The New Testament merely the Literary Remains of a 4th-Way Work?

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During my time as a Christian Universalist, I did some study of the Preterist position. Preterism refers to a belief that the prophecies of the Apocalypse and the rest of scripture have already been partially (or mostly) fulfilled, or else completely fulfilled. The seminal work on this eschatological position was published in 1878, written by James Stuart Russell, entitled The Parousia: A Critical Inquiry into the New Testament Doctrine of Our Lord's Second Coming. The word parousia is Greek for presence and refers to the second coming. This book is archived at Google books (where I found it). Though the Preterist viewpoint has been largely (not entirely) ignored, and sometimes vilified, in mainstream Christianity, there is ample biblical evidence to support it.

Essentially, the argument is that Jesus' second coming refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, that most or all of Christ's parables and warnings refer to this coming destruction to the people Jehovah had rejected; that the Harlot of the Apocalypse, the Mystery Babylon, refers primarily to Jerusalem, the city espoused, through all Old Testament scripture, to Jehovah, but which had played the harlot repeatedly in seeking other gods, etc. The position of Preterists is that the New Testament writings, including the Revelation, were written prior to A.D. 70, and that the "generation" between roughly A.D. 30 (the time of Christ's death) and A.D. 70 (the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army), a period of 40 years, is that which is constantly referred to throughout scripture. Russell's book combs through the New Testament one book at a time, examining passage after passage which indicates the expectation of Jesus and the Apostles, that all events prophesied in scripture were building to a climax which would take place during the generation in which they lived. He also examines the internal evidence (rather substantial) that the Apocalypse was written prior to A.D. 70, as well as the symbology (taking into account how prophetic language is utilized throughout the OT) by which it is interpreted as referring to the coming terrible events historically put on record by Josephus.

Though Russell examines hundreds of scriptures to establish his position, here are just a few to give an indication:

"Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7)

"The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7)

"You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." (Matt. 10:23)

"There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)

"This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34; Mk. 13:30; Lk. 21:32)

"The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Lk. 3:9)

"These are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Lk. 21:22)

"Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.' Then they will begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us,' and to the hills, 'Cover us.'" (Lk. 23:28-30; Compare Rev. 6:14-17)

"If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?" (Jn. 21:22) [Jesus speaking to Peter of John]

"What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vine-growers, and will give the vineyard to others. ...They [the chief priests, scribes and elders] understood that He spoke the parable against them." (Mk. 12:9,12)

"If you are living according to the flesh, you are about to die." (Rom. 8:13)

"This is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: 'And it shall be in the last days...'" (Acts 2:16-17)

"It is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand." (Rom. 13:11-12)

"The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet." (Rom. 16:20)

"The time has been shortened." (I Cor. 7:29)

"The form of this world is passing away." (I Cor. 7:31)

"Now these things ...were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come." (I Cor. 10:11)

"We shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed." (I Cor. 15:51-52)

"Maranatha!" [The Lord comes!] (I Cor. 16:22)

"The Lord is near." (Phil. 4:5)

"The gospel ...was proclaimed in all creation under heaven." (Col. 1:23; Compare Matt. 24:14; Rom. 10:18; 16:26; Col. 1:5-6; II Tim. 4:17; Rev. 14:6-7; cf. I Clement 5,7)

"...things which are a shadow of what is about to come." (Col. 2:16-17)

"...we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord... We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds... ...You, brethren, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief." (I Thess. 4:15,17; 5:4)

"May your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (I Thess. 5:23)

"It is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire." (II Thess. 1:6-7)

"I charge you ...that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ." (I Tim. 6:14)

"...storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for that which is about to come, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed." (I Tim. 6:19)

"I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is about to judge the living and the dead..." (II Tim. 4:1)

"Now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin." (Heb. 9:26)

"...as you see the Day drawing near." (Heb. 10:25)

"...the fury of a fire which is about to consume the adversaries." (Heb. 10:27)

"For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay." (Heb. 10:37)

"Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. ...It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!" (Jms. 5:1,3)

"Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord." (Jms. 5:7)

"You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand." (Jms. 5:8)

"...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (I Peter 1:6)

"The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer." (I Peter 4:7)

"For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God." (I Peter 4:17)

"...as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is about to be revealed." (I Peter 5:1)

"We have the prophetic word ...which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the Day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts." (II Peter 1:19)

"Their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep." (II Peter 2:3)

"It is the last hour." (I Jn. 2:18)

"Even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour." (I Jn. 2:18; Compare Matt. 24:23-34)

"This is that of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world." (I Jn. 4:3; Compare II Thess. 2:7)

"But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, that they were saying to you, 'In the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.' These are the ones who cause divisions..." (Jude 1:17-19)

"...to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place." (Rev. 1:1)

"The time is near." (Rev. 1:3)

"Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come." (Rev. 2:25)

"I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is about to come upon the whole world." (Rev. 3:10)

"I am coming quickly." (Rev. 3:11)

"...to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place." (Rev. 22:6)

"Behold, I am coming quickly." (Rev. 22:7)

"Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." (Rev. 22:10; Compare Dan. 8:26)

There is nothing clearer when reading the New Testament free from standard theological interpretations which obscure many plain statements, that the early Christians are very strongly and eagerly anticipating their personal resurrections to take place either within their own lifetimes or very soon after some of them, due to age or persecution, die. Russell also demonstrates how the intensity of expectation increases with some of the later NT writings, as the time grows ever nearer.

Now here is a thought which occurred to me. What if the New Testament is the (embellished) remains of a 4th Way Group? What if this group did successfully translate or transform to 4D STO around A.D. 70? As far as the apostles themselves, tradition records their various deaths, but only traditions developed much later, based on no contemporary documents. What if, after this 4th Way work was successfully completed, others picked up the scraps, tried to piece together what happened... and eventually these scraps were formed into the religion we now call Christianity. Some of the beginners would have been sincere, yet without critical knowledge. Also, as it is "when" you choose that counts (C's), they missed the boat, came a generation later, etc. Eventually the STS hierarchy stepped in and co-opted the whole program, according to 4D STS policy. Much false material was added to the original "gospel" and also, perhaps, to some of the other NT writings. Yet, all the references to the shortness of the time, and the quick work to be done, and the near-at-hand consummation of the ages, etc.--though all of it is ignored by the mainstream Church and has been for 2,000 years--still lies embedded and entrenched, unchanged, within all these documents.

The reason this thought occurred to me is I remember reading in the The Wave, somewhere, about discussion concerning the disappearance of some Native American groups. It's been 3 years since I read Laura's books, and I only read them once, so I need to go back and reread them. But others more familiar with her writings will know to what I am referring. If I remember correctly, the speculation was that this Native American people (or peoples), completed some kind of 4th way work, and left this Density, leaving all their magnificent architecture vacant and intact, etc. Might something similar have happened to the original Christians?

Anyway, some food for thought....
 
GregoryMurray said:
What if the New Testament is the (embellished) remains of a 4th Way Group? What if this group did successfully translate or transform to 4D STO around A.D. 70?

That is an interesting idea.

I think Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous, page 74, might be relevant:

Religions number one, number two, and number three are really the only ones we know; all known and existing religions and denominations in the world belong to one of these three categories. What the religion of man number four or the religion of man number five and so on is, we do not know, and we cannot know so long as we remain what we are.

[. . .]

If instead of religion in general we take Christianity, then again there exists a Christianity number one [. . .] Christianity number two [. . .] Christianity number three [. . .] then there is Christianity number four, of which men number one, number two, and number three have no conception whatever.

[. . .]

In actual fact Christianity number one, number two, and number three is simply external imitation. Only man number four strives to be a Christian and only man number five can actually be a Christian.

[. . .]

Man number one, number two, and number three cannot live in accordance with Christ's precepts because with them everything 'happens.' Today it is one thing and tomorrow it is quite another thing. Today they are ready to give away their last shirt and tomorrow to tear a man to pieces because he refuses to give up his shirt to them [. . .]

The idea also reminds me of the following passage in Philip K Dick's essay "If You Find This World Bad, You Should See Some of the Others" (1977), published in The Shifting Realities of Philip K. Dick: Selected Literary and Philosophical Writings (1995), available as a free PDF here:
_http://www.octobot.net/library/Dick,%20Philip%20K/Dick,%20Philip%20K%20-%20The%20Shifting%20Realities%20of%20PK%20Dick.pdf


Please ask yourself, What event signals the establishment or reestablishment of the Kingdom? Of course it is nothing other than the Second Advent, the return of the King Himself. Following my reasoning as to the existence of worlds along a lateral axis, one could reason, "Certainly the Second Coming has not taken place - at least not along this Track, in this universe." But then one could speculate, logically, "But perhaps it came exactly as stipulated in the New Testament: during the lifetime of those living then, back in the Apostolic Age." I enjoy - I find fascinating - this concept. What an idea for a novel, an alternate Earth in which the Parousia took place, say, around A.D. 70. Or, say, during the medieval period - say, at the time of the Catherist Crusades . . . how neat an idea for an alternate-world novel! The protagonist somehow is transported from this, our universe, in which the Second Coming did not take place or has not taken place - is transported to one in which it occurred centuries ago.

- pages 166-167
 
GregoryMurray said:
...What if the New Testament is the (embellished) remains of a 4th Way Group? What if this group did successfully translate or transform to 4D STO around A.D. 70?...

What if? I don't see why it would matter, just based on what you have presented here. Why is it important for you to present this idea?

I am not trying to discourage you. It's just that I read what you wrote and came away not feeling that I knew anything new. "Food for thought," for me (a former "believer" myself), would include more evidence, clues, or loose ends than I see here. As it is, it seems like some of the signs those early Christians were expecting would have been highly visible, and some would seem to have been "final." I don't think that happened.
 
Megan, thank you for your feedback.

You asked:

Why is it important for you to present this idea?

There are a few reasons. The first is that, as a Newbie, I want to overcome my inertia and be active on this Forum. I want to participate. There is a good thread on Boardlurkers, and someone made it a personal goal to make at least a post a day. Some boardlurkers pointed out their fear of posting because they felt they had nothing to say, or were afraid of creating noise. I think, in a Forum of this nature, this is a natural fear, and one I experience also. But moderators made the point that some noise is inevitable and unavoidable, especially for beginners to the Work; and thus they were encouraged to participate and learn by experience; and that it is by participation, and feedback, that they will learn over time what is noise and what is more relevant.

A second reason is that I want to develop objectivity with the goal of becoming fully conscious. My best understanding of the way to do that through networking is, to the best of your ability, express your thoughts, feelings, and ideas, and then observe the feedback, trying to learn more about yourself in the process. I certainly have a lot to work on, in terms of personal growth. I consider myself to be quite a long way from objectivity or full consciousness. The only way I know how to get a mirror is to stand in front of it. I very much value all the feedback I can get. In my present stage of development, I am observing my emotional reaction machine (and what a wonder it is to observe, with its highs and lows), as a first step towards knowing myself.

A third reason is that, as a human being sitting alone in front of a computer, in touch with no like-minded others in my personal environment, I wish to reach out and make contact with other empathetic individuals who cannot accept the psychopathological status quo. I want to connect with others who are both sane and truly compassionate. Those who are blind to the dark and cruel realities of our time, who don't seek for answers, who question neither themselves nor anything else, are missing some vital human component, OSIT. But I have a need and desire to interact with those who are not blind, and who do actually care about other human beings and would wish to alleviate the suffering if they could. So, my post is part of an ongoing effort, on my part, to make human connections with like-minded (and like-hearted) human beings, with the goal, eventually, of developing friendships, for the purpose of healing myself, healing those I befriend, and, ultimately, making a positive difference for someone, somewhere.

All of the reasons I've given so far are general ones, which don't address the reason I chose to present this particular idea. That's a good question. I chose to present it because it is one I have thought about, and so I am sharing my thought. It is a thought that occurred to me before I decided to come back to this Forum (I'd peeked in 3 years ago but didn't post or stick around), and before I decided to apply for membership in the FOTCM. It occurred to me when I was still thinking very much in terms of Christian Universalism: having previously read Laura's Wave series, and then sometime later learning about the Preterist position and examining the Bible in a new light, suddenly the possibility presented itself that we may be looking at a 4th-way work. Such an idea went against the grain of Christian teaching, even that of Christian Universalists; nevertheless, I couldn't discard the possibility. To my mind, it was something like a dot-connector that was one of the factors in enabling me to turn back for a fresh look at the perspective of this group... whether the particular hypothesis in question is true or false in itself. So... I wanted to share this idea, because to me, it has, at least, possible relevance.

You wrote:

"Food for thought," for me (a former "believer" myself), would include more evidence, clues, or loose ends than I see here. As it is, it seems like some of the signs those early Christians were expecting would have been highly visible, and some would seem to have been "final." I don't think that happened.

I agree that the sketch I presented is certainly only that: a bare sketch. It is not a developed position paper. But of course I was not, and am not, making any bold assertions pro or con. The only bold assertion I make, based on clear biblical evidence, is that its writers certainly expected the second coming, with all that entails, to take place during their lifetimes, more or less. I find it interesting how that fact is either ignored, or else explained away unsatisfactorily, by those calling themselves Bible-believers. So here is another possibility: it was a failed 4th-way Work. Maybe it just didn't happen as they expected.

As to high visibility, maybe, maybe not. If one understands exaggerated prophetic language to be symbolic and not literal (and there are a lot of Old Testament examples where this is the case, in the major and minor prophets), then the event doesn't necessarily need to be obvious to physical eyes, at any rate. As to finality, again, the prophetic language quite often uses grandiose expressions of physical calamity, earthly upheavals, and heavenly battles, etc., when referring to the overthrow of very earthly kingdoms. In other words, perhaps, for the early Christians in question, there was finality. For the rest of the world, and for the cosmos in general, in any absolute sense, there is no such thing, perhaps, as finality. But, in A.D. 70, for the dwellers in Jerusalem, and for the Jewish nation which then existed, one of the greatest and most final calamities in recorded history took place.

But, again, I agree that none of this proves my point. My "hypothesis" might be utterly off-base. It may simply not hold water. It may be wrong. A more pointed criticism you made is:

What if? I don't see why it would matter, just based on what you have presented here.

That's a good point. Maybe my post is simply not relevant to this board. It is very much my desire to avoid noise, and to further the Work, in myself and others, not detract from it. Any further suggestions, recommendations, observations, clarifications, etc., you or anyone else has that can help me to be a more fruitful participant, will be greatly appreciated.

Can I answer the charge as to my post's irrelevance? I can't argue that relevance is in the eye of the beholder. I can say that it seemed relevant to me as I wrote it, though my vision may be muddy. It seemed to me it was a topic in line with other topics in this Forum. But maybe it was irrelevant in the sense that it didn't provide.... what? That it didn't provide information helpful in terms of furthering the Work, or providing a mirror for others? What makes one post relevant, another not? This is a question I am asking myself, and also asking you. Is there a clear-cut answer? Does it depend on context? It must, in some way. I suppose I'm asking for feedback that gives me a clearer idea of the parameters of "relevancy" in this Forum, so that the quality of my decisions will improve.

Again, Megan, thank you very much for your feedback. I appreciate that you read my post, and responded, and I'm sorry you found it less than stimulating.

To Mal7:

Thank you for your response. I'm presently reading In Search of the Miraculous, and just recently came across that portion you excerpted. As I was writing my post, I didn't (consciously) make that connection between my thoughts and Gurdjieff's words. Though my "4th-way Work hypothesis" may not (or may) be correct, it is certainly more food for thought (for me) that Gurdjieff distinguished so sharply between the original Christians and all who came after. And of course, he applied the same method to practitioners of other religions.

I've never read Philip K. Dick. Your excerpt is interesting.
 
Burton Mack has written some interesting material about the New Testament and it's possible origins. The Book of Q is a good one if you haven't read it yet. Laura wrote a review of it here. Mack goes into evidence of Hellenistic influences, but if you really want to dig into the subject you should defiantly check out Laura's new book Comets and The Horns of Moses.
 
Thanks, Shane. Those books are on my reading list, and I will move them closer to the top of the stack. :)
 
I'm approaching the Christianity problem in the Secret History series. If you have read Horns of Moses, you will have a good idea of some of the foundational influences that will be coming into play in the next volume. You may be surprised at what we end up with when I get to 70 AD.
 
I've just ordered Horns of Moses, and look forward also to the followup. Having personally experienced your capacity to surprise, I anticipate that... I'll be surprised! :)
 
he reason this thought occurred to me is I remember reading in the The Wave, somewhere, about discussion concerning the disappearance of some Native American groups. It's been 3 years since I read Laura's books, and I only read them once, so I need to go back and reread them. But others more familiar with her writings will know to what I am referring. If I remember correctly, the speculation was that this Native American people (or peoples), completed some kind of 4th way work, and left this Density, leaving all their magnificent architecture vacant and intact, etc. Might something similar have happened to the original Christians?

In transcripts it is mentioned disappearance of Mayans and it is said they were taken by 4D STS. I think when you mention Native American people completing transformation it is confused with group in Britannia, that was I assume Pictish group descending from Hyporboreans using technology like Stonehenge if I am right, because I do not remember no Native American group accomplishing transformation, which does not mean there were not some group among them that did it(if you take Castendas works and mentioning of shamans).

About prophecies of quick coming of Kingdom I think it is a good thing to take notion that people who gave that prophecies like that men who was called Jesus and others could have something with their connection with higher centers and higher planes where time is different, that is centuries for us are maybe months or even weeks for them. And if you take in account that there is really no time there and no years in our sense of understanding time, it is better then to be safe then sorry and say it is soon so people can get ready on time because the prophets do not really know when it will happen. Same is with visions.

But Mouravieff also mentions in Gnosis that Jesus had the mission to spread knowledge which had to spread and prepare WHOLE adamic humanity before coming of Cycle of Holy Spirit, that is developing one I of personality. Looking it in that way 2000 years is not long for that mission when you take into account that most of humanity spent hundred of thousands years asleep, and also failed in that mission. Though, I do not agree with everything Mouravieff said because his assumptions got him eventually because of his lack of knowledge in other areas.
 
Hi Graduate,

I would just like to second the suggestion of Shane about Burton Mack's books.
I have read his The Book of Q and also A Myth of Innocence (review by Approaching Infinity here:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,4500.msg30137.html#msg30137

and Who wrote the new testament is waiting on my table. Could not recommend a better reading for a very good exploration of the times of Jesus up to the late 1st century CE. What precisely he was saying/teaching, we don't know but after reading those books you might well have an idea what he was not saying (what was made up and why) and then, before making any assumptions, you, me and everybody else just have to wait until some new discoveries are made or until some puzzle-master brings on a working hypothesis.

Laura, do you think the following volumes will be published before it is too late? Feels like there is little time left, though i don't want to be sceptical. Am really looking forward to get my hands on them.
 

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