Romantic Fiction, Reality Shaping and The Work

Approaching Infinity

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Just thought I'd add this clarification on the nature of the energy transfers Ra described. According to them, "physically expressed love" without orgasm can still transfer a "considerable amount" of energy:

The energy transfer occurs in one releasing of the potential difference. This does not leap between green and green energy centers but is the sharing of the energies of each from red ray upwards. In this context it may be seen to be at its most efficient when both entities have orgasm simultaneously. However, it functions as transfer if either has the orgasm and indeed in the case of the physically expressed love between a mated pair which does not have the conclusion you call orgasm there is, nonetheless, a considerable amount of energy transferred due to the potential difference which has been raised as long as both entities are aware of this potential and release its strength to each other by desire of the will in a mental or mind complex dedication.

But it still seems that a physical connection is necessary for such a transfer. You won't get it just be dreaming it up or having a pleasant conversation. And there must be a conscious giving in this case.

Ra: ...the negative or female, as you call it, drawing the energy from the roots of the beingness up through the energy centers, thus being physically revitalized; the positive, or male polarity, as it is deemed in your illusion, finding in this energy transfer an inspiration which satisfies and feeds the spirit portion of the body/mind/spirit complex, thus both being polarized and releasing the excess of that which each has in abundance by nature of intelligent energy, that is, negative/intuitive, positive/physical energies as you may call them

Last month I read a short book by J.G. Bennett (Sex and Spiritual Development), which collects some of his talks on that theme from the last few years of his life. There were a lot of interesting bits I think may be relevant to the discussion here, so here are some of them from the first talk:

In animals the action of sex is regulated by, and flows into the reproductive cycle common to all forms of life originating from the fusion of two cells: attraction, courtship, copulation, fertilization, gestation and birth are all manifestations of the sexual energy. Man shares this with the animals, but in man sex has an important part to play in the realm of what we call the mind, or psyche. Here we will speak of the transformation and regulation of psychic energies.

The disorganizing or entropic nature of time leads to the narrowing down of possibilities and the gradual elimination of freedom in the world. There must be beings capable of creative action and, more, of self-creation.

The action of sexual energy depends upon a separation of the sexes for its working. It is like magnetism, which can only be present when the two poles of the magnet are separated. The closer they are to one another, the stronger the force of their attraction; but when they touch, the force goes. It is totally otherwise with the energy of love. The force of love increases with union, and it is in and through union that there can be love.

It is commonly supposed that sex in man, as in the animals, has the primary function of continuing the species by reproduction, and that all other uses of sex are in some way illegitimate or merely seeking pleasure. This view is in no way justified. Man has an access to creative energy that is denied the animals and it is primarily through sex that the working of this energy is regulated in him. The normal sexual act between a man and a woman, and no other sexual activity with or without orgasm, produces the regulative effect.

The energy behind sexual activity is the creative energy. This is beyond life and even beyond consciousness. It is in the nature of the creative energy and therefore of sex, to be spontaneous and unpredictable.

Gurdjieff, in his own inimitable way, described the "excess energies" resulting from improper use of sex energy as waste products that are expelled during sex. Bennett, in much more polite language, writes that sex energy "is able to bring about a harmonization between the different elements of the mind and the elimination of tainted energies ... Sex is the established and normal way for this harmonization and elimination to take place."

The real delight of sex is neither in mental stimulation nor in emotional excitement but in the enhanced clarity, power and strength of experience on all levels. For example, true feelings, such as joy, wonder, hope and love are not disturbing and exciting because they reach deeper than the egoistic self. These true feelings are spontaneous and are gifts that we can receive only when we forget or lose ourselves. ... In this free blending of the sexual energy - which almost invariably occurs for everyone, even if only at the moment of orgasm - a real essence contact is forged between man and woman. It is this essence contact which prevents sex from ever being a trivial thing. {Jordan Peterson has said something very similar.}

If one's essence is not to develop in any way, but to remain an immature essence, then multiple relationships do not matter. If one's essence is to evolve, then sooner or later, many sexual relationships will have to be paid for.

Bad news for our dukes! ;) Luckily they have such understanding ladies.

[Abstinence in pursuit of spiritual benefit] is a misguided notion and is a misunderstanding of the idea of the 'transmutation of sex'. Our sexuality is part of our nature; sex between man and woman plays an essential role in transformation.

There are compatible and incompatible essences. ... [With compatible essences] sex beings to have a fully shared character, where the man is helping the woman to be more fully a woman and the woman is helping the man to be more fully a man. It is then that it is possible to talk about marriage in the true sense of the word.

And one last bit on homosexuality:

In the second, or mesoteric, stage of the work ... the homosexual may even have a certain advantage because he often is able to come to the realization of his own nothingness more completely than 'normal' people. ... [In this stage] the sexual function must be subordinated to the transformation of energies for the formation of higher bodies, and the homosexual who cannot restrain his sexual impulses and yet seriously wants to work may have to wait until he reaches an age at which the sexual function begins to lose its force ... Many homosexuals are indeed exceptionally perceptive and sensitive to other people, including those of the opposite sex, and they can, therefore, do a great deal of good even if their own transformation is delayed. I must, however, emphasize once again that the homosexual who thinks himself special or superior to others, cannot even enter the mesoteric stage of the work. It is really necessary here to put aside any sense of guilt or inferiority. I have myself observed the way that Gurdjieff dealt with homosexuals. He was at pains to give them confidence that they could work on themselves and he never allowed them to feel themselves special.
 

luc

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I think part of the cleansing experience reading these books has to do with the fact that the characters showcase what it means to strive towards STO in this reality of ours. They help each other grow, built healthy families and relationships, care for each other, care for their servants, love each other, act with courage and love when faced with evil and evil people, honor the creator by enjoying creation, etc. etc. They humbly make the world a bit more beautiful, a bit more loving, a bit more joyful every day. Reading about these dynamics again and again tremendously helps "anchoring the frequency" so to speak. And brings home the point how simple, how humble, and yet how difficult the STO life is.

As for the sex, the dynamic displayed in the books seems straightforward enough: the woman wants to be desired. The man gives it to her by being madly attracted physically, and shows his desire by making love to her finding the perfect balance between raw desire and restraint, which allows him to give her maximum pleasure and helps her "let go". His desire for her is completely free of conditions, games etc. The man wants to be admired - as a real man, protector and splendid lover. The woman gives that to him by being attracted to him, and by deeply enjoying the sex, by letting go, again without conditions, games etc. This creates a dynamic where all the nonsense surrounding sex, love, trauma, insecurities etc. can be healed: because the raw sexual energy is so much more potent than all those false thoughts and assumptions, and even all those twisted emotions.

So woman feels desired, man goes out of his way to please her, woman gives back by admiring the man, which among other things she shows by actually being pleased! Physically, this results in splendid sex, but there is another layer to it - real, raw, unconditional, healing love which bypasses all programs and buffers.

It's also interesting that the books always have this over the top happy ends: not only does the couple end up happily married and deeply in love, but they also end up with fancy titles, a huge estate, a loving family that healed all rifts, and the evil adversaries banned/punished/dead. It clearly is an unrealistic scenario. But reading these books, I can easily imagine the heroes and heroines ending up impoverished in a small cottage, but just as happy and splendid. The over-the-top luck, title, estate, beautiful surroundings etc. are highly symbolic though - they are a physical representation of the new "unseen reality" these people enter, the "kingdom of God" so to speak. Which makes the message and the underlying dynamic of the books even more powerful and cleansing.

If I was to sum up what these books can teach us, I would say: "letting go". In all ways. Including our wrong theories, wrong assumptions, wrong emotions. Which can be very painful!!!
 

Konstantin

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As for the present reality, so many things would have to come together in just the right way that I see the odds as rather long. I seem to have a lot of "needs," and I don't see why I should think to burden someone else with them. If someone wanted to take them on fine, but unless you're just some super altruistic person, why would you? I can deal with my own problems, I don't have to have anyone else.
Even if what you say about the world that we live in is true, even if it is true that it is such a dark and terrible place, that is only part of the truth. There is light in this world, there is beauty and there are good people.

Why couldn't you be a "rich dukish type"? If you could set aside all of your logical objections and wave your magic wand is that something you would want? Money could make a huge difference. If you truly want to help people (and yourself) lots of money is a good way to do it. You clearly have a very sharp mind so there's no reason why you couldn't aspire to that if you wanted to.

What if its not about the odds? As hlat says, if you don't even try you are guaranteed to fail.

If you find the right person they may want to be "burdened" with your "needs", that's part of what a relationship is about, we burden each other. I assume from your posts that you would want the other person to aspire to STO, even if they may not call it as such, so doesn't that mean giving to the other person? If you were in an STO candidate relationship you would give to each other, you would give time and emotional support and you would give with your actions. Love is more than a feeling, it is a verb and it involves a lot of doing, IMO when you love someone else you show it with your actions.

This is something that I'm learning and striving to be better at, so don't take this as some kind of gospel from a relationship/love expert, I'm just sharing my experience. I agree with @Mari, there are a million possibilities and I don't have an agenda for you either way, just trying to share my experience fwiw.

This is how I see this.
One part of the problem is dealing with your own problems. But we as humans have a lot of programming, a lot of buffers.
Finding a partner, a soulmate, somebody with who you can experience true love is a powerful mechanism of enabling one's growth.

You see, in those novels, people are with their cultural and personal programs running strong. But after they feel something inside them, they start to doubt, they start to have a faith in that feeling and they are brave enough to follow their guts. No too much intellectualizing , and they are all very smart and intelligent people and a lot of them have a good education.
And just after that, the transformation process starts. Both sides go changes and transformations and after all suffering in the end they are much better persons. And all that just because they feel true love for their partner.
They sacrificed their comfort zone and they started to disintegrate their programs and buffers in order to be able to be with their loved partner. They suffer and they grow. There is no growth without suffering and they are willing to suffer in order to be with their loved ones.

It is a big lesson in love and be in a romantic relationship is a very powerful mechanism for growth. If we see all these characters are much better, much-developed persons at the end of the books. We can say much more toward STO.

But nothing at all would happen if they just don't have faith and courage to do something.
Just take the Sons of seen series as an example. There will be nothing if characters in every book would just stay in their comfort zone and do nothing "very stupid", or very brave and follow their instinct, their feeling, their heart. Too much intellectualizing would make them suffer in their misery of life without any change of serious growth but also a true enjoyment in life.

I can give a personal example. A few months ago my wife was talking with one older woman whose family are very good friends to my family. we knew each other since I was a little kid.
My wife told me that the woman was so positively surprised by my transformation since I married my wife 14 years ago that she was amazed.

Your personal problems now become problems of both of you and both of you as a couple is much smarter than just one of you in solving and navigating the labyrinths of life and daily problems. Both partners learn to give, learn to carry for their partner, to risk their own wellbeing in order to help the other partner.

Reading these novels somehow enables us to be more aware of these processes going on in the background that we are unaware in our automated daily life.
 

Color

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Well, this brings back an interesting memory, considering you're concerned about my fearfulness.

:-D
The truth is - I am NOT concerned about you, I think you are doing great. You're smart, you're funny, you're honest. You have a strong will. You have a good heart. There's nothing for me to be concerned about. Decisions based on fear, reflecting our desire to control life, are perfectly normal on this level of our existence. I was simply pointing out the fact of their origins - STS.

You might disagree but I don't think STS way of being can be overcome outside of ourselves. There always comes the time in our lives when the battle is clearly happening within. The time when the outside experiences can't do anything else to help us grow until we deal with the past ones still lingering and often overtaking our inner landscape. Demanding to be resolved in a positive manner.

I imagine it as if we drew a line in the sand. We tell ourselves - "Ok, so, this is THE Line. Behind it, I am somewhat safe... I once crossed it and it was bad, really bad, I don't want to do that again!" It's a line, just a line that we drew, but as time passes by the line gains more and more power, it feeds on our fears and pain of rejections and it starts turning into a wall. You can still cross over, but it gets bigger and bigger by the day and you need more strength, more will, more courage to do it. If you allow it to grow into a full-size wall, way above your head, then you're faced with quite a problem.

I know this cause I've done it. Not with sexual or heart matters, but with many others. It's scary as sh*t!!! It takes your breath away, just to stand in front of that wall! The longer it's there the more you forget what was like living without it. It seems as if it was always like that, you and the wall. Together as one.

I don't believe in mistakes. God, The Universe, DCM is too great to allow those. ALL is a lesson! - I take that line very seriously. Free will, to me, means the freedom God gave 'himself' to experience whatever happens, however it feels... When you think about it, it was the bravest decision of them all! He gave us this individual awareness to help him do that, to experience itself, to play within the dream of imagined boundaries and limitations. To grow to break free of them, back into Reality. It is a tremendous gift, think about it and what you are doing with it. Be Humble. Be Grateful. Most of all - be Brave. It's just a made up wall you dreamt into existence.
 

Mariama

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That heartbreak was never really resolved. For awhile I thought I could try again with someone else; do it better under better circumstances. The more I learned about relationships and how they usually fall apart, the more I lost hope.
From your brief description, it seems the fleeting interaction might be a few stellar magnitudes above what many may get to know of in a lifetime, so I understand why your hopes are low. Through this person, the Universe taught you something. Could it be that part of healing is to be grateful to the Universe? The woman or the circumstances that moved in your brief encounter was a teacher of a significant capacity. Are you grateful, or do you try to shut down the whole event and wished it had never happened? In life, we meet so many people, with some we have no contact later, all that may be left is a memory. The memory may have an emotional charge, it may have a feeling associated with it, it may be subject to the coloring from other events, to interpretations and reinterpretations. This is not insignificant, and if we do not exist in isolation. can it be ruled out that our healing also affects others?

I think that's a great point.

I was in a 10 year relationship with a boy/young man who truly loved me (as in love is a verb), even though I was a complete mess at the time and did everything to test his endurance and his love. When the relationship ended I felt completely lost, isolated and cut off from the refuge he and his family had given me and I was in mourning for a long time and never really got over it until I learnt to become truly independent.
(As Covey writes in his The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People first we have to become independent before we can become interdependent.)

That meant I was looking in all the wrong places, had to endure a few hard knocks before beginning to understand how I had treated him and to feel remorse. In hindsight, his being part of my inner landscape provided me with some self-worth, so I could end destructive relationships before they could become truly harmful and I have him to thank for it, or at least this is how I see it now.

He came into my life to teach me some important lessons about myself, about love, friendship and companionship even though it took me a long time before I could see his true value and the value of the Universe as I was still caught up in the heartbreak that ensued.
 

Arwenn

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@Neil & @Jones- I also wanted to thank you both for being open with your experiences. Some breakups (usually in our youth) seem to hurt the most or are the hardest to get over. Hence Cat Steven’s ode to the first cut being the deepest. I don’t have all that much more to add, other than being open to the romance reading project and seeing where it takes you. It’s a natural instinct to put defences up against future hurt, but these books have made me realise I might be missing out on so much at the expense of being safe. I came across this quote by Rumi, which I think is beautiful and apropos:
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.
Maybe that’s just one part of what these novels are doing.
 

Cosmos

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I'm about halfway through book three of the Horseman trilogy. I also would have never even dreamed of reading a romance book, ever. In fact, the only book I can think of that I have ever read that was fiction was Treasure Island! All other books were nonfiction. Interestingly, I would have never guessed that there is apparently so much sex in most of this genre. I always thought that romance books are mostly about love "per se" without sex. Usually I seldom have a hard time to put down books (I'm one of those types who have to make quite some efforts to keep reading), but in the romance books, I catch myself not wanting to put them down and wanting to know what comes next instead and keep reading.

Anyway, since a lively discussion has developed here about Sex, love and STO, I thought I would share some of what came up for me so far. It revolves around the following points:

- Gurdijeff said something to the effect that around 70 percent of what we do, think and react to is about Sex. A statement that I think is close to the truth.

- If what Gurdijeff said is correct (and all the other stuff [not only from him, but in many traditions] about the "sex center") that could mean that it would be rather foolish (keeping in mind what the C's said about us being 3D STS and that we can only graduate by learning the lessons of this 3D density/class) to think of Sex as something unimportant or "not spiritual" that can be ignored. In fact, it seems to me that if it is such a big part/force of our 3D existence, that there must be big lessons right there that have to be learned. Maybe developing this center in the right way is thus one of the hardest things to accomplish on this level?

- Since Sex is apparently such a big force or "center" in humans, it is probably also an area that has to be navigated rather carefully since it can easily lead into both directions.

- On a side note: Laura said at one point that Gurdijeff probably had a problem with Sex himself.

- There seems to be a big problem of what our society has made of sex that is infused big time by Ponerology/Ponerization/Pathology. It makes tackling this issue very difficult indeed.

- The idea that Sex is "not spiritual":

I have a guess that a significant amount of those who think of or preach sex as "degrading" and/or "not spiritual" have a sex problem themselves and/or have problems in that regard either because of the ponerized image it has obtained and/or because those people have never really had any significant and/or more or less decent sexual relationship. Or they are more or less completely inexperienced in that regard themselves and only know it by the ponerized view it is presented.

- It is very easy nowadays to have knee-jerk reaction toward this topic especially when it comes to ideas about spirituality

- It is interesting that apparently most people out there who think they are spiritual and/or on a spiritual path (or want to aspire to such a path) think of sex as something "not spiritual" and something that has to be avoided and/or ignored or traduced in another way. Generally speaking, if most people think that something is true, there is always a good likelihood that it is not true in my experience.

I can sympathize with those who think that Sex is something "not spiritual" since I also constantly went back and forth around this question during the years. I used to think that way at one point too and just couldn't bring myself to think of anyone being "spiritually evolved" and also engaging in "this act" at the same time. For a long time it was really hard for me to even try to think otherwise. Those things were mutually exclusive in my thinking. In hindsight, I think a lot of my think there was informed by the ponerized view I had about Sex.

Take the following with a grain of salt (or a bucket full) since I could be fooling myself:

When I was a teenager I had an experience that very much felt like a big "enlightening" "realization" that was so very emotionally moving, in such a way that it is impossible to describe in words. I don't remember what exactly the circumstances were in which this realization hit me like a bus, but I do remember that when it came, I was in a very desperate/emotional situation that was caused (I think) by an emotional outburst of myself (aka. loss of my temper) towards another person (I think) in which I did things toward that person that I regretted big time.

Suddenly a realization pretty much out of nowhere came over me (while being in this very emotional state of remorse) that Sex and Loving-Sex are almost incomprehensibly different, or let's say two types of shoes. This realization was accompanied by a huge burst of moving emotions that included totally overwhelming emotions of something I can only describe as a feeling of complete love, that was almost too hard to bear/grasp. I realized how truly otherworldly (in the positive sense) Sex can be and that this type of Sex has as little to do with the ordinary sex one thinks of (especially as a pubertal boy in this day and age) as you can possibly imagine. In that short moment of realization I saw Sex extremely differently than the other view I had of it. So much so that this image of pure sex didn't bring with it any of the usual emotions, thinking patterns and raw "animalistic" urges, normally associated with sex. Quite the contrary in fact. As far as I remember I even saw in my minds vision a Sex act of this kind that felt exactly like that during that realization. I can only describe it as otherworldly and pure. Completely different. It didn't take long thought that I "forgot" this realization again, meaning that I was never able to experience/see Sex in this way again, at least consciously. It was also one of the very rare moments in my life that I cried and on top of that pretty much uncontrollably (overwhelmed by the realization of true/complete love and the associated emotions, I would guess). Maybe what I saw there in this short glance was what true Sex could be (or is) on another level?

Anyway, I also remember a dream around the same time in my life, which was one of those you never forget and that shake you up emotionally. It was about a medieval type of scene in which a girl/woman was in a castle up the hill. The amount of love I felt toward that woman was indescribable. There was some type of danger to her well-being and I had to safe her. I think I was a knight or something in the dream and I tried desperately to safe and/or fight for her. I don't know exactly anymore, but I think the castle was on fire or something and I had to safe her. Then I woke up shattered and amazed by the amount of love I felt toward this person in the dream.
 
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Wandering Star

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I'm about halfway through book three of the Horseman trilogy. I also would have never even dreamed of reading a romance book, ever. In fact, the only book I can think of that I have ever read that was fiction was Treasure Island! All other books were nonfiction. Interestingly, I would have never guessed that there is apparently so much sex in most of this genre. I always thought that romance books are mostly about love "per se" without sex. Usually I seldom have a hard time to put down books (I'm one of those types who have to make quite some efforts to keep reading), but in the romance books, I catch myself not wanting to put them down and wanting to know what comes next instead and keep reading.

Anyway, since a lively discussion has developed here about Sex, love and STO, I thought I would share some of what came up for me so far. It revolves around the following points:

- Gurdijeff said something to the effect that around 70 percent of what we do, think and react to is about Sex. A statement that I think is close to the truth.

- If what Gurdijeff said is correct (and all the other stuff [not only from him, but in many traditions] about the "sex center") that could mean that it would be rather foolish (keeping in mind what the C's said about us being 3D STS and that we can only graduate by learning the lessons of this 3D density/class) to think of Sex as something unimportant or "not spiritual" that can be ignored. In fact, it seems to me that if it is such a big part/force of our 3D existence, that there must be big lessons right there that have to be learned. Maybe developing this center in the right way is thus one of the hardest things to accomplish on this level?

- Since Sex is apparently such a big force or "center" in humans, it is probably also an area that has to be navigated rather carefully since it can easily lead into both directions.

- On a side note: Laura said at one point that Gurdijeff probably had a problem with Sex himself.

- There seems to be a big problem of what our society has made of sex that is infused big time by Ponerology/Ponerization/Pathology. It makes tackling this issue very difficult indeed.

- The idea that Sex is "not spiritual":

I have a guess that a significant amount of those who think of or preach sex as "degrading" and/or "not spiritual" have a sex problem themselves and/or have problems in that regard either because of the ponerized image it has obtained and/or because those people have never really had any significant and/or more or less decent sexual relationship. Or they are more or less completely inexperienced in that regard themselves and only know it by the ponerized view it is presented.

- It is very easy nowadays to have knee-jerk reaction toward this topic especially when it comes to ideas about spirituality

- It is interesting that apparently most people out there who think they are spiritual and/or on a spiritual path (or want to aspire to such a path) think of sex as something "not spiritual" and something that has to be avoided and/or ignored or traduced in another way. Generally speaking, if most people think that something is true, there is always a good likelihood that it is not true in my experience.

I can sympathize with those who think that Sex is something "not spiritual" since I also constantly went back and forth around this question during the years. I used to think that way at one point too and just couldn't bring myself to think of anyone being "spiritually evolved" and also engaging in "this act" at the same time. For a long time it was really hard for me to even try to think otherwise. Those things were mutually exclusive in my thinking. In hindsight, I think a lot of my think there was informed by the ponerized view I had about Sex.

Take the following with a grain of salt (or a bucket full) since I could be fooling myself:

When I was a teenager I had an experience that very much felt like a big "enlightening" "realization" that was so very emotionally moving, in such a way that it is impossible to describe in words. I don't remember what exactly the circumstances were in which this realization hit me like a bus, but I do remember that when it came, I was in a very desperate/emotional situation that was caused (I think) by an emotional outburst of myself (aka. loss of my temper) towards another person (I think) in which I did things toward that person that I regretted big time.

Suddenly a realization pretty much out of nowhere came over me (while being in this very emotional state of remorse) that Sex and Loving-Sex are almost incomprehensibly different, or let's say two types of shoes. This realization was accompanied by a huge burst of moving emotions that included totally overwhelming emotions of something I can only describe as a feeling of complete love, that was almost too hard to bear/grasp. I realized how truly otherworldly (in the positive sense) Sex can be and that this type of Sex has as little to do with the ordinary sex one thinks of (especially as a pubertal boy in this day and age) as you can possibly imagine. In that short moment of realization I saw Sex extremely differently than the other view I had of it. So much so that this image of pure sex didn't bring with it any of the usual emotions, thinking patterns and raw "animalistic" urges, normally associated with sex. Quite the contrary in fact. As far as I remember I even saw in my minds vision a Sex act of this kind that felt exactly like that during that realization. I can only describe it as otherworldly and pure. Completely different. It didn't take long thought that I "forgot" this realization again, meaning that I was never able to experience/see Sex in this way again, at least consciously. It was also one of the very rare moments in my life that I cried and on top of that pretty much uncontrollably (overwhelmed by the realization of true/complete love and the associated emotions, I would guess). Maybe what I saw there in this short glance was what true Sex could be (or is) on another level?

Anyway, I also remember a dream around the same time in my life, which was one of those you never forget and that shake you up emotionally. It was about a medieval type of scene in which a girl/woman was in a castle up the hill. The amount of love I felt toward that woman was indescribable. There was some type of danger to her well-being and I had to safe her. I think I was a knight or something in the dream and I tried desperately to safe and/or fight for her. I don't know exactly anymore, but I think the castle was on fire or something and I had to safe her. Then I woke up shattered and amazed by the amount of love I felt toward this person in the dream.
This has been "perfect" from what is my understanding.

A pleasure to read your post.

I hope you have already "rescued" your "goddess" from the castle.;-)
 

genero81

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It's interesting, one can't really 'Mr. Spock' it through life. The mental life is very important. One must learn how to think, think about how one thinks, (introspection) think with a "hammer." (discipline of thought) But we get stuck because of the emotional component and can't get unstuck without it. We have traumas, perceived trauma's, heartache, rejections. And we come up with some strategy to deal with it and remain there unless we can find a way to let it go. That can happen through 'defeat' (positive disintegration) or it seems through reconnecting with the 'heart.' In these romance novels, the connection and love for the woman stirs things up which ideally get resolved through communication. Through the 'safety' of that bond, old patterns of personality designed to cope with hurt or trauma, dissolve to release from their mental and emotional constriction.
 

Jones

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Through the 'safety' of that bond, old patterns of personality designed to cope with hurt or trauma, dissolve to release from their mental and emotional constriction.

You've hit on a key there I think. Not just physical safety, but emotional safety as well - and trust. Without those elements it's difficult to let go and enjoy sex to it's fullest. This is something that is explored in the MacKenzie series from a number of different angles. The MacKenzie men are well aware of their inner monsters because of the fact that they are their fathers sons. Aware that their father was a monster. So perhaps there is a genetic component as well as a reactionary learned behavioural component to the monsters within.

It reminds me of this from Jordan Peterson:


So, in the same way, perhaps the MacKenzie men can be virtuous because they know the shape and size of their inner monsters and have them under control. They also like it when their women are strong and assertive, though that doesn't stop them from being tender, protective of them and gentle and patient with them when they are dealing with and healing their fears. All of this without devolving into coercive control. The MacKenzie men are also very gentle, patient and tender with the children of the family.
All of which helps to build that safety and trust. I don't think you could get good healthy sex or relationship without that outside of any necessary time and skill given for patience and nurturing of wounds. This article indicates that safety and trust might be more important to women, though I'd imagine that there will be circumstances where it's just as important to some men.
 

Neil

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Could it be that part of healing is to be grateful to the Universe? The woman or the circumstances that moved in your brief encounter was a teacher of a significant capacity. Are you grateful, or do you try to shut down the whole event and wished it had never happened?
I've taken both positions. Most of the time I was trying to come up with reasons why it wasn't real. It was just puppy love, or novelty, or suppressed sexuality, or a 4D STS "love bite," or some kind of new relationship energy which made me glorify a hormonal rush as something transcendent. None of those explanations really stuck.

A couple of years before this occurred, I remember reading mythical stories such as The Odyssey that had romances in them and wondered if that could actually exist and what it would be like to hold such a person in my arms. It was more of an academic question for me, and I certainly wasn't a romantic teenager pining after the ideal love. I considered that kind of a distraction. It seems that at some point the universe decided that if you have the mental energy to seriously contemplate such things, it's kind of a waste without the emotional energy to actually manifest that idea form into your physical reality. Hence the stage was set for my "girlfriend."

So one day we were talking about how to stop the alien invasion. My opinion was that you needed to do all sorts of studying and activities to build discipline and enhance psychic acuity in order to overpower them. She said that that stuff played a role, but it's not what's really important. What really stops them is unconditional love. If the planet were united in unconditional love it would manifest a change that would cause all of their power, space cruisers, and whatnot to crumble into dust. They could still try to kill us with them, but it wouldn't accomplish much in the end. I protested that I don't think most people could even conceive of unconditional love, much less do it. "Yes, but some can, and those are the ones who matter. You think you don't have feelings, but you do, and that's why I'm telling you this. I want you to think about what you got out of our time together." This was making my head spin. It certainly gave new meaning to the phrase "make love, not war." After a pause she continued, "I want you to make someone smile." "Well, I can tell someone a joke, but I'm sure you mean something deeper than that." "I do." I told her that I wanted to make her smile, and she said that I made her smile every day, but if I didn't allow myself to love someone one day I would just "burst."

Some years later I was reading Mouravieff's ideas about the sublimation of sex and courtly love and so forth and so on in service to saving the planet from the Deluge of Fire. All of his talk of polar opposites made me think of this whole little romance I had gone through and this conversation stuck out as especially important. I had a pretty good idea what the universe wanted me to do. By this time, I was feeling pretty cynical and hopeless and thought Mouravieff was being overly optimistic. My conception of marriage was that once the novelty wears off, it's basically just perpetual arguing about who's going to clean the toilet next weekend, what color the drapes should be, and how you could be so inconsiderate as to forget to pick up xyz at the grocery store yesterday. Philosophy and ideals had nothing to do with it, love, unconditional or not, was really ancillary to the whole thing, it was too difficult, I wasn't going to experience another heartbreak, and I couldn't picture it working out. Relationships were nice if you could have them, but unnecessary and irrelevant to the Work. I got the impression that the universe does not consider "I can't" to be an acceptable answer, but that's the answer it was going to get. Part of me wished I was wrong and hoped for a different answer.
When we are deeply hurt by people in whom we placed our trust, maybe it feels like a part of our soul is being ripped out, but perhaps that’s not what actually happens?
I actually did not feel betrayed and I only held her accountable for a small fraction of the blame. I was mad at first because she didn't tell me, I just noticed a small ring on her finger one day and asked when the wedding was and found out it was almost two weeks prior. I thought at first she couldn't figure out what she wanted, but in retrospect she probably knew exactly what she wanted. Throughout our interaction, she dropped hints that I was supposed to use what I had learned to love someone else. I could've written the whole thing off as being in my head until she asked me to hold her and I saw how she responded and I knew she felt the same thing. She probably should have pushed me away then and explained very clearly why she had to, because after that there was no ending other than "happily ever after" which was not going to lead to the soul-ripping sensation. Instead, she mixed business and pleasure and started to fall for her "student." I just wanted to keep the feeling of connection going and was clamoring for some solution where it wouldn't end.

She had family issues at home concerning a psycho mom who was kind of a drunk and two younger brothers she had to sort of take care of. Her boyfriend had a job and was working on getting a house to extricate her from this situation. Furthermore, he had saved her from getting beaten or hit one night. From what I understand he was handsome and confident in the bedroom; the stereotypical passionate Latin American lover. He was ready to start a family which is something she wanted. His downside was that he was a fairly strict Catholic and viewed reality through a very narrow dogmatic lens. She had to watch what she said around him, because all of her paranormal experiences got boiled down to angels or demons; Bible or blasphemy. He was also very insecure and possessive of her such that he would not allow her to talk to any boys, even ones who were childhood friends, and would sometimes check her phone to see who called. In many respects, he was everything I wasn't and I was everything he wasn't. On my side, I could carry on philosophical conversations with her and she could openly discuss her paranormal and spiritual interests with me because I had experienced or read about most of them. I also had the benefit of the Cassiopaean cosmology in which to interpret things, which she found fascinating. There was also the issue of our mutual electric touch, which was more potent than any she had experienced before. I didn't have a job or any prospects for the foreseeable future, I was emotionally and sexually inhibited and conflicted, and I was more interested in seeing the world than settling down and starting a family. One day he searched her backpack because he thought she was behaving suspiciously and found something I had written her which confirmed his suspicions. He started crying, wondering how she could've betrayed him after all he did for her, and couldn't believe how I had seduced her. Then his hurt turned to anger and he wanted to hunt me down and kick my butt. So she had to deal with all of that and find a way to talk him down in order to protect me. She was forced into a choice: was it going to be the protecting and providing one with control issues, or the contemplative and otherworldly one with connection issues? It was also possible she could lose both if she made the wrong choice. She told me after marrying him that a lot of his control issues had abated, now that he was assured she belonged to him we should have an easier time. I think in her mind the marriage gave her the security she needed while we could still see each other and she could continue to "train" me until I found someone else, after which point we could still talk and be friends. It didn't quite sit with me, our lives seemed to be moving in different directions, I wasn't sure how much longer I could contain the sexual fires raging within me, and I finally told her I was incapable of loving her, thereby severing the connection I so cherished. "Betraying me" was the most logical choice and gave her more of what she wanted. My emotional center did not consider any of these justifications to be valid, however.

The main takeaway from this mess was how easy it is break hearts either from lack of commitment or being put in uncomfortable situations. It realy wouldn't take much to make someone else feel the way I feel. I used this as further justification why relationships should be avoided.
Also for some reason, your post reminded me of the movie „Mr.Nobody“:
Yes, I watched this a couple years after it came out and it was one of the most touching sci-fi films I've watched. The fact that all of his choices except the one where he ended up with his true love caused his lifetimes to come to rather tragic ends was interesting, and another justification why relationships should be avoided. I did dream about Anna though, and she reinforced my ideal that sex should only be used for soul fusion stuff.

Well, all of this has gotten rather far off the topic of romance books, so I don't plan on posting anything for awhile unless it's relevant to the topic.
 

Ketone Cop

Jedi Master
I've taken both positions. Most of the time I was trying to come up with reasons why it wasn't real. It was just puppy love, or novelty, or suppressed sexuality, or a 4D STS "love bite," or some kind of new relationship energy which made me glorify a hormonal rush as something transcendent. None of those explanations really stuck.

A couple of years before this occurred, I remember reading mythical stories such as The Odyssey that had romances in them and wondered if that could actually exist and what it would be like to hold such a person in my arms. It was more of an academic question for me, and I certainly wasn't a romantic teenager pining after the ideal love. I considered that kind of a distraction. It seems that at some point the universe decided that if you have the mental energy to seriously contemplate such things, it's kind of a waste without the emotional energy to actually manifest that idea form into your physical reality. Hence the stage was set for my "girlfriend."

So one day we were talking about how to stop the alien invasion. My opinion was that you needed to do all sorts of studying and activities to build discipline and enhance psychic acuity in order to overpower them. She said that that stuff played a role, but it's not what's really important. What really stops them is unconditional love. If the planet were united in unconditional love it would manifest a change that would cause all of their power, space cruisers, and whatnot to crumble into dust. They could still try to kill us with them, but it wouldn't accomplish much in the end. I protested that I don't think most people could even conceive of unconditional love, much less do it. "Yes, but some can, and those are the ones who matter. You think you don't have feelings, but you do, and that's why I'm telling you this. I want you to think about what you got out of our time together." This was making my head spin. It certainly gave new meaning to the phrase "make love, not war." After a pause she continued, "I want you to make someone smile." "Well, I can tell someone a joke, but I'm sure you mean something deeper than that." "I do." I told her that I wanted to make her smile, and she said that I made her smile every day, but if I didn't allow myself to love someone one day I would just "burst."

Some years later I was reading Mouravieff's ideas about the sublimation of sex and courtly love and so forth and so on in service to saving the planet from the Deluge of Fire. All of his talk of polar opposites made me think of this whole little romance I had gone through and this conversation stuck out as especially important. I had a pretty good idea what the universe wanted me to do. By this time, I was feeling pretty cynical and hopeless and thought Mouravieff was being overly optimistic. My conception of marriage was that once the novelty wears off, it's basically just perpetual arguing about who's going to clean the toilet next weekend, what color the drapes should be, and how you could be so inconsiderate as to forget to pick up xyz at the grocery store yesterday. Philosophy and ideals had nothing to do with it, love, unconditional or not, was really ancillary to the whole thing, it was too difficult, I wasn't going to experience another heartbreak, and I couldn't picture it working out. Relationships were nice if you could have them, but unnecessary and irrelevant to the Work. I got the impression that the universe does not consider "I can't" to be an acceptable answer, but that's the answer it was going to get. Part of me wished I was wrong and hoped for a different answer. I actually did not feel betrayed and I only held her accountable for a small fraction of the blame. I was mad at first because she didn't tell me, I just noticed a small ring on her finger one day and asked when the wedding was and found out it was almost two weeks prior. I thought at first she couldn't figure out what she wanted, but in retrospect she probably knew exactly what she wanted. Throughout our interaction, she dropped hints that I was supposed to use what I had learned to love someone else. I could've written the whole thing off as being in my head until she asked me to hold her and I saw how she responded and I knew she felt the same thing. She probably should have pushed me away then and explained very clearly why she had to, because after that there was no ending other than "happily ever after" which was not going to lead to the soul-ripping sensation. Instead, she mixed business and pleasure and started to fall for her "student." I just wanted to keep the feeling of connection going and was clamoring for some solution where it wouldn't end.

She had family issues at home concerning a psycho mom who was kind of a drunk and two younger brothers she had to sort of take care of. Her boyfriend had a job and was working on getting a house to extricate her from this situation. Furthermore, he had saved her from getting beaten or hit one night. From what I understand he was handsome and confident in the bedroom; the stereotypical passionate Latin American lover. He was ready to start a family which is something she wanted. His downside was that he was a fairly strict Catholic and viewed reality through a very narrow dogmatic lens. She had to watch what she said around him, because all of her paranormal experiences got boiled down to angels or demons; Bible or blasphemy. He was also very insecure and possessive of her such that he would not allow her to talk to any boys, even ones who were childhood friends, and would sometimes check her phone to see who called. In many respects, he was everything I wasn't and I was everything he wasn't. On my side, I could carry on philosophical conversations with her and she could openly discuss her paranormal and spiritual interests with me because I had experienced or read about most of them. I also had the benefit of the Cassiopaean cosmology in which to interpret things, which she found fascinating. There was also the issue of our mutual electric touch, which was more potent than any she had experienced before. I didn't have a job or any prospects for the foreseeable future, I was emotionally and sexually inhibited and conflicted, and I was more interested in seeing the world than settling down and starting a family. One day he searched her backpack because he thought she was behaving suspiciously and found something I had written her which confirmed his suspicions. He started crying, wondering how she could've betrayed him after all he did for her, and couldn't believe how I had seduced her. Then his hurt turned to anger and he wanted to hunt me down and kick my butt. So she had to deal with all of that and find a way to talk him down in order to protect me. She was forced into a choice: was it going to be the protecting and providing one with control issues, or the contemplative and otherworldly one with connection issues? It was also possible she could lose both if she made the wrong choice. She told me after marrying him that a lot of his control issues had abated, now that he was assured she belonged to him we should have an easier time. I think in her mind the marriage gave her the security she needed while we could still see each other and she could continue to "train" me until I found someone else, after which point we could still talk and be friends. It didn't quite sit with me, our lives seemed to be moving in different directions, I wasn't sure how much longer I could contain the sexual fires raging within me, and I finally told her I was incapable of loving her, thereby severing the connection I so cherished. "Betraying me" was the most logical choice and gave her more of what she wanted. My emotional center did not consider any of these justifications to be valid, however.

The main takeaway from this mess was how easy it is break hearts either from lack of commitment or being put in uncomfortable situations. It realy wouldn't take much to make someone else feel the way I feel. I used this as further justification why relationships should be avoided.
Yes, I watched this a couple years after it came out and it was one of the most touching sci-fi films I've watched. The fact that all of his choices except the one where he ended up with his true love caused his lifetimes to come to rather tragic ends was interesting, and another justification why relationships should be avoided. I did dream about Anna though, and she reinforced my ideal that sex should only be used for soul fusion stuff.

Well, all of this has gotten rather far off the topic of romance books, so I don't plan on posting anything for awhile unless it's relevant to the topic.

Thank you for your share Neil, I for one have always appreciated your intricate and nuanced ways of explaining what you see and think, and in fact your writings are among those that inspired me to finally break down and join this board. And what you just shared here, making yourself vulnerable by sharing your dating history - it makes you far more human and understandable, and available to us personally.

What you just shared about your relationships and your rational, considered, well-written sharing is important in my view. You've let yourself be SEEN. I always appreciated your ability to step back and analyze things from a logical perspective, and what you did here with your own relationship history is impressive, leaving nothing out. While you still seem to write this from almost a third-person retrospective, I can FEEL your true self emanating from those fires.

Your willingness to share the details as you have helps others, especially those like myself who have lived most of our lives in our heads. And I wonder now if one of the major lessons Laura wanted to make available to all of us, was to help many of us who have lived "in cognition" for a very long time and not allowed ourselves to FEEL.

Thank you for your shares, and for your participation on this thread - may it continue! I personally will be posting my own experiences with these books soon in the swamp before I return to this thread. This exercise definitely brought me out of my head and into my being. I can't thank, or curse, Laura enough.
 
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