You create your own reality and subjective truth ...

highmystica

highmystica

Jedi Master
I was wandering around online and came accross one of those truely daft sites - you know the kind - well, I'm pretty sure you do. Now before I had been introduced to looking at this subject in a new way courtesy of this site I would have been like - "Well, of course" and then wandered off to something else that may have (hopefully) offered me something meaningfull. I am of the opinion that we all indeed create our reality - to an extent at least, I can look at the course of my life and see that where I am now is a direct consequence of my actions, sure there have been a few things that were beyond my control that contributed, but all and all I think it is my actions that have determined my place more than anything else, to think otherwise seems to me to take ignoring my personal responsibility to a level quite beyond what I am capable of - and considering how irresponsible I am that really says something. Anyway, now when I see such things I look a bit more closely to see what they are really saying. Strange how it is that one can come to new realizations from reading bizarre stuff online, that is the inverse of their own mode of thinking. Such was the case with this warm fuzzy crystal twister paradise I wandered into today. I realized that they were taking a concept that to me requires action and responsibility and using it to teach inaction and irresponsibility. "Ohhhh - all you have to do it think warm fuzzies and your life will be filled such, gee - it all makes sense." Granted, I am certainly one who is prone to delving into the land of warm fuzzies from time to time - I can't be cynical all the time, but aside from using them to stabilize my own mindset I have to do something with them or at least try. No matter - what struck me as bizarre was that somebody could really take a simple idea that should be common sense and twist it into uncommon non-sense, and have a cult of "love-zombies" follow them around and give them money to teach them more non-sense. "Oh great enlightened master - grant us more wisdom so we can sleep in our euphoric love state perpetually." So sad, although it is nothing new - one can find examples of such in any of the worlds' faiths.
Another concept they take to bizarre places is subjective truth. I've been thinking about subjective truths a lot lately trying to break them apart - a bit of thinking with a hammer, and finally tossed all but one. The one that I'm left with is the one that most often gets reduced into "be your own truth" in new age propaganda. Okay, to me it sounds like a grand idea - a little bit of both "know yourself", and "what is the message you share with the world" all combined into an elegant little phrase, and one that implies action at that. Perhaps it is that it gets changed into something different in my mind, but since it is altered in my mind then it really is subjective by definition. Regardless, that is another part to the puzzle and that is language like any art is abstract and subjective by its nature - the meanings and connotations that exist for my personal form of english differ from everyone else's and though I may think I understand what someone else is really saying, and I may be correct - I can't be completely sure (at first at least) - so at best it is an approximation. I am certain though, outside of all this human madness absolute truth is beyond subjectivity. However, the instant it touches human thought and then travels the paths of human language it is entangled in human subjectivity. And that last sentance perhaps is the seed whatever wisdom there is to be found in the phrase "subjective truth". All that being said, I suppose that it depends where a given site takes the ideas they present, and if they offer anything that is usefull. Sure, the site I wandered onto today was - shall we say lacking (being polite), it doesn't mean they all are if you look deeply enough. There is another aspect of "subjective truth" that is perhaps relavent and I'm not sure how to explain it. There is this persian poet I discovered years ago named Rumi, whom I know there are people here that are already familiar with and well, aside from a handfull of poems I have always loved his writtings and indeed he has held the title of my favorite poet for a long time ... Earlier today I cracked open one of my Rumi books to find a poem and have been flipping through it off and on throughout the day, and there on the pages I can read and feel "subjective truth", and can't explain it better than that - but I think what his writting presents to me is that perhaps for all my thinking about subjectivity the last month is that maybe just maybe there is a place for subjectivity in the development of the soul ... Of course it could be that it isn't so much "subjective truth" that he presents me with but something else, an idea that I simply can't explain except to reduce it into a pathetic approximation of what I feel ... not sure ... thoughts?
 
No I didn't, perhaps you might explain what you mean. I think of humans in general as being more like gardens if you catch my drift, and though I may have a seed or two that have grown into maddness, which I'm aware of, without a doubt, that leaves the question - what to do about it? Shall I what - hack these trees down before I understand the fruits they offer? For if all there is are lessons, I would much rather seek to understand the lessons presented than to do them again and again. Still, I must admit, I wonder what you were really getting at johnno ...
 
I'm not Johnno but I think I know what he is getting at.

If you are familiar with the "4th Way" work as espoused by Gurdjieff, Mouravieff and others, you would realize that nothing happens consciously to you UNTIL you begin to work on yourself in the 4th way.

Until then, you are (as I am) just a mechanical reaction machine. You might THINK you are doing, but really things are just "happening" to you.

It is, so I think, the way of the world.

To STOP this, you must be able to begin to do the work thus forming a REAL consciousness and eventually, if you are able to, a REAL will.

Until then, you are just a machine (as I am).

Don
 
And there's that nice little list of books to read here, which are all selected to assist one in becoming aware of what Don and Johnno are talking about:
 
Sorry about taking so long to get back to the computer - I'm familiar with the fourth way writings - except for mouravieff. I do find some new gem or another everytime I look through them. My response to johnno was for him to say something more. Consider this, I for example want to be more than what I currently am, this implies a course of study and of work. This is a form of "doing" - it may not be of the higher magnitude presented by Gurdjieff - but it is the seed from which that will grow, it also implies something far more important, for it starts with the intention and that in itself is also the seed to really living intentionally. I realize that we cannot truely create until we can do (in the higher sense), and until then the only thing I can do (in the lower sense) is try and work on creating myself.
Beyond all that though my current thing is subjectivity, more so then when I posted this - I had a meeting to attend that required me to travel by ferry there and back and I took Rumi along for the ride, and I'm beginning to think that it isn't so much that the poets that move me do so because they are subjective or abstract, but rather they convey a truth that speaks directly to my heart and bypasses logic all together ...
 
Thought I'd let you "mill it around" for a bit, one sentence got you thinking....correct?

If you look at your first post, it is a big block almost in a stream of consciousness leading from one point to another, then another then another. There are no breaks which doesn't allow you...(or the reader)....enough time to grab a gasp of air. And this is how it is in life for pretty well everybody (myself included), on autopilot, shambling along through life.

If we take the garden analogy that you have given, we would mainly be deepest darkest jungle. Allowing impressions to land like seeds, sprout and grow willy, nilly. And from these gathered impressions and nature gione wild, we end up with a patch of "garden" that is pretty well untamed, difficult to work on and in some cases unpenetrable.

If however we take a true garden example it involves first using what features and trees are usable. Then planning the landscaping, sorting borders, pathways, planning the structure and plant layout that sort of deal. Then from those plans we set about building the garden and once it is built, we maintain it (which includes removing those weeds you mention).

So perhaps you could go back to your first post and edit it into a rough sort of garden?

Now regarding Rumi, is it touching your "heart" or that hidden part of yourself, the part of you that has true objective conscience?
 
Thanks Johnno, I appreciate the response. I didn't feel that editing it into something easier to read was exactly good form, if I did and people got to this part it would just confuse them. I did add a return though to break it into the two main parts.

I liked what you said about the jungle and allowing impressions to grow all willy nilly. Though I would offer that the mass of humanity is closer to a swamp. In working on my personal garden I'm cleared out as much of the maddness as I could, and it is much more open but it is in a lot of ways sterile, maybe empty would be a better word. So, that leaves me the task of trying to make it vibrant, lush and full of life - sort of a pleasant jungle, that is complete and self maintaining.

Anyway getting back to Rumi - I honestly can't say. Since the quality of his writing affects me internally that makes it subjective. Great, now that's all very confusing, it touches the part of me that has an objective conscience by a subjective pathway. I think that it maybe the case that his writtings go beyond being subjective or objective. But I'm really not sure ...
 
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