When Gurdjieff's father died

[Joe]

I've seen this referred to as having come from 'osho', but whatever the source, I think it's a very good idea to keep in mind and practice when appropriate

When Gurdjieff's father died Gurdjieff was only nine years old. The father was poor. He called Gurdjieff close to him and told him, "I have nothing to give you as your inheritance. I am poor, and my father was also poor, but he gave me one thing that made me the richest man in the world, although the outside poverty remained. I can only transfer the same to you.

"It is some advice. Perhaps you are too young and you may not be able to do it right now, but remember it. When you are able to act according to the advice, act according to it. The advice is simple. I will repeat it, and because I am dying, listen carefully and repeat in front of me what I have said so I can die satisfied that I have transferred the message that may have come down from father to son for centuries."

The message was simple. The father said, "If somebody insults you, irritates you, annoys you, just tell him, ?I have received your message, but I have promised my father that I will answer only after twenty-four hours. I know you are angry, I have understood it. I will come after twenty-four hours and answer you.' And the same with anything. Give a gap of twenty-four hours."

The nine-year-old boy repeated what the father said, and the father died, but because it was such a moment the message became engraved. As he repeated the message, the father said, "Good. My blessings will be with you, and now I can die peacefully." He closed his eyes and died. And Gurdjieff, even though he was nine, started practicing what was given to him. Somebody would insult him, and he would say, "I will come after twenty-four hours to answer you because that's what I have promised my dying father. Right now I cannot answer you."

Somebody might beat him, and he would say, "You can beat me right now, but I cannot answer. After twenty-four hours I will come and answer you, because I have promised my dying father." And later on he used to say to his disciples, "That simple message transformed me totally. The person was beating me but I was not going to react at that moment so there was no question except to watch.

There was nothing I had to do: now the person was beating me, I just had to be a spectator. For twenty-four hours there was nothing to do.

"And watching the man created a new kind of crystallization in me. After twenty-four hours I could see more clearly. At the moment when he was beating me it was impossible to see clearly. My eyes were full of anger. If I was going to answer at that moment I would have wrestled with the man, I would have hit the man, and everything would have been an unconscious reaction.

"But after twenty-four hours I could think about it more calmly, more quietly. Either he was right - I had done something wrong and I needed, deserved, to be beaten, to be insulted - or he was absolutely wrong. If he was right, there was nothing to say to him except to go and give him thanks.

If he was absolutely wrong... then there was no point at all in fighting with a man who is utterly stupid and goes on doing such wrong things. It is meaningless, it is wasting time. He does not deserve any answer."

So after twenty-four hours everything settled down and a clarity was there. And with that clarity and the watchfulness of the moment, Gurdjieff changed into one of the most unique beings of this age.

And this was the basic foundation of the whole crystallization of his being.

 

[ramaj]

That is a great example to follow, thank you for passing that along Perceval!

 

[Marcus-Aurelius]

A very good advice to follow indeed! Thanks for sharing, Perceval!

 

[anart]

I've seen this referred to as having come from 'osho', but whatever the source, I think it's a very good idea to keep in mind and practice when appropriate

Yeah, I'd like to see a verified source on this since something about it seems a little off to me. It's good advice, though.

 

[lwu02eb]

Timely advice, thanks Perceval. I've been thinking about this myself lately. I guess the only thing is, under what circumstances does patience become complacency? G laments the "tomorrow disease" in Beelzebub which seems like a potential contradiction, depending on circumstances.

 

[grini]

I've seen this referred to as having come from 'osho', but whatever the source, I think it's a very good idea to keep in mind and practice when appropriate

Yeah, I'd like to see a verified source on this since something about it seems a little off to me. It's good advice, though.

I found this: _http://www.osho.com/online-library-listen-gurdjieff-father-3331e999-ae4.aspx
and this: _http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Life_of_Masters/Gurdjieff/Gurdjieff_Early_Childhood_and_Passion_for_Truth.htm

Same story in both links from Osho, but not exactly the same words.

 

[Mountain Crown]

I've seen this referred to as having come from 'osho', but whatever the source, I think it's a very good idea to keep in mind and practice when appropriate

Yeah, I'd like to see a verified source on this since something about it seems a little off to me. It's good advice, though.

Nuke pointed out to me that Ouspensky wrote that he met G's father, so in that case there seems to be historical inaccuracy in this.

 

[Gertrudes]

I've seen this referred to as having come from 'osho', but whatever the source, I think it's a very good idea to keep in mind and practice when appropriate

Yeah, I'd like to see a verified source on this since something about it seems a little off to me. It's good advice, though.

Nuke pointed out to me that Ouspensky wrote that he met G's father, so in that case there seems to be historical inaccuracy in this.

Yes, I remember reading that, probably in "In Search of The Miraculous". Ouspensky wrote that not only did he meet Gurdjjief's father but, if I remember correctly and paraphrasing here, that it left quite an impression in him the admiration that seemed to transpire from G towards his father, the attentive way with which G listened to him, and the care he demonstrated.

 

[mkrnhr]

Refraining from an out-of-anger immediate reaction makes sense. However, the example of being beaten is a little exaggerated. In real life you may have to defend yourself in order to avoid being killed.

 

[grini]

I've seen this referred to as having come from 'osho', but whatever the source, I think it's a very good idea to keep in mind and practice when appropriate

Yeah, I'd like to see a verified source on this since something about it seems a little off to me. It's good advice, though.

Nuke pointed out to me that Ouspensky wrote that he met G's father, so in that case there seems to be historical inaccuracy in this.

Yes, I remember reading that, probably in "In Search of The Miraculous". Ouspensky wrote that not only did he meet Gurdjjief's father but, if I remember correctly and paraphrasing here, that it left quite an impression in him the admiration that seemed to transpire from G towards his father, the attentive way with which G listened to him, and the care he demonstrated.

You are right.

I met his family, his father, and his mother. They were people of a very old and very peculiar culture. G.'s father was an amateur of local tales, legends, and traditions, something in the nature of a "bard"; and he knew by heart thousands and thousands of verses in the local idioms. They were Greeks from Asia Minor, but the language of the house, as of all the others in Alexandropol, was Armenian.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yeah, I was going to say that G's father died when G had move to Europe. ISOTM was what I was going to quote also to point to the fact that G (with Ouspensky) visited his father several times when they were still in the Caucasus. Also there's a request by G, but I can't remember in which book right now -- might be Meetings with Remarkable Men?, if anyone visits his father's grave to write a certain passage, because G was unable to visit from the time of his father's death and never saw his grave.

Anyway, the advise itself is a good one if the law of three is applied, as always.

 

[obyvatel]

Gurdjieff devoted a chapter to his father in "Meetings with Remarkable Men". There he listed his father's philosophy and his main teachings. From that account it is clear that G's father did not die in his childhood. Also there is no mention of this particular teaching of his father.

I think Osho may have been spinning a yarn based on the older saying which advised to count to 100 before acting when one is angry.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yeah, I was going to say that G's father died when G had move to Europe. ISOTM was what I was going to quote also to point to the fact that G (with Ouspensky) visited his father several times when they were still in the Caucasus. Also there's a request by G, but I can't remember in which book right now -- might be Meetings with Remarkable Men?, if anyone visits his father's grave to write a certain passage, because G was unable to visit from the time of his father's death and never saw his grave.

Anyway, the advise itself is a good one if the law of three is applied, as always.

I found it in Meetings with Remarkable men, it's the ending of the Chapter: My Father:

I, for my part, can only say now that with my whole being I would desire to be able to be such as I knew him to be in his old age.

Owing to circumstances of my life not dependent on me, I have not personally seen the grave where the body of my dear father lies, and it is unlikely that I will ever be able, in the future, to visit his grave. I therefore, in concluding this chapter devoted to my father, bid any of my sons, whether by blood or in spirit, to seek out, when he has the possibility, this solitary grave, abandoned by force of circumstances ensuing chiefly from that human scourge called the herd instinct, and there to set up a stone with the inscription:

I AM THOU, THOU ART I,
HE IS OURS, WE BOTH ARE HIS.
SO MAY ALL BE FOR OUR NEIGHBOUR.

 

[Menna]

"If somebody insults you, irritates you, annoys you, just tell him, ?I have received your message, but I have promised my father that I will answer only after twenty-four hours. "

Over the past 12-18 months I have noticed that it takes me roughly 48-72 hours after an incident where someone did something that upsets me or is angry at me to really see both sides of it (that and it helps to post here :) ) Then I see the best way or a better way to proceed or If its even worth bringing up the incident again or is there a good chance that it will iron itself out naturally. I have noticed this since being in relationships that when telling someone you are upset with them or that you have a disagreement with to simply just tell them with words if they care words will be enough (and if they don't care then you shouldn't care but should protect yourself) but if you yell or act threatining this might tip the scale so to speak and then they wont just hear your words but see your overreaction and this has an impact on them. In my experience even after 24 hours or what have you if you still need to talk about the incident then do just that talk about it anymore will disrupt the balance of a relationship (friendship, work, any relationship) if the person cares then they will adjust or put effort in to see your view and this makes it easier for them to hear your words and then think about them if you leave out all the extra energy then they will only focus on the words not be clouded with your tone/actions/mood.

lwu02eb -

Timely advice, thanks Perceval. I've been thinking about this myself lately. I guess the only thing is, under what circumstances does patience become complacency? G laments the "tomorrow disease" in Beelzebub which seems like a potential contradiction, depending on circumstances.

I may be off as Beelzebub is very complex but I believe the "tomorrow disease" refers more towards putting off responsibilities and this topic talks more about interactions with others. There is something to not hurting others or acting badly towards others. I believe you dig a hole for your soul the more you wrongly interact with others. This last sentence might be newagey but I think interactions with people are very important as there is something that happens on a deep level when you hurt another.


Edit=Quotes

 

[anart]

So, gee, there's a shock - Osho made something up out of whole cloth. I knew it didn't sound right, just couldn't bring to mind immediately why.