What is your LDL cholesterol level today?

[Gateway]

What is your LDL cholesterol level today?

By virtue of some researchers, like for example Dr. Uffe Ravnskov, most of the forumers became supposedly conscious of the "cholesterol-myth" but even so this still may be an interesting reference for studies. So, how do you feel your general health state in relation to this? In addition remember that Cs have stated that not for everybody the keto diet is an appropriate path. And whether you follow or not the keto diet still your "bad" (LDL) cholesterol is regarded by "traditional" medicine as a critical indicator of heart's health. So would also very interesting to know the LDL before and/or after the keto diet whether you pursue it or followed it for some time cause this "may" indicate how it has been altered in your blood.

Into great part of my life I used to be an egg-lacto-vegetarian (and sorrowfully consuming a lot of gluten as well) and having "acceptable" levels of cholesterol. Yet since some few months ago I am kind of pursuing the keto. What will happen to my LDL later? I intend to know it after some more months ahead. And you? How your keto experience has altered your components' blood?

Current medicine preaches to us that excess amount of LDL (a low-density lipoprotein that carries cholesterol) is a critical indicator for possible coronary (heart) diseases such as sclerosis in the arteries. So, even if you don't follow the keto diet, your LDL level is a very notable reference for analyses. And of course the same is true to those who are ruled by the keto food especially if they know these levels from before and after long keeping the keto regimen. Yet should be mentioned that these figures coming from the forumers, whatsoever they are, hardly IMOP they are a final statistic to make a point but instead they are potential data to increase the knowledge about the human body.

Below are cholesterol references(*) in milligrams/deciliter used at this time by most doctors for people above 20 years old:

LDL:
Excellent: less than 100 mg/dl
Desirable: from 100 to 129 mg/dl
Limiting: from 130 to 159 mg/dl
High: from 160 to 189 mg/dl
Very high: equal or above 190 mg/dl

HDL-cholesterol: should be equal or higher than 40 mg/dl.

TOTAL cholesterol:
Excellent: less than 180 mg/dl
Limiting: from 180 to 199 mg/dl
High: from 200 to 239 mg/dl
Very high: equal or above 240 mg/dl

(*) These references may present slight variations from an medical institution to another. Besides, conventional doctors consider various factors along with these aforementioned indicators for accomplishing a clinical panorama, such as arterial stress, glycemia, triglycerides level, diseases, etc.

 

[riclapaz]

What is your LDL cholesterol level today?

By virtue of some researchers, like for example Dr. Uffe Ravnskov, most of the forumers became supposedly conscious of the "cholesterol-myth" but even so this still may be an interesting reference for studies. So, how do you feel your general health state in relation to this? In addition remember that Cs have stated that not for everybody the keto diet is an appropriate path. And whether you follow or not the keto diet still your "bad" (LDL) cholesterol is regarded by "traditional" medicine as a critical indicator of heart's health. So would also very interesting to know the LDL before and/or after the keto diet whether you pursue it or followed it for some time cause this "may" indicate how it has been altered in your blood.

Well, in my case, I have about two years into ketosis, a month perform analysis, and my total cholesterol was high, out of range, however, as you mention, there is much research about it here in the forum and sott , and in books, which explains in more detail the cholesterol myth, consumption about 20 grams of carbohydrates a day, so my triglycerides are quite low, perform exercise three times a week (weight training), occasionally took some supplements or vitamins, just to be on the safe side, so I would not worry about the high cholesterol, i think that would be seriously concerned she was under, cholesterol is essential for different functions in the body, especially the brain.

 

[Gaby]

LDL:
Excellent: less than 100 mg/dl

Gateway, if you have a chance, you can listen to this SOTT Health & Wellness radio show:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sottradionetwork/2015/04/27/the-health-and-wellness-show--27-april-2015--cholesterol

Cholesterol was addressed and some of the reasons why it is so important. We addressed briefly what can happen on the diet. LDL cholesterol might go up but this is because the anti-inflammatory sub-component derived from animal fat is big and fluffly, and can drive total LDL cholesterol levels up. Inflammatory cholesterol (i.e. triglycerides and inflammatory LDL cholesterol made up of small particles) usually go down.

You can read "The Art and Schience of Low Carbohydrate Living" by Phinney and Volek for more info. That book is good to have as a reference. In addition to that, you can search "cholesterol" on the SOTT database. You can also use the search function in this forum. People have shared scientific articles and information in general. There is also a thread on lab work here:

Help to understand blood test results...
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,31029.0.html

Anyone with an LDL cholestesrol less than 75 that I've ever met was either looking extremely ill or feeling terribly bad, no exceptions. Zombie-like people. It is very heart-breaking.

 

[Gateway]

LDL:
Excellent: less than 100 mg/dl

Gateway, if you have a chance, you can listen to this SOTT Health & Wellness radio show:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sottradionetwork/2015/04/27/the-health-and-wellness-show--27-april-2015--cholesterol

Cholesterol was addressed and some of the reasons why it is so important. We addressed briefly what can happen on the diet. LDL cholesterol might go up but this is because the anti-inflammatory sub-component derived from animal fat is big and fluffly, and can drive total LDL cholesterol levels up. Inflammatory cholesterol (i.e. triglycerides and inflammatory LDL cholesterol made up of small particles) usually go down.

You can read "The Art and Schience of Low Carbohydrate Living" by Phinney and Volek for more info. That book is good to have as a reference. In addition to that, you can search "cholesterol" on the SOTT database. You can also use the search function in this forum. People have shared scientific articles and information in general. There is also a thread on lab work here:

Help to understand blood test results...
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,31029.0.html

Anyone with an LDL cholestesrol less than 75 that I've ever met was either looking extremely ill or feeling terribly bad, no exceptions. Zombie-like people. It is very heart-breaking.

Gaby, your mention on the inflammatory conditions was quite interesting. I saw also that the thread that you pointed out though a little less specific than this yet it has something around this. So, it is quite useful as well. Thanks, excellent tips you delivered here. They were appreciated and I will try to check all.:)

One thing that caught my attention while reading Dr. Ravnskov was this following quote about some aborigine African people:

Samburus consume more than twice the amount of animal fat than the average American, and yet their cholesterol is much lower, about 170 mg/dl

It is not clear whether this "Samburus number" is the total cholesterol or only LDL, but considering the omission so it seems more likely to be the total. So, as a total rate it means an excellent rate according to "conventional medicine". Yet if this "170 mg/dl" represents the LDL cholesterol then in spite it be a high rate still it is only a little high (just within the intermediate range). Considering this I mean the point is that not necessarily a keto diet implies high rates cholesterol.

But sure each case is a particular case. That's why would be fantastic to know the forumers' LDL during this keto regimen.

 

[mcb]

...Cholesterol was addressed and some of the reasons why it is so important. We addressed briefly what can happen on the diet. LDL cholesterol might go up but this is because the anti-inflammatory sub-component derived from animal fat is big and fluffly, and can drive total LDL cholesterol levels up. Inflammatory cholesterol (i.e. triglycerides and inflammatory LDL cholesterol made up of small particles) usually go down...

You have to measure it if you want to know what your own, personal cholesterol is like. I have had elevated cholesterol all my adult life, no matter how I ate, but within the last year I have had mine analyzed both by my personal MD (who knows how to do meaningful cholesterol measurement) and by Chris Kresser, and they are in agreement that my LDL-C level is quite high and that the particle size is problematic (not big and fluffy!). I wouldn't have known that otherwise. Every body is different.

I don't have any particle size data from my pre-leto days, so I don't know how it was affected. I do know that my thyroid measures deteriorated during the keto diet, and that they have improved, along with my energy levels, since I re-introduced a moderate amount of carbs. But then I have regained most of the weight I lost with the keto diet.

The testing that Chris Kresser also turned up issues with carbohydrate and fat metabolism. Carbs seem to be my main trigger for weight gain, and I am experimenting with the forms of carbs that I consume, particularly with natural sugars vs. starch. I haven't been able to draw any conclusions so far but it is clear to me that each of us represents a unique experiment.

 

[Laura]

Well, as it happens, I had mine done the other day:

H.D.L 0.64 g/l
L.D.L. 1.36 g/l

I've been on the high fat, low carb, moderate protein thing for 7 years now.

 

[Gaby]

I haven't been able to draw any conclusions so far but it is clear to me that each of us represents a unique experiment.

Did you felt better on the keto diet? Or gaining weight on a moderate restricted diet makes you feel better?

I ask because thyroid function is a much debated subject. I tend to agree that levels fluctuate just as blood glucose levels change on the keto diet. The later ones can be low, yet the person doesn't have low sugar symptoms.

From: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28799.msg555065.html#msg555065

[...]a friend of mine started the ketogenic diet and he did a blood panel showing marked improvements in his lipid profile and uric acid levels, and he lost weight. But the tests showed sub-clinical hypothyroidism as well. The same thing has happened with a couple of other patients I've been following on the keto diet. I always kept in mind that this could be a "marker" of longevity... I remembered reading Dr. Rosedale's research on this topic which I quoted on this thread quite awhile ago. I also remembered how an Endocrinologist was explaining that elderly people who have hypothyroidism are best left alone or treated with minimal doses of thyroid hormone. If "full" hormonal therapy is given, they have greater mortality. Correcting this "problem" accelerates aging.

In case this becomes a regular finding on blood panels despite people feeling great, thought I would share the summary given in "Keto Clarity" by Jimmy Moore. It is really a great synthesis with very good points:

"The concern about thyroid function reveals a misunderstanding both among the lay public and among doctors themselves. A lower number does not necessarily mean lower function. Often it means better function. As the body is functioning better, thyroid levels go down. This is a very desirable state. This is what distinguishes health and longevity in many instances. Centenarians have lower thyroid than their elderly peers. When people criticize a very low carbohydrate diet by saying that it causes hypothyroidism, it's not only misleading but overtly wrong."
- Dr. Ron Rosedale.

[...] In fact, a diminished thyroid level is not a "pathological condition", says nutritional consultant and educator Nora Gedgaudas. As long as calories are sufficient, a lowered thyroid level is actually a sign of "improved efficiency of metabolic functioning and is literally desirable longevity marker".

[...] "When we are burning ketones from fat as our primary fuel source, our thyroid just doesn't have to work as hard as it does when it's got to manage bodily metabolism on a less-preferred fuel (glucose). When our organs, against their better judgment, are required to metabolize sugar over fat, more T3 is needed to deal with this less-than-ideal scenario. Our thyroid has to work overtime, and somebody -poor T3!- has got to do the job. But burn fat for fuel instead, and T3 gets to stay home and put its feet up." - Dr. Chris Decker.

[...] Cardiologist William Davis also says the claims about very low-carb diets and reduced thyroid function are "simply untrue". He says that when someone on a ketogenic diet loses weight, levels of thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH, of the three key thyroid hormones checked on a thyroid panel) increase and free T3 (another thyroid hormone that's checked on a more advanced thyroid panel) levels decrease, which some falsely believe indicates hypothyroidism. But Dr. Davis says this is not entirely accurate. "This specific situation does not represent disturbed thyroid function, but rather a physiological adaptation to limit weight loss by reducing metabolic rate [...] These hormonal adjustments are transient and correct themselves over several weeks after weight has plateaued.

[...] "An approach to eating that is substantially different metabolically from what most people are doing - like a low-carb, ketogenic diet- may lead to blood values that are outside the "normal range". This doesn't always mean that the value is unhealthy, because the "normal range" is defined by what is most commonly seen. The levels of thyroid hormone, for example, may be outside the normal range and yet perfectly healthy if the body needs less thyroid hormone in the blood because it is more sensitive to it. Similarly, most keto-adapted people have so co-called abnormally low blood glucose because they are burning ketones so much that they don't need high glucose levels anymore!" -Dr. Eric Westman.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Just thought I'd mention that it's also been known for a few decades and written about that there's no real direct connection between dietary cholesterol consumption and blood cholesterol results. It's pretty much all over the place when comparing consumption to blood tests - AND cholesterol in the blood fluctuates widely over time.

Since there's no correlation between dietary consumption and blood cholesterol (and the big fluctuation all the time), it seems to indicate that your body will do whatever is within the resources available to get the right amount of cholesterol circulating in the blood for all physiological functions (e.g. hormone synthesis, handling inflammation, brain and neurological functioning overall, patching up damage in vessels, etc.) to fulfill its needs. At least that's what the most convincing data and analysis seems to point to. FWIW.

 

[Alana]

Thank you for posting the thyroid info, Gaby!

I did a full blood test recently, including thyroid function, because back in 2001-2003 an endocrinologist was concerned about my TSH (high) T3, T4 (low) levels and was adamant on putting me on meds (I don't remember the numbers from back then, but he said it was really serious, and as a woman, it would get worse for me later in life). I refused the meds, but I kept checking my levels through the years and after starting low-carb, gluten/casein-free diet they seemed to normalize.

Now, the other day when I got the results back, THS was high (4.4 is the upper limit of the "normal" range and mine was 12.15) while T3, T4 levels were within the "normal" ranges. I got a bit worried and went to read about all the natural ways to treat sublinical hypothyroidism, until while reading it occurred to me, why I am worried? I don't seem to have the symptoms described, other than feeling tired often or tiring easily, but again, not all the time, which could be attributed to any other number of factors anyway.

And from what you posted above, it sounds to me that thyroid levels in blood testing are like in cholesterol testing: they really don't mean much, each person has an individual normal range for themselves which doesn't have to correspond to the medical "normal" levels, and that these results are interpreted the way they do so that people get on expensive meds for life! and make Big Pharma richer!

Getting back to the topic, ;) my blood test the other day had these results for cholesterol:

HDL: 0.98
LDL: 1.18

so all is good!

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yeah, isn't it interesting that no one in the medical field talks about high triglycerides (there's also no huge profit making drugs to lower it)?

 

[Gaby]

Yeah, isn't it interesting that no one in the medical field talks about high triglycerides (there's also no huge profit making drugs to lower it)?

"The Big Fat Surprise" by Nina Teicholz is an excellent resource to get a clear idea (without censorship) of all the research available on cholesterol. She interviewed those key persons who are involved in past or current dietary and cholesterol guidelines. You would be shocked by their abysmal ignorance on the topic. It really wants to make you cry. The world-wide impact of low fat recommendations are also "appreciated".

Basically, some have a clear idea that LDL numbers doesn't correlate with heart attacks. People with low LDL typically can have heart attacks if it is all made from sugar sources. Some are aware of this, but can't even bother to look into the research because "they don't have the time". Yet, they force their LDL and extremely low fat guidelines to the whole world without remorse or hesitation. Some have never seen a patient in their whole lives.

Those who have a good idea have battled like crazy to even get a paper published or get their fellow researchers see the data. In short, anyone who is hesitating about cholesterol and would like the "inside view" and the research available referenced in one single book, The Big Fat Surprise is a must have. It is really a study of psychopathology in the nutritional and medical field.

 

[mcb]

I haven't been able to draw any conclusions so far but it is clear to me that each of us represents a unique experiment.

Did you felt better on the keto diet? Or gaining weight on a moderate restricted diet makes you feel better?

I ask because thyroid function is a much debated subject. I tend to agree that levels fluctuate just as blood glucose levels change on the keto diet. The later ones can be low, yet the person doesn't have low sugar symptoms.

From: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28799.msg555065.html#msg555065
...

It is a tradeoff. When my weight was lower I felt better in one sense, because I could move around more easily, but in most respects I feel better having carbs back in my diet. On a near-zero carb diet I ended up, eventually, with severe GI complications that cleared up almost immediately when I brought my carb intake up (and I am only talking about ~80-120 g/d).

My problem with weight involves a lack of muscle tone that seems to be connected with congenital endocrine issues including hypogonadism, which appear to affect my thyroid status as well. So there is nothing really "typical" about my situation. But the more I read, the less sure I am that anyone having symptoms that they are concerned about is "typical."

One pattern that turned up in the advanced testing, however, is fairly common (so far as we know): SIBO. I am following a course of treatment for that, although it is as much a symptom as a cause and we don't really know what caused it in the first place. It might even point in my case to a common source of metabolic and autistic spectrum symptoms, but there is so much involved that is just unknown at this point. Potential sources include genetics and epigenetics, birth trauma (cranial), and antibiotic use that could have affected development.

In any case my goal is not to fix all this, but to keep my body running well enough to pursue my life aims. In any number of ways, the physical dysfunction actually seems to help take the focus off of the material.

 

[s-kur]

Well, my data was scare for therapist (total cholesterol = 13.6 mmol/l=5.25 g/l) I converted units here __http://www.endmemo.com/medical/unitconvert/Cholesterol.php since it was presented in mmol/l .

Today, a weelk later after that, I've got detailed results from private health care facility and they are (I'am 63 kg, 167 cm, two years for Paleo, two years for ketogenic diet):

Total cholesterol: 11.83 mmol/l or 4.45 g/l

Triglycerides: 1.46 mmol/l or 1.29 g/l

HDL: 1 mmol/l or 0.39 g/l

LDL: 10.2 mmol/l or 3.94 g/l

VLDL: 0.66 mmol\l or 0.25 g/l

As it was pointed below, I think high levels might be caused by inflammatory process in my throat and nose (and not only there though), which is why I went to a doctor which set to me an turbinal size reduction surgery and nasal septum aligning)...Also she wondered though said nothing directly besides "Hmm...thyroid gland [needs an attention?]". As it was just a consultation before I have to going to otolaryngologist-surgeon, we had no time for talking. Just an advices from her: cut out smoking, eat no bread, chips, mayo, Cola and also set rice-water diet :D

So I think I have to attentively re-read Potassium Iodide thread. Today I bought 2% lugol, will try it. Will check thyroid later.

Sorry for a bit offtopic

 

[Siberia]

Well, my data was scare for therapist (total cholesterol = 13.6 mmol/l=5.25 g/l) I converted units here __http://www.endmemo.com/medical/unitconvert/Cholesterol.php since it was presented in mmol/l .

Wow, s-kur. I thought my cholesterol level was awful, but yours is even worse.

Here are my indicators (in blue):

Total cholesterol: 11.83 mmol/l or 4.45 g/l - 6.71 mmol/l

Triglycerides: 1.46 mmol/l or 1.29 g/l - 0.9 mmol/l

HDL: 1 mmol/l or 0.39 g/l - 1.5 mmol/l

LDL: 10.2 mmol/l or 3.94 g/l - 4.8 mmol/l

VLDL: 0.66 mmol\l or 0.25 g/l - 0.45 mmol/l

As it was pointed below, I think high levels might be caused by inflammatory process in my throat and nose (and not only there though), which is why I went to a doctor which set to me an turbinal size reduction surgery and nasal septum aligning)...

In my case, high level of cholesterol is genetic, all women in my family have the same problem. The doctors are puzzled when they see our blood test results, because none of us has excess weight or unhealthy habits, but the cholesterol is high nevertheless.

I'm now experimenting with the egg yolks in my diet: I eat them every day for breakfast. I've read that yolks can help balancing cholesterol level for the better. Will report the results later on. I'm also planning to visit a lipidologist ("липидолог" in Russian), didn't have a chance to consult with her yet (we have only one such specialist in our city).

Wish you successful therapy, s-kur!

 

[Gaby]

Other than the iodine, niacin will be a great addition for super high cholesterol levels. It is also part of the iodine protocol.

More info:

http://www.sott.net/article/306543-A-constant-stream-of-expensive-drugs

Niacin is better than any cholesterol drug

Back in the 1950s, William Parsons, MD, and colleagues reported that niacin lowers bad cholesterol, increases good cholesterol, and lowers triglycerides, among other benefits, such as living longer [8]. Abram Hoffer, MD, who pioneered the use of niacin to cure schizophrenia, says Dr. Parsons provides the evidence that niacin is the "only practical, effective, safe, and cost effective method for restoring lipid levels to normal." [9]

"Niacin should probably be the first-line medication for people who want to lower their cholesterol levels," say Drs. Hilary Roberts and Steve Hickey, authors of The Vitamin Cure for Heart Disease. Additionally, the health advantages of niacin extend well beyond its ability to reduce cholesterol. "[N]iacin inhibits inflammation and protects the delicate linings of the arteries," say Dr. Roberts and Dr. Hickey, and "helps maintain the arterial wall and prevents atherosclerosis" [10].

"A vitamin can act as a drug, but a drug can never act as a vitamin."- Andrew W. Saul, PhD

The dose is the key. "[T]he data on patients with problem cholesterol/LDL levels still support 3,000-5,000 milligrams of immediate-release niacin as the best clinically-proven approach to maintaining a healthy lipid profile," says researcher professor and niacin expert W. Todd Penberthy, PhD. And, despite what you may have heard, niacin is "far safer than the safest drug." [11]

And niacin is cheaper, too

The cost of a bottle of regular, flush niacin comes in under eight bucks. Taking six to ten 500 mg niacin tablets per day ($0.03 a tablet) would cost $0.19 to $0.30. The yearly investment to take the best cholesterol lowering substance out there, would be $70 to $110. That's 20 to 100 times cheaper than statins. That's up to 200 times cheaper than Praluent. And niacin is safer then all of them.

"We've all been carefully taught that drugs cure illness, not vitamins," says Dr. Saul. "The system is remarkably well-entrenched." [5] Instead of being hailed as the safe, effective, affordable, life-saving vitamin it is, niacin is bashed in the media, and dangerous drugs are practically revered: Is the only fault we can find with them is that they cost too much?

More resources on the article.

If you want to avoid an uncomfortable niacin flush, I would start with a lower dose and increase progressively.