Recurrence

[edgitarra]

I was thinking at one point about some questions, maybe I don't have an answer because I do not understand yet the concepts, but i've been thinking for some time and would like to share it here.

There are two types of doctrines in the spiritual traditions. One says that there is recurrence(reincarnation), and one says that there is no recurrence, and that we only get this life to live, as a final test.
During the Old Testament, the one basic law of life was "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", a.k.a the law of cause and effect. Starting from the New Testament, when supposedly Christ sacrificed for our salvation, for the upcoming of the "new man, new era", basically the law of recurrence was cancelled. The new law got defined in the rule of only one life - one final test, posibility for a new level(4d maybe), under the system of Christianity. This new law, contradicts the other;
In orthodoxism, recurrence is explained in a such a way that it can demolish the whole concept. In their view, recurrence is seen as an automatic process, mechanical, and thus it cannot attain a level of a higher consciousness. Even though we might incarnate again, our conscious sensation can be just a trick of mechianicalness, automaticity.
What is opposed, such as the new law, it says that we have to accept that this is our last life, and that we have to accept our inability to do, our helplesness, and by working on our will combined with God's will and help or shocks, we can reach the so called stage of the New Man.

My quoestion is now, which one is true? Both of the doctrines seem to have very good bases of knowledge.
What is the life process of a person which is nescient, for example? A person totally remote from every kind of knowledge?
I must say i am not in total agreement with the whole process of karma, so please if anyone has some comments to get me out of this confusion, it might be of help.
THanks!

 

[edgitarra]

"Very well," I said, "tell me what you think of recurrence. Is there any truth in this, or none at all. What I mean is: Do we live only this once and then disappear, or does everything repeat and repeat itself, perhaps an endless number of times, only we do not know and do not remember it?"
"This idea of repetition," said G., "is not the full and absolute truth, but it is the nearest possible approximation of the truth. In this case truth cannot be expressed in words. But what you say is very near to it. And if you understand why I do not speak of this, you will be still nearer to it. What is the use of a man knowing about recurrence if he is not conscious of it and if he himself does not change? One can say even that if a man does not change, repetition does not exist for him. If you tell him about repetition, it will only increase his sleep. Why should he make any efforts today when there is so much time and so many possibilities ahead—the whole of eternity? Why should he bother today? This is exactly why the system does not say anything about repetition and takes only this one life which we know. The system has neither meaning nor sense without striving for self-change. And work on self-change must begin today, immediately. All laws can be seen in one life. Knowledge about the repetition of lives will add nothing for a man if he does not see how everything repeats itself in one life, that is, in this life, and if he does not strive to change himself in order to escape this repetition. But if he changes something essential in himself, that is, if he attains something, this cannot be lost"

...

G. sat there smiling.
"You see how easy it is to turn you; but perhaps I was merely romancing to you, perhaps there is no recurrence at all. What pleasure is it when a sulky Ouspensky sits there, does not eat, does not drink. 'Let us try to cheer him up,' I think to myself. And how is one to cheer a person up? One likes funny stories. For another you must find his hobby. And I know that Ouspensky has this hobby—'eternal recurrence.'

ISOTM

This is a quote for my reply above, I couldn't modify my previous message so i posted again.

 

[Mike]

This is how I see it in terms of reincarnation based on what reading the forum for some time, C’s and books.

We reincarnate back into 3D until we work on ourselves and grow enough to progress to 4D. G I think says that we basically have to grow a soul in order to continue on to something else. I think he talks about this subject also in terms of immortality somewhere else in ISOTM. I equate what G is talking about with moving on to 4D and ending the continual recycling back to 3D without any remembrance of past reincarnations. There are many books on reincarnation and past life therapy that point to reincarnation being the case at least as circumstantial evidence.

You asked for the truth on the subject and I don't think we can really say for sure either way, which points to using this life to the fullest in terms of what we put into it and get out of it. I think this is what G is pointing to with what you posted.

Also, I see the Christian view of having only this one life to make it to heaven is basically a way to manipulate people to behave the way you want based on their fears of not making it to heaven in terms of so called salvation.

Here are some podcasts about the subject:

http://cassiopaea.org/2011/11/29/reincarnation-part-1/
http://cassiopaea.org/2011/11/29/reincarnation-part-2/

Also, I think this subject might be better suited for a thread such as:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3594.0

 

[Jodi]

Also, I see the Christian view of having only this one life to make it to heaven is basically a way to manipulate people to behave the way you want based on their fears of not making it to heaven in terms of so called salvation.

Having read the Gnostic Scriptures, Thomas in particular, Jesus supposedly said we only need to pray one prayer to offset karma and ultimately be "saved" from if. In "Our Father", we ask God to forgive us our wrongdoing "as we forgive those who do us wrong". The shift from "an eye for an eye" is that we have evolved beyond the need for revenge. And instead, we are taught by Jesus to forgive instead and end the cycle with love and forgiveness. Hence we are absolved because we choose to absolve others.

In my mind, there is the actual Jesus and there is the orthodox religion seemingly based on his teachings. In actuality his teachings were used as a form of control- the church was a political power. The teachings were used to control people out of fear and hatred which is how the original message got twisted and even lost in a 3D STS orthodoxy which to this day has very little to do with the original teachings. IMHO

 

[electrosonic]

Also, I see the Christian view of having only this one life to make it to heaven is basically a way to manipulate people to behave the way you want based on their fears of not making it to heaven in terms of so called salvation.

There's always the possibility that this sort of belief is upheld by certain people because they do indeed only have one life to lead - i.e. Organic Portals, who's consciousness upon death assimilates itself back into the group soul unit.

But for souled individuals I'd agree that it's a manipulation technique.

 

[lainey]

Also, I see the Christian view of having only this one life to make it to heaven is basically a way to manipulate people to behave the way you want based on their fears of not making it to heaven in terms of so called salvation.

Having read the Gnostic Scriptures, Thomas in particular, Jesus supposedly said we only need to pray one prayer to offset karma and ultimately be "saved" from if. In "Our Father", we ask God to forgive us our wrongdoing "as we forgive those who do us wrong". The shift from "an eye for an eye" is that we have evolved beyond the need for revenge. And instead, we are taught by Jesus to forgive instead and end the cycle with love and forgiveness. Hence we are absolved because we choose to absolve others.

In my mind, there is the actual Jesus and there is the orthodox religion seemingly based on his teachings. In actuality his teachings were used as a form of control- the church was a political power. The teachings were used to control people out of fear and hatred which is how the original message got twisted and even lost in a 3D STS orthodoxy which to this day has very little to do with the original teachings. IMHO

Have you had the opportunity to read Laura's Secret History of the World? You may really enjoy the section on who wrote the bible.