I 've tried and tried to figure out this one worker, I figured she just had a messed up life, both in childhood, which then continued onto adulthood. Something happened between her and I, however, that gave me the answer. I've always had an interest in evil, serial killers, liars, etc., and never understood why I have an interest in the macabre. I now think God was preparing me to see and identify those that were more hamful than seems at first. Having been interested in serial killers, I'm familiar with the terms psychopath and sociopaths, so when this incidence occured, the anser hit me. This woman was a psychopath, and when I looked it up (which led me to this site) I knew I was right. I alwas knew that there are no 'levels' of mental issues, some are worse than others. A psychopath does not necessarily kill or rape or commit horredous crimes, but can be insidious. Like minor imps compared to all out demons. Because of this latest incident, she doesn't know how to interact or deal with me and watches me, trying to figure me out. But, having been prey and not predator in my life, I think that's what caused me to act cool and calm, and it threw her off. If I describe this women and her actions and home life, it would make your eyebrows rise. But, being Christians, we hesitate to label and judge harshly. I don't feel threatened, but when I spoke with this to another co-worker who has been the subject of her wrath, she agreed. I also spoke with two other co-workers who are also very good people. Two people, by the way, who almost glow with goodness. They both looked me right in the eye, (they NEVER indulge in catty remarks, comments or naster rejoinders), and each said, "Yes, I know." Then walked away. Unfortunately, I've come under the psychopath's scutiny. Do I want help? No, but would like some suggestions on what to do to truly protect myself. By the way, the boss thinks she's wonderful, and wants to hear nothing about her, and listens to everything she says. Thank God we're union, and we can use it to keep the boss from putting her in a position of harm to us. In fact, that's why she didn't get the lead worker position when it was available, and the other co-worker has been her main focus point. Since I'm friends with the other co-worker, I've also come under her scutiny.
psychopaths @ work
- Thread starter govwrkr
- Start date
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Mr2000, this comment comes across as rather flippant and unnecessary, considering the sincerity with which govwrkr wrote and the seriousness of the situation. Please utilize external consideration when you post.Mr2000 said:
Govwrkr, this is indeed a very touchy situation. Have you read 'Snakes in Suits' by Babiak? If not, it might be well worth your time. If this person is protected by those above her, due to her manipulation of them (which is almost always the case) then approaching it head on will result in nothing other than your dismissal.
If you cannot easily and quickly find another job, then knowledge is the best protection, and it will be really important to stay very vigilant and back up all of your efforts and work with documentation provided to a third party. In other words, don't ever be in a situation where this person's word determines the impression others have of you on a professional level. Communicating with your coworkers about what is going on and documenting what you observe is usually a wise way to go as well, but tread carefully since the influence of a person like this can spread to people who might have seemed to be 'outside' her influence. In short - be very careful and do not underestimate this woman.
It's a start at least - hope it helps.
dant
The Living Force
Govwrkr,
As your avatar indicates, seems that you might be a government worker? :O
Anart has given you excellent advice, and I do recommend you pay heed to her advice.
Since the topic is 'psychopaths @ work', I thought I'd add a little bit information
of 'work situations' and attitudes that some people take on when at work.
I have been exposed to people working in many, many different jobs, working
myself up the ladder into management and then starting over full circle, i.e.,
when I lost my job, I became a customer service representative. I will not do that
again, but it was a valuable and humbling lesson to endure when I was learning
about "petty tyrants".
Anyway, I have seen "work-people" at many levels. There are some who are
willing to "kiss up" to their bosses, earning their boss's loyalty, and then acquire
"new founded powers", as if to become a spy amongst amongst their peers. In
some cases, the "spy" can be very aggressive, and may even tell their peers what
to do as if being an "acting supervisor" and note here, that the boss may even permit
it. Some peers will act on the "spy's" orders, out of sheer fear, others may complain,
but all of this may play directly to the boss's advantage. Keep in mind that this is one
of many social engineering devices that can be used by bosses, so be aware of it and be
very careful of your actions, and who you associate with. You simply do not know what
games, if any has are being played, as you are at work, you are on their turf, on their
terms, and not yours.
I personally know of some bosses who likes to use the "loyal employee" device, as a
means to learn of the employees actions, deeds, thoughts, and habits. Some bosses
are very clever, and may use another "loyal employee" device to keep an eye on "loyal
employees" as well.
Do you see: bosses do use structures and devices as a means to learn about and control
their employees. Isn't that what capitalism is about in that you give up your freedom for
possible security?
You may not realize you had any choice in the matter - the fact is, you took "the job" and
inherited all that came with it. We all did the same thing but hopefully by careful observation
and remembering, we can learn much from our "petty tyrants", as discussed by Don Juan.
And all of this is very interesting.
In one of my jobs many years ago, I was forced into a situation that I sensed, started
recording everything I did at my job, who I talked to and so on, and when it came for
my yearly review, my supervisor wrote in my review, many claims as to what I "failed"
to do, and most was grounds for firing. But I had known for a time, that the company was
not doing well financially and had plans to downsize, I also observed their looks towards
me, read their lips from a distance as they were talking amongst themselves as to what to
do with me - I knew of their aims to find the means to fire me first rather than lay me off,
the reason being of course, to save money.
When I received the review, I challenged my supervisor, and his boss, and threatened
legal action, provided proof of their false claims, and they withdrew the review only to
write another, less damaging one, but it bought me more time and prepared me for another
job. Had I not payed attention to the signs, had I not taken the time with careful planning,
I would have had a much more damaging situation at the time considering my mother was
dying of cancer, I had a HUGE mortgage and two small children as dependents.
As Anart recommended, document, document, and document, write the date, time, action,
and results in your personally bought and private notebook (keep the receipt as the company
may claim the stationery is theirs and thus company property) and keep that little book on
you at all times. This little book might be a lifesaver and it may come to your help when you
need it. Also, save all company papers given to you, all reviews, anything that you can take
home with you as long as it is not proprietary.
Anyway, start making notes now, keep your emotions in check, be "jovial" even when you
feel like crap, talk with this person only when you have to and keep your conversations as
"professional". You are not required to associate with nor to be "friends" with this person and
in fact, keep "work-friends" as "work-friends" - I do not recommend giving "work-friends" the
same level of trust as "friends", because your job is your livelihood and it should be all about
business, not a social hangout place to be with your "friends" because you will never know
which one is "Mr. Smith".
FWIW
As your avatar indicates, seems that you might be a government worker? :O
Anart has given you excellent advice, and I do recommend you pay heed to her advice.
Since the topic is 'psychopaths @ work', I thought I'd add a little bit information
of 'work situations' and attitudes that some people take on when at work.
I have been exposed to people working in many, many different jobs, working
myself up the ladder into management and then starting over full circle, i.e.,
when I lost my job, I became a customer service representative. I will not do that
again, but it was a valuable and humbling lesson to endure when I was learning
about "petty tyrants".
Anyway, I have seen "work-people" at many levels. There are some who are
willing to "kiss up" to their bosses, earning their boss's loyalty, and then acquire
"new founded powers", as if to become a spy amongst amongst their peers. In
some cases, the "spy" can be very aggressive, and may even tell their peers what
to do as if being an "acting supervisor" and note here, that the boss may even permit
it. Some peers will act on the "spy's" orders, out of sheer fear, others may complain,
but all of this may play directly to the boss's advantage. Keep in mind that this is one
of many social engineering devices that can be used by bosses, so be aware of it and be
very careful of your actions, and who you associate with. You simply do not know what
games, if any has are being played, as you are at work, you are on their turf, on their
terms, and not yours.
I personally know of some bosses who likes to use the "loyal employee" device, as a
means to learn of the employees actions, deeds, thoughts, and habits. Some bosses
are very clever, and may use another "loyal employee" device to keep an eye on "loyal
employees" as well.
Do you see: bosses do use structures and devices as a means to learn about and control
their employees. Isn't that what capitalism is about in that you give up your freedom for
possible security?
You may not realize you had any choice in the matter - the fact is, you took "the job" and
inherited all that came with it. We all did the same thing but hopefully by careful observation
and remembering, we can learn much from our "petty tyrants", as discussed by Don Juan.
And all of this is very interesting.
In one of my jobs many years ago, I was forced into a situation that I sensed, started
recording everything I did at my job, who I talked to and so on, and when it came for
my yearly review, my supervisor wrote in my review, many claims as to what I "failed"
to do, and most was grounds for firing. But I had known for a time, that the company was
not doing well financially and had plans to downsize, I also observed their looks towards
me, read their lips from a distance as they were talking amongst themselves as to what to
do with me - I knew of their aims to find the means to fire me first rather than lay me off,
the reason being of course, to save money.
When I received the review, I challenged my supervisor, and his boss, and threatened
legal action, provided proof of their false claims, and they withdrew the review only to
write another, less damaging one, but it bought me more time and prepared me for another
job. Had I not payed attention to the signs, had I not taken the time with careful planning,
I would have had a much more damaging situation at the time considering my mother was
dying of cancer, I had a HUGE mortgage and two small children as dependents.
As Anart recommended, document, document, and document, write the date, time, action,
and results in your personally bought and private notebook (keep the receipt as the company
may claim the stationery is theirs and thus company property) and keep that little book on
you at all times. This little book might be a lifesaver and it may come to your help when you
need it. Also, save all company papers given to you, all reviews, anything that you can take
home with you as long as it is not proprietary.
Anyway, start making notes now, keep your emotions in check, be "jovial" even when you
feel like crap, talk with this person only when you have to and keep your conversations as
"professional". You are not required to associate with nor to be "friends" with this person and
in fact, keep "work-friends" as "work-friends" - I do not recommend giving "work-friends" the
same level of trust as "friends", because your job is your livelihood and it should be all about
business, not a social hangout place to be with your "friends" because you will never know
which one is "Mr. Smith".
FWIW
webglider
Dagobah Resident
Govwrkr:
Anart and dant have given you excellent advice about how to protect yourself and buy yourself some time.
I would also suggest that you be aware that just as you will be taking notes on their actions, so will they be taking notes on yours.
If possible, don't get yourself in a situation when you are alone with this person.
Be vigilent about any nonsubjective performance review criteria such as latenesses, absences, deadlines, and protocols. Make sure that you know what the work protocols
are.
If you have a union, and if the union has a policy that is being violated by the psychopathic boss, it has been my experience that any noncompliance will result in harassment.
Don't depend on your union to protect you.
Keep copies of all written communication that you send to her, and keep it strictly job related.
The best advice however is to find another job ASAP, following protocols of course of giving the required number of days advance notice.
Good luck.
I've seen a person such as the one you describe poison a workplace of several THOUSAND
people.
Usually superiors back up people like this. Either they are complicit in the attack, or they can't believe that what is being described is true.
Anart and dant have given you excellent advice about how to protect yourself and buy yourself some time.
I would also suggest that you be aware that just as you will be taking notes on their actions, so will they be taking notes on yours.
If possible, don't get yourself in a situation when you are alone with this person.
Be vigilent about any nonsubjective performance review criteria such as latenesses, absences, deadlines, and protocols. Make sure that you know what the work protocols
are.
If you have a union, and if the union has a policy that is being violated by the psychopathic boss, it has been my experience that any noncompliance will result in harassment.
Don't depend on your union to protect you.
Keep copies of all written communication that you send to her, and keep it strictly job related.
The best advice however is to find another job ASAP, following protocols of course of giving the required number of days advance notice.
Good luck.
I've seen a person such as the one you describe poison a workplace of several THOUSAND
people.
Usually superiors back up people like this. Either they are complicit in the attack, or they can't believe that what is being described is true.
Johnno
The Living Force
I use this quote as well as Castaneda's idea of seeking out a Petty Tyrant which is easy in the Govt. and Corporate worlds. And much the same as your experience I tend to find they treat me wearily. The "I know what you're up to." thought tends to, for some reason, keep them on guard.
They are like dangerous snakes, interesting to observe but not something you'd want to handle.
piranah
Padawan Learner
I always believed in giving people the benefit of the doubt but in a previous job this new supervisor arrived and from the get go I felt he was acting or just off key in some way. Turned out he was a master of manipulation and turned a good team into a group of gossips and bullies. how did he do this he played on peoples weaknesses and fears as far as I can make out. A lot of the job was spent in working on shift with one other person and he would talk to that person and plant suggestions in their mind that another team member was talking about them etc..People left or went sick and falsely accused each other. How he got away with it all is by sucking up to bosses and building up a complex web of lies. So I left a nervous wreck and the advice is usually to leave in such a circumstance unless you can be sure of support in any complaint you bring. These people are clever and have worked out a protection strategy long ago it is a personal call to stay or go but learn a lesson for the next job you seek to acknowledge these kind of narcissists straight away and protect yourself. Do not become too intimate with your colleagues or engage in office gossip. Learn to keep personal and work stuff separate for your own safety. You can be friendly and work well without letting others get close enough to get information to use against you. As in any part of life there are morally corrupt individuals policemen politicians doctors you name it and they coat what/who they are within the shiny regulations of equal opportunities and use human nature to assist them. Whenever you go out into the social world start watching and you will learn to spot them and not engage.
As Anart mentioned above, communication with your coworkers can be rather helpful. I agree it's not wise to give personal information away to predators, but it is also a natural part of forming healthy human bonds with people who are normal. The key seems in being able to recognize with whom you can share things. In the Ponerology study, Lobaczewski mentions how a healthy group mental hygiene can be developed by discussing pathological behavior.piranah said:
In these past weeks I'm witnessing how true this is. I work at a shelter for adolescent boys and at the end of the night we usually discuss behaviors of the kids, anomalies, trends, etc. When I first started there, I was a little uneasy about these discussions as it 'felt wrong', and this is even after 'understanding' how such discussion can be beneficial. I was experiencing a reaction to the old programming 'if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all' and 'don't judge'. Fortunately I work with a good group of people who generally have the kids best interest at hand (I say generally because there is the whole other issue of 'behavioral therapy' which pervades most all of human services, which was recently brought up in another thread) and we've developed a decent immune system, imo.
Well, this past month or so we have a new hire who is increasingly showing signs of pathological and even psychopathic behavior. The routine of discussing and analyzing behavior has been of great use in identifying and sharing the warning signs early on. The real difficulty and even potential danger has been in sharing our observations and thoughts with our director. After several meetings, the director has come down rather harshly on the staff member who has been targeted the most by this manipulator.
It's pretty much a text book case, but it's a whole lot different experiencing first hand. Since there are children from abusive homes involved (and there have been instances and attempted instances of verbal and emotional abuse to these kids by this guy), it makes the inaction and behavior of the director all the more outrageous. Being that the director is not on our shift and is generally not involved in our routine discussions, she has been inclined to accept the new staff's manipulations. Up to this point I've only talked to her about these issues in group meetings. I'm not sure what the next step will be. I'll be the only one working with this guy tomorrow. He hasn't tried to really target me - I generally haven't talked to him all that much. Oddly enough though, one night he did try and talk to me about 9/11 conspiracies and the New World Order, which I didn't give much of a response.
I'll be posting developments.
purplehaze
Jedi Master
This site might be of interest: http://www.bullyoffline.org/
pathwhisperer
A Disturbance in the Force
Bullyonline (bullyoffline for the time being) above is a great site. Another site is: http://bullyinginstitute.org/index.html .
Govwrkr, I don't know if you're still in the situation but if you are, you're in a tight spot. It's good you have a union. Before these sociopathic bullies go to work they usually make sure to have the manager on their side, as happened in your case. I was in a bullying situation that I decided to fight head on. I didn't want to leave the job because I had a lot of friends there and who wants to be pushed around, anyway. The results were far from satisfactory, "the nail sticking up is the one that gets pounded" and all that. If I had to do it over again I would just keep things between the bully and myself without going to management or HR. Deal with the bully only as far as required by the job and if possible let co-workers know the bully is untrustworthy, so you don't have to fight backing up if the bully attacks or lies about you.
Unfortunately most companies don't have anti-bullying policies and there's very little legal protection. Also, to my experience, sociopaths look out for each other -- union, management, & HR sociopaths usually side with the sociopathic bully. Good luck.
http://pathwhisperer.wordpress.com
Govwrkr, I don't know if you're still in the situation but if you are, you're in a tight spot. It's good you have a union. Before these sociopathic bullies go to work they usually make sure to have the manager on their side, as happened in your case. I was in a bullying situation that I decided to fight head on. I didn't want to leave the job because I had a lot of friends there and who wants to be pushed around, anyway. The results were far from satisfactory, "the nail sticking up is the one that gets pounded" and all that. If I had to do it over again I would just keep things between the bully and myself without going to management or HR. Deal with the bully only as far as required by the job and if possible let co-workers know the bully is untrustworthy, so you don't have to fight backing up if the bully attacks or lies about you.
Unfortunately most companies don't have anti-bullying policies and there's very little legal protection. Also, to my experience, sociopaths look out for each other -- union, management, & HR sociopaths usually side with the sociopathic bully. Good luck.
http://pathwhisperer.wordpress.com
Lirpa
Jedi Master
bullyoffline.org was a plethora of great info when dealing with my workplace bully but ultimately I had to leave. I too was a goverment worker and I tell ya the system is set up to never rehabilitate the bully as that would indicate liability on the agency. We all know how that goes with government employers!
piranah
Padawan Learner
This is very good advice anart. In a situation I know of the supervisor was the bully and yet much admired and supported by management. The people who challanged him head on lost hands down every time. The person who he most wanted to get though was a secretary who had wisely kept copies of emails and a diary of evidence. She also sought help outside the office in another part of the firm so all the while this was going on she had a third party advising and supporting her. She did not win as to say the bullying supervisor wasn't dismissed but she was able to stop him bullying her once he realized she had a clear head and evidence. One thing these social bullies aren't is stupid. I learned recently that the supervisor in question left with a glowing reference and now works for the police.anart said:
Just wanted to give an update to my previous post. Yesterday, the new hire I mentioned who was showing pathological behaviors was fired. But, the process to get to that point was choppy. One of the difficulties was that my co-worker, who was the primary target among our staff, has had generally disrespectful behaviors and exaggerated responses to the director - this seems likely to have been a stong reason for our director's lack of response. I eventually met with the director to emphasis my agreement with the points that have been made by my co-worker but to point out my disagreement with his delivery. The additional lashing out from my co-worker seems part and parcel of a reaction to pathological attack. What's interesting is after the initial resistance from management, all my co-workers were too exhausted to even want to provide any more information to them. I met with the director a couple more times where she asked what was going on, and I gave an unemotional review of what I saw.
At one point I was rather fixed in thinking the new hire was a psychopath - and I was going through 'Snakes in Suits', marking all the matching behaviors. What seemed to be a unique 'reception point' was when the Director asked me to consider more possibilities about the situation (thankfully, I had not specifically mentioned psychopathy to her). I think it was an openness on both sides that allowed for a common understanding.
At one point I was rather fixed in thinking the new hire was a psychopath - and I was going through 'Snakes in Suits', marking all the matching behaviors. What seemed to be a unique 'reception point' was when the Director asked me to consider more possibilities about the situation (thankfully, I had not specifically mentioned psychopathy to her). I think it was an openness on both sides that allowed for a common understanding.
Oh, I don't to be all dramatic again. I just wanted to ask what does it mean to get psychopaths in life and at work? Because most of reactions are move, quit your job, be a grey rock. When my contract expires in 4 months, who guarantees me I'm not going to find a similar situation somewhere else? I had such a stupid situations at work where women were jealous at me because I don't drink my coffee with sugar, I don't eat candy, I have college degree, I wear T-shirt in winter, I have more strength, I know how to cook... blah blah blah... This is really sick and funny at the same time. And now the real psychopath- the guy who fix computers at work is trying to turn more of them against me, and look what arguments they have? I'm not going to describe what this guy does in details, let's just say he comes to work to read bosses emails and watch asses. And he plays pity most of the time when he's not being charming. My shift boss got a message from him where he says he will destroy us because we've stepped on his path and I told her to save the message and show it to her boss but she didn't. I'm not even talking to this guy.What to do?
We had a similar situation at our work. It is basically a public utility, transportation, that had always been contracted to non-profits, and was unionized. The contracts would usually run about 5 years and would be renewed at that time. I worked over 20 years while in that format. It was a happy place with decent pay, and generally a harmonious place to work. Then in 2010 the contract was given to an American for profit company. Very unusual as this was a Canadian utility operating in a large metropolitan center.
Pretty soon the place was crawling with their henchmen/women.
You know the saying, 'If it ain't broke..." Well they seemed to have the thinking, 'If it ain't broke, break it', as they proceeded to change everything, to the point that the place and job was almost unrecognizable. And the union just sat on their hands, seemed almost like they were paid off.
And rules were brought in, rules on top of rules. None of which actually made the job better or easier. It just seemed they wanted a situation where you could almost always be doing something wrong, so they could control you.
Cameras were brought in, (for safety of course), and GPS tracking. You could not go anywhere not being under their eye.
The strangest thing was how many of the employees went along with all of this, and in fact became part of the oppression. Even though we were supposed to be brothers and sisters in a union, some members revelled in their new found powers in this new "system". They could put the worst work on those that they didn't like, all with the blessing of the "system".
Since I have always had a rebellious nature, I was determined to not get caught in this trap. This strategy was complicated, so I won't go into too many details, but one thing I did find was, I was never bothered, never got called in, nothing was ever said to me. I remember talking to my coworkers, and commenting, that these guys were evil, yet they were, 'paper tigers'.
It was later that I was reading the Wave, and the parts about the petty tyrants, and my job immediately came to mind. Those principles have proven to be sound, and my experience seemed to confirm a lot of it.
I relate my story, not to give you advice on what to do in your situation, but just to relate a personal experience of a similar nature.
Good luck in your endeavours.
Pretty soon the place was crawling with their henchmen/women.
You know the saying, 'If it ain't broke..." Well they seemed to have the thinking, 'If it ain't broke, break it', as they proceeded to change everything, to the point that the place and job was almost unrecognizable. And the union just sat on their hands, seemed almost like they were paid off.
And rules were brought in, rules on top of rules. None of which actually made the job better or easier. It just seemed they wanted a situation where you could almost always be doing something wrong, so they could control you.
Cameras were brought in, (for safety of course), and GPS tracking. You could not go anywhere not being under their eye.
The strangest thing was how many of the employees went along with all of this, and in fact became part of the oppression. Even though we were supposed to be brothers and sisters in a union, some members revelled in their new found powers in this new "system". They could put the worst work on those that they didn't like, all with the blessing of the "system".
Since I have always had a rebellious nature, I was determined to not get caught in this trap. This strategy was complicated, so I won't go into too many details, but one thing I did find was, I was never bothered, never got called in, nothing was ever said to me. I remember talking to my coworkers, and commenting, that these guys were evil, yet they were, 'paper tigers'.
It was later that I was reading the Wave, and the parts about the petty tyrants, and my job immediately came to mind. Those principles have proven to be sound, and my experience seemed to confirm a lot of it.
I relate my story, not to give you advice on what to do in your situation, but just to relate a personal experience of a similar nature.
Good luck in your endeavours.