The end of the last 200 Cathars


FOTCM Member
Here is potential link I would like to share with you. So far it is a very hypothetical, tenuous, subjective relation and it might remain this way.

Let me explain myself.

As you know, Cathars have been chased and destroyed with a rare violence. Even a crusade was settled against them. After thousands of deaths, years of suffering and torture, decades of attacks, only a few hundred Cathars were still alive. They got besieged in the last Cathar castle : Montsegur.

So the siege lasted long, and finally the Cathars lost. Here was the great deal proposed by the winners : either you negate your "religion", either you die.

Most Cathars chose the first solution. However, ~200 of them, mostly the "perfects" - the initiated ones - chose the second solution : to die.

NB : figures usually vary between 183 and 215. The "perfects" are kind of initiated monks - males and females.

Since they were so numerous, it was not possible to burn them in a classical way (tied to a pole standing on the top of a wood burden).

But incquisitors who were less stupid than pervert found a briliant technical solution: building a wood fence with a wood door and wood burdens within the fenced area. It was simple and efficient.

Before going on, for those who don't know the whole story, I will try to give you an idea of the level of blind violence animating the crusaders. Dominique de Guznan entered the city of Beziers (~60000 inhabitants) in 1209. Crusade soldiers were arresting and kiling so many people (including woman and children) that officers asked what should be done with all those people. Dominique de Guznan replied : "Kill all of them, God will know his own" . After Guznan and his troop left Beziers they had killed more than 20000 people. Dominique is more famous under the following name : Siant Dominique. Indeed,for his highly valuable work, Gusnan was canonised in 1234 (easy to remember) and he is celebrated every year on the 8th of August.

So let's go back to Montsegur. It is winter. We are in the cold morning of the 16th of March, year 1244. Snow is everywhere and clouds are low. Cathars have been chased, tortured, exterminated for 40 years. The very last survivors are here in Montsegur. The one who accepted to renounce to their faith were allowed to leave the castle alive.

The wood fence is settled in a field next to the Castle. Montsegur is now totally controlled by Crusaders. Some soldiers are waiting around the wood field holding torches. Some other troopers surround the 200 "heretics".

Long flames start to fly from the fence. And here the magic starts.

The 200 "perfect" cathars start walking together towards the fire. They hold each other hands. They seem amazingly calm. While they come closer to the wood porch, they start singing. They sereinely enter the fire field, their beautiful song hides the growing fire sounds. For endless minutes, their song lifts up from their souls and dances with the flames flying up from their bodies.

Today, this field look like another one. It is just some acres of green grass in the Pyrenees. Though for me and many others, it is a very very special place.

So where is the tenious link I was talking about in the beginning of this mail ?

If I correctly remember the Cs mentioned something like a critical mass of individuals that brought together in a specific environment and state of mind might have a non neglectable influence on events. And if my memory is not betraying me, this critical mass was roughly 200 individuals.

I had told you that it is a very tenious link ;)

But I thought it was good opportunity to tell you this beautiful and sad story.


FOTCM Member
It was actually Gurdjieff who mentioned the 200 people who are colinear. But achieving colinearity is not so easy... It requires 200 people of objective conscience...


FOTCM Member
From March 16th, 1244 to September 2nd, 2006 there are (roughly) 278490,5 days [170 days from March 16th to September 2nd, and 762 X 365,25 = 278320,5 days from 1244 to 2006].

If you divide those 278490,5 days by 41 (40 + 1) cycles you get 6792,45 days that is 18.6 years i.e. the duration for the alignment of the 4 dominant nutation cycles

Would it be possible that what really happened to the last 200 cathars who sang together during their last minutes was not a "simple" death ?


FOTCM Member
As I read the story of the Cathers, which I am not too familar with, I have had the strangest sensation of chills running up and down my body, and the hairs on the back of my neck are literally standing up. Oh my, this is intense. Thank you for sharing this information. It has really touched me in some way.


Axel_Dunor said:
Soon there will be 200 Jedi Masters in this forum ;)
Well I'm only a padawan learner but this got me thinking. If it requires 200 people of objective conscience and there are 1000 on this forum and maybe 500 on casschat and QFG not to mention 6 billion on the planet then I'm sure some must have achieved it, surely there must be at least 200 people alive now with objective conscience.

I guess the questiona are how do you know when you have achieved objective conscience? how do you know when your colinear? and when there are 200 of you then what?

I don't have the answers to these questions.


FOTCM Member
Here are two extracts of the Cs sessions dealing with the Cathars

session980620 said:
According to tradition, these men carried the 'true' treasure of the Cathars. Why
was this not smuggled out with the bulk of the treasure three months earlier? Why was this retained in the fortress until the last moment? What was the delay for? Why did this item or items need to be retained until a specific date that coincided with the Spring Equinox? It is know that some sort of festival was held on March 14, the day before the truce expired.
Apparently, this ceremony HAD to be held on March 14. From the reports, this ceremony or festival was quite
impressive because some of the hired mercenaries, defying inevitable death, converted to the Cathar faith at this time. Could whatever was smuggled out have been necessary to the ceremony on the 14th? Was it necessary for them to retain something in their possession until a certain period of time had passed?
A: If you understood the cycles, and more importantly, the forces directing them, then you would already have the answer to this.
Q: Well, that is why I am asking. So, apparently these Cathars DID have something...
A: Sometimes, your asking is merely for validation of your own hunches.
and this one

session981226 said:
Q: Is the 'buried treasure' of the Templars or Cathars, or whoever, manuscripts from the Alexandrian library telling about
the true origin and nature of man?
A: Well if so, maybe that would explain the structure you live under.
The structure we live under is the sky. Full of cycles and revolutions. One of this cycle is the 18.6 years cycle and all the forces it carries. Was it the real treasure of the Cathars and others ?


FOTCM Member
I am currently reading about the Cathers as this has always been an interest of mine, along with the Celts which I hope to look into later. The book is "The Cathers" by Malcom Lambert. It is mostly about the decline of the Cathers and deal mostly with the inquisition. It seems to be fairly informative. It seems to be a matter-of-fact kind of book. It touches on the Cather beliefs, but deals mostly with the decline of the religion.
The Cathers did not die out completely in 1244, although all of those that remained at Montseur did. And, what was interesting is the fact that On the last Sunday of the siege, 13 march, 21 believers and sympathizers who could have gone free, asked to be consoled. (The consoling is the form of initiation of adepts, which as far as I can tell is what made you a true Cathar.) On the following Thursday, 16 March, they also went into the enclosure to be burnt. It seems that the Cathers were a very resilient group for they keep on popping up in various places even with the inquisition going on. There were many nobleman who were sympathizers to the Cathers. They would hide them or supply safe passage to someplace safe. However, this, too, became rarer and rarer for the sympatizers were also hunted; and they,too, could be burnet, put in prison for life or were excommunicated. Because of this, there were fewer and fewer places to go or hide. The book states that,"Catharism vanished in Western Europe in the course of the fourteenth century, leaving not a wraith behind". The book does not say anthing about treasures of the Cathars other than the money they had. It does say how the perfects did menial labor to support themselves, they lived a simple life, were vegatarians, were celibate, etc. The Cathars believed in a dualist theory, which is that there is a good God and a bad God (which is who the Catholics worshipped). The good God created everything spiritual and the bad God-the Devil, or Lucifer if you will-created the material world and took souls and put them into mud bodies. But, the Devil could not bring them to life and asked the good God to help him, which the good God did by breathing life into them. This book also tells how as the Cathar movement spread to different countries, the teachings would differ from place to place letting their own ideas flavor their sermons.

As the movement was winding down because of the inquisitions, the perfect had to be very careful. They still travelled from one place to the next. Trying to keep Catharism alive, and helping out anyone who needed their help. The Consoling ended up only being given when one was on their deathbed, for the Cathar believers felt that that was the only way they would get into heaven. Here the book says, "The perfect saw a prime duty in the consoling of the dying: it was an overriding necessity, an integral part of their duties, which they fulfilled again and again in the teeth of rain, storm, cold and threat of betrayal. No longer was consoling a public event; it had become a secret matter, concealed in a household with only one or two supporters at hand."

And there was a lot of betrayal as you can imagine. If someone thought they could save themselves from being labeled a heretic they would gladly betray those who were. And, also, you have the people who would claim someone was a heretic that wasn't because they didn't like them or felt they had been slighted by them. You know the picture.

I can't say that this book is disinformation or not, but it does say how terrible the Cathars were treated and I have learned a lot about them. It is a dry, but interesting book.

Just my two cents.
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