Real Direct 4D STO Contact?

Alejo

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Another thought just occurred to me,

You see, the main issue with this is that we're arguing over a detail that can be interpreted in many different ways. Can they be STO? and where's the evidence for yes or no. All based on the possibility that preventing nuclear war may or may not be STO. I think we can argue this point for years from several different angles.

But the knowledge that seems to be missing in their message, that I would think they would be aware of, is the fact that life is lessons and there's a cyclical experiential school that souls must go through individually and collectively. When one takes that factor into consideration, it's a lot easier to understand the experience of life on earth as part of such a lesson plan if you will.

Perhaps, it's not the world that needs to be changed, or their potential overlords, perhaps this reality will always be what it is, think of it as an intensive 300k year course on "Life on a 3D STS planet". The students might move on, once they learn how to do so, but the course will remain for those who choose to take it.

Impeding, or trying to convince someone, that being in the course is wrong or that it was a mistake, is counter productive to the student, wouldn't you say? although that in itself might be part of the course itself, but I digress. I think it's as counter productive as a 4th grade student trying to convince the 3rd grade student that he and his friends disagree with he way the school administration is handling his 3rd grade classes.

He may be successful at convincing the 3rd grade student of a new way of handling the classes on 3rd grade and kick the teachers out, but the 3rd grade student will miss his 3rd grade classes and not learn. Or be given brand new teachers that will make the displease 4th grader happy.

The reason I call them activists is because that's the tone I get from them, like activists that disagree with how some people consume animals because it displeases them, so they go and protests and try to educate children into becoming vegetarian. The motive is what defines the orientation of their seemingly compassionate actions. They're doing it for themselves, using words like liberation and compassion, they're actually attempting to change reality to reflect their wishes instead of seeing reality as it is.

Going back to this group, and assuming that they are sincere in the narrative they're presenting, the knowledge, or lack there of, visible in their motive, indicates to me that they are acting on their own behalf because it displeases them. That to me settles the question of the STO or STS nature of the communication.

The communication may be completely real, and the entities may be just as real, but they seem to be here to serve themselves.

I hope the above made sense.
 

axj

Dagobah Resident
Well, If I disagree with the way you are handling something and decide to do anything about it, I am doing it so that things may go my way... to serve myself and my vision of how I want things to go.

Disagreeing with someone and doing things your own way does not necessarily mean you are self-serving.

No consideration for the fact that perhaps, it is part of the lesson chosen by humanity to inhabit this 3D earth in these exact conditions, getting us out of here would work against our choices. Does that make sense?

Again, according to them there are limits on free will decisions that the Federation imposes anyway, such as not allowing an all-out nuclear war. And the Federation is allegedly involved in steering the Earth cabal in certain directions - which is what others within the Federation view as wrong. Determining humanity's free will decisions and respecting them seems to be a highly complex topic, if their words are to be believed.

You see, the main issue with this is that we're arguing over a detail that can be interpreted in many different ways. Can they be STO? and where's the evidence for yes or no. All based on the possibility that preventing nuclear war may or may not be STO. I think we can argue this point for years from several different angles.

Preventing nuclear war is supposedly the "official" stance of the Federation and the Pleiadeans are not against that. If you think that preventing nuclear war is not STO, then this applies to the Federation as a whole as it is portrayed by this group.
 

irjO

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
It may be the case that neither 4D STO nor 4D STS want an all-out nuclear war on Earth. Maybe that is why the C's said with certainty that there won't be one.
I think you should read the entire waves series, maybe that will help you understand many aspects we mentioned before. In this case STO doesn’t “want” or “desire” something, that’s purely STS thinking. They don’t “fight” either like we think in our concept of what we know about a wars. The war mentioned by them in the past transcripts It’s more like a balance thing from the universe itself.
For example: When they “win” a war is because more entities were inclined into the STO frequency than the ones inclined into the STS, but not because they fought in a battle, or had a war like you see in Star Wars or something like that, is more because the entities or humans themselves decided to learn and act a little more into that side and they (the STO beings) may or may not assisted them in the learning. OSIT.

See, the real battle is within ourselves, the knowledge will get us more free will which allows us decide which side we want to be in when the transition happens.
I believe casssiopeans appeared in Laura’s life not because she cried for help to be saved but because she wanted answers, she asked for help to get answers.
Thing is, I’m not going to put my hand in the fire and say this galactic confederation is fake entirely, I won’t say otherwise either, maybe they send real STO messages, perhaps mixed with some lies, even the Cs had some corrupt messages in the past because of the people that were present in those sessions which affected the outcome of the message!
Just for curiosity: It will help you in any way to validate that source?
 

jhonny

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
From what the C's have said, 6D is quite different from 4D. One of the major differences is that STS does not even exist as such in 6D. 4D is just "one level above" 3D and as such I think it is possible or even likely that disagreements exist between different 4D STO races across the galaxy.
I rather prefer to think in terms of 3D STS, which is our realm. I'll give yo a clearer example; speaking of the 4th way, specifically the esoteric circles, Gurdjieff said: when members of the group have achieved a breakthrough in the work, i.e. getting to the inner circle, they must be working towards the same goal and there should be no disagreements between them with regard to the main goals. Now, in higher realms (4D STO) we cannot say for sure how things are handled.
 

Madara Horseman

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Really, I hope I don't sound cheesy or anything, but (without any of the possible hubris..) what if we are the help.. WE are the students in this material realm after all, not the fully or semi-ethereal beings we may hope to meet, even if the chaos, the lessons and uncertainty are beyond our current understanding, admittedly.

What if we have been called in thoughts, dreams, etc. and we did not answer the phone and have thus wasted some of the messages? Did we overstretch ourselves insanely beyond the limits of what is humanly impossible in terms of learning and applying oriented efforts? As weird as it sounds, all of this allows me to water my own garden first when I remember it.
 

WIN 52

The Living Force
And touché, look at the COVID issue, people are ready to kill one another if the right narrative is installed in them. Sacrifice their lives and freedom of choice if they're told that it's for their own good, survival and comfort. And yet, it was our choice to be here and experience such a reality. I'd bet that if people were allowed to vote on whether to nuke a country if it meant the end of this thing they've been scaring them for a whole year, a lot would vote yes.
3D, 301 lessons
Learning about brainwashing.
Once a person learns about that and how it's used, it opens up a whole new perspective. One that you personally can't change anything outside of your choice.
 

axj

Dagobah Resident
In this case STO doesn’t “want” or “desire” something, that’s purely STS thinking.

That is a good point - and it is also one of the trickier lessons we have to learn: using intent without anticipation and without "grasping" at an outcome. It seems that this starship crew is definitely not beyond wanting. Does that mean they are purely STS? Maybe.

I was also thinking that it takes being 51% STO to graduate to the Fourth Density, according to the C's. Which means that in that case we are still 49% STS after an STO graduation. That number of course can be decreased, but it seems that 4D may still be more or less a mix of STO and STS tendencies, unlike 6D which are pure STO.

In other words, even if these supposed Pleiadeans display some signs of STS-type wanting, they may still be primarily STO.

They don’t “fight” either like we think in our concept of what we know about a wars.

Yes, and this seems to be another quite complex topic. Again, according to this source the Federation learned a long time ago that fighting wars against the "regressives" is not a good idea. Instead they learned not to attract/manifest nightmares, as this group puts it. This seems to describe the same kind of primarily "inner battle" between STO and STS.

On the other hand, they supposedly also have fighter pilots. I am not too familiar with the reasons, but apparently these are necessary in certain situations that are sort of like the exception to the rule.

Just for curiosity: It will help you in any way to validate that source?

Maybe, maybe not. I try not to anticipate, but I felt that I needed to ask this question.

Gurdjieff said: when members of the group have achieved a breakthrough in the work, i.e. getting to the inner circle, they must be working towards the same goal and there should be no disagreements between them with regard to the main goals.

"Goals" are a slippery slope in any case, as it usually involves anticipation. But yes, according to this group, the Federation races all agree on the "main goals" (for lack of a better word), but can disagree on the best ways to get there.

Really, I hope I don't sound cheesy or anything, but (without any of the possible hubris..) what if we are the help.. WE are the students in this material realm after all, not the fully or semi-ethereal beings we may hope to meet, even if the chaos, the lessons and uncertainty are beyond our current understanding, admittedly.

That's what this group is saying as well: "You are the help that was sent for humanity", referring to the supposed star seeds. The Ra material calls these people Wanderers who incarnated here from higher densities.

The C's also confirmed that Wanderers as described by Ra are real (August 11, 1996):

Q: (L) Oh, the Cassiopaean variety is the product of an overactive imagination. OK, since the Ra material is considered to be a kind of primer to the Cassiopaean material, could you give us a percentage on the accuracy of this material?
A: 63
Q: (L) 63%, Well, that's pretty good, considering... (J)It's not bad... (T) A lot of it's very good stuff... (L) Can you talk to us a little bit about the concept of Wanderers? Is the Ra concept of Wanderers a valid...
A: Yes.

Q: (L) OK, is there anything about Wanderers that you can tell us, that would help us to identify them?
A: Specifics, please.
Q: (L) OK, is it a correct point of reference that Wanderers are individuals who feel alienated in the world system?
A: Yes but they can partially adapt.
Q: (L) OK, do they also sometimes have physical...
A: Revulsion to physicality.
Q: (T) Revulsion to physicality? They don't like physicality? But they're here! (J) Just because they're here, they don't have to like it! (L) OK, is that always a clue?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Anything else about them that... (J) Wait, I have another question. Revulsion to physicality, does that refer to a dislike of the fact that in 3rd density is all physical and it's fixed, as opposed to upper densities, where there's variability?
A: 3rd density is not "all" physical.
Q: (L) Well, there's spiritual... (J) I understand that, but the physical body itself, is fixed. (L) Well, I don't think that's what they're getting at... (J) That's what I'm asking. (L) I think that what they're getting at is like a fine division between somebody who focuses on physical sensation as opposed to spiritual or mental or emotional sensation as being the point of reference.
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And this is something that I was reading in this book the other day, that he talks about, the body is animal, and the soul is spirit. He says that animal people just seek animal experiences, and they glorify them, and they stimulate their physical emotions.
A: 3rd density natives tend to concentrate and to an extent, revel, in the physical.
Q: (T) And boy, they're reveling right now! (L) Yes. (T) There's major reveling going on. And it's intensifying every day. (J) I think the point that I was trying to make was having to stay in 3rd density, would they miss the variability of physicality? (L) Well, Wanderers, remember, are 6th
density beings.
A: The lack.
Q: (T) The lack of physicality?
A: Yes. Is missed.
Q: (L) They miss the lack of physicality. (J) Right. Exactly. (L) They miss the lack of physicality. (J) OK, that was what I was getting at. I just didn't say it right.
A: Not so much "miss," as much as difficulty of adjustment.
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
From somewhere on page one of this thread...

"As you already know, it was the Federation that imposed the Van Allen Bands, the etheric band. Until humans learn to resolve their differences with one aother. Until they mature as a race or species because today human race is not considered a race. They let them destroy each other as part of learning. As part of the school. But to a limit, that's why the nuclear war will never happen, because the Federation does not allow it. Just because it would finish the school. But they allow world wars because that is what humans have manifested for themselves. Free will principles of the Federation. Because it is the only way for them to learn. With difficulties and strong challenges. To get contrast and manifestation focus. To learn to control their powers."

Wow. That's some ripe fruit!

4D STO installed the Van Allen Bands? To keep us contained?

They wouldn't allow us to nuke ourselves into dust?

Those would be flagrant violations of Free Will. -Consider; the C's went to lengths to not even damage maize stalks when they made their crop circles. STO steps lightly. STO does not impose its wishes on others. It doesn't box people in, or prevent them from hurting themselves.

Can we really picture legions of 'good guys' installing radiation belts around the planet to keep humans on Earth? (As if there's an actual chance of us infecting the rest of the galaxy in our tin can space ships pushed along with rocket fuel?)

To quote Joe Biden...

"Come on, Man!"
 

Ina

Dagobah Resident
From somewhere on page one of this thread...



Wow. That's some ripe fruit!

4D STO installed the Van Allen Bands? To keep us contained?

They wouldn't allow us to nuke ourselves into dust?

Those would be flagrant violations of Free Will. -Consider; the C's went to lengths to not even damage maize stalks when they made their crop circles. STO steps lightly. STO does not impose its wishes on others. It doesn't box people in, or prevent them from hurting themselves.

Can we really picture legions of 'good guys' installing radiation belts around the planet to keep humans on Earth? (As if there's an actual chance of us infecting the rest of the galaxy in our tin can space ships pushed along with rocket fuel?)

To quote Joe Biden...

"Come on, Man!"
You just spoke my mind. And wrt The Federation, the notion of ~, has been popularized in at least two cultural franchizes, the Stargate franchise and the Star Trek franchise. Every time the human race has to prove itself in a way or another. Stargate in specific has detailed descriptors for ancients and etc. It would be interesting to find out who or what source came first with the Federation Notion and when. Besides all that, the Federation notion itself implies socio-political entities, that imply political hierarchies, which to me it means elites and power. I stop here because I have a big problem with politics and political activists.
 

axj

Dagobah Resident
Those would be flagrant violations of Free Will. -Consider; the C's went to lengths to not even damage maize stalks when they made their crop circles. STO steps lightly. STO does not impose its wishes on others. It doesn't box people in, or prevent them from hurting themselves.

You are comparing 4D and 6D, which are very different. Do you think that 4D STO people must be 100% STO like the 6D C's?

We graduate when we are 51% STO, according to the C's. Which means that even after 4D STO graduation, we would still be 49% STS. As I said, 4D seems to be more of a mix where people who are primarily STO may still have minor STS aspects or tendencies as well.

The same would apply to a large organization of 4D STO people. It would probably also have some minor STS aspects or tendencies in it.

Did the C's say that people become 100% STO after a 4D STO graduation, despite having been maybe only 51% STO and 49% STS during the graduation?
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
You are comparing 4D and 6D, which are very different. Do you think that 4D STO people must be 100% STO like the 6D C's?

We graduate when we are 51% STO, according to the C's. Which means that even after 4D STO graduation, we would still be 49% STS. As I said, 4D seems to be more of a mix where people who are primarily STO may still have minor STS aspects or tendencies as well.

The same would apply to a large organization of 4D STO people. It would probably also have some minor STS aspects or tendencies in it.

Did the C's say that people become 100% STO after a 4D STO graduation, despite having been maybe only 51% STO and 49% STS during the graduation?
That sounds about right.

I confess to having only skimmed the Federation claims because I found them insulting and repellent. They come off sounding very Q / Flat Earth / Crisis Actor to me.

I was conflating Van Allen Belt installation with being a 6D difficulty-level feat, since manipulating the natural magnetic fields of an entire planet seems rather beyond the capabilities of a Federation of 4D space brothers. -And also rather unnecessary. Don't planets come pre-installed with magnetic features usually?

It's like some con-man in a robe pointing to a mountain range: "See that? Yeah, I made those. Yeeeeah, that's the ticket! In fact, I made the oceans, too. Yeah, heh, heh."

Narcissistic and wishful.

Sounds like Lizards to me.
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
You just spoke my mind. And wrt The Federation, the notion of ~, has been popularized in at least two cultural franchizes, the Stargate franchise and the Star Trek franchise. Every time the human race has to prove itself in a way or another. Stargate in specific has detailed descriptors for ancients and etc. It would be interesting to find out who or what source came first with the Federation Notion and when. Besides all that, the Federation notion itself implies socio-political entities, that imply political hierarchies, which to me it means elites and power. I stop here because I have a big problem with politics and political activists.
Indeed.

I'm still working my way through the new sci-fi/fantasy thread.

I get the feeling that rather a lot of cultural programming has been seeded in that field. Fiction and philosophy are closely related.
 

Graalsword

Jedi Council Member
Disagreeing with someone and doing things your own way does not necessarily mean you are self-serving.

But isn't STO about striving for objetivity? If there are two positions (these guy's and the Federation's) wouldn't it be wise for them to consult 6D STO or Zindar council or whoever is "above" them to help them solve the disagreement so that all can do the best aproach together?
Instead of doing an intervention that would prevent us from learning the pending lessons?

And they are quite direct about the "horror of the situation" (the likelyhood of genocide on Earth), unlike the New Age channelings. There were also live Q&A sessions with questions from viewers to this starship crew in real time on Youtube.

Probably because many people got tired of new agey style and they had to adapt the speech to current potential readers; making it a kind of Ashtar Command 2.0.
 

MJF

Jedi Council Member
Indeed.

I'm still working my way through the new sci-fi/fantasy thread.

I get the feeling that rather a lot of cultural programming has been seeded in that field. Fiction and philosophy are closely related.
Woodsman, I started that thread to try and draw out those influences on our popular culture today. I was going to ask the question on this thread when did the first reference to a Federation come into the current zeitgeist but you beat me to it. I think one of the people who helped promote the concept of the Federation was Gene Roddenberry, the creator of the Star Trek franchise. I was in fact thinking of doing a piece on him. Although he is not renowned as a science fiction writer, he did write some of the screenplays to Star Trek episodes himself. He also helped to create other science fictions shows such as Andromeda, which had a commonwealth rather than a federation.

Where did he get the concept of the Federation from? Well we know he was involved in the channelling sessions of entities that described themselves as the Council of Nine or the 'Ennead' in the 1950's. If you are interested, Ancient Aliens did a whole show on them in season 11: episode 8. The man at the centre of these channellings was Andrija Puharich, US Army Captain and author of a government paper on the weaponisation of ESP. He was in fact a government scientist, who may have worked for the CIA and been involved in the MK Ultra project. He certainly did expirements on psychedelic substances and may have been one of those involved in creating LSD, which was used with disastrous results in the Vietnam War (see the film Jacob's Ladder for a reference). Clive Prince and Lynn Picknett's book 'The Star Gate Conspiracy' contains a very detailed account of these channellings

Gene Roddenberry was supposed to have incorporated many of the things he learned in these channelling sessions into his Star Trek series. For example, the idea of warp speed travel, teleportation, the 'Prime Directive' and, of course, the Federation.
 
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