Session 2 January 1995

Laura

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Note: I was in a really bad mood during this session due to the fact that Frank had been carrying on for hours about the most pathetically trivial stuff you could ever imagine!


January 2, 1995

Frank and Laura

Q: Hello.

A: Hello.

Q: (L) Who is with us?

A: Rivia.

Q: (L) And, where are you from?

A: Cassiopaea.

Q: (L) Have you been listening to Frank talk about his woes and miseries?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) What do you have in response to his woes and miseries, since he is the primary channel, it seems to me that it ought to behoove you to give him some kind of a word on this matter...

A: Open.

Q: (L) What do you mean it is open? Is he going to...

A: Is under attack, as previously described.

Q: (L) Well, would it not behoove him to not respond negatively in thought word or deed and to take care of business as best he can and trust that it will all work out? Because, by becoming all discombobulated, he is giving off negative energy...

A: His methods accomplish the task.

Q: (L) So, in other words, it is alright for him to get all emotionally wrought up and to spout off all these violently...

A: That repels attacking forces because they thrive upon blase passivity.

Q: (L) Well, we are not talking about passivity here. Are you sure you are a Cassiopaean? It sounds to me like you are saying he ought to be giving off... I think we are pulling in Lizzies because of your negativity...

A: Incorrect, you have your "way" of repelling attack, and Frank has his.

Q: (L) Well I just don't see how a whole bunch of negative energy in thought and word can repel beings who thrive on negative energy. I mean, they should be just rolling in joy that they are making him so miserable that he has to carry on that way which then makes me miserable.

A: Not miserable when repelling.

Q: (L) Well, then, the problem here is that when he does this, everybody else he does it around, it makes them miserable, so, what's the deal here?

A: Subjective, your methods can cause perception of upset too.

Q: (L) Yes, I know this, but I am working on being totally unmoved by attack, isn't that the whole point here?

A: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Q: (L) So, I should continue, when I get upset or attacked, to just rave and rant and yell and scream and carry on?

A: You don't, you attack back, externally. Frank attacks back internally. The external manifestation is merely overflow and harmless if recognized correctly.

Q: (L) My understanding is that service to others involves complete lack of concern for self. Therefore, the objective is to have complete lack of concern for self, therefore one would be in such a state of lack of concern for self that when one feels oneself to be under attack, so to speak, or being baited or jabbed, one would simply utterly and entirely disregard this and continue on in a peaceful way. Now, am I misapprehending this in some way?

A: Not misapprehending, misinterpreting.

Q: (L) So, I misinterpret Frank's lack of regard for my feelings because he spouts off and upsets me... that's really a service to others activity and it is only my subjectivity that makes me get upset, therefore, I should eliminate my subjectivity as a service to him so that he can continue to spew off and therefore not upset me, is that what we are getting at here?

A: Off base.

Q: (L) Well, that is what you are saying.

A: That's what you want to believe we are saying, but we are not we are saying all should strive to be objective.

Q: (L) Well, I don't think it is being objective for every little sling and arrow of misfortune to throw somebody into a tailspin. I think part of the whole process is to learn how to go smoothly through all this stuff. And, what you are saying here is don't worry about going through stuff, just dump...

A: You are all learning, including Frank.

Q: (L) Well, let's just drop it. It doesn't make any sense.

A: Your perception, there is much to this whole process that is manifest on other levels, levels other than 3rd...

Q: (L) Well, I just don't think you really understand what is going on. I think that it's...

A: Yes we do. You do not. Open your mind.

Q: (L) Well the only thing I can change about this whole thing is to just stop listening when Frank moans and groans about things that I know everybody else has gone through without moaning and groaning, cause it is entirely, extremely irritating to me to have to listen to it when everybody else has been through it and kept a stiff upper lip.

A: If Frank tried to keep a "stiff upper lip" it would destroy him because of his make-up, which does not correspond to that of most others; try to recognize differences.

Q: (L) Well, I recognize the differences, but I am only human too.

A: If you were asked to be passive toward aggressors, how would you feel about that?

Q: (L) Well, I thought that was what I was supposed to be practicing and, in fact, have been. I thought that this whole thing was about doing and practicing things to make us different than we had been programmed to be.

A: When it is wholly within your "comfort zone" not before, remember, in "Bringers of the Dawn" it says to do that which is effortless.

Q: (L) Okay, it says to do what is effortless. It takes a lot of effort to put up with Frank when he is like that so he will have to swear and vow that he will never complain to me again. Agreed. It takes too much effort for me to deal with it.

A: Would cause karmic backsliding.

Q: (L) Now, just a minute here. You just said to do what is effortless. I said it takes a lot of effort for me to put up with that kind of stuff, and now you are saying that this will cause me karmic backsliding?

A: No we said "do" that which is effortless, "acceptance" is another matter entirely.

Q: (L) What does that mean? (F) I think that what it means is that if you are doing something that is one thing, accepting is another thing. If I have some sort of foible that you don't like, that is not doing. Whether you accept it or not has nothing to do with doing. I accept you, foibles and all, but you are saying that you simply refuse to... (Laura) But I don't attack you, either. (F) I don't attack you. (L) But, it amounts to the same thing to me. To have to listen to moaning and groaning that repeats over and over is the same thing as being attacked. I listen to everybody's troubles all day long and I get sick of people complaining who never do anything about their problems. (F) Well, you don't say that it is my problems that bother you, it's everybody's problems, and it did say that there is karmic significance here which means that you must have brought yourself into a situation where you are surrounded with other people all moaning and groaning about their problems. And, you chose this. If you didn't want to listen to other people's problems, why did you get married and have kids? (L) Well, you would think that my friends would know that I don't need to have problems dumped on me... (F) Who is dumping problems on you? You keep saying this as if somehow... (L) Well, let's drop it... I want to ask: the other night Frank read my palm and gave me several bits of information. When he reads palms does he direct channel this information?

A: Some.

Q: (L) Where does the other information come from when he is reading palms?

A: Varied.

Q: (L) Well, one thing he said to me was about something buried in my cellar. Is there, in fact, something buried in my cellar?

A: Discover.

Q: (L) How am I to discover it other than digging the whole cellar out?

A: Patience will pave path.

Q: (L) Does that give me a clue that something is buried under the steps to the cellar rather than under the cellar itself?

A: No.

Q: (L) Well, I was down there today - I had the kids empty the cellar out - I went around tapping and knocking, and...

A: Yes.

Q: (L) I used a pendulum and dowsed. I came up with a spot using a pendulum, I found a spot. I used the sledge hammer and broke open a part of the cellar floor, dug down four feet, and there was nothing there. Now, I don't look forward to doing that over a 9 by 7 space, and I certainly don't intend to knock all the walls down...

A: Part of discovery process, test dowsing skill on known entities in order to refine process.

Q: (L) Well, either dowsing works or it doesn't, wouldn't you say? Test it on known...

A: Depends upon skill of dowser as in all psychic talents.

Q: (L) Well, the clue I am getting from that is that I may not be the one to do the dowsing, is that correct?

A: If you take one piano lesson and fail to produce Chopin, does that mean you should give up the piano?

Q: (L) Well, let me ask this, give me a straight answer on this one, is there something down there so that we should continue working on the project?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Is it worth tearing up the damn cellar to find it?

A: Up to you.

Q: (L) Well, let me ask you this, is it worth five thousand dollars?

A: To some.

Q: (L) Is it worth ten thousand dollars?

A: Discover.

Q: (L) What is it? (F) Money, it could be gold, it could be jewelry, it could be a valuable stock certificate. (L) Speaking of stock certificates, I have an old stock certificate for one share in the Elk's Club, it is very, very old. Is it worth anything and should I pursue having it checked out?

A: Yes.

End of session.
 

bngenoh

The Living Force
"I" thought these were interesting.

Laura said:
Q: (L) What do you mean it is open? Is he going to...
A: Is under attack, as previously described.

Q: (L) Well, would it not behoove him to not respond negatively in thought word or deed and to take care of business as best he can and trust that it will all work out? Because, by becoming all discombobulated, he is giving off negative energy...
A: His methods accomplish the task.

Q: (L) So, in other words, it is alright for him to get all emotionally wrought up and to spout off all these violently...
A: That repels attacking forces because they thrive upon blase passivity.

[...]

Q: (L) So, I should continue, when I get upset or attacked, to just rave and rant and yell and scream and carry on?
A: You don't, you attack back, externally. Frank attacks back internally. The external manifestation is merely overflow and harmless if recognized correctly.

Q: (L) My understanding is that service to others involves complete lack of concern for self. Therefore, the objective is to have complete lack of concern for self, therefore one would be in such a state of lack of concern for self that when one feels oneself to be under attack, so to speak, or being baited or jabbed, one would simply utterly and entirely disregard this and continue on in a peaceful way. Now, am I misapprehending this in some way?
A: Not misapprehending, misinterpreting.

[...]

Q: (L) Well, I don't think it is being objective for every little sling and arrow of misfortune to throw somebody into a tailspin. I think part of the whole process is to learn how to go smoothly through all this stuff. And, what you are saying here is don't worry about going through stuff, just dump...
A: You are all learning, including Frank.
How true Laura, the part in red that is.
Q: (L) Well the only thing I can change about this whole thing is to just stop listening when Frank moans and groans about things that I know everybody else has gone through without moaning and groaning, cause it is entirely, extremely irritating to me to have to listen to it when everybody else has been through it and kept a stiff upper lip.
A: If Frank tried to keep a "stiff upper lip" it would destroy him because of his make-up, which does not correspond to that of most others; try to recognize differences.

Q: (L) Well, I recognize the differences, but I am only human too.
A: If you were asked to be passive toward aggressors, how would you feel about that?

Q: (L) Well, I thought that was what I was supposed to be practicing and, in fact, have been. I thought that this whole thing was about doing and practicing things to make us different than we had been programmed to be.
A: When it is wholly within your "comfort zone" not before, remember, in "Bringers of the Dawn" it says to do that which is effortless.
The part about doing what is effortless brings to mind this quote:
Everyone has their own vocation. The talent is the call. There is one direction in which all space is open to you. You have faculties silently inviting you thither to endless exertion. One is like a ship in a river, running against obstructions on every side but one, on that side, all obstruction is taken away, and one sweeps serenely over God's depths, into an infinite sea. This talent and this call depend on one's organization, or the mode in which a general soul incarnates as one. One inclines to do something which is easy to one, and good when it is done, but which no other can do. One has no rival. For the more truly one consults one's own powers, the more difference will one's work exhibit from the work of any other. When one is true and faithful, one's ambition is exactly proportional to one's powers. By doing one's work one makes the need felt which only one can supply.
 

SolarMother

Dagobah Resident
Maybe I'm off here, but that session sure seemed corrupt, to say the least! I just couldn't get behind what the "C's" were saying to you, Laura. I'm glad you posted it.

And, what you said to them ("C's") seemed like the truth of the matter. Heck, I don't blame you for being in a 'bad mood' for the session and furthermore, considering your energy had been thoroughly drained by Frank by the time the session started, thereby allowing other influences to enter in and attack/corrupt the session. If my memory serves, Frank had been doing this for awhile, and you were getting fed up.

Q: (L) So, in other words, it is alright for him to get all emotionally wrought up and to spout off all these violently...
A: That repels attacking forces because they thrive upon blase passivity.
Say what?! Repels? Sounds like an invitation to a Lizzie feast to me.

Q: (L) Well the only thing I can change about this whole thing is to just stop listening when Frank moans and groans about things that I know everybody else has gone through without moaning and groaning, cause it is entirely, extremely irritating to me to have to listen to it when everybody else has been through it and kept a stiff upper lip.
A: If Frank tried to keep a "stiff upper lip" it would destroy him because of his make-up, which does not correspond to that of most others; try to recognize differences.
Laura, you were spot on there in your assertions. Frank showed everyone that he could never keep a 'stiff upper lip' because he was too busy feeding off you and others, vomiting all over the place, and expecting you to clean up his mess.
 

Laura

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Yeah, I've never been comfortable with this session and you hit the nail on the head, SM: I was drained.
 

Oxajil

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You would think that if Frank truly cared, he would have stopped his endless moaning and groaning, immediately after knowing it upsets you or anyone else for that matter, and should have sought ways or should have asked about ways as to how to deal with his problems in a way that would be nice for everyone involved (and not draining). But it seems that Frank didn't really care as much to go about it this way. He wasn't capable of truly asking and giving. And I also think that this session was corrupted to such an extent that would feed his ego and his illusions about himself.

To me, after reading this, if there is a little sincerity at all in the session, I got the understanding that everyone is different in a way as to how they wish to deal with their problems (due to programs, trauma's, lessons, genetic make-up etc), and the point being that desiring someone to change their way won't work if they don't want to do this themselves or if their programs or state of being just won't let them.

And as we know, to work in harmony with others requires sincere effort. And since this wasn't natural for Frank, I thought it was interesting that the part on effortlessness was brought up. That might have summed up what was going on in Frank. There was little effort coming from himself and he was fine with feeding from the efforts made by others who had to put up with his effortlessness!

And it seems to me that if a person is not able to look at his behavior from the position of others (thus, more objectively), and if that person does not have the tools (in him) to work with others in a beneficial way, and does not share a common goal to seek objectivity, ...in other words, if there is no colinearity, then best would be indeed to go each their ways.

Just my thoughts on this. Thanks for posting the sessions!
 

Muxel

Dagobah Resident
It seems everybody has taken a rather subjective view of Frank, which is easy to do on hindsight, but the C's said his stream-of-consciousness ramblings were externalizations of the battle within. The momentum of his energetic counterattack was so great it "leaked out" into the physical body and manifested as mechanical energy. Frank wasn't "feeding off Laura"; he was venting. Note that it was the apparent "triviality" of his rant that upset Laura most, because she was only seeing (or rather, hearing) the surface manifestation - the symptom.

[quote author=C's on January 2, 1995]
Q: (L) So, I should continue, when I get upset or attacked, to just rave and rant and yell and scream and carry on?

A: You don't, you attack back, externally. Frank attacks back internally. The external manifestation is merely overflow and harmless if recognized correctly.
[/quote]
 

Muxel

Dagobah Resident
[quote author=C's on January 2, 1995]
Q: (L) So, in other words, it is alright for him to get all emotionally wrought up and to spout off all these violently...

A: That repels attacking forces because they thrive upon blase passivity.
[/quote]

It would seem that even this blasé passivity has a frequency that feeds the Moon, and being a cold fish (or a stoppered bottle) does not necessarily "deny" the feeders what they want. After all, are not the masses already passive in their disregard for the true nature of their situation?
 

Turgon

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Muxel said:
[quote author=C's on January 2, 1995]
Q: (L) So, in other words, it is alright for him to get all emotionally wrought up and to spout off all these violently...

A: That repels attacking forces because they thrive upon blase passivity.
It would seem that even this blasé passivity has a frequency that feeds the Moon, and being a cold fish (or a stoppered bottle) does not necessarily "deny" the feeders what they want. After all, are not the masses already passive in their disregard for the true nature of their situation?
[/quote]

Not necessarily. The STS forces feed primarily on fear/anxiety. And venting, which is anger and frustration mixed in with fear would be a pretty big feast. Plus your dragging someone else into it.

Muxel said:
It seems everybody has taken a rather subjective view of Frank, which is easy to do on hindsight, but the C's said his stream-of-consciousness ramblings were externalizations of the battle within. The momentum of his energetic counterattack was so great it "leaked out" into the physical body and manifested as mechanical energy. Frank wasn't "feeding off Laura"; he was venting. Note that it was the apparent "triviality" of his rant that upset Laura most, because she was only seeing (or rather, hearing) the surface manifestation - the symptom.
If your sincere in what your problems are and what you are venting about maybe it could be a means of coming up with solutions, but it's the triviality of it, as Laura describes that's a feeding mechanism. It then becomes a literal dump because of the lack of specificity as to what the problem is. So you are just using the other person as a punching bag for your problems.

I used to know a guy who used to rant all the time. Constantly spewing his issues with society with so much anger endlessly. All of us listening would inevitably completely zone out like zombies. There was no reciprocation or engaging in conversation, just one person talking, the others listening. But all he was giving out was his hate.

I have a lot of aggressive tendencies, and used to vent on people or take out my frustrations in ways similar to this, but reading the psychology books, learning to meditate, eating better foods, I'm making efforts to manage and guide the anger, not let it control me. This entire session seems corrupt and a justification for Frank's actions making him think it's okay, but a person who cares will admit to his faults and make a change so he doesn't continue to hurt the people around him.
 

Laura

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Just to give an idea of the kinds of things Frank would "vent" about: things like "so-and-so LOOKED at me with contempt!" or "so-and-so didn't LISTEN TO ME and acknowledge my extremely valuable input which was far superior to anything that anyone else said... and look at him now!" Or "Nobody ever listens to me... they haven't been listening to me since I was a kid..." and a lot of stuff about his parents that turned out to not even be true. He could get wound up because he felt he had been disrespected by someone years and years ago, and go on for hours about it. I only learned over time that most often, it was just his subjective interpretation OR that he had behaved obnoxiously in giving his opinion which was then discounted. He was certainly good at that.

There were a number of occasions when I felt that the Cs were not coming through very strong, that their input was being diluted by Frank's anger/input. But still, because of the nature of the method, even if that was there, there was usually some "bleedthrough" of the Cs. I would have been able to tell if he was just pushing the pointer around on his own, and I think that my own energies on the pointer had SOME impact.
 

TheSpoon

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Hi Muxul

I see you've been registered for a couple of days past a month now. In some ways you seem to have gotten a firm grasp of what's going on here - a lot of material that takes a while to get one's head around. Your posts appear (to me) full of confidence and absent of doubt. You haven't asked any questions, just expressed your expert opinion on a range of topics. In other ways....

Muxel said:
Thanks venusian! ....You outed me as a newbie in front of all the other posters in that thread :D
Well the post count does somewhat give it away somewhat...unless you've previously been a serious lurker or registered under another username?

Your comment there suggests that you don't want to be seen as a newbie?

Muxel said:
It seems everybody has taken a rather subjective view of Frank,
Everyone except you? Does that seem likely? Wow. ;) Did you ever meet him?

Muxel, you've received a lot of feedback - especially in the thread Muxel's Cultic Thinking Patterns but you haven't responded to any of it. Doesn't fit with what you want to get out of this forum perhaps? Your current posting style seems to be very much of the "hit and run" variety. I know it's painful to engage with this forum in the way that you're being encouraged to enagage with it, but - personally speaking - I've found it ultimately very conducive to my long term spiritual growth. Which is a new thing for me, 'cos I'm more of an immediate gratification sort of guy. Anyway, I do encourage you to go back to your earlier posts and read through the responses you've received again.

Your Avatar picure may have been chosen more appropriately than you think?

Apologies for going off topic. I guess I'm motivated to post because I see myself in you, that need to be seen as The Expert. And here's me being the expert again (look Dad, aren't I clever!). That ego just doesn't give up :-[

PS Just noticed that you corrected the "e" in blasé. I had the same impulse.
 

Muxel

Dagobah Resident
Turgon said:
This entire session seems corrupt and a justification for Frank's actions making him think it's okay, but a person who cares will admit to his faults and make a change so he doesn't continue to hurt the people around him.
Well you're probably right, Turgon. I guess I didn't sit too well with the idea that the C's are corruptible by their channel. Or maybe I impulsively felt like taking Frank's side – he doesn't get much love on this forum, does he. (No, bad joke, bad Muxel!)


Laura said:
He could get wound up because he felt he had been disrespected by someone years and years ago, and go on for hours about it.
His sounds like a personality I'd be uncomfortable dealing with. Kind of like STS contraction the C's once mentioned.


The Spoon said:
You haven't asked any questions, just expressed your expert opinion on a range of topics.
To be fair, I did ask a question in the Thread That Must Not Be Named, which blew up in my face.

There has been much lack of continuity in my early postings, because oftentimes I would post something and then realize, from the responses given, that the matter ran deeper than I'd thought, or I did not read enough, or I was just horribly wrong. I turned away from those threads in embarrassment, but I still do intend in future to formulate replies to them – when I feel I have "grown" enough. All this bouncing around has given the impression that I have "Expert" designs, but I only wanted to match the caliber of other posters and "play with the big boys" or else I'd be damned to a lifetime of posting in What's on your mind.

Spoon...thank you. I didn't think anyone noticed.
 

anart

The Living Force
Muxel said:
Well you're probably right, Turgon. I guess I didn't sit too well with the idea that the C's are corruptible by their channel. Or maybe I impulsively felt like taking Frank's side – he doesn't get much love on this forum, does he. (No, bad joke, bad Muxel!)
It's really best not to assume that you know more than people who actually interacted with him.

[quote author=muxel]

There has been much lack of continuity in my early postings, because oftentimes I would post something and then realize, from the responses given, that the matter ran deeper than I'd thought, or I did not read enough, or I was just horribly wrong. I turned away from those threads in embarrassment, but I still do intend in future to formulate replies to them – when I feel I have "grown" enough.[/quote]

That's not how it works here. The forum is designed to help people grow. If you run away every time you're wrong, you're going to be doing nothing but running away. There is no 'embarrassment' here - only learning. If you are interested in learning, then you can take each case where someone points out that you are mistaken as an opportunity to interact in order to grow. That's the only way to learn. Or, you can just walk away from the thread as if everyone didn't notice that you just walked away from the thread. We notice.


muxel said:
All this bouncing around has given the impression that I have "Expert" designs, but I only wanted to match the caliber of other posters and "play with the big boys" or else I'd be damned to a lifetime of posting in What's on your mind.

Spoon...thank you. I didn't think anyone noticed.
Of course we notice, this is a school, it's what we do. Why not try dropping the ego and the "I have to be smart" routine and actually just try to be real and interact here as if you don't know the answer to everything and as if every single day you're learning something new - that's what the rest of us do.

It's really the only way to really benefit and that's why the forum is here in the first place. fwiw.
 

Laura

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The thing that strikes me NOW as odd is the fact that just two nights before there was the big New Year's eve session with a whole slew of people in the house and you would think that he would have been gratified by that. But, I think that he wasn't because he wasn't made the CENTER of attention, the experiment was and he was just a part of it. So I think that the whole thing was brought on by him feeling resentment that people didn't practically bow down and worship him.
 

liffy

Jedi
Maybe he was beginning to realize that it actually wasn't himself that was the primary conduit for the C's; and his ego was attempting to uphold this illusion as long as possible?
 

Approaching Infinity

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Muxel said:
Turgon said:
This entire session seems corrupt and a justification for Frank's actions making him think it's okay, but a person who cares will admit to his faults and make a change so he doesn't continue to hurt the people around him.
Well you're probably right, Turgon. I guess I didn't sit too well with the idea that the C's are corruptible by their channel. Or maybe I impulsively felt like taking Frank's side – he doesn't get much love on this forum, does he. (No, bad joke, bad Muxel!)
Muxel, have you read Adventures with Cassiopaea (published as volumes 5 and 6 of the Wave)?
 
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