# The 4th "dimension" of Space, part 2.

#### EricLux

##### A Disturbance in the Force
The 4th dimension space nature

Here we go again folks!

Since we didn’t get any answer, clue or hint about the true nature of the 4th space dimension since many years, we must dig it forward.

In our last post on April 14, 2019, we got to the point that the 4th “dimension” of space should be the origin of space and time. The question is how to represent a such domain? Morever, we have only concepts that fit with space and not something that has to be outside of space. The origin of space and time seems to be a domain with no space and no time or null space and null time.

Even the Einstein’s theory of relativity can’t give us any clues on this subject since in this theory the null space is obtained when we’re at the speed of light. Remember what the Cs said about this point:

When we’re at the speed of light, we’re in the 4th density (Session March 27, 1995). So, Einstein’s TOR is only correct in our 3D space! It’s why Cs said that the Einstein TOR is partially correct and, actually, only its spatial aspect is correct since there’s no time dimension.

February 10, 2018

Q: (Ark) I want to go back to 1996 about Einstein's relativity. The following came out: time is not a dimension. And then Einstein's relativity theory is only partially correct. Now, if time is not a dimension, and Einstein's relativity theory is based on the fact that time and space are dimensions for space-time, my question is then: Which part of Einstein's relativity theory is correct?

A: Space

So the 4th Einstein space dimension, as time, is not correct. In this aspect, Einstein TOR validity stops with the 4th dimension of space, with the true nature of space. We missed the point to get the true nature of space using Einstein TOR.

September 19, 1998

Q: (L) Does space have a beginning or an end?

A: To answer that for you would be like telling a four year old human child that there is no Santa Claus.

June 27, 1995

A: Well, then maybe there's no beginning. If there's no end and no beginning, then what do you have?

Q: (L) No point. (J) The here and now.

A: The here and now which is also the future and the past. Everything that was, is and will be, all at once. This is why only a very few of your third density persons have been able to understand space travel because even though traveling into space in your third density is every bit as third density as lying on your bed at night in your comfortable home, the time reference is taken away. Something that you hold very close to your bosom as if it were your mother. And, it is the biggest illusion that you have. We have repeatedly told you over and over that there is no time, and yet, of course, you have been so brainwashed into this concept that you cannot get rid of it no matter what you do, now can you? Imagine going out into space. You'd be lost when confronted with reality that everything is completely all at one? Would you not? Picture yourself floating around in space!

So when we’re in the 4th dimension, we’re in a space domain where everything is completely all at once. To get it, we have to get the point that there’s no time so no space or null space since Cs said that with no time comes no space.

We’re in a domain without distance (null space) and without time, in the now (null time) where present, past and future are ONE. In the 4th density, there is no beginning and no end. The end and beginning realities occurred with the 3dr space, 3dr density and the illusion of linear time. It’s why, to overcome the Einstein TOR, we’ve to get the true nature of space. In other words, we’ve to do only with space and no time.

A support to this idea that there is NO time in the 4th dimension (we’re in the reality, no more in the theory and illusion), comes with the fact that there is no need to speed in the 4th dimension:

Q: (L) We talked about the fact that at the constant of light there is no time, there is no matter, there is no gravity but that any unit, infinitesimally small to the downward side of the constant of light, suddenly there is gravity and suddenly there is matter. And we asked what is it that congeals this matter out of the energy of light, so to speak, and I believe that the answer we received was that it was consciousness from 7th level. From our perspective, would it be possible to achieve this constant and move through to the other side of it, or at least stay fixed with it, without dematerializing? Is the speed of light interconnected with the state of no time and no gravity?

A: No, in an absolute sense, in a third density sense.

Q: (L) Okay, if you are in fourth density, does everything move at the speed of light and is that why there is no time there and no gravity?

A: No. That is an incorrect concept...

Q: (T) There is no speed of light, light is everywhere.

A: Precisely. There is no speed of light in fourth density because there is no need for any "speed". Speed, itself, is a third density concept. You remember, all there is is lessons. That's it! There's nothing else. It is all for your perception. For our perception. For all consciousness. That's all there is.

In other words, when we’re in the 3rd density, we did with speed since we’re in the space-time illusion elaborated on space and illusion of time. In the 4th density, there’s no gravity, no time, no speed in the way that they are 3rd density concepts. There is no gravity or null gravity, for our consciousness or perception, but there’s gravity. It’s just our 3rd density concept and perception of gravity that vanishes. There’s no more need of speed since this domain has no distance, is ALL at once, ONE. We are in the here and now.

In the 4th density, all is ONE, unified…

It’s hard to get this reality since all our 3rd concepts are based on space and time. Actually, we’ve to do with a reality that appears to us with no space, no time, no 3rd gravity and no speed! All our 3rd concepts have to become variables.

May 27, 1995

Q: (T) So, for us to try and think of this in 3rd density…

A: Variable physicality is the key

Q: (L) What makes the physicality variable?

A: Awareness of link between consciousness and matter

Q: (L) What is the link between consciousness and matter?

A: Illusion

Q: (L) What is the nature of the illusion? (T) That there isn’t any connection between consciousness and matter. It is only an illusion that there is. It is part of the 3rd density…

A: No. Illusion is that there is not.

Q: (L) The illusion is that there is no link between consciousness and matter.

A: Yes

So our aim is to find a mathematical concept that fits with no space, no linear time, no speed to describe a constant domain with no distance where everything is all at once, unified by the reality that matter is consciousness and consciousness is matter. Matter and consciousness are interchangeable. Maybe time concept comes with the variability of space.

However, our space concept is based on positive distances associated with real positive numbers. The only way to grab a concept that can describe a non-space reality is to look after the Gauss complex domain, the imaginary numbers. Actually, we used them for our commodity but we didn’t know, at this time, what reality is really behind them. We didn’t know what’s a negative distance in space apart the reality that a negative space can lead us to a null space domain. We’ve to reverse our 3rd perspective to get the 4th one. A way to do it is to make the hypothesis that physical curvature of space is the 4th dimension of space. Reversing our 3rd perspective unifies everything all at once that is separated. The way to do it is to overcome the illusion that there’s no link between matter and consciousness, between matter and consciousness that perceives. To get into the 4th density, we’ve to unify matter and observer. We’ve to integrate the observer in our concepts. All the theoretical and illusional aspect of our scientific approaches come with the fact that we reject the observer to get a objective science. In doing that, we’re in the illusion of the reality. The pure consciousness is the one that lives the reality that matter and consciousness are ONE.

To describe this in a mathematical way is to use the imaginary numbers describing the curve of space. A hint is to realise that quantum mechanics used them and have a different approach of the observer interacting with the matter.

It seems confirms by the Cs since on the February 10, 2018:

Q: (Ark) Okay. Then I was asking at some point about consciousness. And the answer was that I will understand consciousness if I'm able to invert formulation of gravity. But formulation of gravity according to Einstein is based again on space-time, where time is a dimension. So how can I invert something that is wrong from the beginning since it's based on space and time?

A: Replace time with consciousness

So, the great questions to ask to the Cs are:
• What is the reality of the complex domain of mathematics?
• Is the complex domain the one to describe the 4th dimension of space?
• Is the 4th dimension, the physical space curvature and the unity of matter and consciousness?
• Is our approach of the Gauss complex domain accurate?
• Is a complex space a way to overcome Einstein TOR and grab the reality of Space?
• The 4th dimension of space visualizes inside and outside simultaneously: is the inside, the consciousness and the outside, the matter?
• Is the 4th density, the reality, astrophysicists look for before the Big Bang?
• Mathematically, how can we integrate the observer?
• A space domain is perceived all at once, instantly: is the observer the 4th dimension?
Thanks for readings my friends, don't hesitate to comment!
With Love, Éric.

#### John G

##### The Living Force
• What is the reality of the complex domain of mathematics?
• Is the complex domain the one to describe the 4th dimension of space?
Here's Ark's paper relating his conformal group math to complex domain math:

Ark mentions the math for 8-dim (4 complex) as SO(4,2)/SO(4)xSO(2)
The 4 of 4,2 is space-like and the 2 is time-like. The SO(4) is normal Lorentz group gravity and the SO(2) is extra math that shows up with complex structures.
• Is the 4th dimension, the physical space curvature and the unity of matter and consciousness?
Q: (Ark) Okay. Then I was asking at some point about consciousness. And the answer was that I will understand consciousness if I'm able to invert formulation of gravity. But formulation of gravity according to Einstein is based again on space-time, where time is a dimension. So how can I invert something that is wrong from the beginning since it's based on space and time?

A: Replace time with consciousness
Penrose's quantum consciousness model equation does relate the conscious decoherence time to the inverse of gravitational energy.
• Is our approach of the Gauss complex domain accurate?
• Is a complex space a way to overcome Einstein TOR and grab the reality of Space?
Interestingly adding the extra conformal space dimension to get a complex space relates to unimodular relativity and traces back to Einstein himself:
* Idea: A generalization of general relativity, in which the cosmological constant appears as a single additional variable (not a field), but is then seen to be a constant of the motion.
* Motivation: It provides a possible approach to the problem of time in quantum gravity, and to the cosmological constant problem.
* History: In his paper of 4 November 1915, Einstein proposed the equations Rim = −κ Tim as his new field equations (before proposing the definitive ones in his 25 November 1915 paper); These equations are invariant under unimodular transformations... unimodular conformal and projective relativity...
• The 4th dimension of space visualizes inside and outside simultaneously: is the inside, the consciousness and the outside, the matter?
Well in conventional terms, the 4th spatial dimension can allow x-ray vision of sorts since you can get around blockages in 3-dim aka the Cs seeing around corners comment. Could maybe include a similar thing for consciousness?
• Is the 4th density, the reality, astrophysicists look for before the Big Bang?
That sound more 7th density aka information theory math rather than spacetime math.
• Mathematically, how can we integrate the observer?
The self-decoherence of quantum consciousness models could help aka objective collapse aka Ark's quantum jump-like interpretations for quantum mechanics.
• A space domain is perceived all at once, instantly: is the observer the 4th dimension?
Perceiving a space-time worldline all at once sounds more 6th density than 4th; 4th is like taking shortcuts through a complex domain aka not limited by the speed of light. The Cs called it an octagonal complexigram. The 4 space-like, 2-time-like could be a hexagonal complexigram; going up to octagonal could help add in electromagnetism (or charge in general for nuclear forces too) as Ark mentions here:

I don't know. Complexigram suggests using complex numbers and complex spaces. That may relate to the formalism of quantum theory. But also to electromagnetism.

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#### Stella Marys

##### Jedi
About fourth density I found this:

Esto:

Q: How is fourth density?

A: I am Ra. There are no right words. We can only say what it is not. Beyond fourth density our ability to describe density becomes more limited. We even run out of words.

1- A bipedal body type is used that is much denser in consciousness and more full of life. It does not use its heavy chemical vehicles or body.

2- The fourth density is not one of words, unless it is chosen. One is aware of the thoughts and vibrations of other beings.

3- It is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of the third density.

4- It is a plane of effort towards wisdom or light.

5-It is a plane in which the individual differences are pronounced although they are automatically harmonized by consensus of the group.

6- There is no disharmony within oneself or within others. It is not within possible limits to provoke disharmony in any way.

7- When the disease is present it is easily healed.

It seems that our limited perception prevents us from obtaining a clearer image of what happens in higher densities...

Cs:Time is an illusion that works for you because of your altered DNA state.
Q: What other illusions?
Cs: Monotheism, the belief in a separate and all-powerful reality. The need for physical aggrandizement. Linear approach. Unidimensionality.

And this one:
Cs: And remember: Your consciousness operates on four levels, not just one!
Physical body, Consciousness, Genetic body and etheric-spiric body.
L: Are these the components of third density human manifestation?
Cs: Third and Fourth. One leads oneself, by means of physical actions, as well as psychic actions, to develop these "problems" when one is preparing to "rise" in level.

Continuing to learn makes it possible to come closer and closer to a greater understanding of the illusion, and in this way there is a greater capacity to withdraw from that illusion and come closer and closer to the "true creation". Our physical existence limits our access to understanding. But our intentions do not lie in physicality and this causes us to "tear the veil" according to each one's capacity. I hope that what I found relevant to this thread will serve as something. Greetings.

R:Soy Ra. No hay palabras adecuadas. Sólo podemos decir lo que no es. Más allá de la cuarta densidad nuestra capacidad para describir la densidad se hace más limitada. Hasta llegamos a quedarnos sin palabras.

1- Se utiliza un tipo de cuerpo bípedo que es mucho más denso en la conciencia y más lleno de vida. No utiliza sus vehículos químicos pesados o cuerpo.

2- La cuarta densidad no es una de palabras, a no ser que sea elegido. Uno es consciente de los pensamientos y las vibraciones de los otros seres.

3- Se trata de un plano de compasión y comprensión de las penas de la tercera densidad.

4- Se trata de un plano de esfuerzo hacia la sabiduría o la luz.

5-Es un plano en el que las diferencias individuales son pronunciadas aunque de forma automática son armonizadas por consenso del grupo.

6- No hay falta de armonía dentro de uno mismo o dentro de otras personas. No está dentro de los límites posibles provocar falta de armonía en ninguna forma.

Parece ser que nuestra percepción limitada nos impide obtener una imágen más clara de lo que ocurre en densidades mayores...

P: Qué otras ilusiones?

Y ésta:
Cs: Y recuerden:¡Su conciencia opera en cuatro niveles, no sólo en uno!
Cuerpo físico, Conciencia, Cuerpo genético y cuerpo espírico-etérico.
L:¿Son éstos los componentes de la manifestación humana de tercera densidad?
Cs: Tercera y Cuarta. Uno se lleva a sí mismo, por medio de acciones físicas, así como acciones psíquicas, a desarrollar estos "problemas" cuando uno se está preparando para "subir" de nivel.

Seguir aprendiendo hace que sea posible acercarse cada vez más a un mayor entendimiento de la ilusión y de esa forma se tiene más capacidad de retirarnos de dicha ilusión y acercarnos cada vez más a la "verdadera creación". Nuestra existencia física nos limita en el acceso a la comprensión. Pero nuestras intenciones no radican en la fisicalidad y ésto hace que "rasguemos el velo" según la capacidad de cada uno. Espero que sirva de algo lo que encontré relevante para este hilo. Saludos.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

#### Inquorate

##### Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Here's Ark's paper relating his conformal group math to complex domain math:

Ark mentions the math for 8-dim (4 complex) as SO(4,2)/SO(4)xSO(2)
The 4 of 4,2 is space-like and the 2 is time-like. The SO(4) is normal Lorentz group gravity and the SO(2) is extra math that shows up with complex structures.

Penrose's quantum consciousness model equation does relate the conscious decoherence time to the inverse of gravitational energy.

Interestingly adding the extra conformal space dimension to get a complex space relates to unimodular relativity and traces back to Einstein himself:

Well in conventional terms, the 4th spatial dimension can allow x-ray vision of sorts since you can get around blockages in 3-dim aka the Cs seeing around corners comment. Could maybe include a similar thing for consciousness?

That sound more 7th density aka information theory math rather than spacetime math.

The self-decoherence of quantum consciousness models could help aka objective collapse aka Ark's quantum jump-like interpretations for quantum mechanics.

Perceiving a space-time worldline all at once sounds more 6th density than 4th; 4th is like taking shortcuts through a complex domain aka not limited by the speed of light. The Cs called it an octagonal complexigram. The 4 space-like, 2-time-like could be a hexagonal complexigram; going up to octagonal could help add in electromagnetism (or charge in general for nuclear forces too) as Ark mentions here:
I don't know where else to put this. In response to this post seems like it is as good as any place.

I found an article that claims that there may be some evidence that gravity could be a consequence of quantum entanglement, which as we know is tied to consciousness, to observation, not to time.

I hope this gets to Ark, if he is not already aware.

"Vigorous effort by several top-flight physicists has produced theoretical evidence that networks of entangled quantum states weave the spacetime fabric. These quantum states are often described as “qubits” — bits of quantum information (like ordinary computer bits, but existing in a mix of 1 and 0, not simply either 1 or 0). Entangled qubits create networks with geometry in space with an extra dimension beyond the number of dimensions that the qubits live in. So the quantum physics of qubits can then be equated to the geometry of a space with an extra dimension. Best of all, the geometry created by the entangled qubits may very well obey the equations from Einstein’s general relativity that describe motion due to gravity — at least the latest research points in that direction."

#### kenlee

##### SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Well, when a laymen in quantum physics like myself sees the term "quantum entanglement" to describe an aspect of experience then I'd just rather talk about it in basic experiential/practical terms relating more to my experiences and I'd rather leave the term within the domain of quantum physics and it's associated mathematics and with qualified physicists where that term really belongs. A qualified physicist can understand it and describe it in mathematical terms with all the subtle nuances involved but I can't understand it at that level and so if there's any aspect of that term that relates to my experience then I'd rather just talk about it at my own level and not use that term "quantum entanglement" to describe my experiences (that is, if it has anything to do with it) since the term will just confuse and complicate my understanding of what is conceptually a basic experience and not using terms in quantum physics to describe it that I really don't understand since I'm not a physicist and not qualified to approach this term at a critical level when various theories may use it to explain something.

#### John G

##### The Living Force
Entangled qubits create networks with geometry in space with an extra dimension beyond the number of dimensions that the qubits live in. So the quantum physics of qubits can then be equated to the geometry of a space with an extra dimension. Best of all, the geometry created by the entangled qubits may very well obey the equations from Einstein’s general relativity that describe motion due to gravity — at least the latest research points in that direction."
A couple things they mentioned are "toy universes" and "anti-deSitter". By "toy universe", they mean they aren't yet actually doing things for the math of our actual universe and one example is that our universe is actually deSitter not anti-deSitter aka it has an accelerating expansion not a decelerating one.

I personally don't like the idea of classical vs quantum being a one dimensional difference; I personally like the Fadeev-Popov ghost idea that basically means that two copies of the classical math are used to get the quantum math aka there would be two copies of the deSitter math.

The general idea of the quantum creating the spacetime with all the unusual quantum properties, I think would be less of a creation thing and more that the preexisting quantum universe states available to go to with high probability have those particular unusual properties.