self-intended death
- Thread starter nyvf5
- Start date
Hi Nyvf5,
A similar issue is discussed in this session in relation to accidental deaths. Hope this helps. :)
A similar issue is discussed in this session in relation to accidental deaths. Hope this helps. :)
Tigersoap
The Living Force
It could also be related to When the body says "no" by Gabor Mate .
If you don't pay attention to the signals that you're body is sending when you're denying a whole lot of your emotional bagages it can certainly cause a slow protracted death through diseases.
If you don't pay attention to the signals that you're body is sending when you're denying a whole lot of your emotional bagages it can certainly cause a slow protracted death through diseases.
Shared Joy
Jedi Council Member
Hi Nyvf5,
I believe that we have this life to learn to die in order to live. What should die in us so that we could lead a meaningful life?
- self importance - why should we live being always preoccupied with other people trampling on our self-esteem?
- fear - why should we live in fear which is debilitating for mind and soul, crippling our actions and rendering us an easy prey?
- false hope - there is nobody else who could sort out our lessons and responsibilities, our reason to be incarnated right here, in the first place. Maybe we would have to work overtime someplace else to make up for all unfinished businesses.
-opportunism - there is neither free lunch, nor easy way out...but if you have nothing left to loose, you'll become courageous and do things you'd never believed to be able to perform.
So instead of looking for an early transition, I think is better to think about the privileges of being alive and able to experience life to the fullest
FWIW
Joy
I believe that we have this life to learn to die in order to live. What should die in us so that we could lead a meaningful life?
- self importance - why should we live being always preoccupied with other people trampling on our self-esteem?
- fear - why should we live in fear which is debilitating for mind and soul, crippling our actions and rendering us an easy prey?
- false hope - there is nobody else who could sort out our lessons and responsibilities, our reason to be incarnated right here, in the first place. Maybe we would have to work overtime someplace else to make up for all unfinished businesses.
-opportunism - there is neither free lunch, nor easy way out...but if you have nothing left to loose, you'll become courageous and do things you'd never believed to be able to perform.
So instead of looking for an early transition, I think is better to think about the privileges of being alive and able to experience life to the fullest
FWIW
Joy
Shared Joy said:
I think that there is much more to it than that. What if a person sent to help a person learn their lesson by dieing? If they had made a contract before incarnating?
Or what if a person was not being allowed to learn the lessons s/he came to learn because of what other people were doing whether well-intentioned or not, as in the case of a couple who went to a psychic to learn about the baby they were going to have and what potential it would have. After finding out that he was going to be someone special who would do great things, once the boy was born, the parents did everything to make his life easy and safe. The child could not learn the lessons that he needed to learn to be the best he could be so he exited that life so that he could try again.
Also, not everybody is on the same place on the circle. They have their own lessons to learn and may not be at the place to learn about the things we speak about here.
As for self-intended dying as described by nyvf5, I think that the session Menrva posted says it best; and for me it has to do with the soul knowing when, why and how to do it. It is not for the physical being to decide, which is different for me than a person deciding to die because of overwhelming pain and suffering.
my 2 cents
Thanks for some interesting answers
However,my asked question was much more focused on the fact if it is possible to come in an Agreement between Body including all his cells and Soul. It was not that focused on karmic issues.
would be interesting to know,if it is possible to get body and soul in such an agreement,so they can help eachother,and if there is a situation where is no other way out than dieing instantly to get rescued from severe and ugly pain,it would be decided by both of this enrgies to die instantly/immediately.
It is meant in a directly way,no accident or whatsoever,just "switching off" directly and instantly,just by this interaction of body and soul.
However,my asked question was much more focused on the fact if it is possible to come in an Agreement between Body including all his cells and Soul. It was not that focused on karmic issues.
would be interesting to know,if it is possible to get body and soul in such an agreement,so they can help eachother,and if there is a situation where is no other way out than dieing instantly to get rescued from severe and ugly pain,it would be decided by both of this enrgies to die instantly/immediately.
It is meant in a directly way,no accident or whatsoever,just "switching off" directly and instantly,just by this interaction of body and soul.
David
Jedi Master
I’m not sure about needing a soul or soul agreement, but I think it is possible... in a similar way some people die in their sleep, not because of old age but because of a very strong belief (cultural), some people have even died from a harmless snake bite, again simply because of a belief that some snake was extremely venomous, maybe these people are highly suggestible (easily hypnotised) people, and the ultimate result of believing a lie, ones own or someone else’s.
Though I have no example of self-intended death, but the principle would seem the same... in the realm of belief... and not so much in the way of a conscious person, soul or no soul... osit
If one was conscious enough to will oneself into the state of death (via. soul agreement or not), one would also have the power over pain and suffering in the first place... so if a person did the deed, that person is probably in the ranks of those who died, because they believed they had no chance/choice, when they did... ‘knowledge protects, ignorance endangers...’ maybe.. perhaps, there might be a specific situation, that might warrant self-intended death, but I don’t know.
The C’s say ‘... all is lessons...,’ and life simply a ‘...school...’
There is no guarantee that one would be rescued, simply because one opted out, like truancy, though I used to do that, simply because school was emotional and physical torture, even getting a good grade was enough to warrant some form of punishment... life seemed impossibly difficult, dammed if one did, dammed if one didn’t, kind of thing... that went on for a few years, I didn’t learn much by opting out.
From my own perspective, since I’m is still alive, there’s a possibility for change/growth and I kind of hope to bring that change with me, could call it protection for the next life, well that’s the way I look at it for now, have no desire to return here to 3D for more lessons/suffering, just my perspective, which means nothing really.
maybe something to think about... fwiw
Though I have no example of self-intended death, but the principle would seem the same... in the realm of belief... and not so much in the way of a conscious person, soul or no soul... osit
If one was conscious enough to will oneself into the state of death (via. soul agreement or not), one would also have the power over pain and suffering in the first place... so if a person did the deed, that person is probably in the ranks of those who died, because they believed they had no chance/choice, when they did... ‘knowledge protects, ignorance endangers...’ maybe.. perhaps, there might be a specific situation, that might warrant self-intended death, but I don’t know.
The C’s say ‘... all is lessons...,’ and life simply a ‘...school...’
There is no guarantee that one would be rescued, simply because one opted out, like truancy, though I used to do that, simply because school was emotional and physical torture, even getting a good grade was enough to warrant some form of punishment... life seemed impossibly difficult, dammed if one did, dammed if one didn’t, kind of thing... that went on for a few years, I didn’t learn much by opting out.
From my own perspective, since I’m is still alive, there’s a possibility for change/growth and I kind of hope to bring that change with me, could call it protection for the next life, well that’s the way I look at it for now, have no desire to return here to 3D for more lessons/suffering, just my perspective, which means nothing really.
maybe something to think about... fwiw
nyvf5 said:
Well, I think that even in case of "direct and instant death" it still would have to do with lessons and making of a some sort of prior choice, primarily because our soul/higher self can see beyond the limited and linear experience we call life. So not sure what you really mean by that. Do you mean like some sort of "psychic poison"? An instant solution in case of danger?
In any case, there are enough examples (and I am personally aware of couple of them), when people, who really didn't want to do something or go somewhere (like relocating) up to a point of saying "over my dead body" indeed wasted away rather quickly and "right on schedule". But it's not like they collapsed out of the sudden, but whatever disease that was already present "was allowed" to grow stronger and reach the inevitable conclusion. It's like they made the choice to die and this "information" that was sent to their system triggered a cascade of inner changes (like suppression of the immune system, for example) to accommodate the choice.
There are also enough cases of people and even pets with their death "freeing" someone from the possible burden, especially prior to making serious life changing steps.
So if I understood your question correctly, yes, it appears that it is possible to reach an agreement between body and soul about the "optimal" dying time. Imo, it probably has to do with the information theory. Look it up on the forum. But maybe something else, don't know. fwiw.
Al Today
The Living Force
Oh, I dunno but I have firm confidence that we may well indeed have exit points in our paths. As the Cs said. Exit points. If "things" are just not going according to the plan, way off the path beyond any map, exit points are presented that enable us to leave this classroom. Then maybe we go back so as to "contemplate the situation" perhaps? I cannot prove anything but when I believe I was, or was to to die/pass on, I remember screaming/shouting ( i cannot find the right word) but very emphatically... When I was blasting through the tunnel, going towards the ever growing light, I said "I AM NOT DONE". Then I woke up, came back and here we are today...
Menna
The Living Force
I know there is some false in the MATRIX 5 by Val Valarian however it states that when the higher self says its time to go you will die. The example in the book is if your sitting in a house and your higher self says its time in that moment something will fall on the house plan crash into house you will die in that moment in some way. FWIW there is some truth in that book but also things that arent true but that is the same with the majority of writing on this type of subject... If this part of the book is truth then yes that is IMO a type of Self intended death by a part of yourself.
Shared Joy
Jedi Council Member
Hi again,
The ancient masters were able to command their death.
In this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Chronicles-Tao-Secret-Taoist-Master/dp/0062502190
there are passages where descriptions of deliberate decisions were given - the sages were able to determine the time and reasons to stay alive or to end it. They died by directing their gathered energies to exit the body.
It's a book worth reading anyway, as it describes the life in the last bastion of ancient Taoism as well as the life in China during large social transformations due to WW2.
Joy
The ancient masters were able to command their death.
In this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Chronicles-Tao-Secret-Taoist-Master/dp/0062502190
there are passages where descriptions of deliberate decisions were given - the sages were able to determine the time and reasons to stay alive or to end it. They died by directing their gathered energies to exit the body.
It's a book worth reading anyway, as it describes the life in the last bastion of ancient Taoism as well as the life in China during large social transformations due to WW2.
Joy
Keit quoted:"Do you mean like some sort of "psychic poison"? An instant solution in case of danger?"
Yeah,something like that I meant(when getting thrown in slowly working meat grinder, for example)
Something that "kills" in split second, thus there is at least no ugly physical pain at all.
However I dont know if this possiblity goes too far away from 3rd density
Thanks
@Shared Joy
Indeed very interesting and food for thoutght what mentioned there.
Actually I think thats how it should be(beeing able to determine the time and reasons to stay alive or to end it,furthermore HOW it will end)
I always wondered and even shocked, why people can not choose for their own when to die or not,especially the fact peolpe cannot master/ choose HOW to die since there is a Big difference between dieing in sleep or getting slowly tortured in extremely painful ways until death, for example.
Chronicles of Tao seems to be very interesting, thanks.
Yeah,something like that I meant(when getting thrown in slowly working meat grinder, for example)
Something that "kills" in split second, thus there is at least no ugly physical pain at all.
However I dont know if this possiblity goes too far away from 3rd density
Thanks
@Shared Joy
Indeed very interesting and food for thoutght what mentioned there.
Actually I think thats how it should be(beeing able to determine the time and reasons to stay alive or to end it,furthermore HOW it will end)
I always wondered and even shocked, why people can not choose for their own when to die or not,especially the fact peolpe cannot master/ choose HOW to die since there is a Big difference between dieing in sleep or getting slowly tortured in extremely painful ways until death, for example.
Chronicles of Tao seems to be very interesting, thanks.
