sourdough "do nothng" bread making

SlavaOn

Jedi Master
Hello.

I have had my first hands-on experience with making a kind of sourdough bread called "Do nothing bread". It was based on instructions that I found here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwu3KgbhTsU My goal was to make the bread that is more nutritious, agreeable to my taste (I love the sourness of sourdough bread and crunchiness of the crust) and easier to digest. I read that the fermenting naturally destroys phytic acid present in the grains... The benefits of "do nothing" sourdough vs the recipe where the dough is folded numerous times to create a better shaped loaves was also explained here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0gOHPsAqFw Apparently, the folding breaks up the proteins and in the process the elements are recombining into structures that are harder to digest, thus providing less nutrition... The wild yeasts give the sour taste when the baker's or beer type yeasts would rise the dough quicker giving the bread a bland taste...

I am looking for an advice from someone with bread making experience and will share the mistakes that I have made. I am posting the bread recipe and the surrounding details below. I will address every aspect separately, since the failures were met at many steps of that process. Some of them I identified, but not all...

The recipe:
10 gr of starter
900 gr of water
600 gr of whole wheat flour
400 gr of bread flour
20 gr of salt
Mixed ingredients should sit for 24 hours before baking.

- I made the leaven for over 3 days from the wild yeasts that are in the air inside the house. It seemed to work.
- The dough after 24 hours of sitting had a lot of bubbles inside, but it was very liquidy and sticky. I was not able to form it into any shape. To prevent the dough from sticking to the oven's floor, I put it on a wax paper. The paper was properly incorporated into the loaf during the baking process. There was no way to peel it or otherwise get rid of it. Luckily I was able to eat the baked bread and didn't taste the paper in it.
- This was the 1st time that I used the outdoor oven to bake breads. I watched several videos on youTube, but still screwed up. I left the unburned logs and coals in it while the bread was baking. The temperature was too high and after 25 minutes one bread was burnt to a crisp.
- I put two loaves in two cast iron Dutch ovens. The one placed close to the entrance was not as hot and I salvaged that loaf. Although, it did not rise properly and the inside was not properly baked.

I am doing a 2nd batch now give it 48 hours to ferment. Will bake it on Sunday and update on the results...

SlavaOn
 

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lids4321

Padawan Learner
Great descriptions there SlavaOn - I think you've just motivated me to try the recipe out for myself. I have some holidays coming up in the near future so I'll devote some time to this new adventure. Thanks for sharing and inspiring.
 

osher

Jedi
Are you aware grains are discouraged here, because they are extremely unhealthy and highly addictive? What advice do you seek? My would be: abandon grains and seeds in general.
 

monotonic

The Living Force
Yeah, I don't think you will find any bread eaters here. Maybe one or two. Sometimes people dig up really old (REALLY old) threads on this forum where someone says something about sourdough being better and then go off on a baking spree. Unfortunately we haven't found any healthy way to eat wheat, and most of us do so much better without it that we don't feel like revisiting the past.
 

lids4321

Padawan Learner
I am aware of breads unhealthy reputation and my health has improved significantly since I cut right back on it. I still had the idea however that sourdough was okay in small amounts. It seems I was mistaken and it shows a lapse in my thinking whereby I've created an exception to the rule without examing or researching my reasons for it. So perhaps I should use some of my upcoming holiday time for extra learning instead of baking.
 

WIN 52

The Living Force
osher said:
Are you aware grains are discouraged here, because they are extremely unhealthy and highly addictive? What advice do you seek? My would be: abandon grains and seeds in general.
Good idea.

Unless all there is to eat are grains.
 

SlavaOn

Jedi Master
osher said:
Are you aware grains are discouraged here, because they are extremely unhealthy and highly addictive? What advice do you seek? My would be: abandon grains and seeds in general.

Hello Osher.

I am well aware of that. In fact, I was expecting comments like this. There is a reason that I posted about my experience here.

I do not see the world of bread as black and white. I.e. eat any bread or nothing. There is a huge number of people who do eat bread and they do visit this forum. The hardliners like you already made a choice - not to eat any bread period. The people that has not decided to go cold turkey, may benefit from information that there are kinds of breads that are easier on their digestive system. Unfortunately, these kinds of bread maybe not be available on the store shelves, where these people shop, and they would have to make such bread themselves. This is my situation. I came from the bread eating culture of Russia. This was a staple food there in my time and still is. Only the breads they make now are not as nutritious as they used to be. They adopted Western technologies of quick raising breads...

The science of bread making found what is making the bread bad for your health: glutenins and gliadins class proteins, phytic acids. By combining the traditional methods of making leaven from wild yeasts with proper modern techniques, using various grains that do not contain as much glutenins as wheat does, it is possible to make breads that people can eat.

I agree that if I could replace breads with meats, wild grains (I am not listing milk and nuts in that list since you know that they are bad for your health too) all breadmaking would be a waste of my time. Only, I can't afford the expense.... And, being a prepper, I have to learn the craft of cooking when the electricity runs out. One can't learn that craft by reading alone: you have to build wood fired outdoor oven first and get the skills to use it second.

SlavaOn
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Unfortunately, suggesting that there is a "good way" to make wheat bread is seriously misleading and will give many the impression that it is not as harmful to the health as it actually is. There is enough research showing that there really isn't any way to make wheat good for you; at best, it could be eaten in emergencies, when nothing else is available.

It is probably more helpful to spend time figuring out how to make breads out of things that are less damaging than wheat.

So, no, it's not acceptable to promote this.
 

monotonic

The Living Force
I don't know of any non-wheat flours that rise with yeast or without the help of some eggs and baking soda. But the pork rhind bread is pretty good.

I don't consider myself a hard-liner, I've certainly had my share of lapses. To say I don't eat wheat because of an obsession is a pretty over-cynical view of why I do what I do. The first rule of diet is simply, don't eat things that make you sick. For me the consequences of eating wheat are obvious. Even someone who tolerates wheat (if such a person exists) is still not getting much valuable nutrition from it.
 

lids4321

Padawan Learner
Hmmmm..making a "sourdough type" bread from non- wheat flours. Now that sounds like an interesting area for research in my upcoming holidays. I welcome any suggestions.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
We've made yeast bread with rice flour and potato starch. You do need to put some eggs in for binding; it's very good. I even think I might try a sourdough variation if I can get the starter working right.
 

SlavaOn

Jedi Master
I am not a wheat bread advocate. I still eat bread and so does my family. I am looking for alternatives to store bought breads. That is why I am trying to learn how to make a different bread for ourselves and share my experience with others. I guess, it could be misleading for some and could fool someone that there is a "good way" to make bread...

Since the tribe has spoken, I will cease posting about wheat bread here. I have a stock of barley, buckwheat, rye (darn, it also has gluten) and spelt (darn, that's still a wheat). I will share my experience if I will have any success in baking with those healthy grains. I would appreciate if someone could tell me where to get teff in the US at a decent price...

SlavOn
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
If you tolerate barley, buckwheat, spelt etc, no reason to not try to work with them. After some experimenting, we found that they are far less reactive for many people though I still can't eat them.
 

Chu

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
SlavaOn said:
I am not a wheat bread advocate. I still eat bread and so does my family. I am looking for alternatives to store bought breads. That is why I am trying to learn how to make a different bread for ourselves and share my experience with others. I guess, it could be misleading for some and could fool someone that there is a "good way" to make bread...

Yeah... AFAIK, fermentation is a process that involves sugar. It doesn't solve the problem with gluten (protein), which is suspected to affect at least 70% of the population because of the composition in modern grains. But some types of protein are more tolerable than others, depending on the person. You would have to try and see.
 

sid

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Hi Slava

I am one of those who grew up as a vegetarian for 24 years eating breads pretty much everyday. After having discovered the harmful effects of wheat and most of the veggies (huge thanks to the group), I have made a conscious effort to drop them altogether from my diet. It hasn't been easy at all as I have had to fight off cravings as well as emotional hooks, arguments, fights and tantrums of people around me. Also, it is incredibly hard to acquire the taste of meat for a long time vegetarian. Now, I go days without eating any wheat or dairy whatsoever and getting better at managing this. Occasionally, I do end up eating some bread but in very moderate quantity and my aim is to remove that as well completely in time.
My health has been super excellent due to this, all of my shoulder pains are gone, my lower back feels stronger as I am able to lift heavier objects without feeling exhausted/tired or pulling any muscle. I feel younger in my mind and heart and does not suffer from post 3:00 pm lethargy. That combined with other changes that I have brought in my life due to some painful but important lessons, I have become better at fighting off viruses and hay fever which would always strike me every few weeks. Not trying to be overconfident as next attack is always round the corner and often more vicious than before, I am truly surprised at what I am capable of now, it feels calm and re-assuring.
Diet changes are essentially a part of the work that we are undertaking. One cannot really be doing the work if all aspects are not taken into consideration. Besides, each improvement made in a certain area will often result in new realisations in other areas and completion/conclusion of lessons and also prepares one to face next set of challenges. Surprisingly, everything is connected with everything else.

Having said that, this is not for the ones with a faint heart and requires sheer bloody mindedness at times. Better go hungry than eat any bread - your stomach will thank you for it. One may not achieve it one day but try and introduce one small change everyday and it will add up to be a massive one.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Sid
 
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