Session 20 August 2011

Stellaria_graminea

Padawan Learner
When searching on google for "Horrobin fatty acids schizophrenia", there were a lot of hits on scientific papers.

Here's a few examples:

Dietary supplementation for six weeks with 10 g per day of concentrated fish oil (MaxEPA) led to significant improvement in schizophrenic symptoms. This clinical improvement was related to the increased level of n-3 fatty acids in red cell membranes. These findings form part of a growing body of research data suggestive of an abnormality in cell membrane fatty acid composition in schizophrenia. The preliminary evidence for clinically effective dietary manipulation to correct such an abnormality opens up novel and exciting therapeutic possibilities.
Fatty acids and Schizophrenia, Laugharne, Mellor and Peet, Lipids, Volume 31, 163-165,
http://www.springerlink.com/content/43556n7020410487/

The phospholipid structure of neuronal membranes is essential for normal functioning of the nervous system. Evidence is accumulating that phospholipid metabolism in both brain and red blood cells may be disturbed in schizophrenia. In particular, in patients with negative symptoms, levels of arachidonic acid and docosahexanoic acid in red blood cell membrane phospholipids are severely abnormal. The membrane hypothesis of schizophrenia may represent a new and fruitful paradigm for future research.
The membrane hypothesis of schizophrenia, Horrobin, Glenb and Vaddadic, Schizophrenia Research, Volume 13, 1994, 195-207
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0920996494900434

There seems to be much research on the connection between fatty acids and schizophrenia. I just wonder to which degree this knowledge is actually used on people suffering from schizophrenia?

A central researcher on the connection between fatty acids and schizophrenia, David Horrobin, has also written this popularized book:
http://www.amazon.com/Madness-Adam-Eve-Schizophrenia-Humanity/dp/0593046498/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314396662&sr=8-1

Here, schizophrenia is postulated to be central in the evolution of humanity. The authors hypothesis is that a person with the potential for schizophrenia, on the diet humans are evolved to eat, the diet that sustains our large brains, have positive opportunities. This seems to be in line with seeing persons with schizophrenia as failed shamans, I think.

Also, it is stated here that schizophrenia and psychopathy are often found in the same families (different persons). I can't remember to have read this elsewhere, I have read the books written by Hare, Babiak and a few more not so well known, and a number of scientific papers. However, as there are both heritable psychopathy and schizophrenia in my family, this caught my attention. I wonder why this is correlated on a family level.

I do not have this book, I have only read about it, references to it. I would like to find more information on this.
 

herondancer

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pinokyo said:
i m waiting this trascript in Turkish cause my english is too bad as u see :P

Hi pinokyo,

Welcome to the forum. We suggest that new visitors introduce themselves in the newbies board. Don't worry about your English, we have members from all around the world, and we manage very well. Plus the more you participate, the better your English will become! :)
 

Mandrak

Jedi
The idea that eating animals helps in spiritual progress has some logic, I agree. Some tribes also believed in it. Something similar is mentioned in the books of Castaneda, that we are some kind of food for the Eagle, which feeds on human consciousness.
But it's really sad vision of the world.
This raises a whole series of questions about what would still be good to eat so we can be better people. Credo Mutwa has really had a jack pot because he had a chance to taste an alien who has an even higher consciousness than animals, possibly than humans too.

In the light of new information, this might be the way how to talk with someone from India: "The cow may be holy, but if you eat her, you also will become holy. Do not drink milk, just kill her. Give me the knife, I will show you."

I do not know, maybe I should eat meat to be smarter and understand this, but actually I have never seen a person who likes to eat lots of meat with higher awareness of the concerns about what's next on the menu.

This part of the session, it seems to be disagreed with the new sessions on the treatment of animals (I could not find the original English version, even on this site, this is a translation English - Croatian - English)

14/7/1996
Q: Why our animals are collected these pendants?

A: To increase the vibrational frequency.

Q: Is there something we could do? I think, do we need to get rid of the pets?

A: We would never advise something harsh as that. However, be aware: orientation STS 3rd density includes the thought of "domination" over the second densities, and this is just a continuation of the energy of creation of the upcoming wave of ... It is certainly one of the interesting lessons. When you assume that the capture and imprisonment of those with a smaller capacity than yours, it's "for good", why would not expect that those with greater capacity to do the same to you!?
------------------------------

Here at the forum mentioned Omega 3, but the fish is not the only source, because many seeds it contains. With the fish you get mercury also, which is not good for the brain.
 

Laura

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Mandrak said:
The idea that eating animals helps in spiritual progress has some logic, I agree. Some tribes also believed in it. Something similar is mentioned in the books of Castaneda, that we are some kind of food for the Eagle, which feeds on human consciousness.
But it's really sad vision of the world.

Only to an anthropocentric view of reality where man's ego continues to not only think that he is the acme of evolution but also somehow above Cosmic Law.

Mandrak said:
This raises a whole series of questions about what would still be good to eat so we can be better people. Credo Mutwa has really had a jack pot because he had a chance to taste an alien who has an even higher consciousness than animals, possibly than humans too.

He sez; there's no evidence that is true.

Mandrak said:
In the light of new information, this might be the way how to talk with someone from India: "The cow may be holy, but if you eat her, you also will become holy. Do not drink milk, just kill her. Give me the knife, I will show you."

Might actually improve conditions there.

Mandrak said:
I do not know, maybe I should eat meat to be smarter and understand this, but actually I have never seen a person who likes to eat lots of meat with higher awareness of the concerns about what's next on the menu.

Haven't met many people, have you?

Mandrak said:
This part of the session, it seems to be disagreed with the new sessions on the treatment of animals (I could not find the original English version, even on this site, this is a translation English - Croatian - English)

14/7/1996
Q: Why our animals are collected these pendants?

A: To increase the vibrational frequency.

Q: Is there something we could do? I think, do we need to get rid of the pets?

A: We would never advise something harsh as that. However, be aware: orientation STS 3rd density includes the thought of "domination" over the second densities, and this is just a continuation of the energy of creation of the upcoming wave of ... It is certainly one of the interesting lessons. When you assume that the capture and imprisonment of those with a smaller capacity than yours, it's "for good", why would not expect that those with greater capacity to do the same to you!?
------------------------------

I don't see any disagreement. Facts are facts.

Mandrak said:
Here at the forum mentioned Omega 3, but the fish is not the only source, because many seeds it contains. With the fish you get mercury also, which is not good for the brain.

You should do the research where you will find that seeds also contain many anti-nutrients - lectins and worse.
 

Nienna

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Mandrak said:
Here at the forum mentioned Omega 3, but the fish is not the only source, because many seeds it contains. With the fish you get mercury also, which is not good for the brain.

The mercury that is accumulated in fish is mostly contained in the muscle, not the fat. So if there is any mercury in fish oil, it is not as much as one would think. Also, the many companies that produce fish oil, run it through a filtering system which gets out even more of the mercury.

I'd rather take the fish oil, which is what the body is actually made to use, with the little amount of mercury that may be in it, rather than the seeds that have lots of anti-nutrients which actually do a lot of harm to the body.


Added: You really would get a lot of good research info in our Diet and Health section. Especially in the Life Without Bread and The Vegetarian Myth threads.
 

kenlee

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Mandrak said:
Here at the fo. rum mentioned Omega 3, but the fish is not the only source, because many seeds it contains. With the fish you get mercury also, which is not good for the brain.

I've been taking molecularly distilled fish oil for a month now for my Omega 3's and the pain in my joints, especially the constant pain in my shoulders where I have mild arthritis is gone. The true test is when I wake up in the morning. Ever since taking the fish oil the pain has gone away. I used to take flax oil but still had the pain in my joints. Not sure if other factors are involved to help the constant pain go away (such as eating fatty meats, the diet, mineral supplements, etc). Maybe the flax oil would have worked just as well, don't really know but I'm sticking with the fish oil since I've been feeling a lot better since taking it.
 
After reading the current C's transcript session and also other recent (2009 and after), and all comments about (very detailed, with precise references - thanks to all for sharing !) I am convinced that Vegetarianism is no sense (it could exist very few exceptions for very particular reasons).

From about 2 years I was on the track that Vegetarianism was not a so 'good idea' so to say.

I remember that more years ago my tendency was to say that my life would be better if I was fully vegetarian (and I was even introduced to Macobiotics by a girlfriend...).

So today this is very different consideration on food I build in mind.
 

Mikey

The Living Force
kenlee said:
I used to take flax oil but still had the pain in my joints. Not sure if other factors are involved to help the constant pain go away (such as eating fatty meats, the diet, mineral supplements, etc). Maybe the flax oil would have worked just as well, don't really know but I'm sticking with the fish oil since I've been feeling a lot better since taking it.

From the "Life without Bread" thread I know that flax seed oil is poorly absorbed in the gut (only about 30% if I remember correctly) and it has to be converted to be of any use by the body. So I think you can spare that money and invest into something more available: DHA and similar fat molecules.
 

Laura

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As some of ya'll know, I recently read about the "Aquatic Ape Hypothesis" by Elaine Morgen which is based on the work of Sir Alister Hardy. Anyway, as a result, I've picked up a few used copies of some of his books and started reading one the other night. It's entitled "The Living Stream: Evolution and Man." He talks about all life on Earth as a vast living stream flowing through time. He came to this idea by looking at graphs of all the various species, both extant and extinct, and how they look like a river system in reverse. He writes:

This metaphoric, metabolic, river of life flows forward and is continually splitting up into separate streams, those of the newly evolving species, as it advances; likewise we see countless such specific streams in the past becoming less and less, mere trickles, and eventually drying up as this or that rarity becomes extinct. In spite of these losses the advancing stream has extraordinary powers of building itself up. Life, if unchecked and with sufficient food to nourish it, would in all too short a time smother the world. We see it pushing itself into all kinds of unlikely corners and parasitically into the bodies of other forms of life. Far back in the fossil record of the Paleozoic age, we see branches of the stream leaving its original home in the sea and advancing upon the newly raised continents of the land, first the plants derived from the marine algae and then the animals feeding upon the plants.

When we look at the life that has invaded the land and consider it as a floral and faunistic layer, the biosphere as it is sometimes called, covering the earth, we realise how thin a film it is compared with the bulk of the globe; it is like a mould growing on the surface of a cheese, or like the bloom on the surface of a plum. We ourselves are part of that film; how insignificant it might seem to a distant observer from another world...

...is it entirely folly to compare this living stream with a physical river system? We see that as it flows in time it is indeed like a river flowing in space, but in reverse.

A physical stream always runs downhill, rarely divides into branches, but is fed by little tributaries - just the opposite of our stream of life.

The fact is so obvious...

Like the rest of the universe, a physical stream of water is obeying the second law of thermodynamics; manifesting the property we term entropy.

Erwin Schroedinger, in his remarkable little book "What is Life" and also in his "Science and Human Temperament" suggested that one of the characteristics distinguishing a living organism from the rest of the material world is the fact that it feeds upon "negative entropy". He explains what he means as follows:

It is by avoiding the rapid decay into the inert state of "equilibrium", that an organism appears so enigmatic; so much so, that from the earliest times of human thought some special non-physical or supernatural force (vis viva, entelechy) was claimed to be operative in the organism, and in some quarters is still claimed.

How does the living organism avoid decay? The obvious answer is: by eating, drinking, breathing and (in the case of plants) assimilating. The technical term is metabolism. The Greek word means change or exchange.

Exchange of what?

Originally the underlying idea is, no doubt, exchange of material. That the exchange of material should be the essential thing is absurd. Any atom of nitrogen, oxygen, sulphur, etc., is as good as any other of its kind; what could be gained by exchanging them?

What then is that precious something contained in our food which keeps us from death? That is easily answered. Every process, event, happening - call it what you will; in a word, everything that is going on in Nature means in increase of the entropy of the part of the world where it is going on. Thus a living organism continually increases its entropy - or as you might say, produces positive entropy - and thus tends to approach the dangerous stat of maximum entropy, which is death. It can only keep aloof from it, i.e. alive, by continually drawing from its environment negative entropy - which is something very positive as we shall immediately see. What an organism feeds on is negative entropy. Or, to put it less paradoxically, the essential thing in metabolism is that the organism succeeds in freeing itself from all the entropy it cannot help producing while alive.

... it is clear that throughout the whole organic progression from the simpler molecules up to the more advanced animal structures we see higher and higher levels of integration being developed... It is the simpler side of it, that of the living stream "marching up hill" that I find interesting in relation to the analogy of a river in reverse. This idea may be thought just too naive to be considered, but sometimes the simple hides the more profound.

Of course I realise that any animal goes up hill by using fuel just as does a man-made engine - and as a rule it may be driven up mountains, or from the sea on to the land (or in the reverse direction) by competition for food; and further that it is the great reproductive pressure, driving its stream forward, together with new adaptations fitting the animal to more and more difficult terrains, that we are considering, and not simply upward locomotion. Nevertheless out of this process of evolution, from somewhere has come the urge, or love of adventure, in Man, that can drive him to risk his life in climbing Everest or in reaching the South Pole or the Moon. Is it too naive to believe that this exploratory drive, this curiosity, has had its beginnings in something that is fundamental to the stream of life? ...

I think it likely that the "forces" of curiosity, love and the numinous also belong to the part of the Universe that is consciousness but that they are somehow experienced not by means of the ordinary bodily sense organs...
 

Mr. Premise

The Living Force
Great excerpt!!! Looks like Sir Alister was one scientist who had real understanding. Puts the STS/STO and Entropy/Creativity opposition in a new light. Interesting term, 'negative entropy'.
 

knowledge_of_self

The Living Force
I don't want to take away from this thread, :offtopic: but I wanted to comment on how many synchronicities are happening for my boyfriend and I right now regarding the French culture. We happen to be on a holiday right now in France and just finished up in Paris and had an awful time. I won't go into detail here, because I will be writing all about it in a travel log, but once I finish, I'll post it here.

We just arrived in Nice, and our first night is going well... nothing compared to what we experienced in Paris but it's still more or less the same because well...it's still France. At least the weather is nicer here and people seem to be a little less cold. :/
 

herondancer

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I'm sorry to hear that Deedlet. I spent four days in Paris in2007, and had a lovely time. Even when my transit pass stopped working and I was freaking out a little, a transit officer helped me out by explaining that this happened all the time, and if I could wait till the lunch hour was over, it would be replaced with no problem. He even went into the back office twenty minutes before they would re-open and got it done for me.
 
I find this well to have 2 different tonalities here : herondancer : awfal time | Deedlet : lovely time.

When France decided not to participate to war against Iraq, the most disgusting words where used by US and Canada people to talk about French people; when it appeared that the statements used for justifying this war were built on lies, it was easy at this new time to interview US people saying that the French attitude was valiant. Because working for a US big company and travelling at this time I kow what I am talking about.


Relativity of things...

I think also the attitude as foreigner we have in visiting another country interfer with indigen habits, and sometimes in subtil manners.

Paris (except its monuments...) is not representative of France. (I feel sad when seeing Parisians having agressive attitudes towards tourists - yes there is something really to make better and some decision makers who are aware of that want really to change it..)

Today there are more and more UK and US people (more or less rich and famous) who are buying typical old houses in France countrysides where it is estimated fine to be living. If French people being also living there were so 'horrible', do you think they will do that?

This does not mean I am not aware of the negative points listed in previous posts. I live in Paris and this not an easy way today, let me tell you if I am able to get a good job in my native countryside I will do.
 
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