Introduction to Beelzebub's Tales 'Deconstruction'/Study Group

RflctnOfU

Jedi Council Member
Hello everyone. My intention with this project is to attempt to bring to light the depth of material embedded within the text of this book. I hope that collectively we can embody the concept of 'one hand washes the other' in regards to understanding this masterpiece. Initially, I will begin with chapter 4, but eventually, will end up going chronologically (with the longer chapters being broken up into sections - using this syllabus I found for study group purposes here _http://www.gurdjieff.org/syllabus.htm).

G was reported to have said about his book, in regards to 'unlocking it's secrets' "All of the keys are there. But they are nowhere near the doors". These keys, as suggested by Orage and others who worked with him in bringing this book to birth, are to be discovered 'by intuition'. There are quite explicit instructions in BT's itself, in the Chapter "Art", on 'sniffing out' the keys to doorways nowhere nearby, in the tale about Legominism.

All that being said, I would strongly caution you against delving into the 'deconstruction' without having made the effort to read the book through at least once. This caution isn't a proscription, but I don't wish anyone's understanding 'diluted' by my 'hunches', which may turn out to be bobagem.

Happy 'Sniffing' :)

Kris

edit: This text is about psychology/inner world. So keep this in mind while studying the Tales.
 
Beelzebub's Tales 'Deconstruction'/Study Group -- Chapter 4 - The Law of Falling

Before reading this thread, please take the time to read the intro thread here.

As the text of this chapter is so short, I will be including it in this thread interspersed with comments, thoughts, hunches, etc.. I will also be including the last couple of paragraphs of Ch 3 for context.

(chapter 3)[...]"You, your Right Reverence, have condescended to remark very justly that the former ships were very inconvenient and cumbersome.
"Yes, they were then, indeed, very complicated and cumbersome. I too remember them very well. There is an enormous difference between the ships of that time and the ships now.
"In our youth all such ships both for intersystem and for interplanetary communication were still run on the cosmic substance ' Elekilpomagtistzen', which is a totality consisting of two separate parts of the omnipresent Okidanokh.
What exactly are 'ships'?? What is 'intersystem and interplanetary communication'?? What is a 'planet'??
"And it was to obtain this totality that just those numerous materials were necessary which the former ships had to carry.
"But these ships did not remain in use long after you flew from these parts, having soon thereafter been replaced by ships of the system of Saint Venoma."

Chapter 4 - The Law of Falling

The captain continued:
"This happened in the year 185, by objective time calculation.
"Sain Venoma had been taken for his merits from the planet 'Soort' to the holy planet 'Purgatory', where, after he had familiarized himself with his new surroundings and new duties, he gave all his free time to his favorite work.
Note: this is the first mention in the book of the holy planet 'Purgatory', and the chapter under that name, G considered the 'heart' of the book.
"And his favorite work was to seek what new phenomena could be found in various combinations of already existing, law-conformable phenomena.
"And sometime later, in the course of these occupations, this Saint Venoma first constated in cosmic laws what later became a famouse discovery, and this discovery he first called the 'Law of Falling.'
"This cosmic law which he then discovered, St. Venoma himself formulated thus:
"'Everything existing in the World falls to the bottom. And the bottom for any part of the Universe is its nearest "stability", and this said "stability" is the place or the point upon which all the lines of force arriving from all directions converge.
"'The centers of all the suns and of all the planets of our Universe are just such points of "stability." They are the lowest points of those regions of space upon which forces from all directions of the given part of the Univers definitely tend and where they are concentrated. In these points there is also concentrated the equilibrium which enables suns and planets to maintain their position.'
In the above, I can, with conviction, state that meaning of the 'points of stability' are the habits of our personalities - G went through this with his Russian pupils, recounted in ISOTM, in terms of Postures, Attitudes, and Thought Patterns...all habitual. And the "Stop!!" excercise which allowed students to observe thier inner world 'dropped in space' (as follows)
"In this formulation of his, Saint Venoma said further that everything when dropped into space, wherever it may be, tends to fall on one or another sun or on one or another planet, according to which sun or planet the given part of space belongs to, where the object is dropped, each sun or planet being for the given sphere the 'stability' or bottom.
This is a very clear indication of why it is so difficult to do the Work...'falling into old ways'. Also, any stories later in the book about cosmology, when planets are mentioned, aside from the narrative, it is also describing the collection of 'postures, attitudes, and thought patterns' associated with the said 'planet'.
"Starting from this, Saint Venoma reasoned in his further researches as follows:
"'If this be so, may it not therefore be possible to employ this cosmic particularity for the locomotion we need between the spaces of the Universe?'
"And from then on, he worked in this direction.
"His further saintly labors showed that although in principle this was in general possible, yet it was impossible fully to employ for this purpose this 'Law of Falling' discovered by him. And it would be impossible owing solely to the atmospheres around most of the cosmic concentrations, which atmospheres would hinder the straight falling of the object dropped in space.
"Having constated this, Saint Venoma then deoted his whole attention to discovering some means of overcoming the said atmopheric resistance for ships constructed on the principle of Falling.
I think 'atmosphere' and 'cosmic concentrations', depending on context, refer to 'outer' inner worlds with which we come in contact in the Universe of humans, or possibly psychological states within ourselves we may not even be aware of.
"And after three 'Looniases' Saint Venoma did find such a possibility, and later on when the building of a suitable special construction had been completed under his direction, he proceeded to practical trials.
"This special construction had the appearance of a large enclosure, all the walls of which were made of a special material something like glass.
"Then to every side of that large encloasure were fitted things like 'shutters' of a material impervious to the rays of the cosmic substance 'Elekilpomagistzen,' and these shutters, although closely fitted to the walls of the said enclosure, could yet freely slide in every direction.
shutters=buffers??
"Within the enclosure was placed a special 'battery,' generating and giving this same substance 'Elekilpomagtistzen.'
I have often thought on this...what is the inner world equivalent of electromagnetism?? personality/essence?? Thought/emotion?? Any ideas on this would be helpful :)
"I myself, your Right Reverence, was present at the first trials made by Saint Venoma according to the principles he had discovered.
"The whole secret lay in this, that when the rays of 'Elekilpomagtistzen' were made to pass through this special glass, then in all the space they reached, everything usually composing the atmosphere itself of planets, such as 'air,' every kind of 'gas,' 'fog,' and so on, was destroyed. This part of space became indeed absolutely empty and had neither resistance nor pressure, so that, if even an infant-being pushed this enormous structure, it would move forward as easily as a feather.
This sounds like a former philosophical teaching, 'wearing down resistance' in other beings...or manipulation to 'get them to go where ever you like' or some such thing.
"To the outer side of this peculiar structure there were attached appliances similar to wings, which were set in motion by means of this same substance 'Elekilpomagtistzen,' aqnd served to give the impetus to move all this enormous construction in the required direction.
"The results orf these experiments having been approved and blessed by the Commissin of Inspection under the presidency of Archangel Adossia, the construction of a big ship bsed on these principles was begun.
"The ship was soon ready and commissioned for service. And in a short time, little by little, ships of this type came to be used exclusively, on all the lines of intersystem communication.
"Although later, your Right Reverence, the inconveniences of this system gradually became more and more appartent, nevertheless it continued to displace all the systems that had existed before.
"It cannot be gainsaid that although the ships constructed on this system were ideal in atmosphereless spaces, and moved there almost with the speed of the rays 'Etzikolnianakhnian' issuing from planets, yet wehn nearing some sun or planet it became real torture for the beings directing them, as a greal deal of complicated maneuvering was necessary.
"The need for this maneuvering was due to the same 'Law of Falling.'
"And this was because when the ship came into the medium of the atmosphere of some sun or planet which it had to pass, it immediately began to fall towards that sun or planet, and as I have alread intimated, very much care and considerable knowledge were needed to prevent the ship from falling out of its course.
"While the ships were passing near any sun or planet whatsoever, their speen of locomotion had somethimes to be reduced hundreds of times below their usual rate.
"It was particularly difficult to steer them in those spheres where there was a great aggregation of 'comets.'
What are comets inner world wise??
"That is why great demands were then made upon the beings who had to direct these ships, and they were prepared for these duties by beings of very high Reason.
"But in spite of the said drawbacks of the system of Saint Venoma, it gradually, as I have already said, displaced all the previous systems.
"And the ships of this system of Saint Venoma had already existed for twenty-three years when it was first rumored that the Angel Hariton had invented a new type of ship for intersystem and interplanetary communication."
Intersystem communication I think means 'dealing with others', so to speak, and interplanetary communication means 'dealing with self'.

I'd welcome additional insights or critique :)

Kris
 
Just found this website, which might be useful. It's got BT online, with an interlinked terms index: _http://ae.gurdjieff.org.gr/index.en50.htm
 
Approaching Infinity said:
Just found this website, which might be useful. It's got BT online, with an interlinked terms index: _http://ae.gurdjieff.org.gr/index.en50.htm

Very nice find. This will be very helpful and time saving :)

Thanks

Kris
 
Re: Beelzebub's Tales 'Deconstruction'/Study Group -- Chapter 4 - The Law of Falling

RflctnOfU said:
"Within the enclosure was placed a special 'battery,' generating and giving this same substance 'Elekilpomagtistzen.'
I have often thought on this...what is the inner world equivalent of electromagnetism?? personality/essence?? Thought/emotion?? Any ideas on this would be helpful :)

The way I see it, electromagnetism is one of the simplest expressions of behavior. And, if I try to come up with a general definition for behavior, I get something like this: creation and transfer of information, directed by will. Every behavior is a type of information statement, i.e., acting or expressing THIS possibility to the exclusion of all OTHER possibilities, just as a particular 5-letter word is a particular arrangement of letters to the exclusion of all other 5-letter combinations. So perhaps the inner world equivalent of EM is simply the expression of will, i.e., choice, action, creativity.

As for comets, perhaps they represent personal 'catastrophes,' inner shocks to the habitual 'orbits' and 'stabilities' of our planetary system. They 'shake things up' in a TPD sense (i.e., personality disintegration). A catastrophe like child abuse can deform development by establishing unhealthy habits of being.

I've got some questions, too. What is the significance of the older ships, no longer in use? Do they apply to childhood? Could 'atmospheres' have something to do with higher emotional/intellectual development? They allow 'ships' to travel with an added degree of freedom, i.e., an extra 'space' between stimulus and response, where the stimulus and inner response can be seen before the outer behavior is expressed?
 
Re: Beelzebub's Tales 'Deconstruction'/Study Group -- Chapter 4 - The Law of Falling

Approaching Infinity said:
RflctnOfU said:
"Within the enclosure was placed a special 'battery,' generating and giving this same substance 'Elekilpomagtistzen.'
I have often thought on this...what is the inner world equivalent of electromagnetism?? personality/essence?? Thought/emotion?? Any ideas on this would be helpful :)

The way I see it, electromagnetism is one of the simplest expressions of behavior. And, if I try to come up with a general definition for behavior, I get something like this: creation and transfer of information, directed by will. Every behavior is a type of information statement, i.e., acting or expressing THIS possibility to the exclusion of all OTHER possibilities, just as a particular 5-letter word is a particular arrangement of letters to the exclusion of all other 5-letter combinations. So perhaps the inner world equivalent of EM is simply the expression of will, i.e., choice, action, creativity.

That doesn't make sense in light of G saying that Will requires unification of the three centers, or have an Indivisible "I", and it is stated that Elekilpomagtistzen is a totality comprised of two independant parts of the Omnipresent Okidanokh.

As for comets, perhaps they represent personal 'catastrophes,' inner shocks to the habitual 'orbits' and 'stabilities' of our planetary system. They 'shake things up' in a TPD sense (i.e., personality disintegration). A catastrophe like child abuse can deform development by establishing unhealthy habits of being.

Thank you!!! This makes total sense to me.

I've got some questions, too. What is the significance of the older ships, no longer in use? Do they apply to childhood? Could 'atmospheres' have something to do with higher emotional/intellectual development? They allow 'ships' to travel with an added degree of freedom, i.e., an extra 'space' between stimulus and response, where the stimulus and inner response can be seen before the outer behavior is expressed?
Orage mentioned in his commentaries that the 'ships' are (paraphrasing) 'systems for navigating the world', or teachings. G gave us a ship. Regarding atmosphere's, I have a hunch that is related to the kesdjian body, as it is 'fed' through the air we breathe. This is what I was referring to when I said "'outer' inner world with which we come in contact".

Kris
 
Re: Beelzebub's Tales 'Deconstruction'/Study Group -- Chapter 4 - The Law of Falling

RflctnOfU said:
Approaching Infinity said:
The way I see it, electromagnetism is one of the simplest expressions of behavior. And, if I try to come up with a general definition for behavior, I get something like this: creation and transfer of information, directed by will. Every behavior is a type of information statement, i.e., acting or expressing THIS possibility to the exclusion of all OTHER possibilities, just as a particular 5-letter word is a particular arrangement of letters to the exclusion of all other 5-letter combinations. So perhaps the inner world equivalent of EM is simply the expression of will, i.e., choice, action, creativity.

That doesn't make sense in light of G saying that Will requires unification of the three centers, or have an Indivisible "I", and it is stated that Elekilpomagtistzen is a totality comprised of two independant parts of the Omnipresent Okidanokh.

I was thinking more in the sense of Schopenhauer's "World as Will", i.e., every action, from atomic to personal, is an expression of primordial will. On the lowest level, this is unconscious for the individuals in question (e.g., in the behavior of atoms). But even in mechanical beings without a true Will of their own, their own actions are still expressions of will in a general sense, e.g., the habits of their atoms, their cells, their genetics, their bodies, their socialization, etc. Kind of like a general 'active principle', without which no action would be possible in the first place. Not sure how this relates to the "two independent parts of Okidanokh" though.

Orage mentioned in his commentaries that the 'ships' are (paraphrasing) 'systems for navigating the world', or teachings. G gave us a ship.

OK, I can see how a ship-as-system might apply to the image of ships needing super-sensitive control on the part of the 'navigators' (i.e., teachers) in order to reach their target destination of planets without atmospheres (i.e., beings/personality aspects without 'higher bodies') in order to avoid crash landings. That's pretty clever. A system is like a method for communicating between disparate parts of oneself, and with others. Older ships or teachings were cumbersome and complicated (e.g., way of the fakir, monk, yogi?), but the new ones still require a lot of calibration. Still wondering if there might be a more general interpretation of ships, though... Guess we'll see as we go along!
 
Approaching Infinity said:
Just found this website, which might be useful. It's got BT online, with an interlinked terms index: _http://ae.gurdjieff.org.gr/index.en50.htm

Thanks AI. Nice find indeed. :thup:
 
Re: Beelzebub's Tales 'Deconstruction'/Study Group -- Chapter 4 - The Law of Falling

Orage mentioned in his commentaries that the 'ships' are (paraphrasing) 'systems for navigating the world', or teachings. G gave us a ship. Regarding atmosphere's, I have a hunch that is related to the kesdjian body, as it is 'fed' through the air we breathe. This is what I was referring to when I said "'outer' inner world with which we come in contact".

Interesting idea. It could even be broader than that: a ship as a system could just be the overall MO of any organism navigating its environment. The specially trained navigators needed to navigate around harsh atmospheres and comets using Saint Venoma's ships could be symbolic of some realities or worlds being so harsh only the most determined higher souls would be able to overcome the magnetic influences of mechanicalness to accomplish their proper aim/falling.

I know this is running a bit ahead, but what do you guys think of Saint Venoma's mechanism of dealing with atmosphere (using battery-released blending of the positive and negative force to obliterate atmosphere in the ship's way) versus the mechanism of Archangel Hariton's ship (in which there is no internal energy source, and the atmosphere itself is collected, heated to raise pressure, then expelled as a form of propulsion). That so many people on earth ended up as candidates for the insane asylum attempting to duplicate this method of perpetual motion could itself be a clue maybe related to the wide versus narrow path... just think of the STS/STO polarity difference between someone who sees the environment and his/her natural conditions as something to be destroyed or overcome, and someone who sees the environment as a critical learning tool, the diversity of which contributes to growth, instead of hindering it.

At the end of Chapter 4 Beelzebub mentions there was a period of 23 years between the commissioning of Saint Venoma's ships and the creation of Archangel Hariton's ships. If I remember correctly, 23 years is the age at which all humans become responsible adults (many mature before this date). That could be another clue pointing in this direction. :cool2:
 
I'm sure G. is rolling in his grave right now over the prospect that someone just translated all the intentionally obscure language and put it online for anyone to read. :lol:
 
whitecoast said:
I'm sure G. is rolling in his grave right now over the prospect that someone just translated all the intentionally obscure language and put it online for anyone to read. :lol:

G intended for us, 'Beelzebub's Grandson', the 'material' within the Tale's. He knew it wasn't for his contemporaries. Did you not read the caution?? Besides, I haven't just 'translated all the intentionally obscure language'. It seems rather snide of you. Or am I mistaken??

Kris
 
RflctnOfU said:
whitecoast said:
I'm sure G. is rolling in his grave right now over the prospect that someone just translated all the intentionally obscure language and put it online for anyone to read. :lol:

G intended for us, 'Beelzebub's Grandson', the 'material' within the Tale's. He knew it wasn't for his contemporaries. Did you not read the caution?? Besides, I haven't just 'translated all the intentionally obscure language'. It seems rather snide of you. Or am I mistaken??

I didn't get a snide impression at all from whitecoast's post, Kris. He was making a joke.
 
Re: Beelzebub's Tales 'Deconstruction'/Study Group -- Chapter 4 - The Law of Falling

whitecoast said:
The specially trained navigators needed to navigate around harsh atmospheres and comets using Saint Venoma's ships could be symbolic of some realities or worlds being so harsh only the most determined higher souls would be able to overcome the magnetic influences of mechanicalness to accomplish their proper aim/falling.

I know this is running a bit ahead, but what do you guys think of Saint Venoma's mechanism of dealing with atmosphere (using battery-released blending of the positive and negative force to obliterate atmosphere in the ship's way) versus the mechanism of Archangel Hariton's ship (in which there is no internal energy source, and the atmosphere itself is collected, heated to raise pressure, then expelled as a form of propulsion).

Yeah it sounds like mechanicalness literally set in. Kind of like Adamic effectively acting pre-Adamic. The battery sex center had the potential to be the reconciling for the affirming/denying of the other centers. For the pre-battery old ships would it be the two-part affirming/denying being powered via external materials also?
 
Approaching Infinity said:
RflctnOfU said:
whitecoast said:
I'm sure G. is rolling in his grave right now over the prospect that someone just translated all the intentionally obscure language and put it online for anyone to read. :lol:

G intended for us, 'Beelzebub's Grandson', the 'material' within the Tale's. He knew it wasn't for his contemporaries. Did you not read the caution?? Besides, I haven't just 'translated all the intentionally obscure language'. It seems rather snide of you. Or am I mistaken??

I didn't get a snide impression at all from whitecoast's post, Kris. He was making a joke.

And I think the joke was for your link which is very good by the way though it feels a little like cheating to read ahead via the linked terms but for this book I'll take all the cheats I can get.
 
Re: Beelzebub's Tales 'Deconstruction'/Study Group -- Chapter 4 - The Law of Falling

RflctnOfU said:
"I myself, your Right Reverence, was present at the first trials made by Saint Venoma according to the principles he had discovered.
"The whole secret lay in this, that when the rays of 'Elekilpomagtistzen' were made to pass through this special glass, then in all the space they reached, everything usually composing the atmosphere itself of planets, such as 'air,' every kind of 'gas,' 'fog,' and so on, was destroyed. This part of space became indeed absolutely empty and had neither resistance nor pressure, so that, if even an infant-being pushed this enormous structure, it would move forward as easily as a feather."

This sounds like a former philosophical teaching, 'wearing down resistance' in other beings...or manipulation to 'get them to go where ever you like' or some such thing.

Just some thoughts on this. The following is my interpretation of the above passage FWIW. I was thinking that what is being described in the above excerpt is not so much a manipulation of outside forces but more like a transformation of these forces through, perhaps, conscious inner struggle. It may be more like an inner transformation of our inner reactions to said outside forces into a higher state of Being, a state of higher potential, so as to not be so influenced by them. Then, perhaps, one is more able to be directed via a higher intelligence of some kind all being dependent on where ones line of intent is directed and what ones potential is.

In other words, if one can transform ones inner automatic reactions to these outside forces then this opens up a space where one can be gently directed by a higher intelligence. The line or arrow of intent, if maintained, would always maintain a connection between the beginning and end points of the destination (although not necessarily a perfect connection). What happens in between these points along the journey (such as in course corrections and changes in direction because of uncertainties, variables, etc) is determined by a creative higher intelligence working thru our own consciousness even though we may not be directly conscious of this creative force at work as we would be, for example, conscious of and already knowing how to get from point A to point B in the physical world by following an already existing map. In this case, however, the map is 'living' and creative. But at the same time our greater consciousness allows for the possibility of receiving information (along with being directed by the creative play of forces) regarding how to proceed at certain points along the journey.

The part about the empty space that had "neither resistance nor pressure" may apply to a potential state of being where one is in a more or less 'able' (or balanced?) state so as to be able to be subtly and intelligently directed along this line of intent (which maintains connection between the beginning and end points), a line of intent that has been firmly established by the entity(s) on the journey. The 'empty space' may be a virtual or non actual state of some kind where many possibilities are all simultaneously present (and real) at one level of reality but do not yet exist at another level of reality until any one of the many possibilities becomes actualized into existence..

To take this one step further, the rotating cycle (oscillation?) that makes a connection between the two above mentioned levels of reality may be in the electromagnetic fields of the entities (traveling on the journey) similar to the way a parallel plate capacitor charges from an internal electric field and the force of gravity may be the potential difference or 'weight' or tension between a higher (inner) and lower (external) world, that is, the world of greater potential/multiple possibilities and the lower world where there is only a singular/sequential actualization of these possibilities in 'time.' Then again I may be WAY off on this in my interpretation!
 

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