Spending your money - on what?

Minas Tirith

Jedi Council Member
(KJN) What is the status of the money system in the United States? If you have money in the bank, can you leave it there, or should we be doing something more proactive?

A: If you store it with the fox, you will lose it at some point rather soon.

Q: (Odyssey) On the money issue, would it be a good idea to invest in silver or gold?

A: Partly, but what about "needful things"?

Q: (KJN) So we should spend it on things we need now, versus spending it on gold or putting in a bank or that kind of thing?

A: Mostly. Money will soon be worthless, ownership will survive awhile longer.

Session April 26, 2014

What do you think are the best things to buy under such circumstances? What if you have savings?
What kind of ownership would be the best? If I would live in the country I would probably get some chicken and a veggie garden, but what about folks in town?

I might be a bit under the weather today, but I am not coming up with any ideas ...

M.T.
 
Well, I think it could be a good idea to invest in tobacco, among other things. That's a pretty survivalist approach, but tobacco (and lighters) will be great for trading (and of course for smoking ! :cool2: ), much better than gold or silver coins, when SHTF.
 
Gold and silver are good to rescue large savings into the next system, once things settle down - hoping that they do. Make sure to get actual physical metals. For the initial time it is best to have some cash on hand while and if people will still accept it and then of course food and water and other basic necessities. Tobacco, lighters, toilet paper, etc.
 
I have similar thoughts: what are the "needful" things? I came up with the following: foodstaff (ghee, coconut oil, canned meat, cacao), tabacco, medical supplements, hygiene articles... These are all the staff which people need on a daily basis so it can be bartered. I think/hope it will be a controllable collapse, so it's important to invest money in these things before it gets worthless and a new world currency or whatever will be introduced.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KTC
Will silver and gold get their worth? Just wondering. In worst case scenario I'm not sure if people would want to collect or hoard stuff that doesn't prolong survival... The barter system might flourish. I'm thinking rice and canned food. Toiletries too.
 
Cubbie said:
Will silver and gold get their worth? Just wondering. In worst case scenario I'm not sure if people would want to collect or hoard stuff that doesn't prolong survival... The barter system might flourish. I'm thinking rice and canned food. Toiletries too.

For the barter phase, if or when it comes, it is best to have actual goods. Precious metals are really for the time after when a new currency arrives. When banks close down and credit cards and ATM's stop working, for that initial time cash on hand is a good idea.
 
In his book How to Survive the End of the World As We Know It, James Wesley Rawles advises to first get what you need before thinking about buying items to barter.

Making lists of things you will need helps to break down what you should buy, as this can be a bit overwhelming: water, food, things needed to prepare and store the food, personal things (depending on your needs: reading glasses, special medication, tobacco, etc.), hygiene and sanitation items, natural antibiotics, supplements, remedies, batteries, gardening items, hunting/fishing/trapping items, power/lighting/batteries, fuels, tools, communications items, etc.

Then you can also spend some money on having a dental clean up (it's often forgotten how important oral health is, especially with regards to cardiovascular diseases), the surgery you've been postponing, getting the prescription for medication you need, having other pairs of glasses done, etc.

Then, you can consider barter items: ladies supplies, salt, fuels, anything to keep warm (thermal socks and clothing), duct tape, fishing line, playing cards, candle wax & wicking, sewing supplies, skills and services, etc. My great-grandmother, who survived both World wars and talked a lot about these events with me, was often talking tobacco and alcohol to barter. It might also seem bizarre but in the midst of difficult events, sometimes people also want to buy 'non-essential' items as well because it helps them have some sense of 'normalcy'. So novels, fancy soaps, creams and make up but also objects that you might already have at home, might be bartered at some point.

FWIW.
 
Food/water, food production and water filtration/processing, even better. Fuels that can be stored long term: propane, butane, alcohol, kerosene, lighter fluid/Coleman fuel. Items that have multiple uses and can be bartered i.e. salt, baking soda, vinegar, alcohol (again, not for drinking but someone else may "need" it for that, pure that can be drunk or used for fuel like Everclear is good), toilet paper, candles, matches (strike anywhere), lighters, bleach (among other things for disinfecting water, I also read that calcium hypochlorite used for chlorinating pools can be used for disinfecting drinking water and has a much longer shelf life than bleach. Best to also filter/boil). First aid/medical supplies.

Self-defense may be a dicey subject but having a baseball bat or something you feel you can wield effectively may not be a bad idea. Of course knives would be multi-use and highly barterable (also multi-tools, i.e. Swiss Army knives, Leatherman, etc.)

Precious metals as others have said are for a more stable time, which could occur before, after or periods during whatever is to come. Not a good basket to have all your eggs in but if you have assets left over after accumulating some portion of the above then having a small stash is probably not a bad idea. Smaller units, i.e. 90% silver U.S. dimes, quarters, half dollars pre-1965 ("junk silver") are a good place to start. Some .999 purity bullion also a good idea. Yes, absolutely physical you can hold in your hand only, ETFs are for suckers and will be re-hypothecated away ("storing it with the fox").

Above all, CASH OUT of any equities or retirement accounts and such that you can if you have not already. Unless you have some reason to think the organization involved will have some way of making good on it during a prolonged disaster which I have trouble imagining. I wish there were some way of convincing others to do this without also convincing them you are crazy, before things take a dive and it's obviously too late. Too many people are still deluded into thinking they are going to be able to retire in some kind of baby-boomer luxury. Even if there was no "wave" there are still signs everywhere that this is obviously not going to happen!

EDIT: others said batteries, I was going to add rechargeable batteries and a small solar panel capable of recharging them efficiently. Also good to have a stack of disposable alkalines/lithiums but they'll eventually run out. Even better to have 12v lead acid to charge with the solar panel then recharge your smaller NiMH batteries off of that with a 12v charger.
 
Electrical generators and fuel for it. Tools. Sleeping bags, blankets and tents. Cigarets, even if you don't smoke are great for the trade, at least was in any war. If you have capacities for bigger reserve of gas and oil, that too. Even books on what you can eat in the forest/nature, what herb is used for what, and similar.
 
axj said:
Cubbie said:
Will silver and gold get their worth? Just wondering. In worst case scenario I'm not sure if people would want to collect or hoard stuff that doesn't prolong survival... The barter system might flourish. I'm thinking rice and canned food. Toiletries too.

For the barter phase, if or when it comes, it is best to have actual goods. Precious metals are really for the time after when a new currency arrives. When banks close down and credit cards and ATM's stop working, for that initial time cash on hand is a good idea.

I agree.

If you have the excess funds/savings, it might be good to get the components of a modest solar system so that you can power various circuits in the home. the major components are:

-- 12V deep cycle batteries
-- solar panel (~220 watts)
-- charge controller
-- inverter (1-2KW)

Good components in a base system will run about $500.

If you have access to land and you want to be ready to put some animals on it, then investing in some electric fence gear (and batteries) might be good.

5 gal buckets of stored organic grains might serve 2 purposes:
1) trade with those folks that can't shake the belief in the USDA food pyramid
2) sprouting these grains for a very nutritious supplemental animal feed - cost of the equipment for sprouting cleanly is trivial

If you have significant excess savings, then now is the time to convert some of this to PMs. A good working ratio might be 5X silver to 1X gold by weight.
 
Avala said:
Electrical generators and fuel for it.
This is one I've been struggling with as it is a higher ticket item and also something you have to deal with actively (keeping fuel fresh, oil, maintenance etc.) Obviously if you want to be able to use up your freezer full of "fresh" meat before it goes bad you'll want something like this if the grid goes down. But if you're in any kind of a neighborhood, everyone around you is going to hear that thing from blocks away and at least know you have it, if not also be interested in what else you have.

In the mainstream 3D-based "prepper" community this is a glaring hole in your OpSec (operational security) that you might account for by either having tons of guns or having the generator at your bug-out location in the middle of nowhere. From our perspective, you are going to want to get to know the neighbors sooner or later, network with them and perhaps have a conversation about what is "really" going on now that they have all the reason in the world to listen. Already having a local network in place so you don't get overwhelmed would probably go a long way.
 
Minas Tirith said:
What do you think are the best things to buy under such circumstances? What if you have savings?

Good question! Maybe you could buy things that will be useful and pleasant for you in the future, and now. For example, what about an 'offline office' consisting of oil lamps (+ fuel), paper and a manual typewriter? Just throwing something out there ;)

Added: Oh, and for the non-prepper route: Buy some good 'how-to' DVDs, or watch YouTube videos to learn all kinds of manual skills, buy some equipment, experiment with it, etc. E.g. do, what you always wanted to do!
 
Data said:
Minas Tirith said:
What do you think are the best things to buy under such circumstances? What if you have savings?

Good question! Maybe you could buy things that will be useful and pleasant for you in the future, and now. For example, what about an 'offline office' consisting of oil lamps (+ fuel), paper and a manual typewriter? Just throwing something out there ;)

Added: Oh, and for the non-prepper route: Buy some good 'how-to' DVDs, or watch YouTube videos to learn all kinds of manual skills, buy some equipment, experiment with it, etc. E.g. do, what you always wanted to do!

Or just buy the books from Forum's recommended books list :)
 
There's alot of good suggestions here and all are very valid for consideration, if and when our banking situation goes down.

My grandmother had a good saying, "Think simple and basic." In other words, think in every day terms. Food and meals are very important. What are your preferences, what do you use and can you stock up on some extra - like maybe can goods, etc. Daily hygiene is necessary - so consider bar soap and stocking up with extra. Dishes need to be washed - do you have an extra supply of dish detergent? Clothes have to be kept clean - do you have extra detergent if stores were closed due to not getting deliveries, no electric, etc.
Toilet paper supply is important. Extra paper plates and plastic utensils are good to have on hand for an emergency. Also, candles and book matches.

This may be off the beaten path but are basic essentials - a decent supply and extra's of underwear and socks.... and considering our climate has turned cooler - warmer clothing - sweaters, jackets, hat's and gloves. A least 2 decent pairs of walking shoes and boots.

Do you have extra towels, wash cloths and blankets to use, in case of a water shortage and/or if a family member becomes ill? Or at least 2-3 bed sheet sets for each bed? (One set to be laundered, one on the bed and another set for back-up.)

On the topic of an extra supply of tobacco, I've come across a slight problem. Our family gets together - once a year for a group yard sale. I invested my proceeds towards buying extra cans of American Spirit and added extra cans in the preceeding months until I had a dozen stored away in the bottom of my closet in a heavy cardboard box. They sat there for a year. About three months ago, finances were tight, so I dug into the box to get one of the cans, only to discover that it had spoiled. As soon as I removed the inner Al seal, the smell was awful strong - like when mowed grass drys and then gets saturated by a heavy rain storm. I spread some of it out on a glass plate, thinking maybe if I "air it out" it would be OK but after lightng up a rolled cig, the taste was strong and off and my lips burning like it was made of black pepper. I opened another can - same problem. I contacted American Spirit Corp in NM and they said they couldn't exchange product due to some Law, not able to send Tobacco through the mail. They advised, contacting distributes in my area. Out of the three, not one will exchange 10 unopened cans and 2 opened. The Shop where I purchase my American Spirit refuses to exchange even one can, for it's a mark against his business if it looks like he's selling bad product (or so he claims). I tryed two other suppliers in my area, they won't exchange them either. So I'm stuck with a dozen cans - that raises my blood pressure every time I think of the investment ..... that went sour.
 
Back
Top Bottom