Time modification

[aaronfransen]

Since time travel is one of the tools used by the 4D STS folks, would it be safe to say that it's a constant experiment? That is, is the outcome always predictable or is it something they monitor then adjust after the fact, or perhaps try to make very sure before they change something that it will likely be something in their favor prior to the change?

For example, if they decide that it's in their best interest that, say, someone like Nikolai Tesla, and all of his associated technology that he created, was a threat, then they have a number of tools at their disposal:

1. They could outright kill him in the past.
2. They could make sure he never gets the appropriate education (but would that have stopped him, and maybe they tried this and it didn't work?)
3. They could hire some STS friends to make sure he never succeeded, then steal his work after his death to make sure it never saw the light of day.

I'm using Tesla as an example, but perhaps it's something they just keep trying. I guess related to this, can they *undo* an action? If they go back and kill someone, decide its not the outcome they wanted, can they go back before and stop themselves? (That might be a little bit of "stuck in 3D" thinking I realize.)

And along those lines, is murder one of their tools? I can't see there being any moral impediment to it, but perhaps there are some lines they are unwilling or unable to cross?

 

[anart]

Since time travel is one of the tools used by the 4D STS folks, would it be safe to say that it's a constant experiment? That is, is the outcome always predictable or is it something they monitor then adjust after the fact, or perhaps try to make very sure before they change something that it will likely be something in their favor prior to the change?

For example, if they decide that it's in their best interest that, say, someone like Nikolai Tesla, and all of his associated technology that he created, was a threat, then they have a number of tools at their disposal:

1. They could outright kill him in the past.
2. They could make sure he never gets the appropriate education (but would that have stopped him, and maybe they tried this and it didn't work?)
3. They could hire some STS friends to make sure he never succeeded, then steal his work after his death to make sure it never saw the light of day.

I'm using Tesla as an example, but perhaps it's something they just keep trying. I guess related to this, can they *undo* an action? If they go back and kill someone, decide its not the outcome they wanted, can they go back before and stop themselves? (That might be a little bit of "stuck in 3D" thinking I realize.)

And along those lines, is murder one of their tools? I can't see there being any moral impediment to it, but perhaps there are some lines they are unwilling or unable to cross?

I would posit that any and all of that is possible, as well as things we can't even imagine.

 

[Sirius]

Lost Spirit,

We do not know, nor we can verify the portions of information concerning time manipulation. This is a highly speculative matter.

And along those lines, is murder one of their tools? I can't see there being any moral impediment to it, but perhaps there are some lines they are unwilling or unable to cross?

Control is the name of the game. The higher and 'denser' an STS being is, the lesser its ability seems to be to directly influence and control 3D density because it leaves the playground. It uses then more subtle manipulation in order to control consciousness of others, not their physical bodies since the material world is already perfectly and automatically controlled anyway. It is more probable being murdered directly by a 2D being than a 4D being (at least this was the case in ancient times), followed by 3D murder.
So I would say, that's not necessarily one of their tools. It is rather that murderers and killers are one of their tools. We can only conclude this from observation, etc. One might always ask why does the dark side simply not do this or that? This leads hardly anywhere. The larger picture must be more like an eternal rope dragging of opposite energies and polarities.

 

[anart]

So I would say, that's (murder) not necessarily one of their tools. It is rather that murderers and killers are one of their tools.

Isn't that the same thing?

 

[Carl]

The strangest thing of all, IMO, is that despite all this power they have, they still can't hold back the tide of creative force 100%. For example we're still here talking on this forum. I think that knowledge also protects in ways we can't imagine.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

1. They could outright kill him in the past.
2. They could make sure he never gets the appropriate education (but would that have stopped him, and maybe they tried this and it didn't work?)
3. They could hire some STS friends to make sure he never succeeded, then steal his work after his death to make sure it never saw the light of day.

I'd add another one: Insert a psychopath into the person's life. In Disneyland of the Gods John Keel talks about what he calls "The Hochstetter Effect". He wrote, "For every Donald Keyhoe there is a Phil Klass." Tesla had his Edison. Whenever a person approaches the truth in a dangerous subject, "Hochstetters" attach themselves to them, debunking, lying, and smearing, all in an effort to discredit them in the eyes of the public, and hopefully demoralize them to the point that they just give up. It's like a law of the universe. The general law. Agents of the Matrix.

 

[whitecoast]

Lost Spirit,

We do not know, nor we can verify the portions of information concerning time manipulation. This is a highly speculative matter.

And along those lines, is murder one of their tools? I can't see there being any moral impediment to it, but perhaps there are some lines they are unwilling or unable to cross?

Control is the name of the game. The higher and 'denser' an STS being is, the lesser its ability seems to be to directly influence and control 3D density because it leaves the playground. It uses then more subtle manipulation in order to control consciousness of others, not their physical bodies since the material world is already perfectly and automatically controlled anyway. It is more probable being murdered directly by a 2D being than a 4D being (at least this was the case in ancient times), followed by 3D murder.
So I would say, that's not necessarily one of their tools. It is rather that murderers and killers are one of their tools. We can only conclude this from observation, etc. One might always ask why does the dark side simply not do this or that? This leads hardly anywhere. The larger picture must be more like an eternal rope dragging of opposite energies and polarities.

Totally. As mind-boggling as the implications of extratemporal manipulation are, 4D STS are not omnipotent. If they were, they would not need to use psychopaths as proxies in this density. Nor would they feel compelled to pollute our bodies and environments as much as possible to damage our DNA (or at least create openings through which they can manipulate our DNA or thoughts). They're on a budget, after all.

I'm using Tesla as an example, but perhaps it's something they just keep trying. I guess related to this, can they *undo* an action? If they go back and kill someone, decide its not the outcome they wanted, can they go back before and stop themselves? (That might be a little bit of "stuck in 3D" thinking I realize.)

Why not just migrate to another timeline in which they didn't kill Tesla and work from there? ;) Again: highly speculative.

 

[Sirius]

So I would say, that's (murder) not necessarily one of their tools. It is rather that murderers and killers are one of their tools.

Isn't that the same thing?

Depends. For example, one person walks along a building site and suddenly a heavy piece of material falls from above. Or abduction cases without return. The question is then if third parties are involved or not and delegation is being used. The difference is of direct and indirect murder.

 

[Iron]

1. They could outright kill him in the past.
2. They could make sure he never gets the appropriate education (but would that have stopped him, and maybe they tried this and it didn't work?)
3. They could hire some STS friends to make sure he never succeeded, then steal his work after his death to make sure it never saw the light of day.

I'd add another one: Insert a psychopath into the person's life. In Disneyland of the Gods John Keel talks about what he calls "The Hochstetter Effect". He wrote, "For every Donald Keyhoe there is a Phil Klass." Tesla had his Edison. Whenever a person approaches the truth in a dangerous subject, "Hochstetters" attach themselves to them, debunking, lying, and smearing, all in an effort to discredit them in the eyes of the public, and hopefully demoralize them to the point that they just give up. It's like a law of the universe. The general law. Agents of the Matrix.

So, Freud was a rather active Hochstetter back then.

 

[Eboard10]

I'm using Tesla as an example, but perhaps it's something they just keep trying. I guess related to this, can they *undo* an action? If they go back and kill someone, decide its not the outcome they wanted, can they go back before and stop themselves? (That might be a little bit of "stuck in 3D" thinking I realize.)

Your reasoning above implies that the Lizzies' perception of time, i.e. not knowing the outcome and wanting to stop themselves, is the same as ours. The reason it's hard, if not impossible, for us to understand their modus operandi is due to our limited understanding of time itself.

 

[anart]

So I would say, that's (murder) not necessarily one of their tools. It is rather that murderers and killers are one of their tools.

Isn't that the same thing?

Depends. For example, one person walks along a building site and suddenly a heavy piece of material falls from above. Or abduction cases without return. The question is then if third parties are involved or not and delegation is being used. The difference is of direct and indirect murder.

It's still murder and from what you are implying, it's murder from the same source only using different means (direct and indirect).

 

[aaronfransen]

I guess what I'm really asking (funny how it takes going around the subject a few times for me to figure it out!) is this: If adjusting events in the past are a no-brainer for the 4D STS guys & gals, what's to prevent any of this information coming to light?

It seems to me that very small, very simple "tweaks" in our history would have made for a far different world. What if Castanada had never been inspired to write books? Or Laura for that matter? What if the Internet had been "nipped in the bud" by it's inventor before it ever got off the ground?

If there are no limits to what the STS folks are capable of, then there should not be any gaping holes in their control like we're (supposedly) seeing today. There's always the possibility that this is part of the control process itself, but I'm inclined to think that any field where you are encouraged to ask questions and follow the logic is preferable to the alternative.

So that says two possibilities to me:

1. Changing time is a fickle thing, and can have unintended consequences, so either they don't like doing it and do so rarely, or they're doing it so bloody much they have to keep tweaking, and gaps like this are appearing all over the place.
2. Knowledge and understanding truly *are* weapons. Once that "cloak of enlightenment" starts to grow, the food is spoiled and it becomes more difficult for them to do anything about it. They can perhaps try a few indirect methods (ie. Edison to Tesla) but are unable to affect them directly.

And that's not to say that these two possibilities are mutually exclusive; it's probably a combination of the two. I don't know. Just thinking out loud.
;)

 

[Atuya]

It seems to me that very small, very simple "tweaks" in our history would have made for a far different world.

Agreed, and probably even smaller, simpler tweaks could achieve the desired objective using less energy, which seems to be important as well to 4D STS. So yeah, you could have shut down the internet with a "small and simple tweak", or you could let it go forward and inspire someone else, using less energy, to use the internet for pornography, etc.

Not knowing what their objective is, we can at least assume that total "black out control" doesn't serve their interests, at this time. Also, it's said elsewhere that those forces get greater energy payback when they "eat" someone with a strong character. So anyone less than a fully realized, NOT EATABLE being, could be a fatter, riper, calf. Perhaps people growing stronger and more hip to certain information changes very little for those forces in the long run. Speculation...

 

[darksai]

So I would say, that's (murder) not necessarily one of their tools. It is rather that murderers and killers are one of their tools.

Isn't that the same thing?

Depends. For example, one person walks along a building site and suddenly a heavy piece of material falls from above. Or abduction cases without return. The question is then if third parties are involved or not and delegation is being used. The difference is of direct and indirect murder.

It's still murder and from what you are implying, it's murder from the same source only using different means (direct and indirect).

I agree. I think also that it's not so simple to murder people to "keep the lid on", and that a few "leaks" are necessary (from the 4D STS view) in order for them to continue feeding as they cannot "create" food; they can only "steal". Thus firstly they need people to have something to work to generate the kinds of food they need, such as the emotion from identification with ideology, invention, discovery, etc (much like we have to feed plants and animals to eat them later) and secondly a variety of those with which to cause friction between one another to further fuel identification. I think, then, that murder may not be the "weapon of choice" at all, possibly far from it, except as a means to instill fear, hatred, vengeance and so forth which, for the most part, is pacifying, although going by the protests we're seeing world-wide today, there seems to be a limit as to how much murder and other forms of terror/trauma can in fact pacify on a macro-social scale. In short, I think it's not so much the "what" (in this case murder) as the "why" that is important.

 

[electrosonic]

When all is said and done there does seem to be certain restrictions/limitations to what the STS players are able to tinker with when playing with 'time' & 'dimensions'.
The easiest option would be to go back and 'take out' everyone who brings an STO influence into the world - so logically, they must be unable to do this, maybe due to an energetic mis-match ... or lack of STS free-will agreement on behalf of the intended victim?

Good question though.