Reversed emotions

agni

Dagobah Resident
How to deal with reverse emotions ?

Since childhood, in certain situation i tend to react with laughter in some moments where one should be crying. Example: funerals, when procession begins for some reason it delivers laughter. It comes out of nowhere, i do not feel comfortable of it, but can't help it.. Sometimes there are other instances where i should be experiencing empaty, but what comes out is smile. Is it uncontrolled self-calming ? What else could it be ?
 
How many funerals were there where you laughed at the beginning? I don't suppose you happen to remember what you were thinking and feeling at the time?

If I were asking myself this question, I would want to recall specific occasions, and I would want to try to catch myself while I was doing it again. It might turn out to be something other than what I first thought it was.
 
mb said:
How many funerals were there where you laughed at the beginning? I don't suppose you happen to remember what you were thinking and feeling at the time?

If I were asking myself this question, I would want to recall specific occasions, and I would want to try to catch myself while I was doing it again. It might turn out to be something other than what I first thought it was.
I've been at 4 funerals. I felt sadness for people crying & hurt. But when procession begins, music/small orchestra starts to play it gives me giggles. Same when there is priest present & doing his liturgy service. That's about 2 thing that precede the laugh... Music & priests. Yet, somehow I do not think this is emotionally apropriate reaction, when others are mourning...
 
Do you laugh when you hear music and see priests at other times than funerals? I am not too sure what would be an "emotionally appropriate reaction" at a funeral. I have mostly avoided going to them and when I did go, I sometimes have become so upset that I shut down emotionally. Are those "appropriate" reactions? Are the mourners "appropriate?" It might be easier to see what you are looking for if you didn't judge yourself in the next breath.

I have noticed that I sometimes experience a release or letting go when I attend a memorial service, and I understand that that is the reason for having them--they are certainly not "for" whoever died. At funerals, not so much--my emotions like to take over. It never occurred to me to start laughing, though, when the music starts. Perhaps that would help.

On what other occasions do you start to laugh when you "should be crying?" When are you supposed to cry?
 
mb said:
Do you laugh when you hear music and see priests at other times than funerals?
Music - usually not, but it does add color to my moods. Priests - sometimes, especially when they preach about something they have no idea about.

mb said:
On what other occasions do you start to laugh when you "should be crying?" When are you supposed to cry?
See above about priests. It's brainwashing, keeps people in sleep. I can laugh about it, but in reality i shouldn't be laughing, it's sad, more than anything.

I can laugh at my own blindness, while it's something I am disturbed with.

Another example. I saw my friend "awkwardly" fall on the ground, first reaction was giggle, second to see if he is okay. Where I feel it should be visa-versa. I feel i should have checked if he is okay, before i found it to be funny.

if I understand correctly, laughter is a release of unused energy by lower centers. Predator uses it to render one "useless", preventing from using that energy as a fuel for change/action or prevent/distract me from feeling empathy. Or is there something more to it ?
 
agni said:
mb said:
Do you laugh when you hear music and see priests at other times than funerals?
Music - usually not, but it does add color to my moods. Priests - sometimes, especially when they preach about something they have no idea about.
Just because someone says something false, does that mean they don't know what they are doing? I might laugh too, but it would come from anger, I think. But then I came from a family where anger wasn't allowed--if it was me--and laughter was another way of expressing feelings. And this feels like that kind of situation.

agni said:
mb said:
On what other occasions do you start to laugh when you "should be crying?" When are you supposed to cry?
See above about priests. It's brainwashing, keeps people in sleep. I can laugh about it, but in reality i shouldn't be laughing, it's sad, more than anything.
Is it? How about tragic, or infuriating? Are you sure, though that you "should be crying" at such times. (That's what you said.)

agni said:
I can laugh at my own blindness, while it's something I am disturbed with.
Huh?

agni said:
Another example. I saw my friend "awkwardly" fall on the ground, first reaction was giggle, second to see if he is okay. Where I feel it should be visa-versa. I feel i should have checked if he is okay, before i found it to be funny.
I do that too. Just don't stand there and do nothing while you laugh.

agni said:
if I understand correctly, laughter is a release of unused energy by lower centers. Predator uses it to render one "useless", preventing from using that energy as a fuel for change/action or prevent/distract me from feeling empathy. Or is there something more to it ?
I don't think that you can reduce laughter to so simple a definition. I think you have to look and see what is going on, inside (feelings, thoughts, and memories) and outside, and how it all connects. You could use it to avoid things, or to hide expressing something else, or you might treat it as a signal that you need to pay more attention to what triggers the laughter and stop worrying about the laughter itself.
 
mb said:
agni said:
mb said:
Do you laugh when you hear music and see priests at other times than funerals?
Music - usually not, but it does add color to my moods. Priests - sometimes, especially when they preach about something they have no idea about.
Just because someone says something false, does that mean they don't know what they are doing? I might laugh too, but it would come from anger, I think. But then I came from a family where anger wasn't allowed--if it was me--and laughter was another way of expressing feelings. And this feels like that kind of situation.
That is if they are aware of what they are DOING. I highly doubt priests are an exception to mechanical behavior from the rest of the humanity.

mb said:
agni said:
mb said:
On what other occasions do you start to laugh when you "should be crying?" When are you supposed to cry?
See above about priests. It's brainwashing, keeps people in sleep. I can laugh about it, but in reality i shouldn't be laughing, it's sad, more than anything.
Is it? How about tragic, or infuriating? Are you sure, though that you "should be crying" at such times. (That's what you said.)
I do not really see anything particular entertaining/funny in people sleep/brainwashing.

mb said:
agni said:
I can laugh at my own blindness, while it's something I am disturbed with.
I do not see anything funny/entertaining being asleep either, because my sleep/mechanical behavior allows PTB to be in charge of me. Being a tool used against others is not something i should be laughing about.

mb said:
agni said:
Another example. I saw my friend "awkwardly" fall on the ground, first reaction was giggle, second to see if he is okay. Where I feel it should be visa-versa. I feel i should have checked if he is okay, before i found it to be funny.
I do that too. Just don't stand there and do nothing while you laugh.
Question is why laughter(enjoyable feeling) comes first, before other feelings, such as empathy ?

mb said:
agni said:
if I understand correctly, laughter is a release of unused energy by lower centers. Predator uses it to render one "useless", preventing from using that energy as a fuel for change/action or prevent/distract me from feeling empathy. Or is there something more to it ?
I don't think that you can reduce laughter to so simple a definition. I think you have to look and see what is going on, inside (feelings, thoughts, and memories) and outside, and how it all connects. You could use it to avoid things, or to hide expressing something else, or you might treat it as a signal that you need to pay more attention to what triggers the laughter and stop worrying about the laughter itself.
So far, i observed laughter as a buffer, that defuses/neutralizes me from "feeling" the situation, as it seems it takes focus away from situation and makes me perceive things less serious.
 
Perhaps George Carlin shares your sentiment, or at least there may be some overlap between what he is saying here and why you may be laughing in certain situations:

About natural disasters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pe4XVVUbiA

Funerals and their meaningless and artificial rituals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRCKoT1HY3U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvImP6P_czc

I've done this too, most notable (to me) was when 911 happened. I was in a highschool class, we were all looking at a TV. As others were holding their mouths in horror, I had a different reaction. I felt no emotions at the time, either because of shock, or maybe because I failed to realize that humans were involved and were experiencing great pain. I am pretty sure I had an urge to laugh though, but not at what is happening, but at the situation and the ridiculousness and insanity of it all. The suffering didn't even enter my mind at all as part of what was going on at the time, the sheer grandiosity of the event kept my mind occupied. I didn't know exactly what I was seeing, how serious it was, what was going on, etc.

I have been to few funerals, but I don't have the urge to cry at one. I think in many ways the ritual is ridiculous. Dead body in a casket, people coming up to the casket kneeling saying "prayers" or goodbyes. None of it feels authentic or true. Oh and when people walk by to shake the hands of family members and offer their condolences, it's all so staged and ritualized it just looks like a pointless act. Which it is because all those same people with grim looks on their faces will then proceed to talk about themselves and have a great time like it's a party. They offer fake condolences, fake "if there's anything you need, let me know" and fake "I'm keeping him in my thoughts".

Maybe it's because I have ADD (unofficially, I never went to get "tested") - it's hard for me to focus on something when my mind is just stuck on observing what is going on around me and it seems stupid, or funny, or ridiculous. Maybe I'll cry later, when I'm alone, and I think about that family again, and I'm not distracted by nonsense on all sides. Not to mention all the programming about not showing negative emotions in public, which may be because I'm a guy and this is what we're conditioned. But it's hard to be serious and real at an event so surrounded with fakery on all levels. I'd much prefer to "offer my condolences" in a private way, in my own way, in my own time, something more creative and therefore meaningful and real both to myself and hopefully to those who lost a loved one. Just not at an arranged ritual designed for that sort of thing. "Ok kids, now let's all line up and everybody say sorry to the nice lady!" (all the kids go: Sorry!). I mean, come on!
 
agni said:
Question is why laughter(enjoyable feeling) comes first, before other feelings, such as empathy ?
Agni,
I don't know what else I can say. I can't answer your question about why your first reaction is to laugh. It might be possible that I could write something that helped you find your own answer, but when you reply back to my suggestions by reaffirming the original problem, I have nothing new to respond to.

Perhaps this passage from ISOTM (Chapter 6) about "self-observation" might apply, since your question seems to involve observing buffers:
Ouspensky quoting Gurdjieff said:
Self-observation, especially at the beginning, must on no account become analysis or attempts at analysis. Analysis will only become possible much later when a man knows all the functions of his machine and all the laws which govern it.

In trying to analyze some phenomenon that he comes across within him, a man generally asks: 'What is this? Why does it happen in this way and not in some other way?' And he begins to seek an answer to these questions, forgetting all about further observations. Becoming more and more engrossed in these questions he completely loses the thread of self-observation and even forgets about it. Observation stops. It is clear from this that only one thing can go on: either observation or attempts at analysis.
 
agni said:
Another example. I saw my friend "awkwardly" fall on the ground, first reaction was giggle, second to see if he is okay. Where I feel it should be visa-versa. I feel i should have checked if he is okay, before i found it to be funny.
Agni, this article could shed some light as to why you laugh in such a situation. Granted, it does not answer the question as to why you laugh at funerals(or maybe it does?), but in that respect, I think mb's last post is the best advice. Here's the article;
A British science writer says he has determined humor is just the recognition of a pattern that a person finds surprising.

"Humor occurs when the brain recognizes a pattern that surprises it and that recognition of this sort is rewarded with the experience of the humorous response, an element of which is broadcast as laughter," said researcher and theorist Alastair Clarke. "It is not the content of the stimulus but the patterns underlying it, that provide the potential for sources of humor. For patterns to exist it is necessary to have some form of content but once that content exists, it is the level of the pattern at which humor operates and for which it delivers its rewards."

Clarke also predicts the use of his hypothesis will facilitate the creation of a less robotic form of artificial intelligence.

Clarke's theory is detailed in his book "The Pattern Recognition Theory of Humor" published by Pyrrhic House and presented for those who work in or comment on related fields. The book, which includes analysis of examples of humor from Chaucer to Monty Python, will be published in October.
 
ScioAgapeOmnis said:
Perhaps George Carlin shares your sentiment, or at least there may be some overlap between what he is saying here and why you may be laughing in certain situations:

About natural disasters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pe4XVVUbiA

Funerals and their meaningless and artificial rituals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRCKoT1HY3U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvImP6P_czc
Hahaha... He does ! What is happening i find funny & sad at the same time. Thanks again for a good laugh. i am too starting to like Carlin's humor.

ScioAgapeOmnis said:
I have been to few funerals, but I don't have the urge to cry at one. I think in many ways the ritual is ridiculous. Dead body in a casket, people coming up to the casket kneeling saying "prayers" or goodbyes. None of it feels authentic or true. Oh and when people walk by to shake the hands of family members and offer their condolences, it's all so staged and ritualized it just looks like a pointless act. Which it is because all those same people with grim looks on their faces will then proceed to talk about themselves and have a great time like it's a party. They offer fake condolences, fake "if there's anything you need, let me know" and fake "I'm keeping him in my thoughts".
I could not agree more. I do find that rituals are ridiculous and i see the fakeness too. It is funny, "khm.." and sad at the same time. I wonder if ridiculousness is what i saw in it when i was a 5 y.o. and saw the first funeral.


ScioAgapeOmnis said:
I've done this too, most notable (to me) was when 911 happened. I was in a highschool class, we were all looking at a TV. As others were holding their mouths in horror, I had a different reaction. I felt no emotions at the time, either because of shock, or maybe because I failed to realize that humans were involved and were experiencing great pain. I am pretty sure I had an urge to laugh though, but not at what is happening, but at the situation and the ridiculousness and insanity of it all. The suffering didn't even enter my mind at all as part of what was going on at the time, the sheer grandiosity of the event kept my mind occupied. I didn't know exactly what I was seeing, how serious it was, what was going on, etc.
This goes very well with SOTT article Jimbo has pointed out, and it also parallels with ISOTM (end of chapter 11).
p.s.appologies in advance for my poor translation, i do not have it in english, if anyone wants to share the quote, i will be more then happy to edit mine)

from ISOTM said:
Laughter does not exist in all of the centers, but only in those, that are divided in two halves: positive & negative. Even if I have not talked about it in detail, I will, when we study centers in more detail. For now we will study intellectual center. There are certain impressions possible, that are projected to both halves of the center, invoking simultaneously both "sharp" YES & "sharp" NO. These simultaneous "yes" and "no" produce special contractions; and not being able to harmonize & absorb two contradicting impression from one/same fact, center starts to throw/release energy in form of laughter, that flows in from accumulator that feeds it. Sometimes, in accumulator there are too much energy gathered, and center is not capable of using it. Then any, even most casual impression could be perceived in dual form, aka it will get on two halves of it at the same time, which will produce laughter, aka release of energy.

"Of course, I am giving you common definitions; you ought to remember, that yawning, as well as laughter are very contagious. It shows, that they are functions of instinctive & moving centers"

- But why laughter is so pleasant ? - someone has asked.

- Because laughter releases you from extra energy, - said Gurdjieff, - which, if stays unused, may become negative, aka poison.

There are a lot of this poison inside of us. Laughter is anti-poison. This anti-poison is only necessary until we learn how to use all of the energy for useful work. When speaking about Christ, they say he never laugh. There is no mentioning of him in new testament of him laughing. But there are different methods not to laugh. Some people do not laugh because they are absorbed by negative emotions - anger, fear, hate, suspicion. And there are people that do not laugh, because they do not have negative emotions. Understand one thing: there can not be laughter in higher centers, because in higher centers there is no division/separation, "yes" and "no" does not exist there.
mb said:
Perhaps this passage from ISOTM (Chapter 6) about "self-observation" might apply, since your question seems to involve observing buffers:
What a coincidence :) You reminded me that laughter was talked about in ISOTM ! And you seem to be on a spot that i am doing too much analysis (heck, i am even employed as one...). I am trying to jump over my own head here. I have not noticed that i got caught up in that. I am to busy trying to assign laughter to certain i's or events without proper observation. Which points out i am a bad listener also, since ScioAgapeOmnis pointed it out to me in one of my previous posts already.

i's tricked me again :o


Thank you guys for your help !
 
Why thank you, agni! I have learned from this myself. When we started getting into those complicated nested quotes and I tried to reply, first I noticed that distractions kept coming up so that I never had time to write, and finally something inside me said "Stop--enough!" Then I thought about self-observation being "without judgement" and I looked up the introduction to it in ISOTM, and I found the passage about "analysis" that I quoted earlier, along with other things I had missed or forgotten about that were especially helpful to me.

I am amazed at how when I re-read passages in ISOTM, especially those about self-observation, I see details that "weren't there before." I don't really think that anyone is sneaking in at night and changing the book, but I can only absorb so much in one reading and not everything comes from the book anyway--some of it comes from observation. Sometimes learning is fun.
 
There have been great responses and references here.
I'd like to add my own experience in case it's helpful for anyone.

From my understanding, laughing during shocking or uncomfortable situations (within or without) is a very common reaction because most cultures are so repressed that their true feelings can't be expressed. For example, when people get angry at a small child for crying in a public place, it's not because the child is consciously trying to be rude. People get angry at children crying because they often have anger in themselves since THEY can't freely express THEIR emotions like that child. Since they don't have that emotional compassion and understanding within, they can't apply it without in certain situations. And since crying is seen as "negative", the uncontrollable emotions come out as laughter instead.

I've been recently getting deeper in to the history of my own suppressed emotions and can say firsthand that this has been my situation. I see laughter come up at times when I'm uncomfortable, but it's not a direct threat to me. Here's a prime example:

During a recent Craniosacral Therapy session, I "checked out" and went unconscious; my body was spasming during the session as things were processing. When I awoke, after a sip of water and deep breathing, the practitioner asked, "How do you feel?"… I responded that I felt relaxed. Then, I immediately thought of the stress I accumulate by "staring in to the heart of darkness" by looking at the issues in the world. I started laughing because I thought of how one day none of this will matter, trying to intellectually "make light" of the issue to unconsciously avoid the deeper, more real trauma and PAIN (Since childhood, I "intellectualize" traumatic things in life as a defense mechanism. I'm working on it.). But as soon as I laughed, I started thinking about how much I truly love the people who also speak out against the injustices of the world and I began to cry tears of joy. As soon as the emotions opened up and I began to cry, I started to laughing at my crying. Then, suddenly, I started to cry again, thinking of the bittersweet struggle of it all. I went back to laughing again, then I started to BAWL, tears streaming down my face, moaning in agony at the painful things consciously coming up, releasing.

So maybe trying to see what comes to mind when you laugh, what you may be avoiding, allowing yourself the space to process those emotions, and being honest with yourself about your own emotional avoidance and trauma can be helpful.

Just my own experience to add to the great insight here already, fwiw...
 
de-tached said:
There have been great responses and references here.
I'd like to add my own experience in case it's helpful for anyone.

From my understanding, laughing during shocking or uncomfortable situations (within or without) is a very common reaction because most cultures are so repressed that their true feelings can't be expressed. For example, when people get angry at a small child for crying in a public place, it's not because the child is consciously trying to be rude. People get angry at children crying because they often have anger in themselves since THEY can't freely express THEIR emotions like that child. Since they don't have that emotional compassion and understanding within, they can't apply it without in certain situations.

It's usually the case that people get upset at hearing a crying child because the sound of a crying child is the most disrupting/annoying/alarming noise that exists for most human beings. So, the reaction most people have is less about "not being able to express their own anger" as it is that the sound itself is alarming/distressing to the extreme.

d said:
And since crying is seen as "negative", the uncontrollable emotions come out as laughter instead.

Yes, Gurdjieff said:

g said:
Laughter relieves us of superfluous energy, which, if it remained unused, might become negative, that is, poison. Laughter is the antidote.

He also said that laughter can be the emotional release of the energy created by an internal conflict between "yes" and "no", which is pretty directly related to the above.
 
anart said:
It's usually the case that people get upset at hearing a crying child because the sound of a crying child is the most disrupting/annoying/alarming noise that exists for most human beings. So, the reaction most people have is less about "not being able to express their own anger" as it is that the sound itself is alarming/distressing to the extreme.

I thought de-tached meant that people not so much get upset at hearing the sound of a crying child, but rather get mad and direct anger at the crying child herself. Sure, the noise is disrupting and alarming, but the more situationally appropriate resolution of this anxiety would be to comfort the child, or solve the problem in the environment that makes the child upset. Instead, you see things like, child falling, scraping her knee and crying, and getting yelled at by her parent for making a ruckus or for being a cry-baby. I have observed it many times, and unfortunately have done this in times of stress and lesser awareness, with these exact motivations.
 
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