Pneumothorax

[Bo]

Is there any good health information available about a Pneumothorax? I could not find anything with the search function.

There is a friend of mine on facebook who has suffered this 5 times in a row, even after an operation. I experienced it myself aswell 5 years ago and denied operations. Instead I started to excersice the muscles in my chest. Since then I haven't been affected by it and it seems to have been completly restored. I would like to help him by giving advice. But I would have to need some hard data on what could help him prevent it.

Maybe some books that I could advise him to read?

 

[HiThere]

Tall, thin persons are more prone to pneumothorax than others. It is sometimes associated with Marfans' syndrome (around 5%?). Smokers, especially of cannabis, are more prone to pneumothorax.

More information here:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001151/

 

[Vulcan59]

There is something here, Bo.

...Recurrence of pneumothorax as a possible complication of elective circumcision. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1978; 132: 583.

 

[Bo]

Tall, thin persons are more prone to pneumothorax than others. It is sometimes associated with Marfans' syndrome (around 5%?). Smokers, especially of cannabis, are more prone to pneumothorax.

More information here:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001151/

Yeah I knew that much aswell.

Although it mentions:

Prevention

There is no known way to prevent a collapsed lung, but you can decrease your risk by not smoking.

Seems like BS to me. Because I know that person doesn't smoke. Neither did I when it happenend at that time.

There doesn't seem to be many medical books on this condition either. I did find:

Living With Lung and Colon Endometriosis: Catamenial Pneumothorax by Glynis D. Wallace D.M.

But it seems to be directed more towards women.

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Lung-Colon-Endometriosis-Pneumothorax/dp/1420883313/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343853652&sr=1-2&keywords=Pneumothorax

 

[Bo]

There is something here, Bo.

...Recurrence of pneumothorax as a possible complication of elective circumcision. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1978; 132: 583.

Thanks!

Now that is quite interesting...

The guy is turkish and I think most turkish men are circumcised. I was aswell when I was at a very young age. Maybe there is a connection there indeed. But then it also happens to people who are not circumcised.

Did find this:

Anesthetic Complications. Lastly, the anesthetic or lack thereof, may produce complications. General anesthesia led to deaths related to circumcision in at least one study.37 Caudal anesthesia is currently being employed in some centers,32 and its use, like the use of all regional anesthetics has its own inherent complications. When local anesthetic agents are injected into the corpora cavernosa, they can injure the tissues, producing impotence as previously noted.53 Additionally, idiosyncratic reactions and overdosages can occur. Solutions containing epinephrine may produce local tissue problems or systemic toxicity.6 The performance of neonatal circumcision without anesthesia produces decreased Po2,57 increased serum cortisol, and withdrawal,25 all indirect evidence of pain. Additionally, circumcision without anesthesia in a newborn has precipitated a pneumothorax.3

_http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/kaplan/

What a barbaric culture

 

[truth seeker]

Thanks!

Now that is quite interesting...

The guy is turkish and I think most turkish men are circumcised. I was aswell when I was at a very young age. Maybe there is a connection there indeed. But then it also happens to people who are not circumcised.

Interesting indeed. If it is the case that it can be caused due to circumcision, to me this would relate to trauma in general which could then mean that many traumatic incidents may cause pneumothorax or lung collapse (whether partial or full).

The link below says:

This can be caused by an injury to the chest, usually from a car accident, stab wound, or gunshot wound. It can also be caused by fractured ribs, electric shock or near drowning.

_http://www.traumasurvivorsnetwork.org/traumapedias/67

You may already be aware of this so not sure if that helps.

 

[Bo]

Thanks!

Now that is quite interesting...

The guy is turkish and I think most turkish men are circumcised. I was aswell when I was at a very young age. Maybe there is a connection there indeed. But then it also happens to people who are not circumcised.

Interesting indeed. If it is the case that it can be caused due to circumcision, to me this would relate to trauma in general which could then mean that many traumatic incidents may cause pneumothorax or lung collapse (whether partial or full).

The link below says:

This can be caused by an injury to the chest, usually from a car accident, stab wound, or gunshot wound. It can also be caused by fractured ribs, electric shock or near drowning.

_http://www.traumasurvivorsnetwork.org/traumapedias/67

You may already be aware of this so not sure if that helps.

Thanks, Yeah that makes sense. It's quite a scary experience. But so far there is no real medical cure for this matter. Maybe I can advise him to read books related to diet(like primal body, primal mind and detoxify or die) if hes interested. Afterall the body does repair itself when one is taking the correct food.

 

[truth seeker]

Thanks, Yeah that makes sense. It's quite a scary experience. But so far there is no real medical cure for this matter. Maybe I can advise him to read books related to diet(like primal body, primal mind and detoxify or die) if hes interested. Afterall the body does repair itself when one is taking the correct food.

This may be a good idea if he's open to it. Others may feel differently.

It seems that the treatment options available may depend on the actual cause or diagnosis of it. Some of the few sites I've looked at say that it can even occur 'spontaneously'. I'm not currently convinced of that as it makes little sense to me that a lung collapse can occur out of nowhere. What may make more sense is that there are certain conditions in the body that may predispose one to lung collapse - much the same as with any dis-ease.

 

[Gonzo]

Although the entire breathing apparatus is quite complicated (for example, sensors in the nasal cavity monitor C02 levels and adjust breathing accordingly), I wonder about the role the diaphragm plays in cases of pneumothorax.

If it's not too painful, I wonder if pipe breathing, which certainly exercises the diaphragm, would help.

There are many variables that can come into play as well. Perhaps the stickiness of the mucous inside the lung can be so intense that, once a lung has collapsed, and certain tissue is weakened, it makes it harder for the lung to unstick and open for expansion. As well, the cavity around a collapsed lung could play a role in creating pressure that acts against the lung expansion (I vaguely recall from my military medic training oh so long ago, that sucking chest wounds - perforation through the skin into the lung, can allow air to enter the void around the lung, creating pressure on the outside wall of the lung).

Scar tissue on the lung could also create adhesions, making one side stick to the other like velcro. Such scars could perhaps be caused by serious infections like pneumonia.

Gonzo

 

[Hildegarda]

I'm not currently convinced of that as it makes little sense to me that a lung collapse can occur out of nowhere. What may make more sense is that there are certain conditions in the body that may predispose one to lung collapse

Smokers, especially of cannabis, are more prone to pneumothorax.

Nitrite inhalants ("poppers"), club-going crowd drug favorite, is another factor that has been linked to spontaneous and recurrent pneumothorax in otherwise healthy young adults. An acquaintance of mine has learned that the hard way. He didn't even thought of himself a drug user, he said, as that drug is typically considered light and harmless, more of a mood modifier than a real mind-altering substance. This is why I thought about it when I read the original question. This condition seems to be the kind that really calls for careful investigation and reexamination of assumptions. I agree that your friend might want to get an exact diagnosis and clean up his/her diet for sure.

 

[Bo]

Thanks, Yeah that makes sense. It's quite a scary experience. But so far there is no real medical cure for this matter. Maybe I can advise him to read books related to diet(like primal body, primal mind and detoxify or die) if hes interested. Afterall the body does repair itself when one is taking the correct food.

This may be a good idea if he's open to it. Others may feel differently.

It seems that the treatment options available may depend on the actual cause or diagnosis of it. Some of the few sites I've looked at say that it can even occur 'spontaneously'. I'm not currently convinced of that as it makes little sense to me that a lung collapse can occur out of nowhere. What may make more sense is that there are certain conditions in the body that may predispose one to lung collapse - much the same as with any dis-ease.

Yeah exactly, it's quite weird they call it ''spontanous''. But at some level I can understand why they could say it. Because there are cases of people waking up out of bed and suddenly getting a collapsed lung. But as you said I also think that it is triggered by certain conditions in the body.

Although the entire breathing apparatus is quite complicated (for example, sensors in the nasal cavity monitor C02 levels and adjust breathing accordingly), I wonder about the role the diaphragm plays in cases of pneumothorax.

If it's not too painful, I wonder if pipe breathing, which certainly exercises the diaphragm, would help.

There are many variables that can come into play as well. Perhaps the stickiness of the mucous inside the lung can be so intense that, once a lung has collapsed, and certain tissue is weakened, it makes it harder for the lung to unstick and open for expansion. As well, the cavity around a collapsed lung could play a role in creating pressure that acts against the lung expansion (I vaguely recall from my military medic training oh so long ago, that sucking chest wounds - perforation through the skin into the lung, can allow air to enter the void around the lung, creating pressure on the outside wall of the lung).

Scar tissue on the lung could also create adhesions, making one side stick to the other like velcro. Such scars could perhaps be caused by serious infections like pneumonia.

Gonzo

Well the pain depends, if you are lucky, there is little pain, if your not, it is seriously extreme. But if the pain is not severe, I think pipe breathing could be beneficial in such situations. But offcourse every situation is different.

I'm not currently convinced of that as it makes little sense to me that a lung collapse can occur out of nowhere. What may make more sense is that there are certain conditions in the body that may predispose one to lung collapse

Smokers, especially of cannabis, are more prone to pneumothorax.

Nitrite inhalants ("poppers"), club-going crowd drug favorite, is another factor that has been linked to spontaneous and recurrent pneumothorax in otherwise healthy young adults. An acquaintance of mine has learned that the hard way. He didn't even thought of himself a drug user, he said, as that drug is typically considered light and harmless, more of a mood modifier than a real mind-altering substance. This is why I thought about it when I read the original question. This condition seems to be the kind that really calls for careful investigation and reexamination of assumptions. I agree that your friend might want to get an exact diagnosis and clean up his/her diet for sure.

Thanks,

Yeah I will advise him to read some diet books, hopefully he is open minded towards that.

 

[Courageous Inmate Sort]

Tall, thin persons are more prone to pneumothorax than others. It is sometimes associated with Marfans' syndrome (around 5%?). Smokers, especially of cannabis, are more prone to pneumothorax.

More information here:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001151/

Bo,

My younger brother had a pneumothorax maybe three years ago at an early age (~20 y.o.) and that was basically what his doctor told him: you are tall and very thin and you smoke a lot so, there you go, a recipe for pneumothorax.

I hope you and your friend don't have to go through this again. I remember when he told me about the awful awful pain and despair he felt at the time. I did not know how to help him and I knew he was not going to stop smoking, so I suggested that he at least smoked roll your own cigarettes with as-natural-as-possible tobacco.

Now he takes better care of his lungs when he gets a cold (he uses a lot of expectorant teas, such as guaco) and he switched from industrial cigarettes to roll your own. He continues to smoke a LOT, but he has not switched back to industrial cigarettes. He is not into the paleo diet but he started eating more fatty meats since I began on the diet. He hasn't had another episode yet, but I really don't know if there is another episode just waiting around the corner or if he is "cured". His doctor implied at the time that the chance of having another one was not so slim.

I'll check with him if his doctor gave any other advice besides "stop smoking!".

 

[Courageous Inmate Sort]

Tall, thin persons are more prone to pneumothorax than others. It is sometimes associated with Marfans' syndrome (around 5%?). Smokers, especially of cannabis, are more prone to pneumothorax.

More information here:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001151/

Bo,

My younger brother had a pneumothorax maybe three years ago at an early age (~20 y.o.) and that was basically what his doctor told him: you are tall and very thin and you smoke a lot so, there you go, a recipe for pneumothorax.

I hope you and your friend don't have to go through this again. I remember when he told me about the awful awful pain and despair he felt at the time. I did not know how to help him and I knew he was not going to stop smoking, so I suggested that he at least smoked roll your own cigarettes with as-natural-as-possible tobacco.

Now he takes better care of his lungs when he gets a cold (he uses a lot of expectorant teas, such as guaco) and he switched from industrial cigarettes to roll your own. He continues to smoke a LOT, but he has not switched back to industrial cigarettes. He is not into the paleo diet but he started eating more fatty meats since I began on the diet. He hasn't had another episode yet, but I really don't know if there is another episode just waiting around the corner or if he is "cured". His doctor implied at the time that the chance of having another one was not so slim.

I'll check with him if his doctor gave any other advice besides "stop smoking!".

I just spoke with my brother and his doctor told him to take N-Acetylcysteine together with acebrophylline. I've used N-Acetylcysteine successfully as a expectorant in case of heavy colds with no apparent side effects (I also use guaco tea to this purpose). I believe N-Acetylcysteine has also been discussed elsewhere in the forum. I have no experience with acebrophylline though.

I hope your friend gets better!

 

[Bo]

Tall, thin persons are more prone to pneumothorax than others. It is sometimes associated with Marfans' syndrome (around 5%?). Smokers, especially of cannabis, are more prone to pneumothorax.

More information here:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001151/

Bo,

My younger brother had a pneumothorax maybe three years ago at an early age (~20 y.o.) and that was basically what his doctor told him: you are tall and very thin and you smoke a lot so, there you go, a recipe for pneumothorax.

I hope you and your friend don't have to go through this again. I remember when he told me about the awful awful pain and despair he felt at the time. I did not know how to help him and I knew he was not going to stop smoking, so I suggested that he at least smoked roll your own cigarettes with as-natural-as-possible tobacco.

Now he takes better care of his lungs when he gets a cold (he uses a lot of expectorant teas, such as guaco) and he switched from industrial cigarettes to roll your own. He continues to smoke a LOT, but he has not switched back to industrial cigarettes. He is not into the paleo diet but he started eating more fatty meats since I began on the diet. He hasn't had another episode yet, but I really don't know if there is another episode just waiting around the corner or if he is "cured". His doctor implied at the time that the chance of having another one was not so slim.

I'll check with him if his doctor gave any other advice besides "stop smoking!".

I just spoke with my brother and his doctor told him to take N-Acetylcysteine together with acebrophylline. I've used N-Acetylcysteine successfully as a expectorant in case of heavy colds with no apparent side effects (I also use guaco tea to this purpose). I believe N-Acetylcysteine has also been discussed elsewhere in the forum. I have no experience with acebrophylline though.

I hope your friend gets better!

Indeed. NAC is also one of my favourite supplements.

and my friend on FaceBook never replied on the advice I gave him, so I think he doesn't care. But anyway atleast I tried.

 

[nicklebleu]

One of the most common causes of "spontaneous" PT are little blebs that form at the apex of the lung. Now why this happens is anyone's guess ... But once they are there they are (most likely) not going to go away on their own. They pose some risk of rupturing, which then causes a pneumothorax.

The main modalities of treatment today consists of conservative (non-operative) treatment the first few times (chest drain until PT has resolved). If recurrences happen at some stage operative intervention is indicated, their aim being twofold: 1) remove adhesions and scratching the pleura (membrane covering chest and lung) to create an inflammation, so that they fuse together thus preventing further collapse; 2) remove any other blebs at the lung apex which might rupture in the future.

Of course this is a painful operation and the curative rate is not 100%, but in my opinion, if someone has had recurrent PT this is the way I would go down, as there will most likely be blebs somewhere on the lung which might cause problems further down the road.

The main thing then is to find a competent thoracic surgeon ...