The condition of stuttering/stammering

[Third_Density_Resident]

I have just watched a video on the unexplained condition of stuttering, or stammering, as it's known in the UK. There are heaps of videos on this life-changing condition, but here's one by ABC: _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj2IsxxCSS8&feature=related. Note that Part 2 of this video goes into the "miracle" SpeechEasy device; however they don't tell you that most people who use it find that its effectiveness wears off after a few weeks or months.

I myself am someone who has stuttered moderately ever since age 5 and continue to do so, though thankfully not as badly as the poor girl in that video. It is a horrible condition that affects different stutterers differently, but as for myself, I can say without exaggeration that it affects me every single day of my life in a negative way. Things non-stutterers take for granted are monumental undertakings for people like me. That phone-call most people can so easily make is like climbing a mountain. Depression is a very real side-effect of being a stutterer, and although I've never been suicidal, I know other stutterers who have. I have had speech therapy which was only ever short-term in its efficacy, and I have found that in about 95% of all cases, speech therapy is a short-term solution with no long-lasting effects.

I have put off revealing my condition on these forums for years because I didn't think it was relevant to the Work, but I have more recently wondered if people who stutter have brains that are defective enough to prevent any meaningful Work ever being done, as absurd as this might sound.

After doing a lot of research, and there is a LOT of conflicting data out there, I have come no closer to that million-dollar question: What is the cause of stuttering? Some say it's all genetic, some say it's environmental, some say it's a combination of the two. I even wondered if there is a non-materialistic, "spiritual" explanation behind it, such as soul attachment. There must be a genetic component since 4 out of 5 stutterers are male. And there is definitely a psychological component because most stutterers, including me, can speak quite fluently on their own, and in some other situations, but not in others.

This all brings me to the real reason I have put this post on this particular board: I have always wanted to see what the Cs would say about this condition, and I always wondered whether there is any real cure, or any steps that they could suggest to reduce the severity of this condition. I'm guessing there's no real "quick fix". I hope that the Breathing Program may eventually cure this problem, since I believe that stuttering is a largely emotional issue.

Now that I have said all of that, what thoughts do people have on this? (Moderators, I apologise if you believe that this post should be in The Swamp, but since I truly believe this is a worthy question to ask the Cs, I put it here.)

 

[Masamune]

I'm sorry to hear that you have this condition. I used to work with someone with a stuttering problem and it must be very challenging.

I don't know much about the condition but I remember my teacher at massage school who became an acupuncturist said that stuttering was a heart imbalance in chinese medicine. Have you tried acupuncture or herbs for this condition? From The Heart in Chinese Medicine:

Because of the close affinity of the Heart to the tongue, the Heart controls the sense of taste. The condition of the Heart also effects speech. When the Heart is out of balance, a person may talk fast or laugh inappropriately. More serious Heart disharmonies may manifest in stuttering or aphasia.

 

[Vulcan59]

FWIW, Louise Hay's states in her book, "Heal Your Body" which Laura mentioned as a great clue system, under stuttering it states;

Insecurity. Lack of self-expression. Not being allowed to cry.

So in that regard, I suppose the breathing program which you yourself stated, is definitely going to be helpful if not a cure.

 

[Erna]

My ex-fiancé had a mild stuttering problem, and after my time with him I would have to say that it's an emotional issue, not a physical one. Of the two people I've known with this problem, him and my ex-CEOs son, both of them came from extremely strongly opinionated, even dominating and controlling families. Having to fight to be heard and being constantly interrupted from early on. Both these families were also extremely narcissistic.

In my ex-fiancé’s case, it was a very dominating and controlling oldest sister. They had a company together, and she had him right under her thumb. The reason I say it's emotional, is because he was so comfortable and relaxed with me, that he didn't stutter in my company. The moment she walks through the door, he starts stuttering. She was impatient with him and interrupted him constantly. He even changed his name in school from one that started with a consonant to one that started with a vowel to avoid embarrassment. He said in the beginning of each school year when the teacher asked him his name, after a while of difficulty, the rest of the class would shout his name out for him. He was just petrified of his sister, and eventually I was too. His other sister was loving and kind, and with her he also didn't stutter.

So he had the very controlling sister. In my ex-CEOs son's case, it was also the sister, pathological and controlling, with whom I've had enough contact to know that she's the culprit in his stuttering problem. She was the star, the achiever, the hope for the future. At least in their (the family) eyes. Everywhere else she was despised. The whole family is in fact a textbook case of... too many things to mention. The parents were also very dysfunctional...and scared of her. Her mom referred to her as "my boss". His opinion was not valued. It also manifested in the way he carried himself, always slumping. They had him hypnotised to try get to the bottom of his stuttering problem, and the sister is the main problem. She's a deviant little thing. One of the things that came out under hypnosis was when they were little children, and they walked behind their parents in a shopping mall, she used to pince him, and he would slap her in return. Then she would start crying and cause a scene, and they would give him a hiding for slapping his little sister. I accompanied them once to the states, and when I beat her in a pool game in San Francisco, she made my life a living hell for the rest of the trip. I was completely drained when I got off on Joburg International.

You will notice that if you speak much slower and calmly, you will be able to pronounce each word perfectly (without cutting it off and rushing), instead of trying to get it over and done with as quickly as possible (before you're interrupted). Even if you speak so slowly that it seems strange or even embarrassing to you. I mean you don't stutter when you sing or speak really slowly, so it's not a physical problem. Don't be impatient with yourself when it's your turn to speak, start enjoying your 'moment' calmly and patiently. My ex used to tell me that while he spoke, he knew long in advance which word would be an obstacle, and then he would find a replacement before he got there. I don't think that's the solution, because when I asked him to say that specific word on it's own, slowly, he did it easily. Again proving it's not a physical problem. By now the fear of stuttering is so engrained in you, that the anxiety before you even open your mouth doesn't help the situation.

Forgive those who have wronged you (or helped cause this situation). Really forgive. Not to wander off topic for a bit, but relating to life in general; holding grudges or hating those who have wronged you, only affects you and no-one else. Hate is a poison eating away at one doing the hating, having no effect on the supposed recipient of this hate. The best revenge is a happy life. This last bit is one of my life philosophies, something that fell on deaf ears with my ex. He just couldn't let go of the anger, to his own detriment...and mine.

None of the above might apply to your situation though, but in my experience, it's the family (often siblings and parents' inability to protect siblings from one another, to make everyone count in their own right, and indentify pathology or manipulation if necessary). Of course the problem may reside with one parent or both parents. Once those unhealthy family dynamics have taken root, I've seldom seem them addressed. It's as if once everyone has settled into their respective 'roles' early on (manipulator/manipulated, achiever/under achiever, strong/weak, victor/victim, malevolent/benevolent etc.) turning the ship (if necessary) is an impossible task - with the unfortunate resulting consequences manifesting in various ways in every individual.

Don't know if you're a smoker, but if you are and you have that anxiety before you start speaking, take a drag, pretend to ponder your reply, and calmly respond. The 'not rushing' and rambling off a sentence is the main thing, because you sense the uncomfortableness in your audience as well, adding to your anxiety. If you speak slowly and sense your audience's relaxed state, enjoyment and interest in your opinion, you will start enjoying expressing yourself again.

 

[Third_Density_Resident]

I'm sorry to hear that you have this condition. I used to work with someone with a stuttering problem and it must be very challenging.

Challenging it sure is. I was *offered* what would have been an excellent job (I was given first preference and it wasn't advertised) at the beginning of this year but turned it down because one of the main requirements was making phone calls. At the time I convinced myself that I wouldn't have done the job in any case because it held no real interest for me, but looking back now I know that to be a lie. I would have done the job had I not had my problem because of would have appreciated the work experience.

I don't know much about the condition but I remember my teacher at massage school who became an acupuncturist said that stuttering was a heart imbalance in chinese medicine. Have you tried acupuncture or herbs for this condition? From The Heart in Chinese Medicine:

Because of the close affinity of the Heart to the tongue, the Heart controls the sense of taste. The condition of the Heart also effects speech. When the Heart is out of balance, a person may talk fast or laugh inappropriately. More serious Heart disharmonies may manifest in stuttering or aphasia.

That's interesting. I have often wondered about certain organs interlinking with other functions of the body. I have had heart arrhythmia since I was born basically, though it's not serious. I tend to talk way too fast, though I can't say I laugh inappropriately. I definitely believe that there is an imbalance or "blockage" somewhere in my body. Perhaps I should see an acupuncturist or someone similar?

FWIW, Louise Hay's states in her book, "Heal Your Body" which Laura mentioned as a great clue system, under stuttering it states;

Insecurity. Lack of self-expression. Not being allowed to cry.

So in that regard, I suppose the breathing program which you yourself stated, is definitely going to be helpful if not a cure.

I am an insecure person. I was always an overly sensitive kid (which apparently 95% of stutterers were and are). I was never given the impression from my mother that I was not allowed to cry; in fact I probably cried too much (i.e. "cry baby"). However on a few occasions, when I was about 3 to 5, my father would get angry if I cried after already being disciplined. Come to think of it, those few times would have been enough to stop me from crying after future "disciplines". (I was never beaten, though I was hit with open hand. On one or two occasions my father even chased me with a stick, something I'll never forget. I have blocked out what happened when he caught me.)

My ex-fiancé had a mild stuttering problem, and after my time with him I would have to say that it's an emotional issue, not a physical one. Of the two people I've known with this problem, him and my ex-CEOs son, both of them came from extremely strongly opinionated, even dominating and controlling families. Having to fight to be heard and being constantly interrupted from early on. Both these families were also extremely narcissistic.

In my ex-fiancé’s case, it was a very dominating and controlling oldest sister. They had a company together, and she had him right under her thumb. The reason I say it's emotional, is because he was so comfortable and relaxed with me, that he didn't stutter in my company. The moment she walks through the door, he starts stuttering. She was impatient with him and interrupted him constantly. He even changed his name in school from one that started with a consonant to one that started with a vowel to avoid embarrassment. He said in the beginning of each school year when the teacher asked him his name, after a while of difficulty, the rest of the class would shout his name out for him. He was just petrified of his sister, and eventually I was too. His other sister was loving and kind, and with her he also didn't stutter.

I can relate. I stutter quite badly in front of my parents, siblings, certain aunts and uncles, certain cousins and my grandmother. The thing all these people had in common was that I saw a lot of them. People who I saw less of growing up, and strangers now, are less problematic for me, and I can hide my stutter quite well most of the time. But not so with close family. One would think it would be the reverse. I can't say my older siblings were dominating as a child, however I believe my father was and is narcissistic. He had a narcissistic upbringing himself. As for the name issue, yes I have contemplated changing my name to something else, though I have heard that in time the problem only arises again in the new name chosen.

So he had the very controlling sister. In my ex-CEOs son's case, it was also the sister, pathological and controlling, with whom I've had enough contact to know that she's the culprit in his stuttering problem. She was the star, the achiever, the hope for the future. At least in their (the family) eyes. Everywhere else she was despised. The whole family is in fact a textbook case of... too many things to mention. The parents were also very dysfunctional...and scared of her. Her mom referred to her as "my boss". His opinion was not valued. It also manifested in the way he carried himself, always slumping. They had him hypnotised to try get to the bottom of his stuttering problem, and the sister is the main problem. She's a deviant little thing. One of the things that came out under hypnosis was when they were little children, and they walked behind their parents in a shopping mall, she used to pince him, and he would slap her in return. Then she would start crying and cause a scene, and they would give him a hiding for slapping his little sister. I accompanied them once to the states, and when I beat her in a pool game in San Francisco, she made my life a living hell for the rest of the trip. I was completely drained when I got off on Joburg International.

I'm trying to fathom who my overly controlling relation was. I honestly cannot say. I had a sister, who I get on well with now, who would often "tattle tail" on me and another of my sisters (both of us are younger than her). She would often get away with stuff me and my other sister would not. It used to terrify both of us of what our father would do. Although I said earlier he never "beat" us, in the sense of using a strap, it still used to terrify us. And he even scares me to this day! And yet my father is quite easy-going and casual most of the time, it's just on those occasions when he lost it, he really lost it.

You will notice that if you speak much slower and calmly, you will be able to pronounce each word perfectly (without cutting it off and rushing), instead of trying to get it over and done with as quickly as possible (before you're interrupted). Even if you speak so slowly that it seems strange or even embarrassing to you. I mean you don't stutter when you sing or speak really slowly, so it's not a physical problem. Don't be impatient with yourself when it's your turn to speak, start enjoying your 'moment' calmly and patiently. My ex used to tell me that while he spoke, he knew long in advance which word would be an obstacle, and then he would find a replacement before he got there. I don't think that's the solution, because when I asked him to say that specific word on it's own, slowly, he did it easily. Again proving it's not a physical problem. By now the fear of stuttering is so engrained in you, that the anxiety before you even open your mouth doesn't help the situation.

While I admit that I can probably say some of my problem words if I say them extremely slowly, unfortunately the problem of stuttering goes beyond merely "speaking more slowly". That is an unfortunate myth, and it certainly doesn't apply to those letters on which I block. I sometimes block on words *before* my tongue and mouth even begin to make the necessary configuration to pronounce that letter. For example, in the past I have wanted to say my name, and I haven't even got to the stage of saying "Rrrrrrr" (assuming my name starts with the letter R). Somehow I just knew I wouldn't be able to say it. It's like a "preemptive" blocking, and it's clearly a deeply psychological/emotional problem.

Forgive those who have wronged you (or helped cause this situation). Really forgive. Not to wander off topic for a bit, but relating to life in general; holding grudges or hating those who have wronged you, only affects you and no-one else. Hate is a poison eating away at one doing the hating, having no effect on the supposed recipient of this hate. The best revenge is a happy life. This last bit is one of my life philosophies, something that fell on deaf ears with my ex. He just couldn't let go of the anger, to his own detriment...and mine.

None of the above might apply to your situation though, but in my experience, it's the family (often siblings and parents' inability to protect siblings from one another).

I agree that having a happy life is the best "revenge", though there aren't that many people I can say who really gave me a hard time, as I was an excellent covert stutterer at school and away from close family. Most of my family are completely understanding and patient with me, and I have to commend them on their patience. I know it couldn't be easy listening to someone who can sometimes take 5 times as long to say a sentence as non-stuttering people.

Don't know if you're a smoker, but if you are and you have that anxiety before you start speaking, take a drag, pretend to ponder your reply, and calmly respond. The 'not rushing' and rambling off a sentence is the main thing, because you sense the uncomfortableness in your audience as well, adding to your anxiety. If you speak slowly and sense your audience's relaxed state, enjoyment and interest in your opinion, you will start enjoying expressing yourself again.

Alas, smoking doesn't fit in with my profile. :) I have had the opportunity to speak with an overt stutterer quite recently, who was worse than me, and I was amazed at how calm I was. And then I realised that this was because I had zero fears about stuttering, because I knew that if I did, I didn't have to feel embarrassed because he of all people would understand completely. So there's a definite feedback loop happening there. If only I could pretend that every person I spoke to would be totally understanding, then my stuttering would reduce significantly. However my ability to imagine this is not great.

 

[Jacques]

I am an insecure person. I was always an overly sensitive kid (which apparently 95% of stutterers were and are). I was never given the impression from my mother that I was not allowed to cry; in fact I probably cried too much (i.e. "cry baby"). However on a few occasions, when I was about 3 to 5, my father would get angry if I cried after already being disciplined. Come to think of it, those few times would have been enough to stop me from crying after future "disciplines". (I was never beaten, though I was hit with open hand. On one or two occasions my father even chased me with a stick, something I'll never forget. I have blocked out what happened when he caught me.)

I was too an overly sensitive kid and i was stuttering when i was young. I can remember that very well. But today it is gone and i do not remember when the problem went away. And unfortunately, i do not remember how the problem was cured.

So far, there is just one person in all my adult life who told me that i had suffered from that when i was young. That person was a teacher and he was used to work with that kind of problem.

So i know it is possible to get rid of that problem.

I wish you to find a solution.

 

[Al Today]

Hey 3D Resident, I understand, feel all the negative emotions associated with stuttering. As a child I stuttered REAL bad, REAL bad. The other children were cruel to me. My mother drilled into my head to think the sentence before I spoke. I worked real hard, practicing in front of a mirror, but there was no immediate change. But over time with much practice with the mirror, thinking before talking slowly became second nature. The mirror sorta, kinda helped, I guess or I outgrew it, i dunno. To this day, under stress, I still stutter and can barely get the words out. Try the mirror exercises, but remember it took time... I hope this helps...
;) ;) ;)

edit: correct wording... spell check doesn't help when one uses wrong words.. :D :D :D

 

[Erna]

[quote author=3D Resident]

While I admit that I can probably say some of my problem words if I say them extremely slowly, unfortunately the problem of stuttering goes beyond merely "speaking more slowly". That is an unfortunate myth, and it certainly doesn't apply to those letters on which I block. I sometimes block on words *before* my tongue and mouth even begin to make the necessary configuration to pronounce that letter. For example, in the past I have wanted to say my name, and I haven't even got to the stage of saying "Rrrrrrr" (assuming my name starts with the letter R). Somehow I just knew I wouldn't be able to say it. It's like a "preemptive" blocking, and it's clearly a deeply psychological/emotional problem.

[/quote]

Sorry I didn’t mean to come across as a ‘know it all’ in this regard.

[quote author=3D Resident]

I agree that having a happy life is the best "revenge", though there aren't that many people I can say who really gave me a hard time, as I was an excellent covert stutterer at school and away from close family. Most of my family are completely understanding and patient with me, and I have to commend them on their patience. I know it couldn't be easy listening to someone who can sometimes take 5 times as long to say a sentence as non-stuttering people.

[/quote]

I’m glad to hear your family dynamics growing up weren't too unhealthy.


[quote author=3D Resident]

I stutter quite badly in front of my parents, siblings, certain aunts and uncles, certain cousins and my grandmother.

[/quote]

It’s interesting, it’s as if them ‘knowing’ makes it more a reality when you are with them, and as if you cannot divorce yourself from that perception in their eyes. I was dating my ex for weeks before he admitted to me one night that he had a stuttering problem. I said to him “could have fooled me”. He sometimes stumbled over words here and there, but lots of fast talkers do that. I considered it to be pure impatience. I never perceived it to be a problem. The moment it was ‘out in the open’ from that night onwards, it occurred more and more frequently.

When we went our seperate ways in the end, it was news to my friends as well that he had a stuttering problem, and we spent a lot of time together.

I'm sure every case is unique though in it’s cause and severity (even solution).

Good luck with finding a solution. Maybe experimenting with some physical therapy of some sort can’t hurt, as mentioned earlier. :)

 

[RedFox]

I have put off revealing my condition on these forums for years because I didn't think it was relevant to the Work, but I have more recently wondered if people who stutter have brains that are defective enough to prevent any meaningful Work ever being done, as absurd as this might sound.

fwiw its not absurd...it seems to be a common line of thinking here for most people that somehow they will not be able to do the Work because of 'who they are' (for example thinking they may be an Organic Portal).
I've thought about this a lot and read many threads on different 'worries' people have in regards to the Work/this forum....all in all they come down to self worth, unconditional love/acceptance of themselves (which for whatever reason most of us didn't get) and the 'predators mind'/negative introject injecting doubts and prodding our wounds from when we were rejected as children.

I think finding that self acceptance (by facing the wounds of rejection) go a long way to helping with those thoughts (and just being yourself), and will probably help your stammering. I seem to think that I may have had a few stammering problems as a kid...but instead of that developing I became an introvert instead and kept myself to myself (thus avoiding all conversations anyway).

A few thoughts I'd like to share in how I'd apply things I've learnt to your situation. Firstly Pavlov's dog and getting them to salivate at the sound of a bell. Your bell is talking to your parents/family...or perhaps feeling/thoughts of being 'judged'/'getting it wrong' (which I think again comes down to what I said before about rejection/needing unconditional love)...as soon as the bell rings, you stutter. As you've said you know/can feel when its going to happen too.
So you are aware that the bell has rung, but not 'what' the bell was.....this I think is just the same as observing any program....the more you practice the better you get at spotting it earlier and earlier until you finally 'hear the bell ringing'...and can choose to react or not.

My understanding is that the emotional element (and my instinct would be to say 'the fear of feeling rejection/rejected/humiliated') is the fuel to this....without this bottled emotional energy the program that runs when the 'bell rings' has no fuel.

Another element would be belief (founded on the above emotions) and self image....have you ever thought about stammering from the point of view of another 'disorder'?? Perhaps an eating disorder?? Where the person 'sees' themself as too fat or thin when they are not....the programming/bottled emotional energy is so strong that it overrides there objective reasoning.....this may be a simplification, but can you see the parallel with the false image of self overriding your ability to think or act (or speak) clearly??
Can you observe your breathing/heart rate when you stammer?? I am pretty sure that both will change dramatically between the mode of speaking with and without stammering.

A potential experiment would be to recall times when you stammered terribly (and the emotions/thoughts that went with it)..and try speaking out loud. Basically can you recall the internal 'bell' that triggers your stammering mode and make yourself stammer?? I know this may be counter intuitive (you probably want to avoid stammering at all costs)...but consciously choosing to play the bell and enter that mode gives you the opportunity to experiment and observe consciously the internal changes that are occurring....
It also leads to something very important I feel....if you can make yourself stammer just by recalling the 'bell' from memory, you can make yourself stop because it is the same internal mechanism. osit
So if you can make yourself stammer, what happens if you then do a round of pipe breathing and speak out loud again?? Or practice in that mode feeling unconditional love/acceptance/faith in yourself?? What do you feel?? What does your heart rate/breathing do?? What thoughts come up?? What emotions?? What memories??
What does the predator throw at you to keep you in that mode so it can continue to feed?? And what effect does recalling the time you where in the presence of the other stammerer or pipe breathing have on all of the above??

Be kind and gentle on yourself 3D :) Because the predator/negative introject isn't....

These are just my thoughts/understanding fwiw

*edited for spelling and clarity*

 

[Masamune]

That's interesting. I have often wondered about certain organs interlinking with other functions of the body. I have had heart arrhythmia since I was born basically, though it's not serious. I tend to talk way too fast, though I can't say I laugh inappropriately. I definitely believe that there is an imbalance or "blockage" somewhere in my body. Perhaps I should see an acupuncturist or someone similar?

From what I understand, the heart in chinese medicine does not necessarily refer to the physical organ of the heart, it is more concerned with the emotions and the mind. It houses the shen, or higher self, and is related to doing things in the proper way and having things run smoothly. I have found this site useful: The Heart

As for seeing an acupuncturist, I think that if you are able to see one then it would be a good idea to check it out. You could talk to various acupuncturists near you and see if they have treated your condition and what results they have had. I have heard many good stories about acupuncture and it has definitely helped me in the past. For example, my neck had been frozen (I could barely move it) for about 6 years. After 3 treatments on my neck I had full range of motion. It was amazing! :D So I would recommend that you check out alternative treatments because they may be helpful. :)

 

[Third_Density_Resident]

Hey 3D Resident, I understand, feel all the negative emotions associated with stuttering. As a child I stuttered REAL bad, REAL bad. The other children were cruel to me. My mother drilled into my head to think the sentence before I spoke. I worked real hard, practicing in front of a mirror, but there was no immediate change. But over time with much practice with the mirror, thinking before talking slowly became second nature. The mirror sorta, kinda helped, I guess or I outgrew it, i dunno. To this day, under stress, I still stutter and can barely get the words out. Try the mirror exercises, but remember it took time... I hope this helps...
;) ;) ;)

edit: correct wording... spell check doesn't help when one uses wrong words.. :D :D :D

Your advice about practising in front of a mirror is interesting, because one of the tips I read recently on the Web suggested that observing oneself in the mirror while you speak on the phone, for example, might allow you to see where you're stressing out, e.g. throat, stomach etc. I might give this one a go and see what happens!

I have put off revealing my condition on these forums for years because I didn't think it was relevant to the Work, but I have more recently wondered if people who stutter have brains that are defective enough to prevent any meaningful Work ever being done, as absurd as this might sound.

fwiw its not absurd...it seems to be a common line of thinking here for most people that somehow they will not be able to do the Work because of 'who they are' (for example thinking they may be an Organic Portal).
I've thought about this a lot and read many threads on different 'worries' people have in regards to the Work/this forum....all in all they come down to self worth, unconditional love/acceptance of themselves (which for whatever reason most of us didn't get) and the 'predators mind'/negative introject injecting doubts and prodding our wounds from when we were rejected as children.

I think finding that self acceptance (by facing the wounds of rejection) go a long way to helping with those thoughts (and just being yourself), and will probably help your stammering. I seem to think that I may have had a few stammering problems as a kid...but instead of that developing I became an introvert instead and kept myself to myself (thus avoiding all conversations anyway).

I definitely have an issue relating to self-worth, i.e. lack thereof. I have so little self-confidence in life, but for as long as I can remember I've been shy. I was even told I was shy at school by teachers (so this would have hardly helped matters!) I don't interact with people socially if I can help it, because I'm afraid of stuttering. I have no confidence because I stutter. And I stutter largely because I lack confidence. So as you can see there's a vicious cycle at work! I have to break that somehow, and I believe that self-acceptance might be part of it. I have to not feel ashamed about a problem that is no fault of my own, just like someone born deaf should not feel ashamed that they have difficulty hearing.

However, society appears to be far less understanding of people who stutter than they are of those who are deaf, or those who have Asperger's, or any other recognised disability you can think of. Stutterers are often the butt of people's jokes, especially in some movies and television shows. If stuttering was actually recognised as a disability, which it certainly is for me, then I think it would make the lives of stutterers a lot easier, and would make their road to recovery a lot easier as well. But because stuttering is such an unpredictable, poorly understood problem, it doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

As for becoming an introvert, yes I did that too, as you've probably gathered! Though I know that if I didn't have my problem, I'd be a lot more outgoing.

A few thoughts I'd like to share in how I'd apply things I've learnt to your situation. Firstly Pavlov's dog and getting them to salivate at the sound of a bell. Your bell is talking to your parents/family...or perhaps feeling/thoughts of being 'judged'/'getting it wrong' (which I think again comes down to what I said before about rejection/needing unconditional love)...as soon as the bell rings, you stutter. As you've said you know/can feel when its going to happen too.
So you are aware that the bell has rung, but not 'what' the bell was.....this I think is just the same as observing any program....the more you practice the better you get at spotting it earlier and earlier until you finally 'hear the bell ringing'...and can choose to react or not.

My understanding is that the emotional element (and my instinct would be to say 'the fear of feeling rejection/rejected/humiliated') is the fuel to this....without this bottled emotional energy the program that runs when the 'bell rings' has no fuel.

I have certainly heard of people who have stuttered for a large part of their life and then decided that the only way to see what was happening was to engage in close self-observation. Many of these people have nearly fully recovered because they somehow learnt to stop reacting to that "ringing bell". I have tried this to some extent but it hasn't helped much so far. I find that there is this incredibly narrow and elusive mindset that allows me to say something fluently. For example, I'm about to say a certain word, and I know there's a good chance I'll stammer. In fact the chances are about 95%. However I find that if I concentrate really hard on fluency, and putting my mind in a very tiny and specific "place", I can say the word fluently. But I only manage to find that place very rarely.

Another element would be belief (founded on the above emotions) and self image....have you ever thought about stammering from the point of view of another 'disorder'?? Perhaps an eating disorder?? Where the person 'sees' themself as too fat or thin when they are not....the programming/bottled emotional energy is so strong that it overrides their objective reasoning.....this may be a simplification, but can you see the parallel with the false image of self overriding your ability to think or act (or speak) clearly??
Can you observe your breathing/heart rate when you stammer?? I am pretty sure that both will change dramatically between the mode of speaking with and without stammering.

I actually had (and have) the problem where I see myself in the mirror as being too thin (like reverse anorexia). In addition to stuttering, this was another thing that plagued me in my younger years. I was actually stick-thin, and was treated cruelly for it at school. As I got older (early 20s) I decided I'd had enough and forced myself to eat so much that I'd gain weight. Given that I have a very fast metabolism, I had to each huge quantities of carbohydrates every day. I gained 20 kg in about 3 months. Despite being well within the normal weight after my gain, I would still see myself as stick-thin. It wasn't until I saw photos of me with other people that I realised I wasn't thin at all. So I can certainly see where you're coming from in your analogy above. I see myself as being an under-confident, anti-social person and this definitely overrides my ability to speak fluently, or it at least contributes to it.

As for heart rate and breathing -- I can definitely tell you that my heart rate goes up and my stomach tightens. There is a thing called the "Valsalva mechanism" that is triggered where your throat and abdominal muscles go into a kind of spasm when you block on certain words. Sometimes I can consciously release this spasm and talk more fluently, however in the heat of the moment, it's quite difficult to do. It takes practice and a lot of dedication, and works better in some people than in others.

A potential experiment would be to recall times when you stammered terribly (and the emotions/thoughts that went with it)..and try speaking out loud. Basically can you recall the internal 'bell' that triggers your stammering mode and make yourself stammer?? I know this may be counter intuitive (you probably want to avoid stammering at all costs)...but consciously choosing to play the bell and enter that mode gives you the opportunity to experiment and observe consciously the internal changes that are occurring....
It also leads to something very important I feel....if you can make yourself stammer just by recalling the 'bell' from memory, you can make yourself stop because it is the same internal mechanism. osit
So if you can make yourself stammer, what happens if you then do a round of pipe breathing and speak out loud again?? Or practice in that mode feeling unconditional love/acceptance/faith in yourself?? What do you feel?? What does your heart rate/breathing do?? What thoughts come up?? What emotions?? What memories??
What does the predator throw at you to keep you in that mode so it can continue to feed?? And what effect does recalling the time you where in the presence of the other stammerer or pipe breathing have on all of the above??

Interestingly, your advice about making oneself stutter is actually recommended by many therapists and recovering stutterers. I can do it sometimes, and I notice that when I do that my Valsalva mechanism is triggered, as I mentioned above. The emotional aspect of it is harder to replicate, but through remembrance of actual events, I believe that my mind goes into an absolute panic and can see no way out. Taking a deep breath and then speaking while breathing out can sometimes break this blocking, but while in the panic, it's hard to even remember to do that! So I guess more practice is required.

As for the pipe breathing -- I can't be too conclusive, but I think I was more fluent before I spoke to that severe stutterer I mentioned in a previous post. I don't know whether that was because of the pipe breathing or because I was more relaxed around him or what, but I'll need to do some more experiments with this. I believe that I also need to practice on changing the thoughts that cross my mind while I speak. In other words taking a more cognitive approach. I actually have books on this (which basically cover what you've mentioned about asking oneself how one feels and what memories one has etc.), and as impossible as this might be to believe, I've actually procrastinated reading them!!! I feel that I need to find a cognitive therapist to spur me on.

Be kind and gentle on yourself 3D :) Because the predator/negative introject isn't....

These are just my thoughts/understanding fwiw

*edited for spelling and clarity*

Thanks you very much for all of that RedFox. :) I will try to be a lot kinder on myself.

And thanks to everyone else who has posted. It has actually been therapeutic just posting here and getting feedback and thoughts. It seems that the Work really can extend to just about all aspects of life, to things I didn't think it could, and it's almost as if self-observing my stuttering could open up many other doors about myself.

 

[RedFox]

Your welcome 3D, seems we're all in the same boat its just we have things 'wrong with us' that manifest in different ways...and in fact all they are, are the results of childhood wounds, we're not permanently broken or 'wrong'....

However, society appears to be far less understanding of people who stutter than they are of those who are deaf, or those who have Asperger's, or any other recognised disability you can think of. Stutterers are often the butt of people's jokes, especially in some movies and television shows. If stuttering was actually recognised as a disability, which it certainly is for me, then I think it would make the lives of stutterers a lot easier, and would make their road to recovery a lot easier as well. But because stuttering is such an unpredictable, poorly understood problem, it doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

Perhaps so...but in a penorised society where the 'norm' is to be cruel and bitter and attacking and generally an all round narcissist, things like jokes and 'not being accepted' or ridiculed for Not being 'the norm' take on a whole different meaning.
Seeing that you do not wish to be like society at large and accepting that its ok not to be (whilst maintaining a strategic enclosure to 'fit in' enough)...its taken a while for it to sink in to my understanding but it is a wonderfully freeing thing.
So perhaps ask yourself, would you wish to be accepted by a narcissistic/penorised society?? Are they even capable of accepting anyone for who they are??

I actually had (and have) the problem where I see myself in the mirror as being too thin (like reverse anorexia).

I had that too.....I'm just naturally skinny but it really got me down.

It is societies and parents voices that tells us were wrong, broken, that its not ok to be different (and stammer), that we're Not OK. And it is that voice that gets internalised....and it is that voice that binds with our early hurts (and buried unprocessed emotions) to form the negative introject.
We then 'see' it in ourself as things like appearing ugly in the mirror, or feeling terror when we stammer. It is the constant reminder of the buried emotions we try so hard to avoid by being what others want....we give ourselves away.
When we take a step back and start to reclaim ourselves, it hurts like hell...having the spirit of a worrier to face yourself and the pain from childhood helps.

I can't find the quote (I may have even writtern it myself) but it is like a room we where afraid to go into as a child, so we lock the door....we grow up with the fear of going into this room, and the fear gets stronger the longer the door stays shut....but when we finally open the door and let the fear pass through us....we find the room is empty.

Interestingly, your advice about making oneself stutter is actually recommended by many therapists and recovering stutterers. I can do it sometimes, and I notice that when I do that my Valsalva mechanism is triggered, as I mentioned above. The emotional aspect of it is harder to replicate, but through remembrance of actual events, I believe that my mind goes into an absolute panic and can see no way out. Taking a deep breath and then speaking while breathing out can sometimes break this blocking, but while in the panic, it's hard to even remember to do that! So I guess more practice is required.

Ah, I seem to have left out part of what I was trying to relay....the idea of making yourself stammer, the experimentation should be done on your own where no one can hear you.....speaking out loud (and stammering) in only your own presence.
You are then free to try many things to counter it....practice switching states....then when you are in a social situation that you stammer in, you will be more aware/in control of the states/stammering.
This frees part of you up (and removes part of the long standing fear perhaps) to observe the less tangable elements, such as the emotional aspect.

In the end, it all comes down to untangling your beliefs from your emotions and yourself.....negative beliefs and unexpressed emotional childhood are the fuel/programs that drive these 'disorders'. Like a fire needing fuel, air and heat to continue burning, these 'disorders' require all three to continue running....take away a belief and you lesson the fire, experience the bottled emotions and you remove the fuel, stop the negative introject and you lesson the heat.
The trick it seems is to gain enough perspective to be able to do so...

One last thought then, perhaps write down what it is you see as being negative about yourself....make a list.

If this list was writtern by someone else, how would you interact with them and could you accept them?? I think the answer is yes....
Realise then that these are what society/parents installed into you (through no fault of there own), and that are now championed by your negative introject. They are the sticks that it beats you with....they are not you....they are the predators mind......and to think they are you is to believe the predators lies.

fwiw it seems that the predators mind uses the same trick in a million different internal and external disorders to control us and keep us as food....it all comes down to recognising it, and not buying the lie any more.....and by removing the fuel (trapped emotions) by which it sets its hateful fire in us.
Accept and love you stammer, and your trapped emotions and more importantly yourself...and let them be as they are with love and acceptance....and let them move on as they will with love and acceptance.....and kick out the predators mind by recognising it is not you. osit

 

[Erna]

If stuttering was actually recognised as a disability, which it certainly is for me, then I think it would make the lives of stutterers a lot easier, and would make their road to recovery a lot easier as well. But because stuttering is such an unpredictable, poorly understood problem, it doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

I think it would benefit you to not see it as a disability as well.

Maybe rid yourself of those badges that you've attached to yourself:

I definitely have an issue relating to self-worth, i.e. lack thereof.

I have so little self-confidence in life, but for as long as I can remember I've been shy.

I don't interact with people socially if I can help it…

I have no confidence…

As for becoming an introvert

I would still see myself as stick-thin

************************************************

I have to break that somehow

Indeed! And enjoy the process. Experiment with life, we are so fallible. Throw yourself in the deep end. You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Our stay here is so transitory. You have internalised and entrenched all these fears. We are our own worst enemies.

Take care!

 

[Third_Density_Resident]

RedFox, you are 100% correct when you asked why I would want to be accepted by a ponerised society. That never really occurred to me, when in fact it should have been blindingly obvious what with all the exposure it is given on the Cass forum. I will certainly look upon that in a different way now.

Ah, I seem to have left out part of what I was trying to relay....the idea of making yourself stammer, the experimentation should be done on your own where no one can hear you.....speaking out loud (and stammering) in only your own presence.
You are then free to try many things to counter it....practice switching states....then when you are in a social situation that you stammer in, you will be more aware/in control of the states/stammering.
This frees part of you up (and removes part of the long standing fear perhaps) to observe the less tangable elements, such as the emotional aspect.

No, I understood that you meant I should do it on my own. Therapists recommend this, but some even do suggest doing it on purpose in front of strangers on the phone, for example.

In the end, it all comes down to untangling your beliefs from your emotions and yourself.....negative beliefs and unexpressed emotional childhood are the fuel/programs that drive these 'disorders'. Like a fire needing fuel, air and heat to continue burning, these 'disorders' require all three to continue running....take away a belief and you lesson the fire, experience the bottled emotions and you remove the fuel, stop the negative introject and you lesson the heat.
The trick it seems is to gain enough perspective to be able to do so...

Good points there, and yes the trick certainly is to gain the necessary perspective.

One last thought then, perhaps write down what it is you see as being negative about yourself....make a list.

If this list was writtern by someone else, how would you interact with them and could you accept them?? I think the answer is yes....
Realise then that these are what society/parents installed into you (through no fault of there own), and that are now championed by your negative introject. They are the sticks that it beats you with....they are not you....they are the predators mind......and to think they are you is to believe the predators lies.

I will try that. It will be a long list, and E has already got me started on it, as you can see above (thanks E!). ;)

fwiw it seems that the predators mind uses the same trick in a million different internal and external disorders to control us and keep us as food....it all comes down to recognising it, and not buying the lie any more.....and by removing the fuel (trapped emotions) by which it sets its hateful fire in us.
Accept and love you stammer, and your trapped emotions and more importantly yourself...and let them be as they are with love and acceptance....and let them move on as they will with love and acceptance.....and kick out the predators mind by recognising it is not you. osit

It does seem that way, with regard to the Predator's Mind. I know you'll agree that accepting and loving any kind of condition/disability/disorder is difficult, but nonetheless it makes sense to do exactly that. I am already starting to do that by being far less covert and secretive about my stutter. I also don't mind if those "in the know" inform others about it, something I would have dreaded once.

I think it would benefit you to not see it as a disability as well.

I never saw my stuttering as a disability until more recently. I know that the majority of stutterers don't like to refer to their problem as being a disability, and I believe that is a pride issue. Yet realistically, stuttering is a disability in many circumstances. Do you really think that that girl in the video I posted at the beginning could get a job answering phones or as a newsreader? Do I think I could get a job answering phone-calls when half of the time I can't even say my own name, let alone the names of others?

And that said, I can still see where you are coming from. I know that there are deaf people who don't like to look upon their condition as a disability, because they feel that in defining it as such, it limits them. The language we use to describe things can have a great impact upon our lives, and I admit that. But I tried to deny that I had a disability for the better part of my life, and I found it didn't get me anywhere. So I then thought that I'll see what happens if I define my problem as a disability and see where that takes me. So far I have seen little difference either way, but in some colleges/universities it is getting more recognition as a valid disability and it actually benefits stutterers. Surely this is a good thing?

 

[Erna]

[quote author=3D]
And that said, I can still see where you are coming from.
[/quote]

Yeah, it was from the psychological point of view that I was coming from. The mind...mmmmmm...the MIND!

I know it's very easy standing on the other side of the fence saying; "try this", "try that".

We have this sprinter in SA, Oscar Pistorius, better known as 'Blade Runner'. His legs were amputated at an early age.

His story is extremely inspiring. During the last Olympic games in China they ruled that he can't compete against able bodied athletes, because he had an "unfair advantage" - the graphite or titanium his blades are made of were much lighter than human legs. It was ironic really, when able bodied athletes started complaining about the threat that he posed. ;) That guy's like a bullet out of a gun!

Just thought I'd share that.