Slavic thinking

[Gruchaa]

Hello,

What I thought about lately is a way of thinking and doing by Slavic people (mostly I mean polish, cause I am polish and living here).
So, I am working in one of big american company which produce jet engines for airplanes. On daily Basis I am working with Americans and of course Polish people. And I see one big difference between these two nations. Americans if they need to do something which has some kind of procedure with rules in it, they need to do exactly What is said by this procedure and rules in it. While polish people (including me) will also follow the rules, but not so literally. They will try to find the best and the quickest way to do that but not necessary will follow every step, every letter. They will contrive, try to think and figure out simpler way.

I would like to ask you if you have similar experiences or is it just only my thinking? Maybe other nations Thinks differently?
Also do you think that this is connected to the genetics?

Thanks,
Gruchaa

 

[Possibility of Being]

Hello Gruchaa,
A topic worth some serious studies, or maybe there have been done some?
Yes, it seems similar to me. There is a distinct difference in thinking and in emotionality in general. It can be connected to the genes, but more in an epigenetic sense, I'd think. Harsh life throughout history - oppressors from each side and bellicose own elites - plus an eternal internal conflict to which part of the world (culture, philosophy, spirituality) Poles belong and/or strive to belong - it's quite a mess and must have left an imprint on the nation. BTW, the difference is even more pronounced between Russians and Americans (or Westerners in general, though maybe to a lesser extent in continental Europe) but at least it seems better defined, so to say, since Russians are less torn, or confused, than the nations geographically closer to the West.

And yes, the Poles like doing things "their own way", which is beneficial in some situations (inventing something new, better or simpler, dealing with unexpected problems in a creative way, and so on) and detrimental in others (like the notorious plane crash for example). On the other hand, following established procedures - i.e. the American way - is a pretty safe. They have a rather well developed and widely used legal system of personal responsibility for causing damage that probably contributed to that tendency.

Looking at the subject in a bit wider sense, Poles seem to be high in disagreeability (proverbial "where there are two Poles, there are three opinions") and low in conscientiousness and openness - which is a bit of an explosive mix. Taken all together, the make-up is not an easy one to navigate if someone is inclined to look at it closely and sort it out with the aim of becoming a sovereign individual. Not that Americans/ Westerners have it easy - they have their own issues imprinted, one of them being "western-centrism", or how they perceive their position in the world (at the top).

 

[Gruchaa]

Hi PoB, Thanks for reply! I do not know if someone already did some studies on that topic or not. I will try to dig a little in a free time.
I agree with you, and want to add a little bit to this concept of the internat conflict. I think that this could be very beneficial if someone can use it. This life in between two cultures gives you Opportunity to observe/learn how these two cultures operate and take out which is potentially the best out of each. I was in the USA few times and also in Ukraine i.e. My conclusion is that in Poland the conditions to live are quite balanced. Majority of people lives decent. They are not so reach as Americans, but also not so poor like Ukrainians. In the other hand we do not have so big amounts of homeless people on the street like in the USA and cities are more safe. But the trick is, how Poles can use these opportunities?

Additionally, I Heard this sentence in some polish rap song:

„
Admittedly horizons are not too broad here, poor tastes
(But) Where can they suppose so beautifully?
Where would so wild crowds go along the way of fantasy?
The whole of my country closed in “What if” ?”
And this also true that Poles often says: „if i would have so much money like my neighborhood I would for sure give 20% for poors” and similar. This is weird.

 

[SevenFeathers]

I was born in the US, but I think much as you do, Gruchaa. I use instructions as a guideline, then find the best way to do something. But I don't work on airplane engines! I am just a "paper-pusher". However, I often find the instructions given by my employer are not very logical or efficient, so I follow the general outline of the instructions, but do not always follow them specifically, especially if I can find a quicker or more efficient way to get the work done.

 

[biala84]

Shortly about the matter that You are saying from my experience since i visit and lived another countries i observe that no matter where you live where the system exist You will meet people that think as human beings and You can find a people who rather follow who other's are doing a or follow the rules that other's are creating. The environment, genes, our ancient ,experience and Our choices create Us.

 

[Possibility of Being]

@biała, you are of course right, bu we talk more in line of general, or average, tendencies shaped by a nation's genes, culture and shared history, among other factors. And most likely, as everything else of this kind, the pattern adheres, more or less, to The Bell Curve.

Another related aspect is how language shapes our thinking and perception. There is a branch of psychology and linguistics called psycholinguistics, but it mostly focuses on how people learn languages. As far as I know, much less research is done in the other direction, mentioned above. I'd love to find some studies or books on this topic.

For those interested, there is a quite recent article by Konrad Rekas, whom I like even though I don't necessarily agree with everything he writes, titled Poles – Traitors or Lost Slavic Brothers? I only scanned through it briefly and added it to my "to read" list, so FWIW.

 

[Possibility of Being]

But the trick is, how Poles can use these opportunities?

As you've said, there are good things and not so good on each side, and being in the middle, as hard as it is, gives also the opportunity to pick up the better part of each. But "better" is subjective, so it's not that easy. Anyway, the best use of this fact would be, in my opinion, to strive to be a bridge between those two in contrast to being "the last buffer" as it is now. Unfortunately, there is too much of Russophobia (fueled by everyone knows whom) and too much of looking up to "Hamerica" for that to be possible in the near future. Probably a few more harsh lessons and a few more generations are needed, IF it's ever going to happen.

 

[Hi_Henry]

Unfortunately, there is too much of Russophobia (fueled by everyone knows whom) and too much of looking up to "Hamerica" for that to be possible in the near future.

This will not end until the "owners" of the media give the order to stop the BS started by "them".

Russophobia is NOT "The Will of the People". It is as fake as Queen Elizabeth being a charitable women but as long as the Masses are fed the rich diet of "Lies" it will only get worst. The long range effect will be that the mind set of the young generations will be hardwired for this point of view.

PS: Off topic but this give another data point to what I said in the last paragraph,

Fake is Fake
All this is nothing new. It has been happening in the Past but what we are watching now is an all out gloves off use of it. Why? Because the "Big Scam" needs to be buried along with the witnesses who are approaching retirement age.

 

[Gruchaa]

Anyway, the best use of this fact would be, in my opinion, to strive to be a bridge between those two in contrast to being "the last buffer" as it is now.

Totally agree with that statement! And as Henry wrote, this russophobia is more created by media and politics than people itself.

 

[Ina]

If you look at work and work style and thinking within the work context in my opinion the main factors that determine ‘the work style’ are the education system and age and the company culture. Western education system has long been promoting specialised education even at undergraduate levels. With that unavoidably comes the recipe style learning. The eastern system by comparison promoted the broad tertiary education basically alowing the graduate to think within the range of an entire domain. The work behavior was focused on personal responsibility. The age and the company culture also play an important roles. The younger the workforce the more diverse roles, the rstronger the company rule system. That allows reduced individual work responsibility on work quality and enforces the optimum financial balance between spending and earnings. Actually it pushes the balance on increased earnings. So following rules is the required work behavior.

 

[Hi_Henry]

If you look at work and work style and thinking within the work context in my opinion the main factors that determine ‘the work style’ are the education system and age and the company culture.

I will share a bit of my experience here. When I worked in Argentina, there was definitely a "work style". I am not saying is was good or it was bad, there simply was their unique work style. The professional cast (I'm an engineer) would come to work at 10 in the morning and OF COURSE would leave later than 4 PM. Usually around 6 PM. When going to meetings do not expect the Argentine side to come on time. The big guy will come late and will expect you to wait on him. In office, ambiance is very tempered and formal but cordial. Everyone does their job and at least where I was they got the job done. If they needed to stay late they did. Once you got to know the people well you were treated like family.

Now when I worked in Russia things were completely different. I repeat, when I was there !!! In office the ambiance was very subdued. Emotional level completely frozen. Formality to the extreme. That waas the cultural norm that I saw there. But that was then balanced by very sharp people. I mean very sharp. What some were able to pick up in no time I was completely dumbfounded. I have in mind a lady in her early 40's who picked the ability to run first generation computer simulation software. Amazing.

 

[Ina]

I will share a bit of my experience here. When I worked in Argentina, there was definitely a "work style". I am not saying is was good or it was bad, there simply was their unique work style. The professional cast (I'm an engineer) would come to work at 10 in the morning and OF COURSE would leave later than 4 PM. Usually around 6 PM. When going to meetings do not expect the Argentine side to come on time. The big guy will come late and will expect you to wait on him. In office, ambiance is very tempered and formal but cordial. Everyone does their job and at least where I was they got the job done. If they needed to stay late they did. Once you got to know the people well you were treated like family.

Now when I worked in Russia things were completely different. I repeat, when I was there !!! In office the ambiance was very subdued. Emotional level completely frozen. Formality to the extreme. That waas the cultural norm that I saw there. But that was then balanced by very sharp people. I mean very sharp. What some were able to pick up in no time I was completely dumbfounded. I have in mind a lady in her early 40's who picked the ability to run first generation computer simulation software. Amazing.

I also worked in Argentina, in Salta, and by origin I am Romanian, and I had three years of worforce experience before emigrating to South Africa. My domain of work is mineral exploration, which should involve theoretically, the least regimentation. In Argentina I worked with young graduates. I had the same experience with the management. The ‘troops’ were very pleasant and quite well prepared. Having a 10days Puna one week office the atmosphere was very relaxed and nonjudgmental, creative and very productive. I have never experienced the russian work-style however from the romanian perspective I can relate to your comments. The communist work style was based on quality standards, work discipline and 100% formality. Just the other day I was telling my grown up kids how at the age of three at the nursery school the kids were addressing the educator comrade surname. They laughed. To go back to your comment, you probably went to one of the larger cities. In my time the jobs with large companies or in large cities went to graduates with high or highest results. Perhaps now is the same. Regarding the emotional side, I don’t think it is lacking . I think people are more serious and focussed at what they do.