also in there - or rather if it isn't in there the talent cannot prosper - and so is the accumulated effect of 10,000 hours. I know from personal experience that there is a kind of break through moment that comes from a long gestational period of feeding in 'information' and constantly attempting to apply it followed by more information input. Something happens where this process can suddenly lift you onto a whole different plane of 'talent' that you had no idea existed within you when you set out on the path. I suspect it has something to do with alignment with the information field, with creating firm bonds with the same and a feedback loop begins to cement and activate. The old saying talent is god given is in that way true. But the two ends of the bond have to become in tune, or amplified, for the results to begin to actually show. So there's luck, and fate and design and hard work and choices and etc etc. There is also soul calling or life lessons in that your talent may just be about where you are on the learning curve through multiple goes at it - an accumulated set of lessons that now set off another lesson - and maybe what we call talent can also be a curse that will throw you back down the ladder again because, well, you were blinded by your talent! So no one thing - and no such one thing perhaps as talent.

One of the best examinations of the awe of pure talent/genius is Peter Shaffer's magnificent play/film Amadeus where the hard working, dedicated composer Salieri is faced with his own mediocrity in the face of the sublime yet utterly debauched talent of Mozart - who soars, suffers and dies young whilst Salieri is left to rot in the pit of his own making. I blame seeing this film on everything that followed in my life (joke) but if you haven't seen it - apart from being a very 'talented' movie (when the director was asked why his films were always so good, he said simply 'because I surround myself with talented people!) - it's also a wonderful examination of talent v genius v hollowness vs the horror humans have when they come face to face with the great abyss of the only talent that really exists - the divine unknowable source.

 

zak

Dagobah Resident
Gifted with talent (I think). For example back in school and right now in uni. The things people spend weeks to learn, I learn in a few days so I just laze around, daydreaming, playing games and doing nothing. But now since I joined this "Cassiopaean Experiment" I'm planning to start learning stuff from here.

Honestly, I don't remember the last time I was HARDWORKING if I ever was because things just naturally come to me. Even if sometimes the things don't go so easily as they usually are I just apply A BIT OF EFFORT then things go well as usual.
Wish you can learn from talented hard workers from this Forum, and that you use your talent to grow and to bloom in your life.
 

scotseeker

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
My two cents on talent and hard work... I personally think that both are capable of reaching goals in this life, they may be different goals but reaching them is what counts, to the individual. If talent does not have goals then perhaps the “talent“ is wasted and life unfulfilled for that person. If hard work sets a goal and reaches it, perhaps that individual sets a higher goal, due to feeling a sense of accomplishment from making the goal a reality. As we all are creating a new reality based on what we ”do/be” at this moment, seems to me that hard work feels better to the individual creating the new reality. If the individual with talent does not make use of the talent and rests on their laurels (so to speak) then what life fulfillment comes of that? If Laura did not make use of her incredible fast reading an analytical skills, this forum would certainly not be even close to what it is today! As a group we would not had a valuable resource to get as far as we all have, here.

Which brings me to where I was going with the above... if either talent or hard work through the individual (or group) does not set goals and achieve them in benefit of service to others, then what is the point? As individuals or as a group, does not our talent or hard work become somewhat lost if it is not a benefit/service to others? I try to use this as a guide when I set goals and measure them while they are in progress.

As a group and individual I believe both talent and hard work are needed, both contribute to creating a new reality and are very complimentary to each other. In this way, both “win”!
 

Keit

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My two cents on talent and hard work... I personally think that both are capable of reaching goals in this life, they may be different goals but reaching them is what counts, to the individual. If talent does not have goals then perhaps the “talent“ is wasted and life unfulfilled for that person. If hard work sets a goal and reaches it, perhaps that individual sets a higher goal, due to feeling a sense of accomplishment from making the goal a reality. As we all are creating a new reality based on what we ”do/be” at this moment, seems to me that hard work feels better to the individual creating the new reality. If the individual with talent does not make use of the talent and rests on their laurels (so to speak) then what life fulfillment comes of that?

I think the above is on point. It appears that beside "natural" abilities it is important to have an aim or a meaning. And taking active steps.

If "normal life" stuff comes easy, then perhaps it is a gift from the Universe. That this person won't have to spend as much time and energy as others would. And in such a case this person is faced with a choice if to simply enjoy the gift, or to utilize this free time on other endeavors.

But then this person would need to have a "longing" for something new/better, and then this longing would have to be coupled with "utilization". That's when the hardwork and struggle come into play.

Talent appears to be a multifactorial trait that may provide a person a good "start", but it's the repeated utilization and perfection that creates "expertise".

For example, they say that in medical field, or in many other fields, a person is a novice for the first two years. And only after 5-6 years of daily practice and continuous accumulation and application of knowledge one can be called "an expert".

Besides, talent doesn't mean "quality of character". In this respect talent is just is. Like the color of the eyes or the hair. It means that instead of 10 rubles you have 1000 rubles in your pocket. And just like in the Parable of the Talents, it depends on what you choose to do with it.

And as others remarked, there appears to be a social element to it. If you use this talent for a personal gain only, or if it benefits or improves the lives of those around you.

Laura would be a very good example of proper utilization of talents. An ability to speedread, coupled with enormous curiocity, sharp mind and investigative drive, tripled with hard work and perseverance, and quadrupled with generosity of spirit. :-)
 

3DStudent

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I had some other thoughts on the latest posts here. I think that talent = potential utilized. For example you can be tall and muscular but do nothing athletic in your life. It sounds similar to having an affinity for something.

In certain hobbies or endeavors I tent to carve out what's useful and discard the rest. It's like the habit beginning with end in mind. Take what you need from things, and later you can synthesize the bits that you thought important from multiple sources.

I don't want to be a master at anything really. A jack of some trades approach seems better to me. The main thing I was good at was playing video games. I supposed my hours would be near 10,000, at least 7,500. It seems useless, but these days with streaming and Esports it actually seems like a legitimate career.

On the 10k hour thing: If you take your job and find out how many actual hours you work a week, you can find the years it takes for mastery. It might take a few more years, because sometimes you are not actually engaged directly in your profession, doing busywork or whatnot. A rough estimate for me was 6 1/3 years, and I've passed that already. So there. :-P

So this idea of not wanting to be a master sounds like not wanting to be the best. I'd rather just be my best, or just be better than the previous day as Jordan Peterson advises.
 

bosy

Padawan Learner
Does hardwork really beat talent?
I myself privately and personally don't think so. Talent needs work and takes less effort. I couldn't paint Lady with an Ermine no matter what. Even if I could repaint it would I be painting so good? I think that I could achieve many things through effort. Whatever it would be. I also know that feeling of creativity with some struggles but somehow easygoing. For me it would be football not long distance running or writing not building, for someone else it would be the other way round. But I think if you're good at something it actually takes some talent. The world's question in football was: 'who's better, Messi or Ronaldo'. While they play football the same amount of time. Differ in personalities. People would say that Messi is easygoing and Rolando, I mean Ronaldo, hard-trying. But is it even true. It could be even better example than art because it uses both practice, creativity and athletics. In the terms of art - I could have to make a fire or to build a house. Someone talented would also like it, someone not would only have to. But who knows if achieving something doesn't bring some sort of sense of inspiration and accomplishment that wakes a talent? I don't have to paint. I think that talented people go through many struggles. But someone not as talented wouldn't be so obvious about it.
 
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