Tarot Reading

Novelis

Jedi Master
Does anyone practice Tarot reading? I got this deck called the Haindl Tarot, absolutely brilliant! This deck in particular emphasises the idea of working with the power of Earth, it uses symbols like bubbles to represent perfection and has very unusual suits like rocks instead of coins and using family figures instead of kings and queens. What I like about the major arcana in this deck is each card is accompanied by runic and Hebrew symbols, thus giving many dimensions for which to interpret meanings. Finally, I've been getting into the theory of a martial art called Ba Gua Zhang, which means 8 trigrams palms, it uses the theory of the I-Ching as a basis for combative theory, so I've been learning about cycles of nature as taught by the I-Ching. Interestingly, I purchased my tarot deck a long time ago, before I knew ANYTHING about Chinese philosophies, but it turns out the various suits on my tarot deck also include corresponding trigrams as well, so when doing a tarot reading yesterday, I found a whole new chapter in my repertoire of knowledge. It really expanded my horizons and has taught me that the Tarot could be used in a much more dynamic and interesting way, I just have to be more disciplined in my approach so I can grasp what life (Higher forces?) has offered me. That always happens. I seem to always spontaneously get into different interests only to find that ALL the different avenues fit in line and complement each other, even when the actions were considered reckless and thoughtless! Has anyone been getting into these kinds of weird synchronicities? Oh yeah, speaking on synchronicities, yesterday I received a present for my birthday, opened the package and what was the time? 3:33. should have known by now...
If anyone has interesting tales about Tarot or interesting readings I'd be happy to hear it.
 
G

Guest

Guest
The Haindl Tarot has some pretty deep symbolism, and useful for meditation as well as readings. I've been doing readings for about 25 years. It's usually "easier" to read for others because personal bias colours the reading often when you do it for yourself. I would do the same reading twice, and I could detect a deep set of thought-patterns that would be projected onto the reading, especially if it is superficially done, i.e., without a real need to have an answer.

As for reading for others, yes in the past I have been guilty of trying to impress women with the Tarot and in most cases I was sincere enough to actually be helpful. However, I would tread carefully when reading for others. In fact, I would avoid it until you gain quite a bit of experience and then there needs to be a real need. On the other hand, if you know the person, and the reading will not dig too deep, I found that gaining experience through practice is not wrong if you make it clear that the reading is just an exercise and not a prediction.

In college I got myself into some trouble with fundamentalists and was branded a Satanist not because I predicted anything, but because more than once the Death card came out and a few days to a few weeks later someone the querent knew died. This was despite the fact that I tried in vain to express that this card does not imply literal death.

Sometimes there is a lot of negativity around the querent, and if the cards reveal it it is like presenting a dark reflection back to that person. The querent can then start acting it out. I found many people have some sensitive reactions to the cards no matter what their official belief systems. The Haindl deck has the advantage of multiple approach symbolism, and can go deeper than the average deck because of this. Get to know those symbols as a synthesis of the different traditional approaches.

The cards eventually respond to YOUR interpretation (like dreams) and not to a preditermined set of truths. Lately I decided to use a regular playing card deck of 40 cards, with all the face cards removed. The symbolism amounts to the four elements with a 1-10 numerological sequence for each element. In my case, I got into the Tarot because someone gave a deck to me as a gift when I was still in high school, and I took to it like a duck takes to water.

It does sharpen the intuitive and psychic sense, and there can come a time when you can ask questions and get answers without the cards. They do, however, provide a lot of detail when you are familiar with them. Anyway, if you have any particular questions about the cards, don't hesitate to ask.
 

Johnno

The Living Force
I too have had a tarot deck for around 17 years, I've done less than ten readings with it and use it more for a meditation thing and to see where my mind is at. It's usually a good indication of the general state more than anything else, however on occasions I've done readings for others. The reading that stands out, was for my brother in law who was facing a relationship breakup, business failure and some health problems. The spread was BLACK, I think every card that had some element of black was in there.

I often get cards "jumping out" during a shuffle and take particular notes of these.

I've a traditional Rider-Waite deck and Waites guide for reference. I remember in my 20's buying Waite's book along with the cards and not even a quarter understanding what he was saying, 17 years later, I'm finding errors in his book, so I suppose that's some sort of progress.

And yes there is some sort of layover from the I-ching, perhaps the two started off the same and developed from there? There are also layovers in Alchemy, Hermeticism and the work amongst others. The Major Arcana pretty well describes stages in the "journey up the staircase" in certain regards, the Magician could be taken as Man 4 for example, the tower a fall in progress, judgement the awakening of B influences and so on. My current thoughts are Justice and The High Priestess represent the first and second deaths but I could be wrong....I'm always open to new ideas on these "cross meanings".

I still have my original old deck and it's getting a little shabby now nevertheless it still gets used and referenced from time to time.
 

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Johnno said:
I've a traditional Rider-Waite deck and Waites guide for reference. I remember in my 20's buying Waite's book along with the cards and not even a quarter understanding what he was saying, 17 years later, I'm finding errors in his book, so I suppose that's some sort of progress.
I haven't checked on this information yet, but one of my professors has researched tarot for a while now. According to him, Waite made a whole bunch of stuff up, like superstitions (proper care of deck), reversals, the Celtic Cross spread. Perhaps it was to honour an oath of secrecy, or he just needed to fill space, but my prof says these decks are more reliable: Visconti Deck, Marseilles Deck, Golden Dawn Decks. Another example of the made up stuff was changing Princesses to Pages in the minor arcana, creating a 3:1 male to female ration as opposed to 1:1.
 

Novelis

Jedi Master
Great! It's fantastic to know there is an expert on the Haindl tarot right here; somehow I knew that might be the case...
I've not been using the tarot for long, in fact, I've only been tarot reading for about 6 months, and starting out with the Haindl tarot I feel like I've bitten off more than I can chew. On the other hand, with the rich messages these cards convey, I am happy remaining befuddled until I can understand them. I've found that if I'm really looking for answers, the spread tends to give me an overview of the situation instead of definite answers, which I like because it's always left up to me what I do, the cards just indicate various possibilities if I act in certain ways.
There are a few cards that simply use rocks as backgrounds in the Haindl, which doesn't seem to mean much, I was wondering if you have some pointers as to how to interpret subtle differences, I've already been reading into obvious points like the foundations of the rock, the lighting, cracks and other various ways the rock looks like, have you got any other ways of perceiving them? For example, in the picture of the two of wands, dominion, it shows an old cathedral in ruins, yet, beside the worn away staircase there is a rock that's a perfect sphere, any ideas? There are full of subtle things I've noticed like that in these cards, I'll ask you more questions when I come across them if you don't mind.
 
G

Guest

Guest
If I am not mistaken the rocks are associated with the traditional Pentacle suite, representing the earth element. The Haindl deck is suggesting a separation between artifical structures and symbols and natural ones. It suggests that the insight of the true tarot is of a natural and organic order, polluted by artifice. To reach the real value of insight one must cleans the corrupted artifice from the natural order.

The two of wands is not of the Pentacle suite, but the rock here represents grounded manifestation, and implies its symmetric perfection. That is the Haindl deck, whether dealing specifically or indirectly with the earth element places emphasis that this is our foundation, not so much as an element but as the heart of the manifestation that bases our existence.

The worn away staircase is the false ladder leading to artificial structures of false dominion and contrived creative balance. True dominion, the real ladder is not linear, but centered. True grounding of the gate of flame is the realization of the sphere of Self with the soul essence at the center and the material world membrane around it.

Novelis said:
There are a few cards that simply use rocks as backgrounds in the Haindl, which doesn't seem to mean much, I was wondering if you have some pointers as to how to interpret subtle differences, I've already been reading into obvious points like the foundations of the rock, the lighting, cracks and other various ways the rock looks like, have you got any other ways of perceiving them?
When you see a rock in the background there is emphasis on grounding into matter, and that grounding is deeply engrained in the meaning of the card in mentioned. Lighting shows where conscious focus lies, the percentage of light on the sphere shows how conscious the material awareness foundation is. What color is the rock? Is it dark, sandy, or lighter? Is it rough or smooth? Think on the concepts of these qualities and what they mean to you.

The Haindl deck is trying to say that things like shamanism, the I-Ching, Qabbalah, myth and Alchemy have a common transcultural foundation, which does not necessarily mean they were all constructed by the same original creators. It can easily mean that their truths are based on the common core of humanity we all share, and they are expressions of the essence of human purpose and evolution. The Haindl deck is focused on basing its inspiration from that common foundation and transcending the corruptions of artifice that have invariably infected its various branchings over the ages.

Understanding every little detail is one one small phase. The real challenge is putting it all together to get the totality of meaning for every card. Good Luck. ;)
 
G

Guest

Guest
hkoeli said:
I haven't checked on this information yet, but one of my professors has researched tarot for a while now. According to him, Waite made a whole bunch of stuff up, like superstitions (proper care of deck), reversals, the Celtic Cross spread. Perhaps it was to honour an oath of secrecy, or he just needed to fill space, but my prof says these decks are more reliable: Visconti Deck, Marseilles Deck, Golden Dawn Decks. Another example of the made up stuff was changing Princesses to Pages in the minor arcana, creating a 3:1 male to female ration as opposed to 1:1.
I agree with your teacher, regarding Wait, and would extend this to Crowley and most of those affiliated in one way or another with Golden Dawn type organizations. I believe the motives were to claim the system, similar to what some food companies are doing by "copywriting" genetically modified organisms.

Changes can range from what I consider harmless, like making up a reading such as the "Celtic Cross" (I've made up some reading styles myself that work) to changes that undermine the symbolism like the alteration of the male/female ratio, which creates an imbalance in the whole inspirational underpinning of the cards.
 

Novelis

Jedi Master
Thanks for your advice, it's a shame because I don't have much time to do frequent tarot readings, but with my recent discoveries, I've realised just how much there is yet to discover!
I usually use the Celtic cross, I know some others but haven't found them to be as effective as the Celtic cross, may I ask what spread you'd recommend for me to use? What's wrong with the Celtic cross by the way?
 
G

Guest

Guest
Nothing's wrong with the Celtic Cross method (and there are several variations of it I found). It works. Like I said if you have an understanding of what spread-structure is all about you can design your own reading formats. Sometimes I tune into the querent and come up with a spread off the bat, or lay the cards so they form their own spread organization according to the situation. This can be very effective.

Here is a site worth looking into

http://www.facade.com/tarot/

It's one of those "free reading" sites, but it has an array of both decks (including the Haindl) and spreads that you can study by posing a question and choosing the spread you wish to study. If you consider your explorations in bioenergetic methods, the tarot is an excellent balance to those so all in all everything your are involved in forms a whole pattern of development, and development moves at its own natural pace. You may be surprised where all this can ultimately lead. The whole of what you are involved in is truly more than the sum of its parts.

In any case, at some point you can get a feel for spread dynamics and let the cards or your intuition or higher self reveal spread possibilites to you that are your own creation. There is a certain "flow" to which the cards can connect you. You might say, in Qi Gong terminology, that this is the flow of Shen, so it fits in with Taoist bioenergetics. Once you are "in it" the sky's the limit.
 
J

Jonathan

Guest
EsoQuest; thank you for the link! I have purchased too many decks to remember, but I have a few online-friends that, while being interested... aren't ready to spend money on something they aren't really sure about. The site that you referenced will be a great one for me to introduce them to the cards.

Some decks are so beautiful for me that I bought them purely for their aesthetic value, even though I often find the glorious images mentally distracting. I use the Rider-Waite deck in my own studies. I won't even attempt to do a serious reading for someone else because I do not feel that I would be able to detach my own vibrations from "their" cards.
 
R

Realmhiker

Guest
I was big into Tarot some years ago. My first Tarot deck was given by a friend of mine. It was the Rörig Tarot; very Golden Dawn influenced but the imagery is luscious, complex and very modern. Example, the Charriot card is a high speed racing car (Indy 500 type). I also liked the way sexual polarity is balanced in it. Same ratio for male/female figures. So I learned on that one. I decided to read a lot before I actualy did readings. I took copious notes from books on Qabalah and books on Magik, and then felt ready I started experimenting. Interestinly enough, after a while I got more gifts from people. I got the Heindl deck, the Voodoo deck, and the William Blake Tarot. I am very familiar with the Crowley Deck and the Rider Waite.

I think because the Rörig was my first one, that is the one that stuck. I have been interested in acquiring other decks like the Count Visconti and even the Dali deck, mostly because of their beauty if nothing else.

I have often used the Celtic cross spread because is simple, and it gives you a lot of information quickly. I also worked on making my own spreads. I designed one based on the Tree of Life, which I think it's the best one I have ever used. The only problem with it is that it is somewhat complex, you have to know your Qabalah symbology well and it takes long to memorize, and I am not a full time card reader, so I have not made it an effort to memorize it. ;)

My personal opinion is: Tarot is a meditational tool. Sure it can be used for divination and many other things. But you have to be aware of karma, and especially of violation/respect of other people's spaces and free will. This why I hardly ever do readings for other people. Everything has a consequence. People most of the time are not interested in truth, but more about entertaiment and morbid curiosity. Be aware of friends who want you to read them the tarot every week. I think it also uses a lof of your psychic energy and it can be easily drained from you. I love my tarot, but as a tool only. It should never become the center of your spiritual search.
 
J

Jonathan

Guest
My personal opinion is: Tarot is a meditational tool. Sure it can be used for divination and many other things. But you have to be aware of karma, and especially of violation/respect of other people's spaces and free will. This why I hardly ever do readings for other people. Everything has a consequence. People most of the time are not interested in truth, but more about entertaiment and morbid curiosity. Be aware of friends who want you to read them the tarot every week. I think it also uses a lof of your psychic energy and it can be easily drained from you. I love my tarot, but as a tool only. It should never become the center of your spiritual search.
I feel that this paragraph was expressed wonderfully, Realmhiker. Particularly the point about "being aware".

Love & Light :)
 
R

Realmhiker

Guest
Jonathan said:
My personal opinion is: Tarot is a meditational tool. Sure it can be used for divination and many other things. But you have to be aware of karma, and especially of violation/respect of other people's spaces and free will. This why I hardly ever do readings for other people. Everything has a consequence. People most of the time are not interested in truth, but more about entertaiment and morbid curiosity. Be aware of friends who want you to read them the tarot every week. I think it also uses a lof of your psychic energy and it can be easily drained from you. I love my tarot, but as a tool only. It should never become the center of your spiritual search.
I feel that this paragraph was expressed wonderfully, Realmhiker. Particularly the point about "being aware".

Love & Light :)
Thank you. Just trying to help.

Another thing I found out is that it is really not necessary to infer meanings from upside down cards. This is silly, the card itself carries so much meaning, that in conjunction with other cards it will most likely address any if not all concerns of the querent. The good reader will become more and more aware of this as they get practice. At one point I tried praciticing Tarot with just regular poker cards. Of course, you don't get any of the Major Arcana powerful cards, and none of the visual messages from real tarot minor arcana cards, but as an exercise is useful to remember the meaning of your numbers in their respective suits. Most people don't realize that everything you need to meditate is really in your head already.

The tarot became for me more less like icons on my desktop. I click on them and bang the program opens. What is cool about it is that better than any computer you can actually have multiple relationships, meanings, and layers of meanings. This is why I encourage anyone wanting to learn Tarot, to study other diciplines, particularly Qabalah as it helps you connect the dots between realms of experience. The Qabalah as I studied helped connect smells, colors, numbers, moods, states of consciousness, musical notes etc... I mean you can put any cathegory to it , most likely it will find a home in the Qabalah. The Tree of Life actually contains all the paths of the Tarot, with 10 spheres, and 22 paths, and each, alters or colors the other.

Another tool that helps the memorization of cards and their meanings is to learn the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet, (Alephbet), since each letter can correspond to a Trump card (major arcana) and each letter has already asigned meanings and numerical values that can help illuminate the meaning of an obscure card result. AGAIN, there is no substitute for diciplined study. In my humble opinion, there are no shortcuts.

Learn in addition to understand the principles of duality, and opposing forces in nature, light and dark, masculine and feminine, positive and negative, and you will see very quickly how the tarot will begin to speak by itself.

The experienced reader will find that in time that even before the querent cuts the deck, you will be able to predict cards that will show in the spread. In time you will be able to tell this before you even let the person in the house. It is an extraordinary tool to heighten your awareness and your natural psychic abilities.

I once was told that I should not study, that I should let my psychic abilties do it all, and not contaminate myself with information. I can see where some of this concern can come, but then, if you study concienciously, you will begin to separate the truth from the bullshit. I have bought so many books that ended up being bullshit, and their bullshit taught me about lies and manpulations. Some of them were so blantant and obvious. Anyway, I actually kept them to remind me that they exist, LOL... kind of like Laura meeting metaphysical psycopaths, the knowledge of this is empowering, it gives you choices.

Happy search :)
 

Raintree

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Realmhiker said:
The Qabalah as I studied helped connect smells, colors, numbers, moods, states of consciousness, musical notes etc... I mean you can put any cathegory to it , most likely it will find a home in the Qabalah. The Tree of Life actually contains all the paths of the Tarot, with 10 spheres, and 22 paths, and each, alters or colors the other.
Hi Realmhiker, All,

I am curious and was pondering if you can please share a few examples of how and why you can connect smells, color, numbers, moods, states of consciousness, musical notes, etc, etc, using Qabalah's version of Tree of Life from your own current 'point' of perception? What sort of reasoning or intuitive reasoning is used to make these connections? Can you share a few simple examples for analysis?
 
R

Realmhiker

Guest
Saman said:
Realmhiker said:
The Qabalah as I studied helped connect smells, colors, numbers, moods, states of consciousness, musical notes etc... I mean you can put any cathegory to it , most likely it will find a home in the Qabalah. The Tree of Life actually contains all the paths of the Tarot, with 10 spheres, and 22 paths, and each, alters or colors the other.
Hi Realmhiker, All,

I am curious and was pondering if you can please share a few examples of how and why you can connect smells, color, numbers, moods, states of consciousness, musical notes, etc, etc, using Qabalah's version of Tree of Life from your own current 'point' of perception? What sort of reasoning or intuitive reasoning is used to make these connections? Can you share a few simple examples for analysis?

Saman
Off the top of my head you need to know is that a Qabalah tree is individual to each person. So you build this relationships according to your experience. It is an ARBITRARY system. Like anything that is done with numbers. Numbers themselves are arbitrary, especially when assigned to time as we have learned from the C's. What the Qabalah becomes for you is a system, a sort of map by which you learn, organize your own consciousness. For example: as you well know, most people hear too many voices in their heads. Many reasons for this. Voices in your head are the voices of all your problems, situations, people's opinions and judgements on you, etc... your own concerns about work, study, love relationshps, hobbies, etc. So, as you know, meditation has always been suggested by many people as a way to over come the voices in the head, and the Qabalah is for me that meditational tool.

What the Qabalah does is organize it all. You organize your Tree of life, and you begin to see how everything has it's own place. So example and just one example because, like I said before, a Tree of life is personal: The bottom sphere or Malkuth, which represents the Kingdom, referes to the Earthly materials. I give it the color Brown, like chocolate because that is how I see the ground. Then in my world it's musical note is C3, (an octave below middle C in the piano) low, but not too low. The smell is that of moist dirt, and metal, it's state of consciousness is when I am touching anything purely material and inanimate, for example, a coin, a dollar bill, a stone, a wall... This is in a very simplistic manner, but like I said, such relationships can be colored by other spheres, like said for example: Geburah, to which I assign color red. It represents Severity, I give it G, and it smells like blood and iron to me. When for some reason Geburah is in the presence of Malkuth, I know there is going to be a payment of some kind. A sort of painful retribution that comes from an attachment to something material. Malkuth is like the coins suit in the Tarot. Geburah like 5 of swords. Anyhow... In music, G is the dominant of C and it tend to resolve (return) to C, which means in a way retribution. That gives you an idea.

If you want a non threatening sort of texbook approach to the qabalah I recomend you read Will Parfit's "The New Living Qabalah: A Practical Experiencial Guide to Understanding The Tree of Life." I have read other books, some were written by students of Madam Blavatsky and that was not very good... although there is always good information if you know how to weed things out. Some of the most comprehensive work was done by Aleister Crowley in 777. Many people have question the validity of his work because of his excentricities and reputation, but many friends of mine that are more knowledable of the Golden Dawn said this was a mask to scare away people who weren't serious and to scare away the real charlatans. What Crowley did for the Qabalah was rather signficant, as she simplified the tabulations to the very essence of the practice. If you can get through all those numbers, angel name permutations, and other such work, then maybe you can have some serious fun. As with any information source, do be careful to weed out misinformation. I recommend the Parfitt book because is simple, straight forward, with not a lot of Mambo Jambo, and it encourages you to create your own relationships. A good way to start. Then if you are still doing it, you can work your way up to all other texts. I tend to have problem when relationships are forced on me. I encourage you have to make your conclusions. I never joined anb OTO group and I don't think i ever will, as many people that started this kind of work did it fr thr wrong reasons: to harness power for themselves. To me the only power we can trully harness for ourselves is knowledge; all other power is STS. As I said before, study, see what you can find. Maybe your method will be completely different than mine, and that is VERY OK.
 
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