Re: 2008 Crop Circles and the Cassiopaeans


FOTCM Member
From this thread:

anart said:
Yet another interesting crop circle this year - showed up on 08/08/08 - and guess what it is?



It brings to mind an orbital path (to me), with the increasing and decreasing sizes of the circles indicating increased and decreased distance from the center object(s). The 'flames' coming off the orbiting bodies (or tear drops) are reminiscent of a comet's tail, which always point away from the sun - but these are just subjective impressions. Beautiful, though...

In an odd sort of way, this recent figure 8 crop circle reminds me of the Chilbolton glyph that appeared on August 19 back in 2001, just a short time before the events of September 11.

As I recorded in an article here: , on the night that the Face of the Goddess appeared (for that is what I think it was), I had a dream - a very clear and powerful one wherein the "voice" spoke to me. I have mentioned this voice in a few places; it is a somewhat rare event, generally happens as I dream in a very special state, and I just call it "the voice of seeing." (I think I picked that up from Castaneda.)

Anyway, here is the description of the dream as I recorded it in the above linked article:

As I write this report, I am listening to Richard Hoagland on the Art Bell Show pronouncing sagely upon this wonder. He reiterates over and over how much the face looks like the face on Mars, or a primitive hominid type face, and I'm sorry that I don't see that in it at all. To make my point, here is the Glyph as it appears in the field:

And here is the face after I have used standard, automatic enhancements from my Photo Edit program:

I'm sorry, but the cupid's bow mouth and the deepset eyes suggest a woman's face to me, not a Neanderthal nor the face on Mars. And, in point of fact, on the very night this crop circle appeared, I had a dream.

In this dream was a set of images. The first set was a pair of wavy lines like the symbol of Aquarius. This used to be the symbol of the Great Mother Goddess and it represented water, consciousness, creativity, infinite energy and potential. The second set of images was the same wavy lines that had become serpents. I was puzzled by this transformation, but a voice explained it to me. You see, after the conquest of our reality by the Dominator Male Gods, the Compassionate Mother Goddess was "transmogrified" into a Serpent, or accused of consorting with a serpent. (This is standard Machiavelli: accuse your enemy of what you, yourself, are.) At this point, the worship of the Father and Son took over, paving the way for Male dominated Monotheism and all concepts of cyclic time and rebirth were overlaid with that of linear time and hell-fire and damnation.

This is what the voice told me as I was shown the images of the wavy lines and the serpents:

"The Mother Matrix is the Primal Source of all that exists in your realm. She has two faces - life giving and death dealing - and it is up to you which face you see. Those who gaze upon the Mother Matrix seeking to control her with rituals or domination or restriction in their hearts, will see only serpents - and will experience only destruction. For the Mother is a Mirror. Those who gaze upon her with non-anticipatory love in their hearts, will receive all the bounty of infinite potential."

I would say that this face is telling us that the mother will soon be showing herself to us, and it is up to us which face ultimately manifests in our realm.

I guess those were semi-prophetic words. From the 19th of August until the end of August is 11 days... and from the end of August until the attack on the WTC was another 11 days - we were 22 days away from disaster and the evidence of which way humanity was to turn.

If you look at the images above, do notice that the face seems to be divided into two aspects right down the middle. I hadn't really notice that so clearly until today.

Well, anyway, seems there was another "goddess" symbol that was discovered on July 27:


Next, look at this one discovered about the same time, July 26:


These are interesting for a couple of reasons. Have a look at this:


This is a computer simulation conformal infinity which Ark was working on during the middle of July. That is to say, he was working on the math and the simulation was done right about the time that the above two glyphs appeared.

The reason all of this is so interesting to me (aside from the fact that Ark has been working on some interesting things that seem to be directly related to crop circles as they appear - and that is amazing enough! - is because of a book I read recently: Gogmagog: The Buried Gods by T.C. Lethbridge.

Now, those of you who are familiar with the work of Iman Wilkens know that he proposes that Troy was in England and the Trojan War was fought on what are now called the Gogmagog Hills. I've written about this in my "Jupiter, Nostradamus and the Return of the Mongols" series. A few extracts:

In Genesis, we read:

10:1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
10:3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
10:4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Notice the remark about "isles of the Gentiles."

John van Seters, scholar of Ancient Near Eastern studies, proposes that much of the Bible was borrowed from ancient Greek historiography, myths and legends, blended with ancient Mesopotamian historiography, myths and legends. However, I hadn't read the work of Van Seters at the time I wrote the "Mongol" series.

Obviously, something was going on in the ancient world that has been recorded in the Bible as the "history of the Jews" (which wasn't), and later turned into "Holy Writ."

In the passage from Ezekiel we notice several of the "sons of Japheth" being named as places:

38:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal...

Then later, he mentions the land of Magog is in the same breath with "them that dwell carelessly in the isles..."

39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles...

Why should people in the "isles of the gentiles" be described as living carelessly? Is that "carelessly" as in "without cares," or is it carelessly as in not taking sufficient care in some way that led to an incident in which such carelessness became a "marker" for these people? Perhaps a famous blunder of some sort?

The only place on the planet that has been called Gog and Magog for any considerable length of time in our history is in England: the Gog Magog hills near Cambridge.

Curiously, crop circles appeared in a field near to these hills exactly two months before the September 11th attacks on New York.

Historians suggest that the Gog Magog hills got their name because of the innumerable human bones that have been found there; evidence of a battle so fierce that it reminded the locals of Ezekiel's passage about Gog, king of Magog.

The earliest reference to this name for these hills is in a decree of 1574 forbidding students to visit them or be fined. Nowadays, they are still a trysting area. A map dating from the end of the 16th century also depicts the Gogmagog Hills.

There is a small problem here, I think. How did the locals know about the prophecy of Ezekiel?

John Wycliff's hand-written manuscripts in the 1380s were the first complete Bibles in the English language. They were obviously not widely available.

William Tyndale printed the first English NEW Testament in 1525/6. One risked death by burning if caught in mere possession of the forbidden book. Only two complete copies of that first printing are known to have survived. Any Edition printed before 1570 is very rare, most of them were confiscated and burned.

Myles Coverdale and John Rogers, assistants to Tyndale, carried the project forward. The first complete English Bible was printed on October 4, 1535, and is known as the Coverdale Bible.

Considering this timeline, it seems questionable that the locals around the Gogmagog hills should have give such a new name to their hills, or that it would have become commonly known to everyone, such that a decree could be published in less than 40 years regarding same. Considering the fact that having or reading the Bible was a crime for most of those 40 years, it is not likely that the local people would have wanted to reveal their knowledge of the name in this way. One would also think that if ancient battle sites were subject to being renamed in this fashion after the release of the English Bible, many other ancient battle sites would have received Biblical names as well.

Even though there is no proof, it seems to be highly probable that the Gogmagog hills were called that from more ancient times, and for a different reason.

There are two figures of the giants Gog and Magog that strike the hours on a clock at Dunstan-n-the West, Fleet Street, but few people in London seem to know why they are there. Adrian Gilbert writes in his book, The New Jerusalem:

Once more we have to go back to Geoffrey of Monmouth's book, in which there is a story of how, when Brutus and his Trojans arrived in Britain, they found the island sparsley inhabited by a race of giants. One of these, called Gogmagog, wrestled with a Trojan hero called Corineus and was eventually thrown to his death from a cliff- top called in consequense 'Gogmagog's Leap'.

In the 1811 translation into English of Brut Tysilio, a Welsh version of the chronicles translated by the Rev. Peter Roberts, there is a footnote suggesting that Gogmagog is a corrupted form of Cawr-Madog, meaning 'Madog the great' or 'Madog the giant' in Welsh. It would appear that with Gog of Magog, the name of a war leader who the Bible prophesies will lead an invation of the Holy Land at the end of the age.

In another version of the Gogmagog tale, the Recuyell des histories de Troye, Gog and Magog are two seperate giants. In this story they are not killed but brought back as slaves by Brutus to his city of New Troy. Here there were to be employed as gatekeepers, opening and closing the great gates of the palace.

The story of Gog and Magog, the paired giants who worked the gates of London, was very popular in the middle ages and effigies of them were placed on the city gates at least as early as the reign of Henry VI. These were destroyed in the Great Fire of 1666, but so popular were they that new ones were made in 1708 and installed at the Guildhall. This pair of statues was destroyed in 1940 during the Blitz, the third great fire of London, when the roof and much of the interior furnishings of the Guildhall were burnt. A new pair of the statues was carved to replace them when the Guildhall was repaired after the war.

We should note that the dates of Henry VI are from well before the English Bible was available.

The prophecies of Ezekiel date from sometime around 695-690 BC, and we would like to consider the question as to where he heard the term "Gog, Magog" and what terrible battle was fought in the past that was used as a model for Ezekiel's prediction to which this name was attached?

As it happens, there are three terms often associated with archetypal battles: Armageddon, Gog Magog, and the Trojan War. Right away, we notice a homophonic similarity between Megiddo and Magog and it seems that we have a clear connection between Gog, Magog, Troy and Britain.

Those of you who have read Who Wrote the Bible might be interested to know that the untimely death of the hero - King Josiah - of the author of most of the Biblical texts - Jeremiah - died in the valley of Megiddo and that was the end of the story. Note also that this tale is actually a doublet of the story of the death of King Ahab who was of "The House of David."

Megiddo also features in the story of the deaths of the sons of Ahab found in II Kings, chapter 9. This chapter chronicles the death of Jezebel as well. The reason I mention these odd little semi-mythical connections is because I am persuaded that careful examination of Biblical texts compared to many other sources, including hard scientific ones, can assist us in forming at least a vague picture of our true history. Those stories did not come into existence in a vacuum and could not have been foisted on the people if there wasn't something in them of truth.

We now want to ask the question: Do these three wars, Armageddon, Gog Magog, and Troy have anything in common?

Now, let me come back to Tom Lethbridge and GogMagog. In this little book he chronicles his discovery of giant figures on a slope in the Wandlebury area. Serendipitously, he discovered that the figures he had found bore a strong relation to similar figures in India!!!

Tom Lethbridge said:
The figures appear to show a goddess, with a waning moon above her head, walking her tired horse up a ribbon of white. Behind her a figure waves a sword, but he seems to have been unable to stop her passage and has perhaps been wounded in the attempt. Before the goddess a huge round figure appears above her on the hillside, with rays streaming from his head. He must be the rising sun.

This is surely a remarkable coincidence, for is not this the same story as that of Siva destroying Andhaka in a moonlight festival?

The third figure, with his sword and shield, must be the demon of darkness, who has tried to stop the moonlight and been worsted by the sun. If this is right, then the goddess is the Celtic equivalent of Maha-devi, Siva's wife. ...

[Harold Bayley in his "Archaic England"] has no hesitation in lumping the Meg and mag names of stone circles, together with Magon and explaining her as the Grat Mother, the Great Earth Goddess and a source of fertility.

Once again the coincidence is too great. There are four Meg's or Mag's hills, each of them rounded, breast-like hills, within four miles of our goddess. The hills on which she lies are the Gogmagog Hills and she apparently has four breasts in the picture. She must be Magog. Just as Magog's name seems to have been applied to these breast-shaped hills here; so was that of the the Cailleach, a female deity, in western Scotland. There are two, close together, on either side of Broadford in Skye. They are the breasts of the Great Mother. At the same time, or so it seems to me, she must be Maha, Siva's wife and the sun god must be Gog. Of course, his Celtic name may have been Belenus, or Taranis, and she would certainly have been Diana in Roman times. But the local aboriginal inhabitants, overrun in turn by Celts, Belgae, Romans, Saxons, Norsemen and Normans, knew them by the ancient root-names, common over wide areas of the earth, as Gog and Ma-Gog. ...

Gog is the sun, the rolling, goggling, all-seeing eye, just as Siva is the shinging one. Ma Gog is the moon, under whose pale light the love-making took place and the children were born. The victory of these two light bringers over the power of darkness is what I think these figures symbolized. ...

The Helith figure at Cerne appears to be Gog too. He is Helith, synonym for Hercules; but Hercules is also Ogmius in Roman Gaul. If he is traced a little further afield, the Baal of Hiram, king of Tyre, was represented as Hercules. But Baal was a sun god and his Beltane ceremonies survived in Britain down to the eighteenth century. A doggerel rhyme names the Cerne Hercules as Beelzebub.

Gog and Magog seem to have been the Powers of Light, ... London paid great veneration to Gog and Magog. How Magog came to change her sex, we shall never know.

We seem to have stumbled on widespread evidence of the former worship of the powers of Light and the mythological representation of their war against the powers of Darkness. With the powers of light are also associated the emblems of fertility. Magon is the Great Mother, the Earth Goddess; together with the sun she renewed the seasons and dispelled the winter darkness. ...

The Gaulish Hercules was known as Ogmius, which appears to ve a variant of Gog. The Irish knew him as Ogma Sun-face and also Balor. ...

...the sun myth ... opening the Doors of Heaven after a triumph over the demon of darkness...

The horses... three ancient ones, Bratton, Uffington and Tysoe... Dr. Margaret Murray has drawn our attention to the story of Lady Godiva and the probable connection between her withe horse and the White Horse of Uffington. ...Uffa of Uffington is not derived from some unknown Anglo-Saxon landowner, but related to the Greek Ippos, a horse. Ippos itself is clearly related to the name of the north Gaulish horse goddess, Epona...

Lady Godiva was just taking the place of the goddess at some ritual procession at Coventry in honour of Epona

It was Gog-diva (not Godiva), the holy lady Gog. In other words the rider represented Ma Gog. ...

These ritual processions of nude women on white horses, riding out to confer benefits on the people, are closely related to the Kintyre tradiation. There the struggle with the demon of darkness was actually portrayed in mimic conflict. Godiva at Coventry was veiled in her hair; at Southam she was painted black. The ceremony would have ended in an unveiling, when the New Moon was then revealed. At Banbury she had bells on her toes to scare off the demon. Demons hate noise. That is what the bells are for. ...

Why do the Continental represeantation of Epona show her with a key in her hand? This is usually explained as being the key of the stables; but men do not pay great reverence to a goddess whose only power is to be able to unlock the stable door... they want something for themselves. Epona is holding the Key of Heaven, just as the Long Man of Wilmington appears to be opening the doors. ...

Whatever line of approach you take, you seem to end up at the same point. You appear to come up against traces of a belief, underlying all the little creeds of different tribal godlings, that the powers of light, typified by the sun and moon, waged a perpetual war against the powers of darkness. It was to aid the powers of light in their struggle, to assist the powers of productiveness if you like, that people re-enacted these myths year by year. ...

This must have been a creed that originated in a relatively high latitude. It cannot have been though out in India or Egypt, but in some land where winter and summer were clearly divided. It must have spread in many directions from some common centre where men had time to think things out. Somewhere, at LEAST four thousand years ago, men evolved a belief, which semed so obviously correct at the time that it was accepted wherever it was carried. Its spread must have been one of the great events in the history of the world. ...

Siva, in one of his aspects, is the destfoyer of life: Maha-devi, in her Kali aspect, is also a destroyer. Yet at the same time they are worshipped as the bringers of fertility. This is explained by the belief of their devotees in the transmigration of souls. Transmigration is not quite the same as reincarnation, for it includes the belief in man's rebirth as a lower animal. This belief is presumably the result of the mingling of the reincarnation belief with totemism. Death is just the gate to another bodily existence. But the one thing which made a great impression on many Roman writers, including Julius Caesar, was that the Druids believed also in the transmigration of souls. ...

It looks to me very much as if the transmigration belief is part and parcel of the other and that the Druids were, in fact, the priests of Gog and Magog.

There is much, much more in this little book. But the point I hope to have made is that, perhaps, these goddess symbols, these moon symbols, are conveying to us the message of the return of the god and goddess of light - Gog and Magog - to overcome the demon of darkness: Yahweh/Jehovah (speaking metaphorically here), and the half-moon symbol is, as described above, a representation of the New Moon, the return of the light, and the impending dawn?

In Ark's mathematical figure above, it should be noted, that the "events" occur in the little space between the horns and everything in the loop itself is infinity.


FOTCM Member
From this thread:

We have this post:

Laurel said:
There's a new crop circle today :clap::


This huge Celtic cross appeared in a field on Etchilhampton Hill in Wiltshire. The size is over eight tram lines in width and about twice as long in length _

Looks like we are about to hit the "crossroads."

I thought it was furiously interesting that France had some tornadoes right after the Sarkozy reorganization of the Army and his determination to go forward with his plans to align himself with Israel and the U.S.

Now, Poland has just signed the agreement to have the U.S. missile shield bases, and guess what? Yup, disastrous tornadoes.

This is interesting to me for a couple of reasons: 1) The C's mention of tornadoes in the very first session as being the markers of serious earth changes, and 2) the C's mention of 4th density battles between forces of light and darkness being manifested as weather.

I also had the idea that groups of people - nations, if you will - being "attractors" of different kinds of energy sort of like "contact potential difference."

The potential difference that exists across the space between two electrically connected materials. Also known as contact electromotive force; contact potential; Volta effect.

When a group, a place, or whatever, on the planet, becomes very negative, it attracts a balancing force. Kinda like the "Mark of the Beast."

I think the UK is in for a bad time rather soon. And maybe the rest of the world.

Here are a few bits and pieces from the Cs that may be related:

18 March 95

Q: (L) We would like to know what the Christian Cross
represents at a deeper level?
A: Part of the Lizzie disinformation campaign, sorry!
Q: (L) I thought that! Remember, the cross represents the
"death" which never occurred. (J) The reason we wanted to
ask that was because Brad wanted to know if the symbol had
anything to do with "Realm Border Crossing."
A: Cross is "cross" in English only.

12 July 97
Q: Okay, in this relief painting done by Berenger Sauniere in
the church at Rennes le Chateau, Mary Magdalene is depicted as
gazing hopefully or reverently at a tree branch formed into a cross,
stuck in the ground. What kind of tree is it?
A: The "tree of life."
Q: Well, I had a different idea... some people say it is an
acacia tree. Are you saying it is not a genus, horticulturally?
A: Genus is family tree.
Q: And what family is it a family tree for?
A: Check your Magna for lesson.
Q: My magna? What in the world? Okay, "blue apples:" Stones
A: Why not both?
Q: Okay! I can accept that! What was Berenger Sauniere
all those rocks for?
A: What about conductor?
Q: What do you mean?
A: What conducts.
Q: Was he building a little stonehenge?
A: Have you researched the power of stonehenge, and how it
where it fits in?
Q: Yes, we are bit by bit collecting things...
A: Well? And crop circles? Amazing connections... And what of
"The Rosy Cross?"

Speaking of "Rosy Cross"...

28 July 97
Q: Okay, let's get to some of these questions... let's do
some quick ones first. Would you comment on the fact that
RhoChi is a mirror image of ChiRho, as though Rosy Cross
were a mirror image of Christianity
... added to this the
fact that Dionysus, in the Titian painting, looks like he
is stepping out of a mirror... also, the mirrors that
showed up in the Etruscan book Ark sent, and the Well of
Hagar which turned out to be Beer-lahai-roi, or the "well
of the living mirror"... very funny things popping up after
you mentioned the word mirror last week! Could you
A: Better check the "leaflets..."
Q: Leaflet...? (T) Young leaf?
A: Patch of Zion.
Q: Okay, help me out here...
A: We are...
Q: Do you mean the 'budding olive tree?'
A: If you explore the caverns to which the wanderers go in
the sides of cliffs in order to seek refuge from deluge,
you will know...
Q: Obviously something will be discovered on this. I am
taking it as a clue to work on. Do you mean the caves all
along the cliffs on the Canary Islands where the Virgin
of Candelaria was found?
A: Yes. Page 33?

So, we have "leaflets" from a "tree" and "patch of Zion"... hmmm... well, that's odd. Could that be a play on words? What was the patch of Zion? Maybe the yellow armbands that the Nazis forced the Jews to wear with the Star of David on them? And that takes us back to this:

16 August 1997 (which just happens to be 11 years ago to the day)

Q: I noticed in Genesis Chapter 33, verse 11, it says that
Jacob, who wrestled with the angel the previous night and
was on his way to see his brother Esau, who he had tricked
into giving up his blessing years before, gave Esau the
blessing. What was this? The birthright from his father
or the blessing Jacob received from the angel?
A: Trampled leaves of wrath.
Q: This is what Jacob gave to Esau?
A: Yes, and what is the "core" meaning there?
Q: I don't know. What is the core meaning?
A: Leaves are of the Tree of Apples, from whence we get the
proverbial "grapes of wrath," the Blue Apples incarnate!
Q: Why are these leaves 'trampled?'
A: Removes chlorophyll.
Q: What is the significance of the chlorophyll?
A: When the chlorophyll dies, the autumnal equinox is at
Q: Did this signify something about the autumnal equinox?
A: Discover what the significance is, my Dear!
Q: Why did Jacob then deceive his brother again? He was to
travel and meet him in Edom, but then went in the other
direction as soon as Esau was on his way.
A: Refer to last answer, and cross reference.
Q: After wrestling with the 'angel,' Jacob was renamed
'Israel,' which means 'he will rule as a god.' This tends
to make me think that this angel whom Jacob seems to have
conjured, did something. What was this being that Jacob
wrestled with?
A: Elohim provides the conventional response.
Q: And you have told us about the Elohim.

And Elohim brings us back around to:

7 March 95
Q: (L) Well, okay. Who were the Elohim of the Bible?
A: Transdefinitive.
Q: (L) What does that mean? Transcends definition?
A: And variable entities.
Q: (L) Were the Elohim 'good guys?'
A: First manifestation was human, then non-human.
Q: (L) Are they light beings as some people say?
A: Vague.
Q: (L) Well, what brought about their transformation from
huma to non-human?
A: Pact or covenant.
Q: (L) They made a pact or covenant with each other?
A: No, with 4th density STS.
Q: (L) Well, that is not good! Are you saying that the
Elohim are STS? Who were these STS beings they made a
pact with?
A: Rosteem, now manifests as Rosicrucians.
Q: (L) What is their purpose?
A: As yet unrevealable to you.
Q: (L) That's heavy!

Then, this:
16 August 97
Q: Now, supposedly, this area, Giza, was originally called
Rostau. It took me awhile to realize that this is,
literally, Ros-Tau, or Rose-Cross.
A: Yet another connection, but why?
Q: Well, I don't know! Rostau! That was even before it was
called Giza. That is ANCIENT!
A: Yes.

4 Oct 97
Q: In reading the transcripts, I came across a reference to a
'pact' made by a group of STS individuals, and it was
called 'Rosteem,' and that this was the origin of the
Rosicrucians. In the book 'The Orion Mystery,' it talks
about the fact that Giza was formerlay known as RosTau,
which is 'Rose Cross.' Essentially, I would like to
understand the symbology of the Rose affixed to the Cross.
It seems to me that the imagery of Jesus nailed to the
Cross is actually the Rose affixed to the Cross. How does
Jesus relate to the Rose?
A: No, it is from the Rose arose the Cross.
Q: Oh.... I see...
A: Said the blind man.
Q: Elaborate, please. Are you saying that what I am seeing
is not correct?
A: No, mirth!
Q: It is from the Rose that the Cross arose... and,
therefore, the cross symbolizes...
A: Ask.
Q: What does the cross symbolize?
A: The symbology is not the issue. It is the effect.
Q: What is the effect of the cross?
A: All that has followed it.
Q: Could you list some of these to give me a clue?
A: You know these.
Q: In the same vein, I have noticed that there are two
classes of arachnids. There are scorpions and there are
spiders. The zodiac was changed by taking the pincers
away from the Scorpion and creating out of them the sign
of Libra. This image was one of a woman holding a balance
scales, usually blindfolded. This was done within
recorded history, but was probably formalized through the
occult traditions of Kaballa. Now, in trying to figure
out who has on what color hat, if there is such a thing, I
have come to a tentative conclusion that the spider, or
spinner of webs, is the Rosicrucian encampment, and that
the Scorpion represents the seeker of wisdom... because,
in fact, the word for Scorpio comes from the same root as
that which means to pierce or unveil. Therefore, the
Scorpion is also Perseus, per Ziu, or 'for God.' And the
Rosicrucians are the 'other,' so to speak. Can you
elaborate on this for me? Or comment?
A: What a tangled web we spin, when we must not let you in.
Q: So, the Rose is the Spider?
A: Different objective.
Q: So, the Rose, with its thorns... can you help me with this
Rose image... is the Rose the Scorpion?
A: No. Different objective... Rose is a stand alone symbol.
Q: So, the Rose can be used by either side, is that it?
A: Maybe.
Q: Another derivation of the word root of Scorpio is
'skopos,' or 'to see.' You said that the human race was
seeded on a planet in the constellation Scorpio, and,
therefore, when the zodiac was set up and the clues were
laid out, it seems to me that the insertion of the sign of
Libra was designed to take power away from human beings,
to take their hands away, to prevent them from seeing, to
make them defenseless. Is this imagery close?
A: On track.
Q: And the Scorpion is represented in four ways: the
scorpion, the lizard, the eagle and the dove. So, there
are four levels of experience. Also, Minerva/Athena was
the daughter of Zeus alone. She was known as the 'tamer
of horses,' and was a Virgin Goddess. She was also known
as 'Parthenos' meaning separation. Is this part of the
imagery of the creation of Eve from the rib of Adam, so to
speak, or the separation of knowledge from soul, or the
veil between the world of 3rd density and 4th density?
A: Close.
Q: Along this same line, in the astrological symbology, the
different stars are designated as being located on
different parts of the body in a rather arbitrary way that
does not seem to necessarily have a lot to do with the
actual configuration of the stars themselves. King
Cepheus in the sign of Aries, the consort of Cassiopaea,
has a star in the right shoulder. The name of this star
in Arabic means 'redeemer. In the imagery of the
crucifixion, Jesus is depicted as carrying the cross on
his shoulder as if to say that he is the old king who must
die to make way for the new one... Additionally, many of
us have been experiencing the pain in the shoulder, arm,
and shoulder-blade for some time. You have, on occasion,
related this to DNA changes. Is it that certain
individuals are connected to other densities through the
windows of the stars in certain constellations, and the
clues are found in the location of the stars in the
figures of the constellations relating to the areas of the
body where pockets in the etheric field are points of
activation of DNA, and that these relate to certain pains
and discomforts?
A: Okay.
Q: Is that okay as in I am onto something?
A: Maybe...
Q: Can you help me out a little here?
A: Too do so would compromise your discoveries.
Q: Is the Rose symbolic of Prime Creator and the Cross the
conflict between STS and STO?
A: No.
Q: Anything you CAN tell me?
A: You are so inquisitive, you will uncover all you seek,
even without us telling you directly.

22 Nov 97
Q: Well, I thought about the DNA, marrow, blood, hemoglobin,
magnetite, and the fact that blood is manufactured in the
marrow of the bones, and the symbolism of the skull and
crossbones which is also the symbol of the Rosie Cross,
and the image of the blood of the pelican - so it just
made me think that blood was important. Does blood have
something to do with this internal sound or does the sound
change the blood?
A: No more on this.

An then, there is this most interesting exchange that may relate since the "cross" is pretty much the frame of a "kite".

20 June 98

Q: What was the head worshipped by the Templars that was
supposed to have been called "Baphomet?"
A: Seer of the passage.
Q: What does that mean?
A: Remember, secrets of Knights Templar were kept in caves
guided by eternally burning lamps.
Q: Okay, next question, is this Ophiuchus, the serpent
holder, the same as what you have called 'the holder of
A: Close.
Q: I guess that I am going to just have to accept that as a
partial answer - why do I bother?! Okay, let me ask this,
these guys who have researched this Holy Bloodline
business have sort of focused all the attention on a
particular line, purportedly the line of Jesus going into
the Merovingian kings... This guy, Pierre Plantard, seems
to have more or less created a geneology with their own
validations... sort of like describing x in terms of y and
y in terms of x. Now, is this Pierre Plantard a genuine
carrier of the bloodline that we are concerned with?
A: Partially.
Q: Then, that makes me think that the significant thing that
we are looking for is a convergence of the blood lines...
These lines are symbolized by the god figures, the
children of Odin, and what we are looking for is a place
where these lines converge?
A: Yes.
Q: Well, what characteristics might an individual have who is
a product of this convergence?
A: Fair skinned and cleft chin.
Q: Well, Ark and Frank both have cleft chins, but Chloe and
I don't! Does this mean...
A: We aren't saying that all with these features are of that
blood line!
Q: So, you can have the bloodline and look quite different?
A: Yes.
Q: How many persons on the planet contain these 'convergant'
A: 7367. Kites were used for cross communication between bloodline
Q: Kites?! What do kites have to do with it? What the
heck... you guys are driving me NUTS! Do you mean kites
as in paper and string or kites as in the bird?
A: Yes, paper wood and string.
Q: (C) Like smoke signals? (L) Well, how is flying a kite...
(C) Well, if it has a certain symbol on it...
A: And shape.
Q: What shape is that?
A: No, not now.
Q: (C) Well, maybe the shape of a cleft chin? [Laughter] (L)
Fair skin, cleft chin... (C) Yeah, and how did they
communicate when it was raining? (L) Yeah, and at night?
Did they set them on fire? Kites. This is obviously
something that... (C) This is implying that such people
know they have the bloodline and keep in touch with each
other? (L) Or, is this something for the future when
those of the bloodline wake up?
A: Yes.
Q: All of the above? Or just the last part?
A: Latter.
Q: So, we need to go fly a kite... (C) With a particular
shape and symbol...
A: Research kites.
Q: (C) The Japanese fly kites... and there are a lot of
people who hang banners outside their houses all the
A: Want revelations? Prepare for "Treasure" Hunt.
Q: Thanks a lot!
A: These quests energize you, Laura!
Q: Yes, they do. When I start finding things that connect,
it is like having little explosions of energy in the
brain... (A) Well, I don't understand these kites. They
don't fly by themselves, they are on a string. You cannot
see them at great distances... only a few miles... what is
the point of communicating this way with someone who is
only a few miles away?
A: Kites can be released, or left behind too!
Q: (A) When you release a kite, it falls down! Well, maybe
we ought to wait and see where this clue goes before we
get stuck on the technical aspects. Maybe it is just sort
of a marker... We don't know if it will relate to a
literal kite, or a reference to a kite, a drawing of a
kite... a carving... something will appear that will
connect, I am sure. It always does.

Regarding kites, or "naked crosses", See:
Leonardo da Vinci's Inventions of Flight which includes portions of his The Kite and the Treatise upon the Flight of Birds where he wrote:

"This writing distinctly about the kite seems to be my destiny, because among the first recollections of my infancy, it seemed to me that, as I was in my cradle, a kite came to me and opened my mouth with its tail, and struck me several times with its tail inside my lips." (Codex Atlanticus)

The kite is a bird with a large wingspan, which uses air currents to stay aloft while gliding. He studied the kite and other birds, trying to learn how they flew so that he could successfully imitate nature. Little is known about da Vinci's private life, because he usually never wrote about it in his journal. However, this is an interesting exception because we see that Leonardo wrote that it was his destiny to write about and study the kite, and also means that he thought it was his destiny to build flying machines, and enable men to fly.

When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return. [Leonardo]

Then, of course, there is what Fulcanelli had to say about the cross which I remarked on in Secret History:

In the Hendaye chapter, [if Le Mystere des Cathedrales] there is a mysterious inscription on the cross that Fulcanelli discusses, pointing out that the important thing about it is that the letter S, “which takes on the curving shape of a snake, corresponds to the Greek khi (X) and takes over its esoteric meaning”. “It is the helicoidal track of the sun, having arrived at the zenith of its curve across space, at the time of the cyclic catastrophe. It is a theoretical image of the Beast of the Apocalypse, of the dragon, which on the days of Judgment, spews out fire and brimstone on macrocosmic creation.”

Fulcanelli then gives the clue: “Thanks to the symbolic value of the letter S, displaced on purpose, we understand that the inscription must be translated in secret language, that is to say in the language of the gods, or the language of the birds, and that the meaning must be found with the help of the rules of Diplomacy.”

Fulcanelli discussed the subject of the “double catastrophe” much earlier than the second edition of Le Mystere, in which the Hendaye chapter first appeared. In his book Dwellings of the Philosophers, he launches his remarks on the platform of a mysterious obelisk located in the Crecy forest, that he describes as, “the tangible, expressive image, absolutely conforming to tradition, of the double terrestrial calamity, of the conflagration and of the flood, on the terrible Judgment Day”.

This suggests to me that someone - perhaps it was Fulcanelli himself - realized that the true message of Dwellings of the Philosophers was not getting through, and that a new mode of drawing attention to it had to be discovered.

So, let me ask the reader a question to contemplate: why are all of Fulcanelli’s books dedicated to “The Brothers Heliopolis”, and how does that relate to a “Double Catastrophe”? As Fulcanelli says, “Nature does not open the door of the sanctuary indiscriminately to everyone.” [...]

Based on observation and research, it is apparent that humanity has now reached a great historical crossroads. We have come to the end of a two thousand year history of intolerance, cruelty and stupidity, which has created our present state of global, collective madness. Humanity, as a collective whole, is arriving at a state of Spiritual Bankruptcy, or “death”. And yet, we cannot assume that this is meaningless. Those who understand the principles of electricity will comprehend when I say that this present global estate is the way nature works and is the establishing of sufficient Contact Potential Difference for the inflow of energy of Cosmic Light. But just as it is in the case of the individual, when that point is reached - that Dark Night of the Soul - there is a “choice” that becomes apparent: the soul is offered the way “up” or the way “down”. In order for this coming inflow of energy to act in positive ways, to create a new reality of Free Will and Balance, there must be a point of contact that can conduct the energy. There must be human “micro-chips” or “circuits” sufficient to sustain this energy or all of humanity will perish. This means that only the development of human beings of a certain sort - with a certain “wiring”, so to say - will result in the global capacity to confront the energies of the Crossroads.

The only other Turning Point in history that can be compared with the present one is that of the “Great Flood”. And so, we come to the idea that the search for the Holy Grail and the alchemical work of distillation of the Philosopher’s Stone is ALSO the “building of an Ark” in order to pass over into the New World. [...]

What is the specific purpose of the Cassiopaean work? Let’s stop and consider that: At the beginning of World War I, Ouspensky’s speculated to Gurdjieff that the war was a consequence of life in the industrial age, wherein humans were becoming more “mechanized” and had stopped thinking for themselves because they had things too easy. Gurdjieff replied:

“There is another kind of mechanization which is much more dangerous: being a machine oneself. Have you ever thought about the fact that all people themselves are machines? ...Look, all those people you see are simply machines - nothing more. ...You think there is something that chooses its own path, something that can stand against mechanization; you think that not everything is equally mechanical.”

At this point, Ouspensky raised what would seem to be a most logical objection:

“Why of course not! ...Art, poetry, thought, are phenomena of quite a different order.”

Gurdjieff replied:

“Of exactly the same order. These activities are just as mechanical as everything else. Men are machines and nothing but mechanical actions can be expected of machines.”

He then continued:

“(Western civilization) armed with ‘exact knowledge’ and all the latest methods of investigation, has no chance whatever and is moving in a circle from which there is no escape.”

“That is because people believe in progress and culture. There is no progress whatever. Everything is just the same as it was thousands, and tens of thousands, of years ago. The outward form changes. The essence does not change. Man remains just the same. ‘Civilized’ and ‘cultured’ people live with exactly the same interests as the most ignorant savages. Modern civilization is based on violence and slavery and fine words.”

“...What do you expect? People are machines. Machines have to be blind and unconscious, they cannot be otherwise, and all their actions have to correspond to their nature. Everything happens. No one does anything. ‘Progress’ and ‘civilization’, in the real meaning of these words, can appear only as the result of conscious efforts. They cannot appear as the result of unconscious mechanical actions. And what conscious effort can there be in machines? And if one machine is unconscious, then a hundred machines are unconscious, and so are a thousand machines, or a hundred thousand, or a million. And the unconscious activity of a million machines must necessarily result in destruction and extermination.”

“It is precisely in unconscious involuntary manifestations that all evil lies. You do not yet understand and cannot imagine all the results of this evil. But the time will come when you will understand.”

Again we note: Gurdjieff was speaking at the beginning of the First World War, in the opening rounds of a century of unprecedented warfare. And now, almost a hundred years later, humanity is on the edge of a precipice and no one knows what feather will plunge us all into the abyss.

Wilhelm Reich wrote about the same problems that concerned Gurdjieff and Ouspensky:

Why did man, through thousands of years, wherever he built scientific, philosophic, or religious systems, go astray with such persistence and with such catastrophic consequences? […]

Is human erring necessary? Is it rational? Is all error rationally explainable and necessary? If we examine the sources of human error, we find that they fall into several groups:

Gaps in the knowledge of nature form a wide sector of human erring. Medical errors prior to the knowledge of anatomy and infectious diseases were necessary errors. But we must ask if the mortal threat to the first investigators of animal anatomy was a necessary error too.

The belief that the earth was fixed in space was a necessary error, rooted in the ignorance of natural laws. But was it an equally necessary error to burn Giordano Bruno at the stake and to incarcerate Galileo?[…]

We understand that human thinking can penetrate only to a given limit at a given time. What we fail to understand is why the human intellect does not stop at this point and say: “this is the present limit of my understanding. Let us wait until new vistas open up.” This would be rational, comprehensible, purposeful thinking. [...]

What amazes us is the sudden turn from the rational beginning to the irrational illusion. Irrationality and illusion are revealed by the intolerance and cruelty with which they are expressed. We observe that human thought systems show tolerance as long as they adhere to reality. The more the thought process is removed from reality, the more intolerance and cruelty are needed to guarantee its continued existence.

Who or what is responsible for this state of mankind is a major issue, most particularly if we assume a benevolent God and a hierarchy of benevolent beings guiding the destiny of mankind. Gurdjieff commented on this in the following way (edited for clarity):

“We must remember that the ray of creation... is like a branch of a tree. ... Growth depends on organic life on earth. ...If organic life is arrested in its development, in its evolution, and fails to respond to the demands made upon it, the branch may wither. This must be remembered.”

“To this ray of creation, exactly the same possibility of development and growth has been given as is given to each separate branch of a big tree. But the accomplishment of this growth is not at all guaranteed. It depends upon the harmonious and right action of its own tissues.”

Organic life on earth is a complex phenomenon in which the separate parts depend upon one another. General growth is possible only on the condition that the ‘end of the branch’ grows. Or, speaking more precisely, there are in organic life tissues which are evolving, and there are tissues which serve as food and medium for those which are evolving. Then there are evolving cells within the evolving tissues, and cells which serve as food and medium for those which are evolving. In each separate evolving cell there are evolving parts and there are parts which serve as food for those which are evolving. But always and in everything it must be remembered that evolution is never guaranteed, it is possible only and it can stop at any moment and in any place.”

“The evolving part of organic life on earth is humanity. If humanity does not evolve it means that the evolution of organic life will stop and this, in its turn will cause the growth of our ray of creation to stop.”

“At the same time if humanity ceases to evolve it becomes useless from the point of view of the aims for which it was created and as such it may be destroyed. In this way the cessation of evolution may mean the destruction of humanity.”

“We have no clues from which we are able to tell in what period of planetary evolution we exist. We cannot know this but we should bear in mind that the number of possibilities is never infinite.”

“At the same time in examining the life of humanity as we know it historically we are bound to acknowledge that humanity is moving in a circle. It one century it destroys everything it creates in another and the progress in mechanical things of the past hundred years has proceeded at the cost of losing many other things which perhaps were much more important for it.”

“Speaking in general there is every reason to think and to assert that humanity is at a standstill, and from a standstill there is a straight path to downfall and degeneration.”

“A standstill means that a process has become balanced. The appearance of any one quality immediately evokes the appearance of another quality opposed to it. The growth of knowledge in one domain evokes the growth of ignorance in another; refinement on the one hand evokes vulgarity on the other; freedom in one connection evokes slavery in another; the disappearance of some superstitions evokes the appearance and growth of others; and so on.”

“A balanced process proceeding in a certain way cannot be changed at any moment it is desired. It can be changed and set on a new path only at certain ‘crossroads’. In between the crossroads nothing can be done.”

“At the same time if a process passes by a crossroad and nothing happens, nothing is done, then nothing can be done afterwards and the process will continue and develop according to mechanical laws; and even if the people taking part in this process foresee the inevitable destruction of everything, they will be unable to do anything.”

“I repeat that something can be done only at certain moments which I have just called ‘crossroads’ and which in octaves, we have called the ‘intervals’.”

“The process of evolution, of that evolution which is possible for humanity as a whole, is completely analogous to the process of evolution possible for the individual man. And it begins with the same thing, namely, a certain group of cells gradually becomes conscious; then it attracts to itself other cells, subordinates others, and gradually makes the whole organism serve its aims and not merely eat, drink and sleep.”

“In humanity as in individual man everything begins with the formation of a conscious nucleus. All the mechanical forces of life fight against the formation of this conscious nucleus in humanity, in just the same way as all mechanical habits, tastes, and weaknesses fight against conscious awareness in man.”

“Can it be said that there is a conscious force which fights against the evolution of humanity?”, Ouspensky asked.

“From a certain point of view it can be said”, said G.

“Where can this force come from?”, Ouspensky asked.

“There are two processes which are sometimes called ‘involutionary’ and ‘evolutionary’. The difference between them is the following: An involutionary process begins consciously in the absolute but at the next step it already becomes mechanical - and it becomes more and more mechanical as it develops; an evolutionary process begins half-consciously but it becomes more and more conscious as it develops.”

“But consciousness and conscious opposition to the evolutionary process can also appear at certain moments in the involutionary process.”

“From where does this consciousness come?”

“From the evolutionary process of course. The evolutionary process must proceed without interruption. Any stop causes a separation from the fundamental process. Such separate fragments of consciousnesses which have been stopped in their development can also unite and at any rate for a certain time can live by struggling against the evolutionary process. After all, it merely makes the evolutionary process more interesting.”

“Instead of struggling against mechanical forces there may, at certain moments, be a struggle against the intentional opposition of fairly powerful forces though they are not of course comparable with those which direct the evolutionary process.”

“These opposing forces may somethimes even conquer.”

“The reason for this consists in the fact that the forces guiding evolution have a more limited choice of means; in other words, they can only make use of certain means and certain methods. The opposing forces are not limited in their choice of means and they are able to make use of every means, even those which only give rise to a temporary success, and in the final result they destory both evolution and involution at the point in question.”

“Are we able to say for instance that life is governed by a group of conscious people? Where are they? Who are they?”

“We see exactly the opposite: that life is governed by those who are the least conscious, by those who are most asleep.”

“Are we able to say that we observe in life a preponderance of the best, the strongest, and the most courageous elements?”

“Nothing of the sort. On the contrary we see a preponderance of vulgarity and stupidity of all kinds.”

“Are we able to say that aspirations towards unity, towards unification, can be observed in life?”

“Nothing of the kind of course. We only see new divisions, new hostility, new misunderstanndings.”

“So that in the actual situation of humanity there is nothing that points to evolution proceeding.”

“On the contrary, when we compare humanity with a man we quite clearly see a growth of personality at the cost of essence, that is, a growth of the artificial, the unreal, and what is foreign, at the cost of the natural, the real, and what is one’s own.”

“Together with this we see a growth of automatism.”

“Contemporary culture requires automatons. And people are undoubtedly losing their acquired habits of independence and turning into automatons, into parts of machines.”

“It is impossible to say where is the end of all this and where the way out - or whether there is an end and a way out. One thing alone is certain, that man’s slavery grows and increases. Man is becoming a willing slave. He no longer needs chains. He begins to grow fond of his slavery, to be proud of it. And this is the most terrible thing that can happen to a man.”

Carlos Castaneda puts the problem another way in the words of don Juan:

“You have arrived, by your effort alone, to what the shamans of ancient Mexico called the topic of topics. I have been beating around the bush all this time, insinuating to you that something is holding us prisoner. Indeed we are held prisoner! This was an energetic fact for the sorcerers of ancient Mexico. [...] They took over because we are food for them, and they squeeze us mercilessly because we are their sustenance. Just as we rear chickens in chicken coops, the predators rear us in human coops. Therefore, their food is always available to them.”[...]

“I want to appeal to your analytical mind,” don Juan said. “Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer and the stupidity of his systems of beliefs, or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior. Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal.”[...]

“In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver - stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators' mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.” [...]

“Through the mind, which, after all, is their mind, the predators inject into the lives of human beings whatever is convenient for them.”

This, of course, takes us to Gurdjieff’s story of the Evil Magician which we have already discussed. We should pay particular attention to this remark made by Gurdjieff:

The evolving part of organic life on earth is humanity. If humanity does not evolve it means that the evolution of organic life will stop and this, in its turn will cause the growth of our ray of creation to stop.
At the same time if humanity ceases to evolve it becomes useless from the point of view of the aims for which it was created and as such it may be destroyed. In this way the cessation of evolution may mean the destruction of humanity.

In short, based on an objective assessment of the world around us, we are in deep trouble. In another place, Gurdjieff makes a rather spooky remark:

“There is a definite period”, he said, “for a certain thing to be done. If, by a certain time, what ought to be done has not been done, the earth may perish without having attained what it could have attained.”

“Is this period known?”, I asked.

“It is known”, said G. “But it would be no advantage whatever for people to know it. It would even be worse. Some would believe it, others would not believe it, yet others would demand proofs. Afterwards they would begin to break one another’s heads. Everything ends this way with people.”

Gurdjieff gave other hints about this, though I expect that he didn’t fully know the details since his own work was that of one who prepares the ground and plants the seeds that are crucial to us now when considering the Cassiopaean “Mission”. In this passage, Gurdjieff returns again to the subject of evolution which, as he pointed out, has stopped in humanity.

“Everything I have said till now I have said about the whole of humanity. But as I pointed out before, the evolution of humanity can proceed only through the evolution of a certain group, which, in its turn, will influence and lead the rest of humanity.”

“Are we able to say that such a group exists? Perhaps we can on the basis of certain signs, but in any event we have to acknowledge that it is a very small group, quite insufficient, at any rate, to subjugate the rest of humanity. Or, looking at it from another point of view, we can say that humanity is in such a state that it is unable to accept the guidance of a conscious group.”

“How many people could there be in this conscious group?”, someone asked.

“Only they themselves know this”, said G.

“Does it mean that they all know each other?”, asked the same person again.

“How could it be otherwise?”, asked G.

“Imagine that there are two or three people who are awake in the midst of a multitude of sleeping people. They will certainly know each other. But those who are asleep cannot know them. How many are they? We do not know and we cannot know until we become like them.”

“It has been clearly said before that each man can only see on the level of his own being. But two hundred conscious people, if they existed and if they found it necessary and legitimate, could change the whole of life on the earth. But either there are not enough of them, or they do not want to, or perhaps the time has not yet come, or perhaps other people are sleeping too soundly.”

So, all of these things seem to point to this cross crop circle being a significant sign...


Dagobah Resident
There is a quoting glitch after

"He then continued:"

On my computer (using FireFox), the box is mostly empty with a funny character icon in it.



FOTCM Member
bedower said:
Yes, the same box is empty on my screen also.

Had a dangling quote code...

Meanwhile, I added a couple more excerpts to the above, and now think I'll include an unpublished session that may add something to the topic.

2 Feb 2003

Q: ... One of the questions we would like to clear up is the issue of the Holy Grail and the Ark. Is the Ark of the covenant - the ark thing given to the early pre-Mosaic Jews that you have described previously - the same as the Holy Grail?
A: No.
Q: (L) So there are two completely different technologies?
A: If you wish to term it such.
Q: (L) Why did they answer the question that way? What is the distinguishing thing between them? (A) Maybe 'as such' refers to the fact that you termed it 'technology.' Maybe this is not quite the correct term. Technology can be part of it, but maybe not the most important part. (H) Is one an STS tool and the other an STO tool?
A: Yes and no.
Q: (H) Thanks guys! That's real clear!
A: This is an issue that will clarify itself soon enough.
Q: (L) Is my idea correct that we can identify the presence of these more-or-less technologies by the architecture or art or megalithic structures of the different groups on the planet?
A: To some extent, yes. But do not let that be the only clue. You might consider "lifestyle" as well as the presence and uses of metals; particularly gold vs. iron.
Q: (L) So, we have a whole different set of clues to look at here. Alrighty then! Was what we are calling the Ark of the Covenant at Baalbek?
A: No. But there were certainly those who had advanced knowledge.
Q: (L) I hate it when they do that: blow my theory to bits. Was there a "grail faction" and an "ark faction?"
A: Pretty much.
Q: (L) Was Baalbek built by the Ark Faction or the Grail Faction?
A: It was Ark Faction.
Q: (H) Well, we got that part right. (L) Once before we discussed Nefertiti and Sarah being one and the same person. We have now been discussing the idea, based on some significant clues in ancient documents, that this individual was also Helen of Troy. Is this, in fact, a useful idea to follow? Is it a correct assessment of the clues?
A: Indeed!
Q: (L) That would mean that, according to the story, that Paris/Alexander would be the same individual as Abraham and that Herodotus' story of Paris and Helen sojourning in Egypt was true?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) We have the brother issue to deal with. We have Abraham and his nephew, Lot. Then we have Moses and Aaron, Jacob and Esau, Isaac and Ishmael. Were all of these sets of brothers just different aspects or views on the same stories, a set of singular individuals, whether brothers or not?
A: Pretty much though with added elements from other stories blended in.
Q: (L) Was it a brother/brother relationship as in actual brothers?
A: No. The "brother" relationship was created to legitimize a "false" line of transmission.
Q: (L) So there wasn't a brother, or Aaronic relationship present, assuming any part of that story was true. Is that it?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) One aspect of the variation on the story was that Jacob gave his brother, Esau, the 'blessing' and some 'gift.' Does this reflect an accurate part of the story that Moses, in his form as Jacob, passed something on to someone else - something that was important?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Was it Moses/Abraham who was doing this?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Who did he pass it on to?
A: It was finally understood by "Moses" that the danger of the object was greater than the ability of descendants to resist corruption. He handed it over to those who had created it.
Q: (H) Was it STS or STO forces that created it?
Q: (H) So, the Ark was an object created by STS. Did this amount to some sort of realization on Moses' part? Did he start to wake up?
A: Yes. The story of the "contending with the angel" was the significant turning point as well as the moment of return.
Q: (L) What was the blessing he gave to "Esau", if giving the object to the "angel" was the event of returning the ark? What was the story there?
A: Two separate events.
Q: (L) So, he returned the ark to the so-called angel. And then, he gave something to someone else. Previously, when I asked about this, you said that what he gave to Esau was "trampled leaves of wrath, the blue apples incarnate," and remarked that I should inquire into the "core meaning."
A: And who was "Kore?"
Q: (L) Was this Abraham's daughter?
A: It was the last living member of the Perseid family.
Q: (L) Was it a male or female?
A: Female.
Q: (L) And how did Abraham come to be in possession of this female?
A: Search the text and you will see.
Q: (H) If this person was the last member of the Perseid family, does that mean that Paris/Abraham was a member of this family?
A: No.
Q: (L) Was this person someone who was part of Abraham's group because he kidnapped her?
A: That is going in the right direction, though not quite that simple.
Q: (H) They are saying that this was a female who was kidnapped? Could it be Helen?
A: No!
Q: (L) Previously we were told that Helen was a genetically tweaked Hittite. Were her parents anybody who would be familiar to us outside of mythology?
A: No.
Q: (L) So her parentage was strictly mythical. Was she a member of any esteemed family or royal family along that line as has been claimed?
A: Here also you will make a discovery.

I've made a number of discoveries about all this, but ya'll will have to wait for my book on Moses to get the whole scoop... believe me, it's humdinger!

Q: (L) Going back to this person - the last living member of the Perseid family - who was handed over by Abraham in his Jacob persona to someone else, who was this person handed over to and why?
A: For protection from the fury of "Helen."
Q: (L) So, there is a reflection of that in the story of Hagar the Egyptian. Who was she handed over to?
A: The "Dragon Slayers."
Q: (L) You mentioned before that Helen/Nefertiti/Sarah was locked up by Akhenaten. Why, specifically, was she locked up?
A: He became unable to function and the action was taken by others.
Q: (L) Did Akhenaten go mad as I have surmised?
A: Pretty much.
Q: (L) Did he fall in the Nile and get eaten by a crocodile as the story about one pharaoh suggests?
A: No Crocodile.
Q: So, he just fell in and drowned?
A: More like he was "helped."
Q: (L) Sounds to me like this poor guy was just a patsy all around.
A: Yup.
Q: The story about the plague that is told in Manetho, was this a plague as in leprosy, a disease, or something else?
A: It was multiple elements including leprosy.
Q: (L) What were these different elements?
A: Consider the writings about cometary showers.
Q: (L) Was any of this radiation sickness from being around the ark as we have surmised?
A: Not so much since it was kept contained.
Q: (L) Did Helen/Nefertit/Sarah get some sort of sickness that contributed to the necessity of locking her up?
A: No, in fact it was the fact that she did not get sick that made her the object of suspicion.
Q: (L) So, she didn't get leprosy. That means that Miriam was not part of the Helen/Nefertiti/Sarah element, is that it?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Was Helen from Argo?
A: No.
Q: (L) Was someone from Argo?
A: Yes.
Q: [Laughter.] (L) Well, I mean involved in this particular story.
A: Oh, indeed, and that may be an important clue!
Q: (L) In reading the texts, we read about the Libyans and Ethiopians and it seems that anybody who didn't live in the Delta was called either a Libyan or an Ethiopian. Who were these so-called Libyan/Ethiopians, who lived in Egypt and other areas of North Africa, and where did they come from?
A: Various identities at various times.
Q: (L) So, these were names applied to different peoples at different times and we would have to ask specific questions about specific groups at specific times to narrow it down. Who were the so-called "Libyans" of the Exodus of 2676 BC, recorded as a Libyan rebellion by Manetho?
A: Sumerian and Aryan mix.
Q: Did this group end up in Crete?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) You said on previous occasions that the pyramids in Egypt - that is, the Great Pyramid at Giza and its companions - were built by Atlantean descendants. We would like to know which precise group of Atlantean descendants built these specific pyramids?
A: Leave this one until you have connected more dots.
Q: (L) Is it going to surprise us?
A: No doubt!
Q: (H) Is the importance of Argos related to the myth of Jason and the Argonauts?
A: Yup.
Q: (H) Does it have something to do with the individuals who flew away on the Ram?
A: Mmmmm .... And did she really drown?

Keeping in mind the distorted story of Abraham's attempted sacrifice of Isaac and the Ram in the thicket...

Q: (H) Is it a significant fact that this girl's name was similar to Helen of Troy?
A: Could be a clue. All those stories of escape from confinement and flying and cataclysm...? Who was imprisoned? Why? Good night.
Q: (H) Stories of escape - there's the story of Daedalus and Icarus... We have Colchis, Jason, the argonauts. We have the last living member of the Perseid family... all mixed up with Abraham and Sarah otherwise known as Paris and Helen who was also Nefertiti. (L) And Abraham wanted to save this individual from the fury of Helen. (S) And why was Helen furious? What happened when Helen got furious? (H) A thousand ships got launched... (L) And a lot of people died and have been dying ever since from this whole monotheistic rant. And it looks like Helen/Nefertiti/Sarah is the main source of the whole deal. A Hittite hybrid with a big skull like those heads of the Ica in Peru. And the C's have said that there were hybrids in Peru that were supposed to have been attempts to create a 3rd density body for direct STS incarnation. And it looks like Sarah/Helen/Nefertiti was one of them. No wonder women have been given a bad name. We have our work cut out for us.

Anyway, just thought I'd toss this in there...


Jedi Master
Laura, re your last new excerpts from the transcripts.

In the myths, Kore was also Persephone, was kidnapped by Dis/(Typhon?). Her mother was the Corn Goddess Demeter (Ceres?) who, grieving for her daughter, refused/denied/forbade any new crops to grow. Eventually Dis agreed to allow Kore to visit her mother for 6 months in every year, which gave the Earth summer and winter.

Is this story connected in any way to the Kore mentioned in the transcripts?

Windmill knight

FOTCM Member
Q: (L) Is my idea correct that we can identify the presence of these more-or-less technologies by the architecture or art or megalithic structures of the different groups on the planet?
A: To some extent, yes. But do not let that be the only clue. You might consider "lifestyle" as well as the presence and uses of metals; particularly gold vs. iron.

This might be a rather simplistic observation, but this suggests American cultures (Incan, Mayan, etc) as opposed to the rest. These cultures used gold but no iron. The ark faction vs the grail faction may also fit with this and the God vs Goddess religions; pyramids vs circles, etc. Which is also related to:

(L) And a lot of people died and have been dying ever since from this whole monotheistic rant. And it looks like Helen/Nefertiti/Sarah is the main source of the whole deal. A Hittite hybrid with a big skull like those heads of the Ica in Peru. And the C's have said that there were hybrids in Peru that were supposed to have been attempts to create a 3rd density body for direct STS incarnation.

Thanks for sharing these sessions, Laura.


FOTCM Member
apeguia said:
Q: (L) Is my idea correct that we can identify the presence of these more-or-less technologies by the architecture or art or megalithic structures of the different groups on the planet?
A: To some extent, yes. But do not let that be the only clue. You might consider "lifestyle" as well as the presence and uses of metals; particularly gold vs. iron.

This might be a rather simplistic observation, but this suggests American cultures (Incan, Mayan, etc) as opposed to the rest. These cultures used gold but no iron. The ark faction vs the grail faction may also fit with this and the God vs Goddess religions; pyramids vs circles, etc. Which is also related to:

(L) And a lot of people died and have been dying ever since from this whole monotheistic rant. And it looks like Helen/Nefertiti/Sarah is the main source of the whole deal. A Hittite hybrid with a big skull like those heads of the Ica in Peru. And the C's have said that there were hybrids in Peru that were supposed to have been attempts to create a 3rd density body for direct STS incarnation.

Thanks for sharing these sessions, Laura.

I second that, thank you Laura. It is always very interesting to see what new clues the C's have given you.

Apeguia, good thinking.

When I think of the Inca, Aztec and Mayan lifestyles, I think of the competitions, pyramids, sacrifices, self-mutilation, and yes they used gold.

And when I think of the use of iron, I remember that this was something that fairies and elves could not stand the touch of in folklore. And if we think of the elves and fairies of folklore, it has been said that they are the same as aliens and demons in other periods.

My 2 cents. :)
Laura said:
16 August 97
Q: Now, supposedly, this area, Giza, was originally called
Rostau. It took me awhile to realize that this is,
literally, Ros-Tau, or Rose-Cross.
A: Yet another connection, but why?
Q: Well, I don't know! Rostau! That was even before it was
called Giza. That is ANCIENT!
A: Yes.

Rostau sounds like Rostov. Is there any connection to Rostov or Rostov-na-donu in Russia?

Windmill knight

FOTCM Member
Nienna Eluch said:
When I think of the Inca, Aztec and Mayan lifestyles, I think of the competitions, pyramids, sacrifices, self-mutilation, and yes they used gold.

And when I think of the use of iron, I remember that this was something that fairies and elves could not stand the touch of in folklore. And if we think of the elves and fairies of folklore, it has been said that they are the same as aliens and demons in other periods.

Oh! I had forgot about iron and the fairies. Thanks!

And on the other hand, gold was mentioned by the Cs to be used for 4D technology.


Jedi Master

I haven't read 'Secret History'. When I tried to order a copy through the AUC bookshop, I was told it was 'unavailable', so I'll have to wait until someone I trust goes to England to try and get me a copy there. The only bits of it I know are the snippets and hints gathered from the Forum, but yes, I would dearly love to read it.

Apologies if my post about Kore was something you already knew and had taken into account.


A Disturbance in the Force
Hi bedower, have you tried ordering it through or - both sites have global distributors and should be able to get it to you quickly.

bedower said:

I haven't read 'Secret History'. When I tried to order a copy through the AUC bookshop, I was told it was 'unavailable', so I'll have to wait until someone I trust goes to England to try and get me a copy there. The only bits of it I know are the snippets and hints gathered from the Forum, but yes, I would dearly love to read it.

Apologies if my post about Kore was something you already knew and had taken into account.

jake tassell

The Force is Strong With This One
I don't know if anyone has seen the pics of the Yatesbury "diamond" crop-circle. It reminded me of the following...

Session: 941107

Q: What is the "philosopher's stone?"
A: Idea centre.
Q: How can this idea centre be accessed?
A: Many ways: meditation is best.
Q: Is there any visual image of the philosopher's stone that one could use to access it in meditation?
A: Yes. Diamond or prism.
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