UFOs are fake, so y'all better straighten up!

Neil

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
I've had an interesting first two weeks at college to say the least. I'm majoring in Astrophysics, and thus far, almost all my time in my physics classes has been spent demonstrating the "obvious" baloney of the entire phenomenon while throwing in the occasional concept or formula to learn. The department is very interested in the new science of astrobiology and frequently compares it to ufology. On the first day, we discussed the textbook, which was written by Seth Shostak of SETI. It turns out, Seth is scheduled to come next semester and talk to our group about SETI, astrobiology, and all of these pseudosciences. Anyway, on the second day of class, we had a quiz, and on it was one question. "On a scale of 0-10, with 10 being the highest, how convinced are you that we have been visited by aliens?" I could feel myself falling into a trap here, so I decided to put a "conservative" answer of 9. So then I got wise and asked the professor what HIS answer was. His response was, "Uh, well, we'll talk about that later." After that, the the UFO theme for the day was virtually dropped. It turns out that the first chapter of our textbook is an introduction to astrobiology, SETI's contribution to it, and how aliens in popular culture have influenced and skewed the science. On day three, we discussed various aspects of the scientific method, and the Occam's Razor mode of reasoning(if two theories fit the data equally well use the simplest one) was applied to UFOs. There was a neat little video of a UFO hovering over a house on the Powerpoint presentation, and we were to suggest ideas about what the UFO was. So we came up with a hoax, distortion in the camera, distortion in the atmosphere, and remote but negligable possibility it was an alien spacecraft. The video did seem like a hoax to me. It was one of those in your face flying saucers that conveniently sat over this guy's house so he could film it. On day four, we discussed the results of the little quiz we got. It turns out about a third of the class believes in UFOs, a third didn't really know, and another third was highly doubtful or completely dismissive. 6 brave souls actually put a 10 on the quiz, which was countered by 7 who put 0. There was a large clump around 5, and a scattered few picked numbers other than this. I once again asked the professor what he thought, and he asked me what I thought he thought. Being conspiratally minded, I said, "I think there's more to this survey than meets the eye," under my breath. After a moment, he told the class, "we must not believe in pseudosciences." After that, I kind of dropped the subject and decided to sit quietly and take notes like a good little student. Yesterday, there were no discussions about UFOs.

In addition to that class, I also have a seminar class which is designed to introduce us to various subjects in condensed matter physics, astrophysics, high energy physics, quantum mechanics, and some other branches that they might choose to include. It is taught by another professor. On the first day of class, we got a speech very similar to this.

"You are here to become scientists. You could make a lot more money if you went over to the College of Business, but you wanted to be scientists. As such, you will be the future leaders of our society and scientific institutions. If our civilization is to survive, you must avoid the trap of pseudosciences. So take your favorite supernatural thing; ghosts, UFOs, telepathy; and throw it out."

Now it turns out, I really like this professor, he is very friendly and highly philosophical, but this constant mention of UFOs was starting to bother me. After being here a couple of days, my thoughts became very murky. It seemed to take me forever to do simple calculations I used to be able to do with ease. I couldn't think very far beyond the next class, let alone ponder controversial and far-reaching questions. (I don't know if EM waves have anything to do with it, there is a rather large antenna, 40 feet or so, on top of my dormitory, I'm almost directly underneath it.) I was beginning to believe I had been wrong all along. These professional, intelligent, and rather interesting people had decent rationale for what they were saying. However I noticed that they avoided confronting highly controversial things like Roswell and the many unsolved cases of Project Bluebook. They invited us to come in and talk about our various paranormal stories for the first few minutes of class, but I was wary of this, because A) there was too much noise in my head to think, and B) I don't want to be placed on anybody's watch list this early in the game. So the best option was to fein ignorance and just shut up. So I continued drifting in this twilight of consciousness for about 2 weeks. I began to feel as if I was losing touch with myself. Then on Friday, I got this weird inclination to listen to SOTT podcasts simply because I hadn't had a fast enough internet connection before. And for some reason, the sound of the voices of Scott, Henry, and Laura reignited my mind; though I'm still not where I was. It takes a considerable amount of willpower to stay alert and focused on the greater occurrences in the world. I'm working twice as hard to think half as much. Something about this environment makes me want to forget about everything and focus only on what is immediately in front of me. I was willing to just accept this minor hiccup in my Work and forget about it until today. Today's seminar homework is to read Chapter 12 of Carl Sagan's book "The Demon Haunted World" subtitlted "Science As A Candle In The Dark" where he talks about baloney detection with all of these New Age examples of spirit channeling and UFO research and then he moves on to the correlation between carcinogens in cigarrete smoke and the incidence of cancer cases. I'm not so much against the book, as wary of where its implications are trying to lead me. It seemed to warn me that I am entering a prolonged battle over who I am.

I'm not entirely sure why I'm writing this other than it clears my mind and the whole thing just feels not right somehow. I was expecting the subject of UFOs to creep into my classes on occasion, but I wasn't expecting it to be brought up front and center. Apparently, I'm not the only weirdo in the class, but considering my history following the UFO phenomenon, psionic phenomena, and then the QFG material, it almost seems as if all of this was "set up" for me, because it all hits so close to home. It's like some guy has been watching me and organizing his pawns on the chessboard; waiting to move them into my square. Is it some type of reeducation program? Now I seem to be lapsing into paranoid delusions that because I've read some Cass material I'm being "targeted"... Perhaps it is just some scientists' attempts to keep children from lapsing into naive beliefs about "Space Brothers." But my mental bias always causes me to lean toward conspiracy, and makes me think there is more to it than that... Well, thanks for listening.
 

Third_Density_Resident

Jedi Council Member
Hello Neil, it's good to have you back.

The entire time I was studying for my Science degree (in which I majored in Physics and Mathematics) I only recall a couple of mentions of UFOs from one particular lecturer. This lecturer taught the "philosophical" aspects of science -- science, technology and society, etc. I did take one astrosphysics subject in my degree, but there was not one mention of anything paranormal-related. After I completed the science degree, the aforementioned lecturer set up a new subject to do with "science and the paranormal". This subject title itself and the questions that were asked rhetorically in the subject outline (such as "Are UFOs possible?", "What is the paranormal?") were designed to feign open-mindedness such that the unwitting student would be drawn in. But being aware that this man was a member of CSICOP, which I already knew to be an incredibly disingenuous organisation, I immediately thought better of enrolling in the subject, realising that the whole purpose of it was to be a pseudoskeptical attack on all things even vaguely unusual. I daresay that the majority of students that had any openmindedness when they enrolled, would have had none upon completion -- thus fulfilling the course's real aim.

Having said that, it does seem quite peculiar that so much emphasis has been placed on UFOs etc. during your classes. Most lecturers in mainstream science are so closed-minded (and some are exceedingly arrogant) towards anything that is on the "fringe" that it wouldn't even occur to them to bring it up as a topic of discussion. I don't really know what to make of your particular situation, but the lack of concentration is a concern. The large antenna over your dormitory could well be a cause.

I myself have a copy of "The Demon-Haunted World" and when I first read it many years ago I was quite intrigued. However upon re-reading certain sections, after many years of research into the "paranormal", I find it difficult not to throw the book across the room in disgust. The hypocrisy and closed-mindedness of it all is simply too much for me to bear, I'm afraid. As for the "Occam's Razor" principle, this is one thing that has been misused terribly by pseudoskeptics everywhere. It was a purely philosophical concept invented by someone who wasn't even a scientist (I think he was a friar) and was only even meant to serve as a general guide to help form explanations for certain phenomena, and not just scientific ones. What a human being sees as being "the most simple explanation" is certainly not always going to be the same as what the universe "sees" as being the most simple.

Anyway, I'm not knowledgeable enough to make any conclusions as to your predicament, but I do hope that things improve for you soon. It would be best to keep alert as always, because as you know, the Matrix Control System is everywhere.
 

Russ

Jedi Master
Well maybe the professors are just trying to stop people from harming theirs and your credability, but I think there is probably more to it than that. I mean if you consider who is the person behind all the other people, who control what happens in the lecture halls, who are they and what is their agenda? It seems to me like a "mind closing" operation, targetted towards people like yourself. But on a lower level, probably the professors believe they are being good willed towards you, looking out for your best interests as, what they believe is, a sucessful scientist in a productive field.

One thing is, regarding being "targetted", it might not be in your interest to be concerned with yourself being targetted, but more in your interest to deal with each situation as it develops. Everyone is being targetted, in their own way, whether it be by some 4th density beings or just indirectly by nature itself, osit. I mean, what I think is important is your solidarity. You can't really rely on people to work things out for you, but in the end you have no choice but to go with what you think is best, and find out for yourself. My point is that its your life and although people can try and control you, as long as you keep an open mind and only take what people say as an experiment, how can you go wrong? You never said you were right in the first place and you have admitted your ignorance. I think its one of the most important things, especially for a scientist - even if your life is falling apart around you, if you still have your objectivity and you aren't going crazy with beliefs and agendas, you have one of the most valuable things in the world, imo. Of course if people won't listen to you, or if you really need some resources which are impossible to get, you do need to play by the rules a bit - but what is needed I think is a balance, between going with the flow, yet keeping yourself "intact", and being ready to act when you need to.

The EM tower could be the reason for your clouded mind, but it could also be any number of other things. If you have a lot of loose ends, such as, do you know exactly what you want to do in life, or, maybe you have some personal issues, or are you confronted with too many choices, things like that? I have found that if I work through things that have been bugging me in the back of my mind, it can free it up and make thoughts a lot clearer. Maybe take some time to relax and just observe what your mind is doing, allow thoughts to rise and fall and see what comes up, just do a bit of exploring. I don't know if this will work for you but I am talking from personal experience so maybe it will help you a little bit at least.
 

Gandalf

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Neil said:
Well, thanks for listening.
Hi Neil,

Very interesting. It shows again how difficult it is to try to stay awake. And how powerful is the matrix.

As you said...Well, thanks for writing.
 

Ruth

The Living Force
Neil said:
If our civilization is to survive, you must avoid the trap of pseudosciences. So take your favorite supernatural thing; ghosts, UFOs, telepathy; and throw it out."
That doesn't sound like science to me or even asking people to think for themselves ... it sounds like programing to me. :)
 

The Mechanic

Jedi Council Member
Neil said:
Now it turns out, I really like this professor, he is very friendly and highly philosophical, but this constant mention of UFOs was starting to bother me. After being here a couple of days, my thoughts became very murky. It seemed to take me forever to do simple calculations I used to be able to do with ease. I couldn't think very far beyond the next class, let alone ponder controversial and far-reaching questions. (I don't know if EM waves have anything to do with it, there is a rather large antenna, 40 feet or so, on top of my dormitory, I'm almost directly underneath it.) I was beginning to believe I had been wrong all along. These professional, intelligent, and rather interesting people had decent rationale for what they were saying. However I noticed that they avoided confronting highly controversial things like Roswell and the many unsolved cases of Project Bluebook. They invited us to come in and talk about our various paranormal stories for the first few minutes of class, but I was wary of this, because A) there was too much noise in my head to think, and B) I don't want to be placed on anybody's watch list this early in the game. So the best option was to fein ignorance and just shut up. So I continued drifting in this twilight of consciousness for about 2 weeks. I began to feel as if I was losing touch with myself. Then on Friday, I got this weird inclination to listen to SOTT podcasts simply because I hadn't had a fast enough internet connection before. And for some reason, the sound of the voices of Scott, Henry, and Laura reignited my mind; though I'm still not where I was. It takes a considerable amount of willpower to stay alert and focused on the greater occurrences in the world. I'm working twice as hard to think half as much. Something about this environment makes me want to forget about everything and focus only on what is immediately in front of me. I was willing to just accept this minor hiccup in my Work and forget about it until today.
What you wrote made me think of what Lobaczewski wrote about the new Nazi 'professor' at his university:

May the reader please imagine a very large hall in an old Gothic university building. Many of us gathered there early in our studies in order to listen to the lectures of outstanding philosophers and scientists. We were herded back there – under threat - the year before graduation in order to listen to the indoctrination lectures which recently had been introduced.

Someone nobody knew appeared behind the lectern and informed us that he would now be the professor. His speech was fluent, but there was nothing scientific about it: he failed to distinguish between scientific and ordinary concepts and treated borderline imaginings as though it were wisdom that could not be doubted. For ninety minutes each week, he flooded us with naive, presumptuous paralogistics and a pathological view of human reality. We were treated with contempt and poorly controlled hatred. Since fun-poking could entail dreadful consequences, we had to listen attentively and with the utmost gravity.

The grapevine soon discovered this person’s origins. He had come from a Cracow suburb and attended high school, although no one knew if he had graduated. Anyway, this was the first time he had crossed university portals, and as a professor, at that!

“You can’t convince anyone this way!" we whispered to each other. “It’s actually propaganda directed against themselves." But after such mind-torture, it took a long time for someone to break the silence.

We studied ourselves, since we felt something strange had taken over our minds and something valuable was leaking away irretrievably. The world of psychological reality and moral values seemed suspended as if in a chilly fog. Our human feeling and student solidarity lost their meaning, as did patriotism and our old established criteria. So we asked each other, “are you going through this too�" Each of us experienced this worry about his own personality and future in his own way. Some of us answered the questions with silence. The depth of these experiences turned out to be different for each individual.

We thus wondered how to protect ourselves from the results of this “indoctrination" .Teresa D. made the first suggestion: Let’s spend a weekend in the mountains. It worked. Pleasant company, a bit of joking, then exhaustion followed by deep sleep in a shelter, and our human personalities returned, albeit with a certain remnant. Time also proved to create a kind of psychological immunity, although not with everyone. Analyzing the psychopathic characteristics of the “professor’s" personality proved another excellent way of protecting one’s own psychological hygiene.

You can just imagine our worry, disappointment, and surprise when some colleagues we knew well suddenly began to change their world view; their thought-patterns furthermore reminded us of the “professor’s� chatter. Their feelings, which had just recently been friendly, became noticeably cooler, although not yet hostile. Benevolent or critical student arguments bounced right of them. They gave the impression of possessing some secret knowledge; we were only their former colleagues, still believing what those “professors of old� had taught us. We had to be careful of what we said to them. These former colleagues soon joined the Party.
I'm not implying any direct parallels between his story and with what you're experiencing, but I do suspect something similar is going on. Is what he's lecturing any good? Is there any truth to what he says, are there any lies, any omissions in what's being taught?

It could also help you to observe yourself and identify programs that are triggered within you during those lectures. It could be that the cause of those murky thoughts is not that antenna, but the people who now teach you. And perhaps "a weekend in the mountains" would work wonders for you too.

Just my thoughts after reading your post. I could be totally wrong.
 

Neil

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
T_D_R said:
I myself have a copy of "The Demon-Haunted World" and when I first read it many years ago I was quite intrigued. However upon re-reading certain sections, after many years of research into the "paranormal", I find it difficult not to throw the book across the room in disgust.
Yes, my professor told me that this book is a must read for anyone who wants to become a true scientist. I wonder if a "true scientist" is someone who ignores the paranormal entirely. That is where he seems to be leading; reading between the lines. He also told me that it is a necessity for American students because we are so bombarded with BS. He then breifly addressed some New Agey type philosophies, and I agreed that it was BS, but does this mean that all paranormal phenomenon is BS? This seems like some sort of counter intelligence tactic of mixing lies with truth or suggestive programming.
T_D_R said:
As for the "Occam's Razor" principle, this is one thing that has been misused terribly by pseudoskeptics everywhere. It was a purely philosophical concept invented by someone who wasn't even a scientist (I think he was a friar) and was only even meant to serve as a general guide to help form explanations for certain phenomena, and not just scientific ones.
Yeah, he was a Catholic guy who developed this approach because "life is too short" and we shouldn't overcomplicate simplistic things.
Russ said:
Well maybe the professors are just trying to stop people from harming theirs and your credability, but I think there is probably more to it than that. I mean if you consider who is the person behind all the other people, who control what happens in the lecture halls, who are they and what is their agenda?
That's a good question. The administration, the real administration, is kinda like the Executive Branch. You hear a lot of statements and get a few sound bytes, but everything beyond that is a bit of a mystery. There was a big ceremony at the beginning of the year, where the President of the university gave a speech along with some other "higher-ups." The people who are in the peak positions of power look so strange. Their faces... you can pick them out in a crowd. There was one guy who sat to the right of the President, he caught my attention and I studied him. And he stared down off the platform at me. We locked gazes for about 15 seconds. There was such power behind his fiery blue eyes and drooping face; it made me feel small. It was one of those surreal moments where you are taken out of sync with the rest of reality. And then it was over. As I said, things have been a bit odd since I got here, I should be extra cautious, all these little occurrences might be setting up for a major event.
Russ said:
but what is needed I think is a balance, between going with the flow, yet keeping yourself "intact", and being ready to act when you need to.
I agree, I must take a smile and nod approach to people; because I fear there is a clinic out there that has a bottle of Prozac with my name on it. However, I must never, never, forget who I am. I'm waiting for someone with authority to trace me to this forum. You know, when you put my name in Yahoo, my account on SOTT is in the top three matches. I'm sure my weirdness factor is way outside of acceptable societal tolerances if someone from the outside got to take a real peek into my head. That will be interesting to say the least, but I'm too stubborn to cower in fear over what "they" might do to me.
Russ said:
If you have a lot of loose ends, such as, do you know exactly what you want to do in life, or, maybe you have some personal issues, or are you confronted with too many choices, things like that?
All of the above apply to some extent. When I was 12, I wanted to build a starship that could take me "home." At that time, I determined that I needed to study science; especially physics. While the objective has changed, a lot of the momentum from that original plan remains. I am never going home and I don't even know if it exists with any certainty. So I must make Earth my home. I have concluded that the best use of my time here is to gather knowledge; apply it to physical and metaphysical problems; and perhaps achieve some degree of enlightenment. The best thing that I could hope for and the thing I want the most, is to understand why.

So I find myself straddling the gulf between materialism/physicality and idealism/spirituality. So far as I know, Ark is the only person to turn to on this one, and I will continue to delve deeper into his work as my knowledge becomes greater. As far as carreer goes, I must discard, or give the impression that I have discarded these ideas. Optimally, I would be able to research exotic propulsion techniques, but in reality, I will have to find a place somewhere where the pay is decent and they don't ask too many questions. Job security is pure illusion, I know this well.

As far as research and the acquisition of knowledge goes, millions of doors have been opened. I could go anywhere from here. But the same fundamental problems will exist. I am an outcast, conspiracy theorist, and a bit of a mystic that will always be faced with normal vs. paranormal realities and the public perceptions surrounding them. I believe my knowledge will be mostly introversive in nature, affecting my own understanding of reality rather than the condition of my environment.

Personal issues? Same old thing really. I observe the people around me that I must live with. Their lives revolve around parties, sex, pop culture, and whatever F-ing thing is bothering them at the moment. Parties are a waste of time, they are a wallowing in physicality for a payoff of a few hours of drunken stupor. Sex is a waste of time, it means nothing and is a stratified craving for physical contact. After spending 4 years training myself how to suppress my sexual desires, I have almost eliminated this thing that has enslaved humanity to lust for millenia. Why would I want to go back? Pop culture is a waste of time; it is entirely superfluous and ephermal in nature. Why do people only see an endless curve and not realize it is a circle? Why do they spend years and years going in circles? I have expressed these concerns before. I'm really just revisiting territory covered in my "What to do with normal people" thread. Still, I have more in common with a 70 year-old Buddhist monk than I do with other 18 year old American students. I feel caught in the dead zone between 3rd and 4th density. The sense of alienation is severe, but it has always been so. The last time I felt it this severely, I tried to be normal, to fit in in every way; but I now know that would be raping myself.

So yes, there has been a lot on my mind, but this weight has been on my shoulders for quite some time. Why it suddenly affected me so harshly, I do not know. Perhaps, it has do with grooving. I haven't done any significant amount of posting on this forum in about a year. I suppose in that time, my higher consciousness has been slowly devloving until some alarm bells went off, brought to my attention by these events happening in my life. I guess it is true that no man can be an island, even if they have to send 1s and 0s halfway across the world to make the appropriate connections. So Russ, your advice is useful for identifying the underlying currents that make these events significant to me.

Ruth said:
That doesn't sound like science to me or even asking people to think for themselves ... it sounds like programing to me.
Yes, the need for discernment becomes ever greater. Once again, there is a highly disciplined and developed normal world, and a silent and mysterious paranormal one.
Mechanic said:
I'm not implying any direct parallels between his story and with what you're experiencing, but I do suspect something similar is going on. Is what he's lecturing any good? Is there any truth to what he says, are there any lies, any omissions in what's being taught?
There are some important caveats to the lecture. He doesn't talk about ufology per se; he talks about avoiding being led astray by ufology. He doesn't debunk any particular cases, but has a blanket approach to the UFO phenomenon as being fakery or so inconclusive it can't be taken seriously. There were also some interesting topics he discussed which drew me in.
1. Mathematics is the language of creation. Everything can be described through mathematical relationships. Math holds an almost sacred meaning when describing nature. It is universal.
2. Learning can happen anywhere at any time. We spend our entire lives learning about the universe, not just in the classroom.
3. Science cannot prove or disprove God. That is a metaphysical concept based on your faith and it is foolish to apply science to metaphysical concepts.

Perhaps these were just hooks to bait my brain and make me more suggestible, but the guy seemed really intriguing because he was applying his reasoning to things that are more than just conservative, hard science. It is hard to draw paralells to the excerpt from Ponerology because there never were any "old" professors. My high school teachers were mostly indifferent to the paranormal except three that I can remember who firmly believed in UFOs. I don't doubt that the intention of all of this lecturing is to convince people to treat the paranormal with contempt and disbelief, and that any rogues who do not conform to the obvious logic that the paranormal is nothing more than superstition will be belittled by both their superiors and their peers. In that sense it is similar. The status quo needs to be maintained. "Oh, you still think that there is some truth to the paranormal like we did when we were freshman, you hold such childish beliefs." Yes, I can see comments like that being fostered. Anyone who does not change their ideas will be so alienated that they will just want to quit and go home. It is still too soon to see the entire agenda, but I am keeping an eye on this.
 

anart

The Living Force
Let's see if I can wake you up a bit.

Neil said:
There were also some interesting topics he discussed which drew me in.
1. Mathematics is the language of creation. Everything can be described through mathematical relationships. Math holds an almost sacred meaning when describing nature. It is universal.
Duh. It's not 'sacred' - it just is.


Neil said:
2. Learning can happen anywhere at any time. We spend our entire lives learning about the universe, not just in the classroom.
Duh.

Neil said:
3. Science cannot prove or disprove God. That is a metaphysical concept based on your faith and it is foolish to apply science to metaphysical concepts.
No - the only way 'metaphysical concepts' can ever be of any use to humanity is to apply scientific method to them.

Neil said:
Perhaps these were just hooks to bait my brain and make me more suggestible,
The Matrix has you.

That's normal - you're in a new environment that is designed to bombard all the senses and the intellect to change it and conform it. Do not underestimate its power. Also -at some point - you might want to reconsider the whole 'eliminating the sex' thing - buffers, programs and self-imposed control over one's 'natural state' tends to really 'mess things up'.

Hope that wasn't too crass and abrupt - but it sounds like it's time to really pay attention to where you are and how it 'works'. All there is is lessons, and identification can work in many ways. It sounds like you have quite the learning opportunity at hand, so make the best of it. That means working as hard on seeing it for what it is as you do on watching your own reactions and impressions and following those where they lead you - to understand yourself more fully. Pretending you 'don't fit' doesn't really make much sense - if you really didn't fit - you wouldn't be there/here.
 

herondancer

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hi Neil,

Good to see you back.

Anart said:
That's normal - you're in a new environment that is designed to bombard all the senses and the intellect to change it and conform it. Do not underestimate its power. Also -at some point - you might want to reconsider the whole 'eliminating the sex' thing - buffers, programs and self-imposed control over one's 'natural state' tends to really 'mess things up'.
Anart is spot on here. Along with this advice, you may want to remember that G.'s goal was the balanced operation of the centres.

Learning is supposed to be "fun". I understand that you are on high alert for every threat to your growth in this new environment, however the grimness I'm sensing may wear you out faster than anything the uni can throw at you. It might help to remember more of the "fun" part. Even Laura will relax with a movie now and again. (Young Frankenstein. Have you seen it? Hilarious!).

Anart said:
Pretending you 'don't fit' doesn't really make much sense - if you really didn't fit - you wouldn't be there/here.
And so it is. Locking yourself away like a monk (G's Second Way, with its attendant weaknesses) will deprive you of the varieties of learning opportunities this new environment can afford you besides the classroom. Hypotheses are subject to continual revision. At least afford yourself the same scientific openmindedness regarding yourself and what you consider acceptable as you would for a research project.

You know you have the Forum as a sounding board. You aren't alone.

Hang in there

Herondancer
 

Neil

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
anart said:
Let's see if I can wake you up a bit.
Yes, I'm slipping aren't I?

The reason I found that so interesting is because people usually don't think about this at all. I know it is fundamental knowledge for the awakened, but it impressed me that he was even considering such things. However, I've also read that's how people are led astray because someone offers them profound truths and then begin leading them with semi-truth and then outright lies. I guess that's what was beginning to occur by topic 3. It seems that the immediate lesson learned is to wait and see what substance is behind these declarations instead of being impressed that someone actually knows something and thinks a little.
anart said:
The Matrix has you.

That's normal - you're in a new environment that is designed to bombard all the senses and the intellect to change it and conform it. Do not underestimate its power.
Yes, I was completely off my guard on this one. I did not expect my knowledge and values to be attacked at the base; especially when they don't really know anything about me. It seems that this is a blanket technique to combat the growing awareness of the UFO phenomenon, and not really tailored toward any one person. I was aware that schooling was a form of subtle programming, but through school no one cared what I really thought about things. They just taught what they were paid to teach and went home. Now I must pay close attention because they seemed to be seriously concerned about anyone with any connections to the paranormal. I believe if I can survive the first couple of classes, it will subside because everyone should be reeducated by that point. I wonder if they will give that survey again at the end of the year just to see how well they did. It isn't an anonymous survey either...
anart said:
you might want to reconsider the whole 'eliminating the sex' thing
It doesn't take much effort any more, my drive is very low. This is a bit of a blessing because I don't obsess over chasing girls and "having one" like many of my peers do. It frees up a lot more time for study and reflection. You are familiar with the sex=love precept. Well, I'm not going to bog myself down in that kind of relationship. It is physical and nothing more than physical. Now what IF I met someone with similar beliefs and ideology? Could sex be beneficial? I have no idea. But I assume she would have similar behavior and our relationship would be quite unusual. It seems it would be a different kind of sex than what I'm exposed to, but this is pure speculation and doesn't even factor into my life at all at this point.
anart said:
Hope that wasn't too crass and abrupt - but it sounds like it's time to really pay attention to where you are and how it 'works'.
Be as crass as you please. If you are sitting at your computer yelling,"this guy is so out of it that he must be a complete idiot," then let's hear it. If my sacred cows are such that I can't take your criticism, I'm really wasting my time and yours. We won't get anywhere by sugarcoating the issues; as has been demonstrated through countless groups and philosophies. All of this has been brought to my attention at this time in my life for a reason, no doubt. If handled delicately, it could be a bit of a gift. The control system usually doesn't rear its head this blatantly in an individual's life, and this is a prime opportunity to understand how it "works" while the battles are still relatively low stakes. I will have to deal with the MCS more and more as I get older and as the wave gets closer and closer, and these opportunities will provide me with the ability to harden my will against attack.
anart said:
Pretending you 'don't fit' doesn't really make much sense - if you really didn't fit - you wouldn't be there/here.
I don't fit, with people. I'm not saying "well, I'm a Wanderer and I've done all of this before and I don't need to do any Work because you won't listen to me..." I am quite certain all of this is being shown to me for a reason; to drive home the price of ignorance, of greed, and entropy. In my opinion, I am able to see these things because I wanted to eliminate these qualities from myself, and the only way to do so was to experience them and their consequences firsthand. People in general do not see anything outside of the normal "fun" of 3D. How many people can you talk about Reality with in plain honest terms outside of this forum? They tune you out, pretend you don't exist, or attack your character or faith or whatever. It really bothers me.
herondancer said:
Good to see you back.
I've never seen you before; didn't know you followed my posts. Thanks for the support.
herondancer said:
Along with this advice, you may want to remember that G.'s goal was the balanced operation of the centres.
I really need to get In Search of the Miraculous. I know that the sexual center is supposively this source of "creative energy" and is supposed to provide energy to the higher centers, but does this mean that the sexual center has to be sexually active? Or is it a bit of a misnomer and the sexual center is not really related to sex in the physical sense? And how about this?
Transcripts said:
Q: (L) The reason I ask is because a man named Wayne Cook did some work with dowsing and he found out
that the human body, after sexual climax, dowses the same pattern as a dead body. Why is this? (T) Draining
of energy.
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Okay, where does the energy drain to?
A: To the ether.
Q: (L) Does the energy go to one or the other partner?
A: Maybe.
Q: (L) Is it possible, during this activity, for Lizzies or other beings to be hanging around and be drawing this
energy?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Is that, in a general sense, what often happens?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Is this one of the reasons that sex has been promoted and promulgated in our society to such an extent...
A: Yes, yes, yes.
And...
Transcripts said:
Q: (L) Of all the modes of sexual expression, which one is more likely to advance one to 4th density more
rapidly?
A: Total celibacy.
Q: (D) Well then I'm okay! [laughter] (V) Can you explain why total celibacy?
A: Because you are then "letting go" of the cravings for physicality.
Q: (T) It is a 3rd density act which entices you to 3rd density. (L) Okay, now, what is the second most likely
for advancement? [laughter] (D) We have me taken care of, now we're going to get you taken care of! (J) In
order of importance... [laughter]
A: Does it matter?
Q: (D) It does to Laura, would you please answer? (L) I suppose that everyone should get to the point that they
would simply desire to be totally celibate and totally let go of all physical things and so forth, but, we have left
to us, at this point, heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality and multisexuality [laughter] (D) We also have
the ability to take pleasure in our physical bodies in those forms of sexuality. We have the ability to have
pleasure in the flesh and they can't. And, what I have read, is that they envy that. (L) Is that true, that you envy
our physicality?
A: No. Not in the least!
Q: (L) I have read that when you are at the higher spiritual levels that you can do a spiritual merge which is
better than orgasm. Is that true?
A: Why do you need orgasm of any kind?
Q: (L) Well, it does seem to be like one of the penultimate experiences of physicality. (T) That's exactly it...
it's physicality... (L) If that is so, isn't everything that exists in the physical, 3rd density world, in some way a
reflection of experiences or states of being on higher realms?
A: 3rd density as you experience it is an illusion you have been fed to continue your imprisonment therein.
Q: (L) So, in other words, there is no cosmic orgasm that keeps the worlds in existence as exemplified by the
eternally copulating Vishnu and Shiva?
A: That is Bull! [laughter]
Q: (L) Well, they teach this stuff in the Eastern religions and they even have the idols sculpted in this
posture...
A: That is a rationalization to continue the illusion.
Q: (L) So, in other words, the orgasmic experience is quite literally a lure to keep us... (D) Controlled... (T)
And in the third level... (L) Is that true?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Let's go back to a question I asked in another session on this same subject: what happens to our energy
at the point of orgasm? Where does that energy go?
A: Drains to 4th level STS.
Q: (T) Is this a manifestation of the Lizards feeding off of us?
A: STSers there retrieve it.
Q: (T) So, orgasm is a 3rd density manifestation of the 4th density consumption of 3rd density energy?
A: One of their methods.
Q: (D) In "Bringers of the Dawn" it talks about sex and it says that it is an expression of love and so forth and
that you should not have sex with someone who does not really love you.
A: Love is all that is needed.
Q: (L) If two individuals, as an expression of true love at higher levels, desire to express this love in a physical
way, is it possible to channel the energy in a positive way without feeding the 4th level STS guys?
A: Nope.
Q: (L) In other words, no matter what you do, how you think, or whatever, that's where it goes?
A: Sex is a physical craving.
herondancer said:
Learning is supposed to be "fun".
Well, it is; especially after you make big discoveries. I don't sit in here and mope all the time. I still play video games, share the occasional joke with someone; but that is all just fluff stuff designed to give my mind a break. There are times when serious and grim issues need to be faced and this is one of those times. And for the record, I don't think sex should be viewed as a form of fun.
herondancer said:
Locking yourself away like a monk (G's Second Way, with its attendant weaknesses) will deprive you of the varieties of learning opportunities this new environment can afford you besides the classroom.
I tend to lean most strongly towards the way of the Yogi actually; but I do understand that the monestery is not the best place to be. You may become very disciplined, but you lose touch with the real world. I can learn a lot about people by having to be exposed to them by default, but when you want friendship or networking, you must find the right people; which is this forum, I suppose.
herondancer said:
Hypotheses are subject to continual revision. At least afford yourself the same scientific openmindedness regarding yourself and what you consider acceptable as you would for a research project.
Yes, my life is in continual flux. Things will never be exactly the same; they always change. The better you can flow with it the better off you are. Judging what is acceptable does need to be done on a case by case basis, but I have strong convictions about what should be the general rule thumb for various activities.
herondancer said:
You know you have the Forum as a sounding board.
Yes, I will most likely return when the next major thing happens.

Well, I have some more "interesting" homework to do tonight.
Explain in a short essay whether the following claims should be evaluated scientifically or whether it falls into the realm of nonscience.
"Aliens can manipulate time so that they can abduct people and perform experiments on them without the people ever realizing they were taken."

Well now, wouldn't that be freaky. I wonder if this guy actually knows what's going on. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to go with nonscience because I don't know how to explain it without sounding like a total nut. I also find it interesting that out of 9 exercises that was the only one I was assigned. There are only two exercises regarding aliens, but I guess I didn't get the other one because I could debunk it in good conscience.
"A huge fleet of alien spacecraft will land on Earth and introduce an era of peace and prosperity on January 1, 2020."

Any bright ideas?
 
Neil said:
Well, I have some more "interesting" homework to do tonight.
Explain in a short essay whether the following claims should be evaluated scientifically or whether it falls into the realm of nonscience.
"Aliens can manipulate time so that they can abduct people and perform experiments on them without the people ever realizing they were taken."

Well now, wouldn't that be freaky. I wonder if this guy actually knows what's going on. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to go with nonscience because I don't know how to explain it without sounding like a total nut. I also find it interesting that out of 9 exercises that was the only one I was assigned. There are only two exercises regarding aliens, but I guess I didn't get the other one because I could debunk it in good conscience.
"A huge fleet of alien spacecraft will land on Earth and introduce an era of peace and prosperity on January 1, 2020."

Any bright ideas?
Assume that the statement "Aliens can manipulate time so that they can abduct people and perform experiments on them without the people ever realizing they were taken." is true. This scenario implies that there is no anecdoteal evidince for the abduction but does not imply that there is no physical, statistical, or other types of evidence (maybe you could try to appeal more to your professor by using symbolic logic? Let A stand for the first statement, let n stand for the statement there is anecdotal evidence for A; A=>~n). If it is possible that there is some evidence of alien abduction (E) then it is posible that alien abduction could be studied scientifically (C) (E=>C). If aliens are experimenting (X) then they do not have perfect knowledge of the universe (K) (X=>~K). If they do not have perfect knowledge (~K) of the universe then they make mistakes (M) (~K=> M). If they make mistakes (M) then it is possible alien abduction can be tested (T) (M=>T). If it is possible alien abduction can be tested (T) then it is possible it can be falsified (F) (T=>F). If it is possible that it can be tested and falsified then it is possible that it could be scientifically evaluated (T . F=> S). Note that we are assuming that the aliens are actively trying to hide the abduction phenomena. If this is the case we can only say that it is possible that they will make a mistake within the sphere of human observation and thus that the alien abduction might be studied scientifically. However if they did not care if the abduction phenomena was studied, there would be much more evidence, and thus a much greater probability of abduction being studied scientifically. Are there any holes in my logic (if you can't find any would you mind asking your professor to look it over?)
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Hi Neil,

Both Mouravieff andGurdjieff said that those who are doing the Work must play a role as they do the Work when around those who do not do the Work. We must play the role of someone who knows nothing about the Work. If we walk around telling everyone what we really think and are doing, we are setting ourselves up to be bowled over by the General Law.

From how I understand it, and I could be misunderstanding it, these professors are asking some very strange questions about metaphysical things that they wouldn't usually ask. It seems to be a way to screen those that may be actually thinking for themselves vs. those who are going with the program and staying within the guidelines of what has been chosen for them to think.

You might want to "play the role" of those who are thinking the way that they are programmed to think. Then observe what is really going on without drawing any suspicions about yourself. This would be an excellent opportunity to learn.

However, you also want to keep your eyes open and watch your back. And coming to the group here with anything that seems a little bit suspicious, as you are doing, is something that can be a great benefit in "watching your back".

You probably already know this, but reminders from time to time are not a bad thing. ;)
 

anart

The Living Force
Neil said:
Be as crass as you please. If you are sitting at your computer yelling,"this guy is so out of it that he must be a complete idiot," then let's hear it. If my sacred cows are such that I can't take your criticism, I'm really wasting my time and yours. We won't get anywhere by sugarcoating the issues; as has been demonstrated through countless groups and philosophies.
Ok, how about this? You're no longer in high school - thus, you are going to hear many things from your professors that you would never hear from your high school teachers - but, guess what? That doesn't mean they are profound or that the words they speak are anything more than words mechanically coming out of a sound asleep person. Words, Neil - often specifically designed to prompt a response from you that serves the purpose of the professor.

To put it mildly, you are no longer a big fish in a small pond - learn your pond and stop assuming you understand all there is to understand. Crass enough?

For now, the only other thing I have to say is that you will never really learn anything of consequence if your emotional center is dead. A person can be as intellectually gifted as is humanly possible and go nowhere if his emotional center is dead - I cannot stress strongly enough how crucial this point is.
 

Ryan

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
anart said:
For now, the only other thing I have to say is that you will never really learn anything of consequence if your emotional center is dead. A person can be as intellectually gifted as is humanly possible and go nowhere if his emotional center is dead - I cannot stress strongly enough how crucial this point is.
Well, there is the option of becoming an "immortal thing" (as G. put it)... but I don't imagine the company would be much fun.
 

anart

The Living Force
Ryan said:
Well, there is the option of becoming an "immortal thing" (as G. put it)... but I don't imagine the company would be much fun.
:lol: Yes, of course you're right - I was being biased in my statement about 'going nowhere'. Fact of the matter is that one certainly can go quite a few places - just the type of places that I am working very hard to avoid.
 
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