Yoga

Aaron r

Jedi Master
Approximately 15 years ago I got into doing yoga probably 7-8 sessions per week. I was full of enthusiasm with absolutely no knowledge. Heart was in the the right place but in a New Agey kind of way.

Probably after a couple of weeks I really started to notice some changes that were very unexpected. Essentially my stress levels dropped to the point where I was the most relaxed dude around, slept for about 5-6 hours a night and felt supremely refreshed. My diet changed to the point I became a vegan without any trying. It was almost like I could feel the "energy" of the food I put in my mouth. If it was not "compatible" it would not feel right and I would feel heavy and sluggish.

In the end it sort of got a bit much for me. It all just seemed so left field. Thinking back it was like I was becoming more aware of my programs as well but didn't know what to do. It overwhelmed me.

I'm in a position where I feel like I want to take the yoga up again but not so hardcore. Bit wary because the changes came thick and fast and now with the Sott material I am not a New Ager. I am wondering if anyone has any comments/insights?
 
Yoga is cool. It definitely has more then one benefit for your body and mind.

Problem for me was that it usually comes with a package - buckets of love and light, vegetarianism, ycyr etc.
Once I started looking at it as stretching workout only things got much better.

FWIW I don't see anything wrong with practicing yoga, maybe twice - three times a week if you can afford the time.
But I see a lot of things wrong with yogi's outlook on life, and especially with not taking enough protein and animal fat.
 
you might wanna check out this movie, haven't seen it myself but it sounds very interesting

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=19584.0
 
Thanks Corto. The thing with the veganism is that it happened all by itself. I remember cooking myself some eggs because I thought I must need them. I surely didn't feel like them. It basically put me to sleep, it was so heavy. Otherwise I felt really good but it was kind of like I was going to float away I felt that light but not light-headed at all.
 
I think the exercises themselves are fine. If you focus on them and not on any of the New Agey icing then you can benefit from it. It certainly has helped me feel better the handful of times I've done it.
 
I think yoga as an exercise has great benefits- there are some kinks in my body that I really haven't found any other way to keep UNkinked other with regular practice. Of course I forget to do a whole routine often, but that's another issue of mine. :-[ Thanks for a reminder to get started again!

I agree with Corto- either a full session (45 minutes to hour) 2-3 times a week is fine, or doing just a little bit (5-20 minutes?) every day is probably good for the body and good for discipline.. It probably would be a good idea to balance this exercise with interval training and weight lifting/strength training as well. I have found a lot of useful articles and exercise videos on mercola, there is a whole fitness section of the site. Don't know so much about his stretching recommendations, but I find yoga works great.
 
Corto said:
Yoga is cool. It definitely has more then one benefit for your body and mind.

Problem for me was that it usually comes with a package - buckets of love and light, vegetarianism, ycyr etc.
Once I started looking at it as stretching workout only things got much better.

FWIW I don't see anything wrong with practicing yoga, maybe twice - three times a week if you can afford the time.
But I see a lot of things wrong with yogi's outlook on life, and especially with not taking enough protein and animal fat.
I am curious what you mean by this statement. Yoga is a vast field - it pretty much covers the first 3 Ways mentioned by Gurdjieff - that of the fakir, monk and yogi. Hatha Yoga would be similar to the Way of the Fakir, Bhakti (devotion) Yoga the Way of the Monk and, and Gyana (knowledge) Yoga the way of the Yogi. There is Raja Yoga which has parallels with the royal way of esoteric Christianity. Learning traditional Yoga disciplines required separation from regular life - a fact that Gurdjieff mentioned in ISOTM. Traditional Yoga has very little (if anything) in common with the New Age movement. The New Age movement has used Yoga to further its agenda by adopting bits and pieces of information and exercises pertaining to Yoga and adding disinfo on top of that to make a sleek commercial package.
Traditional yoga is primarily a monastic way of life to the best of my knowledge. Traditional yogis - past and present - are usually vegetarians and do not take animal fat or animal protein. Still they are very healthy, vigorously active and many live to a ripe old age. Some advanced ones even predict the time of their death and just roll their eyes and keel over at the predicted time.
Traditional yoga schools are somewhat secretive in the sense that the general public is not privy to all the information contained inside them. From what they do write for the public, it is apparent that they are very aware of the spirit world, a realm of angels and demons etc though they do not spell out the hyperdimensional aspect with the clarity of Laura and the C's. And I have not encountered the component of psychopathology in any of the Yoga related writings I am familiar with.
The yoga that is popular in the US and elsewhere is perhaps very different from traditional yoga schools in India. Even a couple of non-traditional yoga schools that I was familiar with in India taught postures (asanas) and breathing techniques and did not teach any love and light or ycyor concepts or made any claims to take a person towards spiritual enlightenment. Postures and simple breathing techniques are the part of traditional Yoga that is usually shared with people outside the monastic school setting - and it may be a good idea to stick to these for safety reasons. Practiced incorrectly, advanced yogic techniques can cause significant harm to the body and mind.
My 2 cents - fwiw
 
obyvatel said:
I am curious what you mean by this statement.
You partially answered your question here:
obyvatel said:
The yoga that is popular in the US and elsewhere is perhaps very different from traditional yoga schools in India Even a couple of non-traditional yoga schools that I was familiar with in India taught postures (asanas) and breathing techniques and did not teach any love and light or ycyor concepts or made any claims to take a person towards spiritual enlightenment.
But even when it comes to the way of the yogi in purest traditional form I don't believe that the way to enlightenment is possible only through moving center or only through the emotional center or only through mind. Especially not through isolating from the world you were placed in for the certain lessons.
My observation about longevity of yogis is different then yours ( of course I never been to India and studied native, pure traditional yogis, but I had very close relationship with one pretty dedicated western yogi) although this person is very fit for their age I didn't notice that they were any healthier me, if anything I would get sick less throughout the year, in fact although this person appeared youthful there was a point where this person aged suddenly and siginficantly, plus there were unmistakable signs of malnutrition there and I see these signs on most of the pictures of Indian yogis.
In fact I think that youthful appearance of Indian yogis is deception because we usually see very old people who are extremely flexible but they are still wrinkled and gray haired. And off course daily meditation gives them bright eyes and blissful appearance of their faces.
In fact more I think about it - it appears to me that yogi's and vegetarians are more wrinkled then people who take animal fats regularly.
I dont know if you are familiar with experiments on rats where it was discovered that malnutritioned rats had significantly extended life span. That could explain ripe old age you are talking about.
My great grandmother was one year short of hundred when she died. She was never sick and she took care of herself almost until the last moment. She never practiced yoga , but she smoked pipe from very young age until the very last moment, she also ate all the "bad" things including lots of animal fats and protein and she had at least one glass of very dry red wine a day. Sometimes two but never more then that.

As for the spiritual development of this yogi I had the opportunity to observe, well that is very interesting but yet another story.
 
I enjoy yoga...but I no longer go to yoga studio's. I just enjoy it at home when I am able to get into a routine.

This is my favorite yoga book:
http://www.amazon.com/Light-Yoga-Bible-Modern-Yoga/dp/0805210318

In the back it has a 3 year (I believe) series of routines that increase on a weekly basis...so the first 1wk-3wk is a program of 7 or so poses which take no more then 15 minutes to perform. And from there you can increase the number, variety and length of poses depending on desire. I always thought it was most beneficial to do a program at home as I easily get sidetracked in my life from going to a studio. It can also get pricey going to a studio.

I don't really think yoga was ever meant to be performed as normally taught in america. I think it was always supposed to be physical movement, with a breathing component and the intention of inner progress firmly in place. But what you see in american ads and alot of gyms is just stretching...and stretching is not yoga.


Corto said:
I dont know if you are familiar with experiments on rats where it was discovered that malnutritioned rats had significantly extended life span. That could explain ripe old age you are talking about.

Corto do you have a link or reference for these experiments...I have never seen anything that linked malnutrition to extended life span...I have however seen experiments that link low-calorie diets to extended life span, but the diet was nutritionally complete. I would be interested to see a malnutrition study like you describe.
 
right, should have used the term under-nutrition.
Freudian slip, probably because in my books it equals malnutrition ;)
 
Corto said:
But even when it comes to the way of the yogi in purest traditional form I don't believe that the way to enlightenment is possible only through moving center or only through the emotional center or only through mind. Especially not through isolating from the world you were placed in for the certain lessons.

The word Yogi as used by Gurdjieff may be different from the meaning of Yogi as a practitioner of Yoga. There are traditional spiritual schools in India that incorporate elements of the 3 Ways in their activities. The stress is more on the emotional (Bhakti yoga - monk) and intellectual (Gyana Yoga - or yogi as per G) aspects while physical exercise (Hatha yoga - fakir as per G) and diet are used to strengthen the body. The body is treated as a means to an end and is not emphasized beyond the practical necessity of keeping it strong and free from disease. These schools are not called Yoga schools but spiritual schools which practice Yoga.

Regarding isolation from the world, well the monastic setting is a strategic enclosure for a group of like-minded individuals. These schools do interact with the outside world and provide services. I think it is important to consider these schools in the context of the environment in which they exist. Daily life in many parts of India is very different (much harder) compared to the west. Many people go to spiritual institutions to momentarily escape the "terror of the situation" - and they get what they "ask" for. There does exist a different vibration in some of these places where a visit can lead to calming of the mind. Devotional services are most popular in keeping with the culture in India. Worship services, devotional songs and chants, celebration of festivals and talks/seminars are some of the ways in which large masses of people can participate in the activities of these schools. Counselling of individuals may also be provided. Those schools in remote areas provide food and lodging to travelers free of cost or with a nominal charge. All these activities comprise the outer circle of the school.

Yoga could be a remnant of ancient knowledge that got dispersed and consequently diluted and corrupted down the centuries. There are striking parallels between the ideas put forward in Gnosis by Mouravieff and aspects of Raja Yoga as taught by Swami Vivekananda (one of the traditional teachers ) - there is a thread on this topic here. As to whether this path can lead to real spiritual progress, I feel that unless one is closely acquainted with the fruits of their work and the methods used in the inner circle, it is difficult to get a solid answer. Traditional yogis may not seek publicity and rely on person to person interaction for the transmission of their knowledge. What does seem to be true is that authentic Yoga schools do not exist in the western world and are difficult to penetrate into even in India.
 
aaron r said:
I'm in a position where I feel like I want to take the yoga up again but not so hardcore. Bit wary because the changes came thick and fast and now with the Sott material I am not a New Ager. I am wondering if anyone has any comments/insights?

FWIW I use some Yoga exercises before I'm doing the EE program for warm up.
 
obyvatel said:
Regarding isolation from the world, well the monastic setting is a strategic enclosure for a group of like-minded individuals. These schools do interact with the outside world and provide services. I think it is important to consider these schools in the context of the environment in which they exist.
this is still isolation from full spectrum of 3 D experiences, have a look at this:
cassiopeadia said:
The 4th Way differs from these in that it seeks to simultaneously develop all three sides and to do so in the environment of ordinary life, whereas the three first ways all require from the beginning a complete abandoning of daily life and a seclusion into a monastic environment. The 4th Way is sometimes therefore called the way of the 'sly man.' All the 4 ways may lead to the same understandings and may bring their practitioner from the 'outer circle' of humanity to the 'exoteric' and later 'mesoteric' and 'esoteric' circles .


obyvatel said:
Yoga schools do not exist in the western world and are difficult to penetrate into even in India.
Yes, so pretty much everything we can say on this subject doesn't really have a lot of value unless we manage to penetrate into these schools and come back here to report ;)

I think when aaron asked about yoga he was interested in our experiences of yoga as it is practiced in western world.
 
Aaron,

As a Yoga teacher and practioner of yoga for many years you won't be suprised that I would recommend Yoga as a physical form of exersize.

Like all things it suits some people more than others and some not at all. I personally do not teach all the "New Agey" love and light as I participate here and it would be completely wrong to teach something I don't believe. I am fully aware that there are teachers who feel that all that "love and light" stuff should be part of their teaching, almost as if it's expected by their students and if they don't preach it they aren't being "spiritual and Yogic".

I personally believe Yoga is great at moving very deeply stored physical stress, its good for the joints, Flexibility and if well taught avoids any competative edge hopefully allowing people to start to listen to what there body needs in terms of being more aware of the body. This may or may not lead to a greater awareness of other aspects of themselves, I guess it depends on the individual.

There is very little evidence in the ancient Yogic texts of many Asana (Postures) at all, The word Asana is formed from the verb root As, "to sit". The asana practice we are familiar with seems to come later,that may reflect that other postures were kept secret or that they are a more recent development in yoga but certainly the phyiscal practice was considered as a pretext to the more subtle work of meditation and from there we are back to the problems of the Way of the Yogi as a complete practice.

I think practising Yoga exersizes at home is as good a way as any especially as you have already practiced. Take it slow and steady and observe what starts to come up. You can always back off a bit if it gets too much. IMHO
 
Thanks to all for the discussion. My thinking is that I will take it nice and slow. My hopes are that it will benefit the EE program as opposed to supplant it.

In regards to the discussion about yoga and the Work, my feeling is that somewhere in yoga philosophy there is probably much in common. The westernised form of yoga we usually see is probably like Christianity compared to Paleochristianity. No evidence for this point of view though. Thanks aaron.
 
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