Smolensk 2010 polish presidential plane crash

osher

Jedi
Dear Laura, i would be greatful if you asked C's about the cause of polish presidential plane crash in Smolensk, 2010.
 

Keit

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
neonix said:
And why the Russians don't want to return plane wreck of Tupolev Tu-154?
Here's what the C's said about the crash:

Sesson 27 February 2016 said:
(Joe) The crash of the Polish government plane in 2010 in Smolensk had most of the Polish government at the time onboard, and they all died. Was it a result of pilot error?

A: Arrogance.

Q: (L) Pilot arrogance?

A: Yes
As for the wreckage, don't know about it. Maybe it has to do with bureaucracy, or anything else, but surely after the above it bears no real importance? I am not really aware of all the details, just know that certain authorities in Poland have an invested interest in making this story something it isn't. fwiw.
 

Gawan

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Hi neonix,

regarding this topic this is what the C's said in February this year:

Laura said:
(Joe) The crash of the Polish government plane in 2010 in Smolensk had most of the Polish government at the time onboard, and they all died. Was it a result of pilot error?

A: Arrogance.

Q: (L) Pilot arrogance?

A: Yes
neonix said:
And why the Russians don't want to return plane wreck of Tupolev Tu-154?
It's a long time ago and I could imagine that the main reason is, since it crashed on Russian territory it would be enough for investigation and the technical equipment should be sufficient to do so. Beside there could be a strong bias from the EU to push Russia and to draw a negative picture on Russia.
 

Michal

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Hi
Answer from C's does not answer on details but is answering on the cause of the crash.
For me the possibility is that pilot's arogance was his greatest enemy in that case... Just like "knowledge protects ignorance endangers" saying. And from this session answer there is no implication whether there were or were not any other parties involved but simply whatever dangerous aroused during flight to Smolensk 2010 pilot made it worse. Like for example during car drive speeding and considering other "slow" drivers as woosies.

I am not sure but this answer was like answering but not trying to say too much. It is possible that this crash may still have great importance for shaping Polish political scene and thus having some influence on geopolitics. This influence is more or less making Poland step into the war. NATO or USA would be more than happy if they got few milions of cannon fodder to weaken Russia and what more free of charge as probably a lot of Poles would go fight Putin for honour and justice. Situtaion in Poland is very much unstable. This plane crash could have been used as false flag very easily.
I listened to one guy yesterday talking about new parlimentary act allowing foreign forces to station and more important lead operations on Polish ground being under command of external command centres. So having brigade of Americans in Poland and missile "defence???" system could be very easily used as valid background for some Russian attack let say preventive attack. All media in Poland are not Polish ... that is not important... they are simply all pro-USA, pro NATO. There is big indoctrination of Polish citizens to put them into beligorous state of mind and accept NATO as the only way for my country.
I hope Polish governement will not inniciate anything to incite war but they are actually so dependent on NATO and USA that I have pessimism as it comes to future of Poland. Crash was very important but we can see even without it direction in whcih current Polish establishement is leading it's people. WAR.
Excuse me for talking too much - this is how I see it.
 

angelburst29

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
This site might be of interest on the Smolensk air crash; for it's devoted to a series of articles on the subject. After the introduction and three featured articles, there's a red arrow at the bottom of the page indicating "More News" >> click that and you will notice - there are 12 pages (of 3-4 articles each).

As for the "Pilot arrogance?" - there are numerous reports that the Airport Tower had warned the Pilots of the plane, "not to land - due to thick fog and low visibility" yet the Pilot was confident, he could land the plane?

And why the Russians don't want to return plane wreck of Tupolev Tu-154?
I would imagine, the Russian's are holding the wreckage of the plane in a secure area, so evidence won't be tampered with and when the Political climate is conductive to mutual Diplomatic dialog, full assess to the plane wreckage will be granted, under controlled terms?

I don't think Russia is hiding anything, as far as motive is concerned? Considering the High Status of the plane's occupants, it's the only material evidence of what happened. Russia should be commended for the foresight and common sense, in securing the wreckage?

http://smolenskcrash.eu/
 

strvmm

The Force is Strong With This One
I'd like to join to this question, and recommend to watch movie about Smoleńsk the Premiere was on 5th September 2016 (World) and 9th September (Poland). And as I thought, Politicians and whole the governments heads are trying to tell us that - 'The image presented in this movie ISN'T real - it wasn't attack' don't know if there's a thread about it, the 'Search' function does not show this one, if you want to speak more about it we make a special thread. Thanks ! :)
 

Janek

The Force is Strong With This One
strvmm said:
I'd like to join to this question, and recommend to watch movie about Smoleńsk the Premiere was on 5th September 2016 (World) and 9th September (Poland).
Why would You recommend this movie as it seems to be pure fantasy? It's not based on facts and I don't see it bringing any closer to the truth about that event.

strvmm said:
And as I thought, Politicians and whole the governments heads are trying to tell us that - 'The image presented in this movie ISN'T real - it wasn't attack'
Maybe that's what they're saying but certainly that's not what they're doing. Since this catastrophy today's ruling party PiS is trying to implement the idea in the society that there was this conspiracy between Polish government and Russians to kill the President. They may not always speek it out loud, but their actions speek for themselves. That movie is part of it. And the worst consequence of this movie is further division of the nation.
 

strvmm

The Force is Strong With This One
Janek said:
strvmm said:
I'd like to join to this question, and recommend to watch movie about Smoleńsk the Premiere was on 5th September 2016 (World) and 9th September (Poland).
Why would You recommend this movie as it seems to be pure fantasy? It's not based on facts and I don't see it bringing any closer to the truth about that event.

Yeah, you're right. I recommend this movie just in science of examine way for yourself. I didn't say that it's great or amazing just to watch it and make your own about it, that's all.

strvmm said:
And as I thought, Politicians and whole the governments heads are trying to tell us that - 'The image presented in this movie ISN'T real - it wasn't attack'
Maybe that's what they're saying but certainly that's not what they're doing. Since this catastrophy today's ruling party PiS is trying to implement the idea in the society that there was this conspiracy between Polish government and Russians to kill the President. They may not always speek it out loud, but their actions speek for themselves. That movie is part of it. And the worst consequence of this movie is further division of the nation.
And that is something that I already know. I just make my mind.
 

4d candidate

The Force is Strong With This One
Recently before Christmas Holidays Vadimir Putin cut all the speculation about the crash in Smolensk. He said the mainstream media that he personally read the transcript of the black boxes of the airplane just before the crash and confirmed as one of the member of protection guard of President Kaczynski put pressure on the pilot to land here and now, because his boss (Kaczynski) does not take to his knowledge of other variants.
The question is why for many years the message has never been officially confirmed by the Polish government agents, although this thesis from the beginning of the disaster scrolled in the media, and then suddenly stopped. The terrifying incompetence command of Polish army was masked and tried to turn the tables and blamed for the crash of Russia and President Putin. Wild conspiracy theories that appeared at that time around the crash in Smolensk in the Polish media probably had no equal in their numbers during the last years.
Topic to close.
 

Ant22

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
4d candidate said:
(...) Wild conspiracy theories that appeared at that time around the crash in Smolensk in the Polish media probably had no equal in their numbers during the last years.
Topic to close.
Personally, I tend to think that if a conspiracy is all over the mainstream media, it is not really a conspiracy- it's mainstream propaganda. And it does seem to be the case here too.
Given the current anti-Putin MSM disinformation and the fact that Kaczynski and his crew were all very pro-west / pro-American, I'm not surprised at all the mainstream media has been projecting all these "wild conspiracies" for 6 years now.

The question is why for many years the message has never been officially confirmed by the Polish government (...)
Maybe because overtly revealing the truth didn't fit into the anti-Russia propaganda, while the "wild conspiracies" did? The Polish government is pro-US and therefore by default anti-Russian. The same media that kept the "wild conspiracies" going now talk about the fall of Aleppo.

I can definitely accept the "arrogance" explanation provided by the C's. Just my two cents ;)
 

angelburst29

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
As for the "Pilot arrogance?" - there are numerous reports that the Airport Tower had warned the Pilots of the plane, "not to land - due to thick fog and low visibility" yet the Pilot was confident, he could land the plane?
June 5, 2019 - Analysis of fragments of Kaczynski’s crashed plane points to crew error
Analysis of fragments of Kaczynski’s crashed plane points to crew error


© Maxim Shemetov/TASS, archive

MOSCOW, June 5, 2019 - Employees of the Russian Investigative Committee, along with their Polish colleagues, have analyzed the fragments of the Tu-154M plane belonging to former Polish President Lech Kaczynski, which crashed near Smolensk in 2010. The analysis points to a crew error as the reason for the crash, the Russian Investigative Committee’s press service informed TASS.

"Joint analysis of the fragments of the Polish Tu-154M plane, which crashed in April 2010, has been concluded in Smolensk by the employees of the Russian Investigative Committee and members of the Polish competent bodies, once again initiated by the Polish colleagues," the Investigative Committee said. "All analyzed materials definitively point to an error by the crew, who continued its attempts to land in conditions of non-visibility."

The Tupolev-154M presidential plane of the Polish Air Force crashed in the morning of April 10, 2010 while trying to land at the Smolensk North Airport, killing 8 crew and 88 passengers, including President Lech Kaczynski. Criminal investigations are continuing in Poland and Russia.

The Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC) experts concluded that the crash happened as a result of the actions of crew, who had made the wrong decision to land under difficult weather conditions and under psychological pressure. The Polish government commission also named the crews mistakes among the causes of the crash, as well as the fact that the pilot ignored the TAWS
(Terrain awareness and warning system) signals to prevent unintentional impact with the ground.


The Law and Justice Polish political party chaired by Jaroslaw Kaczynski, twin brother of the deceased Lech Kaczynski, disputed these conclusions initiated a revision of the experts’ work in 2015 by forming an updated sub-commission for investigating plane catastrophes.
 
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