work situation...potential psychopath??

[Amanecer]

I have been interacting and observing the director of a choir that i sing in and am having trouble keeping a clear picture on the situation. I couldn't think of a better place to get objective and honest insights i than here. Thanks in advance for reading....

At first, this guy(Don, i will call him) seemed like he was somewhat insecure or hesitant in his new job (choir director). He is quiet and is a very private person. My husband pointed out to me about 4 months ago, that he and the children's director spend a lot of time together (she is married, he is single). He has seen them exchanging "looks", having lunches, etc. (we live in a very small town!) About a month ago, Don asked me to sing in a talent show with him. We would be performing a scene from an opera. This particular scene had his character, Don Giovanni, trying to seduce my character. Long story short....he tried to kiss me (this was not in the script we had!!) and i did not give in to it although I must admit it was very tempting. After this, he has been very "flirty" with me, giving me intense looks, etc. At the same time, I have seen him doing the same thing to the other woman i mentioned above. The interesting thing is....when she talks to him, it is very obvious that she is attracted to him....Don, on the other hand....looks straight ahead, barely turning his head to show he is interested. I saw them walking down the street, and it almost seemed like he was just enjoying the "attention". It reminded me of the Looney Tunes where the little tiny dog is running circles around Spike, the big bull dog, trying to get his attention. I am embarrased to say, but i fell into that pattern a couple of times. I have not observed him "ignoring" people in any other situation but that one. After "waking up" I washed my hands of the situation(unscathed thankfully). Since I havent' been responding to him, he has been trying to call me and is making a big effort to try to talk to me about it. (i have not returned his calls, nor responded to his appeals to talk) at the same time, he is still continuing to "pursue" the other woman. The only conclusion I could come to as to why someone would want attention then abuse it when they get it, is that they are a narcissist, sociopath, or just a womanizing jerk. This all may be crystal clear to others on this forum....I am just having a hard time being objective because i was involved in the situation. I'm not sure if i should just leave the choir, or just keep ignoring him . I appreciate any thoughts...

 

[indigo]

I personally would let him know that you think he is being inappropriate. If it happens again i'd either bring it up to his surperior or think about finding a different choir. (you said small town so i'm assuming the latter is not an option) I do not think he is a sociopath based on what you have said as that is quite a harsh term. I would have to say that everyone wants attention at times and they get frustrated when they dont get it. Maybe he just has a bigger problem with this than most. As a man I do have to say it is hard to tell what signal a woman is putting out there(pathetic i know) maybe he picked up on the wrong one wth you and truely wanted to apologize for his mistake. I'm only saying that piece because you said the kiss was tempting and if it was tempting it would mean you wouldnt mind it all that much which he must have picked up. As for the other woman, there is a chance they just get along real well and enjoy eachothers company...have a lot in common etc. It doesn't always have to be a negative interaction because the gender differs. It almost sounds like you are jealous of this other woman and that you may secretly have a thing for this man but you just can't describe it.

i'm probably wrong though, it's late and i'm loopy. Good luck with this I hope it works out.

 

[j0da]

Hello Amancer

Could you provide some information regarding this talent show? Who and when made the decision to perform a scene from this particular opera? Is there a possibility that said performance was only a means to an end - a little pathetic ploy to get close to you?

I think there is a difference between a man acting on impulse (like indigo said - your choir director just may be a confused guy, who has problems with reading woman's non-verbal signals) and a man having an agenda and preparing whole plan to create an environment and occasion for seduction. However, even in the second case it's not necessarily an indication of psychopathy. Certainly, there may be a Vampire living in your community - your choir director - but it's too early to say with certainty what kind of Vampire is he.

So far I would classify him as "The Medicore Masculine Vampire", according to Barbara E.Hort's "Unholy Hungers" book. If you haven't read it already I would wholeheartedly encourage you to do so.

As for more scientific classification - it's beyond my capacity to tell - it's not my level yet.

 

[Amanecer]

Could you provide some information regarding this talent show? Who and when made the decision to perform a scene from this particular opera? Is there a possibility that said performance was only a means to an end - a little pathetic ploy to get close to you?

In regards to the talent show, he approached me about performing it. On previous occasions, he has asked me to sing with him but I have never taken him up on it. I did feel like he was using it as a way to spend time with me...and i have sensed that on other occasions as well.
It is not so much the content of what he says, but the way he says it and the way he looks at me. I do not feel like he generally acts on impulse, rather he seems to plan and think things through very thoroughly.

It doesn't always have to be a negative interaction because the gender differs. It almost sounds like you are jealous of this other woman and that you may secretly have a thing for this man but you just can't describe it.

I did find this person attractive....I never let myself think about it until we were practicing alone together for this show. As far as the other woman, I don't think it is jealousy.... I just feel stupid for letting myself think he thought i was "special" when he is doing the exact same thing with this other person and who knows else. I am concerned for this other woman....she has a family and from what I can tell, she has really opened her heart up to him. I don't want to see her get hurt. Another observation...he is physically very attractive and has a magnetic type of personality.....i don't think he has any trouble getting women to fall for him.


My gut feeling is that he is not a sociopath, however, there is "something" there that is just not "good". j0da, I have not read the book you mentioned, but plan on getting it.

 

[Miss Isness]

Amanecer wrote: The only conclusion I could come to as to why someone would want attention then abuse it when they get it, is that they are a narcissist, sociopath, or just a womanizing jerk. This all may be crystal clear to others on this forum....I am just having a hard time being objective because i was involved in the situation. I'm not sure if i should just leave the choir, or just keep ignoring him . I appreciate any thoughts...

Getting someone 'hooked' and then ignoring them is definitely a feeding technique. I think it's fair to say you are dealing with predatory behavior here. As for how to deal with it, I think it's important that you don't allow it to sidetrack you from your goals. There's no need to side step a little ego bruising, but if you forsee this individual interfering with your ability to realize your potential it might be a good idea to consider all the alternatives that would allow you to circumvent that, and see if there is one that will actually open up new opportunities rather than limiting you.

If you can still participate in th choir without falling prey to this guy's feeding tactics, it could be an excellent opportunity to observe and learn. Your objective observation might also provide protection to other people in the group.

Sandra L. Brown in 'How to Spot a Dangerous Man' wrote:

Pedators' motives vary. But you can be sure a predator wants something from you. That is the entire reason for the relationship. He isn't merely interested in a date. A predator, by definition, hunts and uses for his own gain. There is something in you or in your life that he wants. Maybe 'all' he wants is your utter adoration or for you to exalt his ego. Maybe he wants to move in with you so he can sponge off of you and not work. Maybe he wants your money, or maybe he wants what you can provide to help establish his image (ever heard of a 'trophy wife'?). Or maybe, as in Jenna's story below, he's most interested in the the pursuit and conquest of a woman, to the point where he has hard time accepting it when she tries to break things off with him. If you escape a predator who has these as his only motives, and death as many of them do, you should count your blessings that things did not go further and learn from the experience.

 

[zoobiedoo]

Hello Amenecer,

I would be careful about "assuming the best", so to speak. It's possible he might just be a "mixed up guy", and it seems equally possible that he's something much worse. Better to keep your eyes open and figure out what his game is exactly. Don't sweep anything under the rug because you want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Just observe coldly.

There is one "test" that you can do - keep ignoring his attempts to contact you. If he is truly sorry for his behavior then he will eventually get the hint and will feel ashamed at the thought of continuing to hound you just to apologize. If he continues trying to hound you, or he becomes very cold and mean-hearted to you, then something else *might* be at work.

In any case, it sounds like avoiding contact with him is probably the best course to take anyway. Even from a man's perspective, I have to say that his behavior sounds a little creepy.

 

[Amanecer]

Miss Isness wrote

Pedators' motives vary. But you can be sure a predator wants something from you. That is the entire reason for the relationship. He isn't merely interested in a date. A predator, by definition, hunts and uses for his own gain. There is something in you or in your life that he wants. Maybe 'all' he wants is your utter adoration or for you to exalt his ego. Maybe he wants to move in with you so he can sponge off of you and not work. Maybe he wants your money, or maybe he wants what you can provide to help establish his image (ever heard of a 'trophy wife'?). Or maybe, as in Jenna's story below, he's most interested in the the pursuit and conquest of a woman, to the point where he has hard time accepting it when she tries to break things off with him. If you escape a predator who has these as his only motives, and death as many of them do, you should count your blessings that things did not go further and learn from the experience.

This is a great quote. Several things in here that "hit the nail on the head" for me; I have gotten the sense that he isn't just interested in a date. The times I experienced it and observed it, I just thought it was really odd. In my experience, when someone is forming a new relationship, they are generally interested in talking and communicating with the other person. I have also noticed that he is very into the appearance of things...if he has depth of character/emotions, he does not readily share it (this could be a man thing...however). I don't know how to explain the details...but the trophy wife comment above, seems to fit the situation.

I will keep observing and see what happens.

 

[indigo]

I do have to say noone can control attraction it just happens..what you do with that attraction is what indicates your character. That is really cool you could control yourself and stop him. I really respect that.. it sounds like he is just a womanizer, women are objects to him and theyare for the taking and he knows he can attain his goals. I know what you mean about worrying about that other woman's family, but that is her life and if she is going to pull something that would hurt other people she loves maybe she deserves to be with mr. shallow. The point is that you are a good person and are cognant of what is going on with this man. Just my thoughts. Have a good one.

 

[Cyre2067]

One thing i can suggest is trust your gut. Also read "How to Spot a Dangerous Man" and one thing she really emphasized is that your subconcious may be picking up on things your just not consciously aware of and giving you a more visceral "Red Flag" or "Bad Vibe" about the person in order to warn you. Personally I always follow my gut, and many times it's saved me in various different ways.

So if you don't trust the guy, have a bad feeling, or just find him creepy I'd definitely keep my guard up and observe him, see what you can see.

 

[j0da]

it sounds like he is just a womanizer, women are objects to him and theyare for the taking and he knows he can attain his goals. I know what you mean about worrying about that other woman's family, but that is her life and if she is going to pull something that would hurt other people she loves maybe she deserves to be with mr. shallow.

At this moment, with Amancer's additional info I wouldn't phrase anything about this guy's attitude towards women as "he is just a...". Either by his cunning design, or by his being a complete mixed up loser, we can assume he is able to wreak havoc in many woman's life, so it's not a matter that could be taken lightly.

 

[anart]

I personally would let him know that you think he is being inappropriate. If it happens again i'd either bring it up to his surperior or think about finding a different choir. (you said small town so i'm assuming the latter is not an option) I do not think he is a sociopath based on what you have said as that is quite a harsh term.

Actually, in society today it is a very, very common thing - especially adaptive narcissism and sociopathy/psychopathy. Perhaps you could spend some time reading up on these topics on the forum to get up to speed a bit on it.

I would have to say that everyone wants attention at times and they get frustrated when they dont get it.

It sounds like you mean everyone wants to feed and they get frustrated when feeding is denied.

Maybe he just has a bigger problem with this than most.

I could be mistaken, but it seems that you are casting him in almost a victim's light - he is so lonely and needful of attention that he behaves this way - poor him.

As a man I do have to say it is hard to tell what signal a woman is putting out there(pathetic i know) maybe he picked up on the wrong one wth you and truely wanted to apologize for his mistake.

Could you elaborate on this? What do you mean by 'signal' they're putting out there - it, again, sounds like you are blaming the females in this situation for the male's actions. It, and I mean no offense, but it almost sounds animalistic - why would anyone act on 'signals' that they subjectively 'pick up on'? It certainly sounds like you are saying that 'she asked for it'.

I'm only saying that piece because you said the kiss was tempting and if it was tempting it would mean you wouldnt mind it all that much which he must have picked up. As for the other woman, there is a chance they just get along real well and enjoy eachothers company...have a lot in common etc. It doesn't always have to be a negative interaction because the gender differs. It almost sounds like you are jealous of this other woman and that you may secretly have a thing for this man but you just can't describe it.

I would have to disagree here. Again, you seem to be saying that because she had momentary fleeting thoughts that this man was attractive in some way that she was 'asking for it'. Is that your perception? Is there a reason that you have shifted the focus of responsibility from the predator to the prey?

 

[Miss Isness]

Anart,

you have expressed my sentiments almost exactly....

 

[indigo]

I wasn't trying to be rude but it must have came across that way I didn't think everything I said would be criticed piece by piece. I'm new to the world of forums, this is the first one I have ever joined. I need to learn some things clearly im sorry. In some parts I was maybe trying to put out there what he may have been thinking not backing him up but showing his wrong.
Sorry anart I think you misinterperted my statement and I can see how that is possible when re-reading it.

-I'm attaining a minor in psycology and we get taught that a true sociopath is VERY RARE to come by. But that obviously could be wrong. I'm going by that...but i'm not saying it's right. I will believe someone who has more experience with it than a couple of college classes i'm sorry.

-

Maybe he just has a bigger problem with this than most.

In general I just meant he has a problem... not saying hes a victimeby any means....

As a man I do have to say it is hard to tell what signal a woman is putting out there(pathetic i know) maybe he picked up on the wrong one wth you and truely wanted to apologize for his mistake.

There I was trying to say he is sick....and he probably picked up on a non existant signal...but he wanted to apologize for his own reasons not to actually make her feel better.

\
Anyway I was for sure on her side and when re-reading I see how bad it looks. If it were a phone conversation it wouldn't have sounded like that. I will try and work on my forum skills. :( sorr

 

[Approaching Infinity]

-I'm attaining a minor in psycology and we get taught that a true sociopath is VERY RARE to come by. But that obviously could be wrong. I'm going by that...but i'm not saying it's right. I will believe someone who has more experience with it than a couple of college classes i'm sorry.

Sounds like your profs are ignorant. At least 1.3% of the population are "true psychopaths". Rare, but not "very rare".

 

[indigo]

Sounds like your profs are ignorant. At least 1.3% of the population are "true psychopaths". Rare, but not "very rare".

--Wow that is very surprising and kind of freaky! I'm open to learning these things and reading more