Working on self, when your other half is preadamic (organic portal)

[Hitsu]

Hi Folks!

On some Monday I spoke with one buddy. He was seriously interested in spiritual development.
After marrying a OP, he said that his development stuck, he don't have much time (working full time + right now they have 1st children) PLUS it is much harder to make progress when you have a lot of 'obstacles'.

---

I was thinking about this - you decide to work seriously on self (4th way/anything legit), but your husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend is pre-adamic.

1. So your other half will never understand this. Moreover she/he can attack you when you start work.
2. In the cassiopaea article about OP
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals.htm
there was a mention that if one wants to build a soul, he should avoid OP, without this it will be hard to develop a soul, since OP steals that energy.

So, I understand that it will be much harder or impossible to make significant spiritual development if "you are with OP".

What do you think about this? I am right?

 

[lilyalic]

I'm not sure I agree with the assumption of it being much harder to do the Work when your spouse isn't into it. There's a whole thread outlining the difficulties in relationships within the Work here; http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,36240.msg577829.html#msg577829

With those who are happy in their marriages, they tend to need to bump up the external consideration for the other as in it is their choice whether they want to awaken or not, it is individually their path. There are also a lot of forum members who have split from their relationships as a result of the constant differences OSIT.

The people closest to you can become the main vectors of attack, but I think that links in with wanting your partner to be part of what you are, and then they end up negatively reacting and you can further direct them away from any form of spiritual development.

It also might help if you read this C transcript: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,36716.msg538036.html#msg538036

(Perceval) It sounds kind of like a fairly typical situation where one...

(L) … partner is interested in things...

(Perceval) ... and tries to talk about it, and the other one doesn't want to hear it. That creates animosity, and it's that which is the source of the problem.

(L) It's not the interest that's the problem, it's that the other person is a controlling kind of person who doesn't want to listen and doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

(Chu) We don't know what he said, but she says he keeps talking about the "time of transition". But we know of people who went completely non-strategic or caring about their partners, and they started trying to scare them. Like, "The Wave is coming!" and blah blah blah. But we don't even know for sure that he's doing that.

(Perceval) It's possible that he is...

(Chu) So if there is some of that, and he hasn't networked about it...

 

[Keyhole]

Hitsu, what makes you/your friend so certain that this particular person is an OP?

 

[Hitsu]

I was thinking about this paragraph

And it is all organized to prevent YOU from advancing, to distract YOU, to keep YOU concerned with a husband, wife, mother, father, daughter or son who is beyond your ability to "save" because he or she cannot be "saved" -- they are fundamentally different from you, they do not have the DNA which would allow a soul to "seat" so as to enable an understanding of the possibility of a higher life. Worse, they are draining you of vital energy and thus denying you any chance of developing your magnetic centre, with the final destination of this energy being 4D STS. It feeds and maintains the Matrix. In these interactions, you are nothing but a battery and the organic portals in your life are the "feeding tubes."

You need that energy to advance. It is yours, and it is your right to claim and retain it. But to do so, you must stop this "dance of death" with the Organic Portals in your life.

 

[Hitsu]

Hitsu, what makes you/your friend so certain that this particular person is an OP?

Main question is more abstract:

Is it possible to make significant spiritual progress if you are married with OP?

Rather than:

I am with OP, can I make significant progress? etc

 

[Keyhole]

I was thinking about this paragraph

And it is all organized to prevent YOU from advancing, to distract YOU, to keep YOU concerned with a husband, wife, mother, father, daughter or son who is beyond your ability to "save" because he or she cannot be "saved" -- they are fundamentally different from you, they do not have the DNA which would allow a soul to "seat" so as to enable an understanding of the possibility of a higher life. Worse, they are draining you of vital energy and thus denying you any chance of developing your magnetic centre, with the final destination of this energy being 4D STS. It feeds and maintains the Matrix. In these interactions, you are nothing but a battery and the organic portals in your life are the "feeding tubes."

You need that energy to advance. It is yours, and it is your right to claim and retain it. But to do so, you must stop this "dance of death" with the Organic Portals in your life.

Ok. What is important to understand is that, while in one's current state of sleep, you are not only drained by OP's but you are also drained by anyone who participates in feeding behaviour. You can also be the one who feeds off of others aswell. This is why it is of primary importance first of all to try and identify those feeding relationships in your life.

This does not necessarily mean accusing others of being soulless and immediately cutting contact with those whom you suspect to be OP's (I am guilty of this, and so are others here). The fact is, that we are simply unable to determine whether another has a soul or not. We cannot see the unseen, so to speak. Therefore we must learn and employ methods for dealing with others around us, in such a way as to limit the amount of feeding that takes place. This is the beginning of learning to conserve ones energy, because a lot of it is lost through our daily interactions. This is part of the Work that is practiced here.

Be careful not to operate under the assumption that someone is an OP. There may be signs, however it can only ever be a working hypothesis. For all you know, that person may be a souled individual going through a struggle and may simply be at a different stage on the learning cycle, succumbing to the A influences of life.

 

[Renaissance]

Hi Folks!

On some Monday I spoke with one buddy. He was seriously interested in spiritual development.
After marrying a OP, he said that his development stuck, he don't have much time (working full time + right now they have 1st children) PLUS it is much harder to make progress when you have a lot of 'obstacles'.

Where did the idea come from that his partner is an OP? Is he reading the material and coming to these conclusions himself?

 

[Hitsu]

Hi Folks!

On some Monday I spoke with one buddy. He was seriously interested in spiritual development.
After marrying a OP, he said that his development stuck, he don't have much time (working full time + right now they have 1st children) PLUS it is much harder to make progress when you have a lot of 'obstacles'.

Where did the idea come from that his partner is an OP? Is he reading the material and coming to these conclusions himself?

Ah, good one - this one is not certain. I don't know her, sorry. My fault.

But this triggered me to think more about this, so I asked ...

 

[riclapaz]

Hitsu, what makes you/your friend so certain that this particular person is an OP?

Main question is more abstract:

Is it possible to make significant spiritual progress if you are married with OP?

Rather than:

I am with OP, can I make significant progress? etc

I think it would only be perhaps a little more difficult spiritual development, I do not think it impossible, as always latent possibility to find OP, throughout our life, another aspect to consider is the karma, or the lessons he is learning people with a soul, to live with an OP, we do not know at what level are people in their lessons, and nothing more, in the end, each person creates their reality, with the choices you make day to day, if he thinks his wife is an OP, and that the possibility of greater spiritual development, even if it means separating from his wife, this would be a very personal decision, and depends on many things at stake, especially the level of being.

 

[Nienna]

Hi Folks!

On some Monday I spoke with one buddy. He was seriously interested in spiritual development.
After marrying a OP, he said that his development stuck, he don't have much time (working full time + right now they have 1st children) PLUS it is much harder to make progress when you have a lot of 'obstacles'.

Where did the idea come from that his partner is an OP? Is he reading the material and coming to these conclusions himself?

Ah, good one - this one is not certain. I don't know her, sorry. My fault.

But this triggered me to think more about this, so I asked ...

I think that what needs to be remembered about the OP Topic is what the Cs warned about:

Q: Mouravieff says that the "pre-Adamic" humans do
not have the higher centers, nor the possibility of
developing them in this cycle - which we assume to
be the Grand Cycle you have previously described, the
length of which is around 300,000 years. Is this an
accurate representation of "pre-Adamic" beings?
A: Yes, they are "organic" portals between levels of
density.
Q: Based on what Mouravieff has said, it seems to be
so that any efforts to try to raise the consciousness
of such individuals is doomed to fail.
A: Pretty much. Most of them are very efficient
machines. The ones that you have identified as
psychopaths are "failures." The best ones cannot be
discerned except by long and careful observation.
Q: (V) Have I, or anyone in this room, ever
encountered any, and if so, can you give us an
example for reference?
A: If you consider that the population is equally
distributed, then you will understand that in an
ordinary "souled" person's life, that person will
encounter half as many organic portals as souled
individuals. BUT, when someone is in the process of
"growing" and strengthening the soul, the Control
System will seek to insert even more "units" into that
person's life. Now, think of all the people you have
ever met and particularly those with whom you have
been, or are, intimate. Which half of this number
would YOU designate as being organic portals? Hard
to tell, eh?
Q: (BT) Is this the original meaning of the "pollution of
the bloodline" that the Bible talks about?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) This certainly gives a whole new meaning to all
the experiences we have had with people like "Frank"
and Vincent Bridges and Terri Burns, Olga and the rest
of the gang! What this means is that the work of
discerning these organic portals from souled human
beings is CRUCIAL to the so-called ascension
process. Without the basic understanding of
transformation of, and conservation of energies, there
is no possibility of fusing a magnetic center. No
wonder the Bridges gang and the COINTELPRO types
went bananas while I was publishing the Adventures
Series! And sheesh! They will go bonkers with this
organic portal stuff! (V) In thinking back over my life,
it seems to me that my father is certainly one of
these organic portals.
A: Now, do not start labeling without due
consideration. Remember that very often the
individual who displays contradictory behavior may be
a souled being in struggle.

Too many times we see people playing the "spot the OP" game. They don't even consider that they may be OPs themselves, or that the person they are pointing at are, as the Cs said, a souled being in struggle.

Laura said elsewhere that she thinks that we are all OPs until we Work to change it (paraphrasing). Also, I think that it is very easy to point a finger at someone else and blame them for our failure to change when we should be looking in the mirror to see the cause of our problems. That's not always the case, but it is a large part of it. It's so much easier to blame someone else.

 

[Tracy Anne]

My first husband of 20 years is an OP. Well thats my opinion anyway. He reminds me of Laura's ex husband Larry, except not religious. I continued to try to grow as much as I could in the relationship but in the end it was a constant struggle, and I felt that he was trying to stop me in my progress. I read in Amazing Grace that Laura felt that there were forces working through Larry to try and stop her too. I tried and tried to talk with him but he was not a talker and never wondered about the ways of the world or the universe. He just didnt 'get it' and never asked questions. I think I must have been very annoying to him!

We meet up with our daughters and spouses for family times and he really has not changed in all these years. Our daughters agree with me.

After the marriage ended it took me 13 years to find the right partner for me. I was just too weird for most men! :D

So Hitsu, the development and work that a person does, may be slowed down by being with an OP, but I do beleive that sometimes it may be part of the plan, to stop us doing that.

I do agree with the others that it is difficult and not right to always try and work out if someone is an OP, however with my husband, who I married last year, we both did a lot of differential diagnosis on each other for around 6 months before we even started dating!

 

[Laura]

Hi Folks!

On some Monday I spoke with one buddy. He was seriously interested in spiritual development.
After marrying a OP, he said that his development stuck, he don't have much time (working full time + right now they have 1st children) PLUS it is much harder to make progress when you have a lot of 'obstacles'.

It is a HUGE assumption that one is married to an Organic Portal. The truth is, until we deal with a lot of stuff, we are ALL OPs.

The Fourth Way is based on working in the conditions in which you find yourself; that they are perfect for you. It's not true that it is harder to progress due to obstacles; it is the grit that sharpens the blade. And what would progress be worth if it was easy?

Sounds to me like this guy is just using the idea of OPs as an excuse to get out of responsibilities. That means he's not even a good obyvatel and you can't begin the work in a serious way unless you can at least support others.

---

I was thinking about this - you decide to work seriously on self (4th way/anything legit), but your husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend is pre-adamic.

See above: that's a HUGE assumption to make. Ultimately, you can never make it absolutely.

1. So your other half will never understand this. Moreover she/he can attack you when you start work.

So, you read Mouravieff and learn about how to construct a strategic enclosure.

2. In the cassiopaea article about OP
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals.htm
there was a mention that if one wants to build a soul, he should avoid OP, without this it will be hard to develop a soul, since OP steals that energy.

Perhaps you should quote the passage exactly?

So, I understand that it will be much harder or impossible to make significant spiritual development if "you are with OP".

What do you think about this? I am right?

You are wrong. See all reasons given above.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

It is easy at the beginning of doing research here, to fall into the trap, but it is not our job to judge who is and who is not OP. After a while, we can certainly recognize patterns and programs that are running our behaviors and behaviors of people around us ... but that is how it is, and as long as they don't see anything disturbing with that, or if the individual don't see any point or wish to explore and read some stuff form the sources we are recommending, there is not much about that we can do. But it is not good to use their ignorance as excuse for our own discourage to do the Work, as we are not alone, and thanks to all great work, already done by members of FOTCM and this forum, that is here open for us 24h a day, every day, there is no any point in searching for excuses outside of us, why not to be more devoted to the Work.

In last few months, i do questioned myself can i do the Work alone in my home, in my town, in my country, where no any single relative or friend of mine around me, practicing the same. What was difficult for me a bit is the fact that i can't get into conversation in my native language, face to face, about stuff i just read or experienced. In particular my concern was so hard about intimate relationships. Big question mark was shall i get involved in romantic and intimate relationship with person who don't practice the Work, and don't read an have at least similar tendency to build the esoteric, historical, scientific knowledge as i do. But so far after having few turbulent moments, i realize that this really doesn't meter for my personal orientation towards doing the Work, and continuing with development i decided to go for. Thorugh the time, as i was getting to know more and more, i found the way how to talk about stuff with my friends too, and with my partner. And i see they respect my will to go into that direction and they respect my development, as they can probably also see direct benefits from that, as probably my attitude towards conflicting and black and white situations changed a lot, and i am more tolerant and more open to whatever they might need me to.

On the other side yes i am still struggling to hold my temper when i obviously see the program is run and i am again put into the situation to become a battery for emotional energy exhausting, and if that is coming from very close person, my child or partner, i snap and lose control, but at least i think that now i know what happend and i am not any more locked in slef pitty for to long .... Sure there is still situations when i am feeling like no one understands me, but than in that moments of conflicts i just use to practice self-remembering and external- consideration what makes me able to see a bigger picture, and work on my reactions in future conflicting situations.

Also maybe will be interesting to mention that for long time i was concerned how i can take this path without getting all my kids involved in that ( i have 4), but as deeper as i am researching, i understand better what one individual soul and free will is all about, and that my role in life as a parent is not to protect my kids from all the evil of the world, but to be who i am, and through my life to give example, so if they ever need answers to similar questions i have, and if they ever want to go this way, i am here, close enough to help them to go the same way i am going now. So that motivates me even more to do the Work, or how to say, to be a lighthouse to anyone who might one day sail my shores in a need of warm compassionate shelter and nice book recommendation ... ;)

And as time is progressing i am getting to know more individulas from my country who are on the same path ... stil just through the on-line mediums, but it is great to "talk" (write) about stuff at your native language ... gives another dimension to personal growth and better understandnig of specific local programs ...

 

[Mikey]

After marrying a OP, he said that his development stuck, he don't have much time (working full time + right now they have 1st children)

I wanted to locate a quote from Gurdjieff saying (paraphrasing here) that once parents have a child, their responsibility then lies entirely with the child and that their own lives are 'over' from a certain perspective. I cannot locate it... Does somebody know where to find it?

 

[Breton]

After marrying a OP, he said that his development stuck, he don't have much time (working full time + right now they have 1st children)

I wanted to locate a quote from Gurdjieff saying (paraphrasing here) that once parents have a child, their responsibility then lies entirely with the child and that their own lives are 'over' from a certain perspective. I cannot locate it... Does somebody know where to find it?

Maybe it was this one:

Questioner: ...there is something in me that opposes my work and helps my inertia. In general I recognize the fact that mere life can't give me anything; and yet there is something in me that waits for life, not only something exterior but something interior, that says it would be preferable to have a change of exterior conditions which would give me everything I love in general. And even when I am sure intellectually that only work is important for me and that I should put everything on the work, I feel something in me that is convinced of the contrary and which tries to go in this direction.

Qurdjieff: What direction?

Questioner: Away from the work. ...

Qurdjieff: What you lack is remorse of conscience. You do not think of that. Have you children?

Questioner: Yes.

Qurdjieff: How many? Questioner: Three.

Qurdjieff: Three! Well, if you have three children you should know that your life doesn't exist any more for you yourself, but for your children. Is it for your children that you do everything or for your own satisfaction? Ask yourself that. If you have asked yourself that, I can tell you that you have no remorse of conscience toward your children. That can serve you as a reminding factor to make you work in order for you to become a real man. You have no right to your own satisfactions, that is finished. Everything is for your children-everything that you have for possibilities. It is an objective necessity. But you do not think of it, you continue to act the egoist. Your question proves it. So have remorse of conscience for the future. Repair the past for the sake of the future. You are obliged to work for your children. This idea held in you can play the role of a factor, at times for remembering yourself, at times for giving you strength for the future. And with it you will be able to repair the past. You do not like this truth. But I tell it as an example. There are a thousand other things; this is an example. But you can find something else to furnish you with a material capable of making you find remorse of conscience. Only this remorse can crystallize the factors which will serve you in remembering yourself. The rest cannot. Only remorse of conscience can. It is here that you talk; and afterward in life you forget everything. In life you have six days, twenty-three hours and fifty minutes. Here, ten minutes. What you do and gain here during ten minutes, you lose in life. Never is there a reminding factor, only remorse can give it to you.