finding partners...

I think it is true that a break up from a good relationship is often easier than a breakup from a bad relationship, and that it is because there is not the same hurting and needing in a good relationship, as in a bad, but I think it is maybe not accurate to call bad relationships "romantic relationships" and not call the good ones romantic,

I think that the good relationships I've heard about are always the most romantic ...the story of Laura and Ark..........anyone find it unromantic???

In my experience not all things can be learned by theory, some have to be learned by practice, I'm not sure that one can learn to be STO by sitting by one self reading

Agreed. Or by posting theories on the internet typing away about the issue they are avoiding.

Do you mean this thread? I think it is good to network about these things. For some people it really causes them a lot of pain feeling lonely, and missing love, so I don't think it is a silly discussion

Click to expand...

Missing love means that you had it or a shade of it - it means you had experience with it. This is not what I am talking about. If someone has no life experience about said theory they will be very short sided and growth will be lopsided because the constant working of the intellectual center and "fake" feeding of emotional center. Remember knowledge and being have to be somewhat close to each other. We are the same in some aspects however different in others. It is important to know what works for you at your level of being. If one experiences something, is confused, has questions or wants to do research to prepare before an experience, has an interest in theory and wants to network about it thats great however to constantly use this forum to talk about theories one has no experience with and then try to come to conclusion year after year IMO does more harm for the self and others than good.

The conclusions will be missing an aspect (however a broken cock is right twice a day) and there will be no practicality in ones life no way to relate theory to the individual or give objective advice because they are using one center. They are halting their own growth because of the over working of intellectual center and IMO this is done to avoid something or because of something most likely trauma in one of the centers. They don't know what is good or not good for them. If someone is overly STS then thats where they are and thats how they will act realize it and protect yourself if someone is more towards STO ok great. Learn to see the difference and where you fit. Please remember life has many shades of gray and its tough to convey those shades in words hopefully people can read between the lines in what I am trying to say at the end of the day if you are saying the same thing year after year using different theories to try and prove a point or come to a conclusion of how things should be for you and others without any experience isn't something off? Life is fluid and things constantly change whats good for you might not be good for the other. Whats good for you now might not be good later on - thats called growth IMO and this will never be figured out using just theory alone.

I enjoy intellectual conversations however it would feel off to me to read theory after theory about playing the piano and then use these theories to come to conclusions of how it should be played and why this is wrong or this is right why this would be right or wrong for me without any experience. Its a feeling in my emotional center that this way of relating myself to the piano and the piano relating to me seems "fake" or "off" I would need both experience playing, the feel of the keys and intellectual knowledge and reflection of piano to properly learn. Is life not similar.

We have three centers its evident that using just one the intellectual will not produce optimal results or understanding of yourself. Once you understand yourself you will be able to realize whats good for you and whats not - you will be better able to have a healthy relationship with someone. Will its last forever no nothing does but the time spent will be healthier.

Menna said:

Miss.K said:

Menna said:

[quote author=Miss.K]
In my experience not all things can be learned by theory, some have to be learned by practice, I'm not sure that one can learn to be STO by sitting by one self reading

Click to expand...

Agreed. Or by posting theories on the internet typing away about the issue they are avoiding.

Click to expand...

Do you mean this thread? I think it is good to network about these things. For some people it really causes them a lot of pain feeling lonely, and missing love, so I don't think it is a silly discussion :)

Click to expand...

Missing love means that you had it or a shade of it - it means you had experience with it. This is not what I am talking about. If someone has no life experience about said theory they will be very short sided and growth will be lopsided because the constant working of the intellectual center and "fake" feeding of emotional center. Remember knowledge and being have to be somewhat close to each other. We are the same in some aspects however different in others. It is important to know what works for you at your level of being. If one experiences something, is confused, has questions or wants to do research to prepare before an experience, has an interest in theory and wants to network about it thats great however to constantly use this forum to talk about theories one has no experience with and then try to come to conclusion year after year IMO does more harm for the self and others than good.

The conclusions will be missing an aspect (however a broken cock is right twice a day) and there will be no practicality in ones life no way to relate theory to the individual or give objective advice because they are using one center. They are halting their own growth because of the over working of intellectual center and IMO this is done to avoid something or because of something most likely trauma in one of the centers. They don't know what is good or not good for them. If someone is overly STS then thats where they are and thats how they will act realize it and protect yourself if someone is more towards STO ok great. Learn to see the difference and where you fit. Please remember life has many shades of gray and its tough to convey those shades in words hopefully people can read between the lines in what I am trying to say at the end of the day if you are saying the same thing year after year using different theories to try and prove a point or come to a conclusion of how things should be for you and others without any experience isn't something off? Life is fluid and things constantly change whats good for you might not be good for the other. Whats good for you now might not be good later on - thats called growth IMO and this will never be figured out using just theory alone.

I enjoy intellectual conversations however it would feel off to me to read theory after theory about playing the piano and then use these theories to come to conclusions of how it should be played and why this is wrong or this is right why this would be right or wrong for me without any experience. Its a feeling in my emotional center that this way of relating myself to the piano and the piano relating to me seems "fake" or "off" I would need both experience playing, the feel of the keys and intellectual knowledge and reflection of piano to properly learn. Is life not similar.

We have three centers its evident that using just one the intellectual will not produce optimal results or understanding of yourself. Once you understand yourself you will be able to realize whats good for you and whats not - you will be better able to have a healthy relationship with someone. Will its last forever no nothing does but the time spent will be healthier.
[/quote]


Hi Menna,

I'm having a lot of trouble making sense of what you're trying to get across in the above post. I've read over it several times, and I've found that it is incoherent because your sentences don't really "flow" - logically leading from one to the next - it is not clear what your point, conclusion or intention is, nor is it on topic. As to the last, most of what you've written comes across as parroting Work and forum concepts and principles, because you haven't connected any of it the topic at large or Miss.K's response and question she asked.

It's curious that you initially said "type away about the issue they are avoiding", and then when asked further, appear to have done just that. I can't say for sure that that is the case, let alone what the issue might be if it was, but perhaps you might like to reread the post carefully while trying to remember what you were thinking and how you felt at the time. There is more detail that I, and perhaps others even more so, could expand on in about what I'm getting at here, though I think it would be better for you to try to see it yourself first, before asking for help (i.e. mirror), which ought to be a new thread.

Of course, this is all up to you and if you're up to it :)

Saieden said:

Menna said:

Miss.K said:

Menna said:

[quote author=Miss.K]
In my experience not all things can be learned by theory, some have to be learned by practice, I'm not sure that one can learn to be STO by sitting by one self reading

Click to expand...

Agreed. Or by posting theories on the internet typing away about the issue they are avoiding.

Click to expand...

Do you mean this thread? I think it is good to network about these things. For some people it really causes them a lot of pain feeling lonely, and missing love, so I don't think it is a silly discussion :)

Click to expand...

Missing love means that you had it or a shade of it - it means you had experience with it. This is not what I am talking about. If someone has no life experience about said theory they will be very short sided and growth will be lopsided because the constant working of the intellectual center and "fake" feeding of emotional center. Remember knowledge and being have to be somewhat close to each other. We are the same in some aspects however different in others. It is important to know what works for you at your level of being. If one experiences something, is confused, has questions or wants to do research to prepare before an experience, has an interest in theory and wants to network about it thats great however to constantly use this forum to talk about theories one has no experience with and then try to come to conclusion year after year IMO does more harm for the self and others than good.

The conclusions will be missing an aspect (however a broken cock is right twice a day) and there will be no practicality in ones life no way to relate theory to the individual or give objective advice because they are using one center. They are halting their own growth because of the over working of intellectual center and IMO this is done to avoid something or because of something most likely trauma in one of the centers. They don't know what is good or not good for them. If someone is overly STS then thats where they are and thats how they will act realize it and protect yourself if someone is more towards STO ok great. Learn to see the difference and where you fit. Please remember life has many shades of gray and its tough to convey those shades in words hopefully people can read between the lines in what I am trying to say at the end of the day if you are saying the same thing year after year using different theories to try and prove a point or come to a conclusion of how things should be for you and others without any experience isn't something off? Life is fluid and things constantly change whats good for you might not be good for the other. Whats good for you now might not be good later on - thats called growth IMO and this will never be figured out using just theory alone.

I enjoy intellectual conversations however it would feel off to me to read theory after theory about playing the piano and then use these theories to come to conclusions of how it should be played and why this is wrong or this is right why this would be right or wrong for me without any experience. Its a feeling in my emotional center that this way of relating myself to the piano and the piano relating to me seems "fake" or "off" I would need both experience playing, the feel of the keys and intellectual knowledge and reflection of piano to properly learn. Is life not similar.

We have three centers its evident that using just one the intellectual will not produce optimal results or understanding of yourself. Once you understand yourself you will be able to realize whats good for you and whats not - you will be better able to have a healthy relationship with someone. Will its last forever no nothing does but the time spent will be healthier.

Click to expand...

Hi Menna,

I'm having a lot of trouble making sense of what you're trying to get across in the above post. I've read over it several times, and I've found that it is incoherent because your sentences don't really "flow" - logically leading from one to the next - it is not clear what your point, conclusion or intention is, nor is it on topic. As to the last, most of what you've written comes across as parroting Work and forum concepts and principles, because you haven't connected any of it the topic at large or Miss.K's response and question she asked.

It's curious that you initially said "type away about the issue they are avoiding", and then when asked further, appear to have done just that. I can't say for sure that that is the case, let alone what the issue might be if it was, but perhaps you might like to reread the post carefully while trying to remember what you were thinking and how you felt at the time. There is more detail that I, and perhaps others even more so, could expand on in about what I'm getting at here, though I think it would be better for you to try to see it yourself first, before asking for help (i.e. mirror), which ought to be a new thread.

Of course, this is all up to you and if you're up to it :)
[/quote]

at the end of the day if you are saying the same thing year after year using different theories to try and prove a point or come to a conclusion of how things should be for you and others without any experience isn't something off?

Click to expand...

Are you talking about someone in particular when you say this? Or just people in general? Or people on the forum? It wasn't clear and your post seemed a little vague rather like your post before:

Agreed. Or by posting theories on the internet typing away about the issue they are avoiding.

Click to expand...

I got the impression here you were talking about someone in particular but I could be wrong.
I'm sorry but I can't read between the lines of what you are trying to say. My mind doesn't work on many levels and I need things spelt out to me sometimes. Perhaps you could elaborate for those of us who need a little extra explanation?

In the finding partners thread there are quotes and theoretical talk from people that through other threads say they don't have partner/relationship experience. I don't think it's wise to overload theoretically about a topic without experience because the advice given and ones growth will have part(s) missing. It's not good for ones being to overload the intellect without experiences that touch the emotional center. Not only does your intellect become smarter your emotional center does as well is what I am saying and this will not be achieved through theory/intellect alone.

My first sentence in my last post addressed Miss K response to me.

Menna said:

In the finding partners thread there are quotes and theoretical talk from people that through other threads say they don't have partner/relationship experience. I don't think it's wise to overload theoretically about a topic without experience because the advice given and ones growth will have part(s) missing. It's not good for ones being to overload the intellect without experience that touches the emotional center. Not only does your intellect become smarter your emotional center does as well is what I'm saying.

Click to expand...

Overall, I agree with you that over-emphasis on the theoretical side of any topic, without some kind of emotional experience can cause an individual's development to stagnate. That said, it doesn't mean that discussing these things is only focusing on the intellectual side. Not having the experience of being in romantic relationships is also an emotional experience too, and ultimately, just a different lesson. There's a whole range of both positive and negative emotional experience in that, such as the feeling of "missing out" on something that appears to make everyone else who has it happy, feeling unworthy of the affection of another, downright loneliness, the appreciation for friends and family when in need of support, and learning the need for self-compassion (which is very easily overlooked if you're in a relationship, especially a codependent one).

From what you're saying, it sounds to me like you yourself are over-intellectualizing it by being too rigid with applying Work concepts to the topic, which is resulting in black-and-white thinking. What really worries me about it though, is that it feels like there's you're making a subtle implication (possibly subconscious on your part) that it's not possible for someone to develop with respect to relationships if they don't actually have one at some point. This kind of idea defeats one of the major reasons for doing the Work in the first place, that being to accelerate our learning and growth on a soul level with while doing our best to avoid the pitfalls and traps of doing it the "slow way" (unconsciously), and to boot, romantic relationships are probably the single most trap-ridden aspects of our human lives in this respect.

My first sentence in my last post addressed Miss K

Click to expand...

Here's that sentence, along with Miss.K's reply again:

Do you mean this thread? I think it is good to network about these things. For some people it really causes them a lot of pain feeling lonely, and missing love, so I don't think it is a silly discussion

Click to expand...

Missing love means that you had it or a shade of it - it means you had experience with it. This is not what I am talking about.

Click to expand...

To me, that's not really addressing her. That's taking a single phrase ("missing love"), projecting your own interpretation ("Missing love means that you had it or a shade of it - it means you had experience with it.") and then dismissing it ("This is not what I am talking about.") with no explanation of what you are actually talking about in terms of love or anything connected to it. This is evident by what follows:

If someone has no life experience about said theory they will be very short sided and growth will be lopsided because the constant working of the intellectual center and "fake" feeding of emotional center. Remember..

Click to expand...

And the rest of that paragraph and the next is pretty much just a list of general Work principles with no mention of the original topic or why and how they might actually be applied in a practical way.

Hi Menna,

I'm not sure why you say one has to have a successful relationship in order to share thoughts on the subject of finding partners.
They might not be the ones who want to find a partner, and might not know how lonely one can be to be alone while trying to get ones centers to work correctly.
I would think it is a topic where anyone who wants to work on how to better their emotional state about the subject, as well as anyone who has experiences, thoughts, or feelings about it, good or bad, should share if they think they have something to say about it?

As to talking theoretically about something or quoting from experts. I would think that is the normal way to figure out things here on the forum. We can't talk about anything we don't know yet without talking theoretically I think, so by that logic we couldn't even talk about higher densities here.

I understand that one can intellectualize a subject, in a way that don't help the emotions,
but I think it can be very good and healing to talk/write/read about emotions, as if one of the horses have gotten it's leg tangled in the reins, the coach has to stop and untangle it before he can drive on to his desired destiny...I'm not sure how one should do that without using the intellect and help from others/experts if it's a bad tangle, to know which of the horses got tangled and how to untangle it?

I think that due to the work we do, a lot of people here are single. I think it can be hard to honestly rise above things that are human nature, like having a partner, a family, or children. Many times when one tries it becomes suppressing the emotions, and telling one self one is fine, as the aim is getting one self to agree with one self, but one is not going anywhere as the wagon don't move with all the horses in a big mess entangled in the reins.

And so I think it can be helpful for many to share about it.

Personally I think menna is aiming some of what he is saying towards me.

menna said:

If one experiences something, is confused, has questions or wants to do research to prepare before an experience, has an interest in theory and wants to network about it thats great however to constantly use this forum to talk about theories one has no experience with and then try to come to conclusion year after year IMO does more harm for the self and others than good.

Click to expand...

I'm the only one that I'm aware off who has been vocal about this stuff year after year with seemingly having made no progress i.e. never actually experiencing 'love' as menna put it. Menna was here before and he started a big thread acouple of years ago about being single, but since he has moved on to a newer experience. Personally, when referring to this topic, I think 'love' is the wrong word to use. Maybe simply saying never having experienced a romantic relationship.

To me, 'not experiencing' a romantic relationship is much of an 'emotional experience' than experiencing a romantic one: agreeing with saiedan. The emotions experienced are obviously different, but they are no less powerful and there are lessons learned, even with the seeming external appearance of having made no movement.

In fact, given the programming in society for everyone to be in a romantic relationship in order to achieve fulfillment & happiness, I would say not being in a romantic relationship and still maintaining your faculty of feeling, is even more powerful. It's more powerful because you will feel very powerful feelings, made even stronger as they are against the grain of societal programming. To maintain sanity, function normally and still have an emotional centre where you can relate to other people with empathy and compassion despite this situation further shows that one is not messed up or only diving in intellectual theory without emotions. This is not to say that 'not experiencing' romantic love is also evidence of ones inability to put themselves out there for the sake of experience chasing at a minimum just so that they can say they've overcome that threshold and it's now something they have done. That they have aligned themselves with societal programming and as a result have thus shown themselves to be normally functioning human beings who have balanced centres and can call from experience. There was an article in SOTT that said 'love' is meant to be easy and if it's not 'easy' you are doing it wrong. I can safely say, I have not dodged any experience where the possibility of a romantic relationship with another human being would fit the criteria of a 'mature relationship'. Any experiences that I have dodged either willingly or denied through the very reason I have inexperience, would have fallen into the 'immature relationship' category. According to that article, love is either a passing game or it's forever. It's either right or wrong. I don't need to 'experience' love as a passing game in order to experience 'love' as forever. A commentator on the article stated that

Sadly, most people would rather be in a bad relationship than in none.

Click to expand...

I hazard the guess is so that those people can say they have had the experience. Any experience is better than none at all. If it's there choice, it is and I accept that. I don't walk around feeling negatively about this people who get in and out of romantic relationships, it's their choice and I envy them, despite all the stuff you hear about being in a bad relationship. At least they have the society program behind them and that is one less battle for them to fight. Plus they aren't starved of touch which as we have recently learnt is devastating to humans.

As you said, the world isn't black and white and the range of experience that the universe can create is beyond our measure. However, maybe underlying the message that I read from menna is that maybe it's time to hush up. Do I think it's noise and harmful to talk about it? I think in the wider scheme of things such as global collapse, ptb deception, arrival of wave etc, it's small potatoes, but in individual human terms, this is some of the most powerful experience we can have. It doesn't matter if you are in Iraq, Syria, USA, Japan etc, the connections between people or lack off provide the fodder for individual learning beyond the wider issues that plague our society. War itself is as a result of connection between people, or lack off.

luke wilson said:

There was an article in SOTT that said 'love' is meant to be easy and if it's not 'easy' you are doing it wrong. I can safely say, I have not dodged any experience where the possibility of a romantic relationship with another human being would fit the criteria of a 'mature relationship'. Any experiences that I have dodged either willingly or denied through the very reason I have inexperience, would have fallen into the 'immature relationship' category. According to that article, love is either a passing game or it's forever. It's either right or wrong. I don't need to 'experience' love as a passing game in order to experience 'love' as forever. A commentator on the article stated that

Click to expand...

I agree with the immature/mature list given in the article and can identify with many of the immature behaviours myself, however what if those two people are committed to trying to develop the relationship into a mature one?

[quote author=[url=http://www.sott.net/article/295858-The-difference-between-a-mature-relationship-and-an-immature-relationship]http://www.sott.net/article/295858-The-difference-between-a-mature-relationship-and-an-immature-relationship[/url]Mature couples don't "fall in love," they step into it. Love isn't something you fall for; it's something you rise for.[/quote]

Can anyone enter a relationship fully mature, unless alot of work on yourself has been done? I think the bolded part explains what I'm trying to say, that many many relationships start off immature, because we're not all 'perfect' people able to love unconditionally and maturely, but that immature one can develop if you both work, but if you don't give it chance then how will you know...
I understand that there are many relationships that are simply not worth carrying on and too painful and destructive. I can only go from my personal experience, my relationship was and is very immature, however I'm trying to work on it , you know, and I'm glad that I didn't just walk away when things got tough...

Personally I don't think you should just bottle it all up Luke, it seems like it affects you alot. From what you're saying, you 'envy' people in relationships, but on the flip side have turned down opportunities for immature relationships.. but every relationship to my knowledge starts off immature! (I may have got the wrong idea) but what I took from what Menna said was (in a very simple format) why not try a relationship to learn about it? Is the umming and arring and theorising avoiding the issue as Menna said?

it doesn't mean that discussing these things is only focusing on the intellectual side.

Click to expand...

I am talking about when it does mean its only focusing on the intellectual side.

Not having the experience of being in romantic relationships is also an emotional experience too, and ultimately, just a different lesson

Click to expand...

There's a whole range of both positive and negative emotional experience in that, such as the feeling of "missing out" on something that appears to make everyone else who has it happy, feeling unworthy of the affection of another, downright loneliness, the appreciation for friends and family when in need of support, and learning the need for self-compassion (which is very easily overlooked if you're in a relationship, especially a codependent one).

Click to expand...

Ok. but its not an emotional experience with another person on a partner level. If this thread was about missing out on finding a partner then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

is that it feels like there's you're making a subtle implication (possibly subconscious on your part) that it's not possible for someone to develop with respect to relationships if they don't actually have one at some point.

Click to expand...

People can develop in all sorts of ways will it be positive will it be optimal for them? Why do we have three centers? Whats happens if you heavily only use one?

romantic relationships are probably the single most trap-ridden aspects of our human lives in this respect.

Click to expand...

They can be however if someone is doing "the work" throughout the relationship they will learn and see things about themselves, the other, life that they couldn't through just reading theory on relationship.

To me, that's not really addressing her. That's taking a single phrase ("missing love"), projecting your own interpretation ("Missing love means that you had it or a shade of it - it means you had experience with it.") and then dismissing it ("This is not what I am talking about.") with no explanation of what you are actually talking about in terms of love or anything connected to it. This is evident by what follows:

If someone has no life experience about said theory they will be very short sided and growth will be lopsided because the constant working of the intellectual center and "fake" feeding of emotional center. Remember..

And the rest of that paragraph and the next is pretty much just a list of general Work principles with no mention of the original topic or why and how they might actually be applied in a practical way.

Click to expand...

Your right my first sentence didn't address her whole question however there was another sentence that did If one experiences something, is confused, has questions or wants to do research to prepare before an experience, has an interest in theory and wants to network about it thats great I didn't mean to dismiss anything and what she was saying is not what I was talking about I don't know of another way to say that.

The piano example was an analogy that maybe one can relate to. I don't know you or others very well I can't put blanket work terms and relate them to people who I don't know and try and make applications this is why I gave that broad analogy where engaging all centers when playing the piano is more beneficial than aproching it using just one. This is why I am talking about a general theme of how heavy theorizing without experience about a subject is not the best way to go about growth or give advice. Its a theme that I think is important in the work/life.

I'm not sure why you say one has to have a successful relationship in order to share thoughts on the subject of finding partners.

Click to expand...

I havent exactly said that and I would agree with you I would be off base if I did say this. With partner experience it can be successful/unsuccessful or whatever this is subjective its the experience and reflection of experience using theory along with experience - this is what im talking about. Im not trying to take away anyones free speech im another poster on this forum like everyone else people can share their thoughts on whatever im just saying the ones that are heavy in theory without experience and continue on in this direction for years their growth most likely will not be optimal.

We can't talk about anything we don't know yet without talking theoretically I think, so by that logic we couldn't even talk about higher densities here.

Click to expand...

People can come from experience without theory and talk about a subject. I agree how could we talk about higher densities without theory because we can't experience them OBE aside. Again finding partners is something that can be experienced. If this thread was about densities I wouldn't be trying to get across the theme its important to have theory and experience. Thats really what im trying to convey and I feel like I have used too many words to do that it didnt have to be this drawn out im sorry.

I think that due to the work we do, a lot of people here are single. I think it can be hard to honestly rise above things that are human nature, like having a partner, a family, or children. Many times when one tries it becomes suppressing the emotions, and telling one self one is fine, as the aim is getting one self to agree with one self, but one is not going anywhere as the wagon don't move with all the horses in a big mess entangled in the reins.

Click to expand...

Ok. No one has to rise above anything the 4th way work is about being in life not above it. The C's constantly talk about this is one big school lessons lessons. I guess you can be home schooled but I think they mean in a classroom with people and interacting IMO. Suppressing the emotions and lying to oneself as opposed to having an experience with another with a partner wether it be sexually, friendship, activity based, teacher student based is important because things inside us get exposed then its up to us to see them.

I have used way to many words to get a across theory alone is not the best way to go about a subject that one can experience in real life. Theory +experience and sincere reflection will produce much better results and intern one will have better quality growth and be able to share that quality on the forum.

Hi Thorn,

I think you are very lucky to have a partner who is on the same path as you and you both are aligned in terms of your outlook. You are pretty much on equal ground and I wouldn't classify your relationship as immature. Sure you have problems and issues that you periodically have to work on when you do encounter them, but I think given where you are both coming from, you can easily approach these problems from a very mature stand-point and both can apply effort to reach a mutual conclusion. I think this is very sweet and endearing, for 2 people to be committed to each other.

Regarding your points about me, maybe you are right. I need to think about it. I need to change my approach to life somehow and put myself in a position where I can increase the number of opportunities that I can have to gain this experience everyone is talking about.

Next person that I cross paths with where there is a chance of anything really, a glimmer of light, I'm going to have to just take the plunge and see what happens.

What the hell am I saying!!! I'm cool riding through life solo!

I don't have much to say on this topic now, I processed all my feelings of loneliness and I'm actually ok with it is what I learnt. No regrets, no feeling of missing out, no desire to change. I'll wait for the flow of nature and won't be pushing for anything. When nature deems it's time, then that's when things will happen for me but nature hasn't made that call yet and I trust in the process nature has set me on.

Well, I have to admit here that I'm bothered by the "something missing" feeling from time to time. To me, a relationship is the only way to experience the flow of higher emotional impressions, to be able to accept someone as they are and be accepted as you are, to be able to share everything freely and feel truly connected with just one other person, to experience something that transcends the body and the mind to something higher, perhaps divine. That entire aspect of life, that deep emotional sense of belonging, doesn't exist for me, it is a sterile void. While I have a very good intellectual understanding of how the human soul group is connected, the emotional essence of it is lacking and unbalanced. I find the separateness to be stifling. It is very difficult for me to find anyone who understands exactly how I feel and would seek such a level of connectedness with me in my life. It probably requires a relatively high degree of purity to even attempt such a thing, maybe I'm not even there yet. But there is something deep inside that impels me to break this separateness and experience the greater light of being with others. I've had a couple of glimpses of this, but never experienced it fully. Whenever I've encountered someone who I know would understand this, they have a tendency to move away or something comes up. It makes you kind of numb after a while.

I don't think a full-blown partnership would be necessary to resolve this, the Platonic thing would work, but there is a lot of emotional intensity that has built up over the years and I honestly don't know if there is any reason to drag anyone else into my personal dilemma. Usually I'm pretty good at self observation, but on this whole issue of belonging/connectedness, I really can't tell where the programs end and where real, legitimate "needs" begin. My overall approach has trended more towards suppression(ie all such "needs" are programs), because I don't want to experience a "fall" from being enthralled with the illusions generated by the loneliness program. Maybe the "test" is to find someone else who is suffering from this and to give them my understanding and support and then in that way we would feel connected with each other... I don't know, I'm just speculating.

Luke Wilson said:

I think in the wider scheme of things such as global collapse, ptb deception, arrival of wave etc, it's small potatoes, but in individual human terms, this is some of the most powerful experience we can have. It doesn't matter if you are in Iraq, Syria, USA, Japan etc, the connections between people or lack off provide the fodder for individual learning beyond the wider issues that plague our society. War itself is as a result of connection between people, or lack off.

Click to expand...

I agree fully with this statement. Maybe things need to settle down a bit before relationships become a real possibility for most of us. It's probably a lot harder than usual to build workable relationships going into an apocalypse, and going through the tests and purifications required to survive it will probably make us better people more capable of carrying those higher emotional currents, if we make it. Maybe the universe does know what it's doing, although it's not easy to function at that level of awareness 100% of the time.

Neil said:

Well, I have to admit here that I'm bothered by the "something missing" feeling from time to time. To me, a relationship is the only way to experience the flow of higher emotional impressions, to be able to accept someone as they are and be accepted as you are, to be able to share everything freely and feel truly connected with just one other person, to experience something that transcends the body and the mind to something higher, perhaps divine. That entire aspect of life, that deep emotional sense of belonging, doesn't exist for me, it is a sterile void. While I have a very good intellectual understanding of how the human soul group is connected, the emotional essence of it is lacking and unbalanced. I find the separateness to be stifling. It is very difficult for me to find anyone who understands exactly how I feel and would seek such a level of connectedness with me in my life. It probably requires a relatively high degree of purity to even attempt such a thing, maybe I'm not even there yet. But there is something deep inside that impels me to break this separateness and experience the greater light of being with others. I've had a couple of glimpses of this, but never experienced it fully. Whenever I've encountered someone who I know would understand this, they have a tendency to move away or something comes up. It makes you kind of numb after a while.

I don't think a full-blown partnership would be necessary to resolve this, the Platonic thing would work, but there is a lot of emotional intensity that has built up over the years and I honestly don't know if there is any reason to drag anyone else into my personal dilemma. Usually I'm pretty good at self observation, but on this whole issue of belonging/connectedness, I really can't tell where the programs end and where real, legitimate "needs" begin. My overall approach has trended more towards suppression(ie all such "needs" are programs), because I don't want to experience a "fall" from being enthralled with the illusions generated by the loneliness program. Maybe the "test" is to find someone else who is suffering from this and to give them my understanding and support and then in that way we would feel connected with each other... I don't know, I'm just speculating.

Luke Wilson said:

I think in the wider scheme of things such as global collapse, ptb deception, arrival of wave etc, it's small potatoes, but in individual human terms, this is some of the most powerful experience we can have. It doesn't matter if you are in Iraq, Syria, USA, Japan etc, the connections between people or lack off provide the fodder for individual learning beyond the wider issues that plague our society. War itself is as a result of connection between people, or lack off.

Click to expand...

I agree fully with this statement. Maybe things need to settle down a bit before relationships become a real possibility for most of us. It's probably a lot harder than usual to build workable relationships going into an apocalypse, and going through the tests and purifications required to survive it will probably make us better people more capable of carrying those higher emotional currents, if we make it. Maybe the universe does know what it's doing, although it's not easy to function at that level of awareness 100% of the time.

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing, I can recognize many things, though I have lived most of my life since I was young in a few long term relationships until 6 years ago when I left the last relationship and have been single since. I too think it can be very hard to see where programs end and legitimate needs begin, and have found myself at a time really feeling that hermit life with cat was very very nice and fruitful, and that I had more important things to do than laying looking deeply into some guys eyes and feel the bliss of love hormones. I was feeling stable emotionally, and had more energy to better myself in many ways, and so I started to do EE and have not done it since as the grief of missing real human love that surfaced after a couple of time was so profound that my bones were hurting (I know that the solution is to continue doing EE, but am not too brave when it comes to this, and have been waiting for a time where I had the energy to go through feeling full force how terribly my bones hurt from loneliness)

This remind me of a saying that a Buddhist interested person told me once "If you think you are enlightened, go spend 10 days with your family" (hehehe it's funny)

But I wanted to say in relation to the bold part that loneliness stinks as a (lonely) friend of mine says. Double meaning that it is really hard to be lonely, but also that it sticks to one like a bad smell, and other people can smell it and shy away from it, as if they don't want to get infected. This is why, if one wants to not stink, that doing something to get less lonely, like joining some group activity (like sports or whatever) can be very helpful, to get the stink away, so that one can smell better for potential close friends or partners.

Though I think that there are often similar feelings in partners (often we get attracted because we recognize something in each other) I think it is more likely that as long as one has unsolved mess on the inside, that one will attract a partner with a program that fits ones program. So in your case it might not be someone who is lonely and intelligent, but someone who had a very intelligent, but very depressed and lonely farther, that she's desperately trying to save, so that she's only attracted to men who are similar.
This can be both good and bad I think. Good because recreating situations is a way of solving them, and bad because it invites one with open arms to a feedback loop of mechanical suffering if one is not careful...

I would like to chime in and say that being in a relationship IMO is not the only way one can develop their emotional centre. So I think it's perfectly valid for someone to post year after year about relationship theory with no experience. They may have a positively flowering emotional side, able to maintain nurturing and loving relationships with good friends and family, all the while having never had a girl/boyfriend.
In the same sense someone could have had a hundred relationships and still have no valuable advice to give.
In some ways, being in a relationship can actually stunt the emotional centre too as jealousy and possessiveness over another person can easily step in and cloud judgements in a way that it never would in a friendship.
So my point is it's never black and white, I don't think I need experience to post about why I won't ever go bungee jumping, or about how I think the nerves beforehand would feel or how the rush would feel afterwards.

Hi Neil, I'd just like to say that taking the moment to acknowledge what it is you are actually experiencing, to feel that 'void' as it were, is a great accomplishment. Most people cant handle what it is they are feeling and therefore all sorts of circuits get messed up in their brain in order to stop them from feeling their reality.

What it is you want, I have to say is near impossible to get exclusively from a romantic relationship. A romantic relationship can fill this gap temporarily, but if everything else in your life were to remain the same, down the line, you'll find yourself staring down the same hole. A romantic relationship can and will fill it as during the honeymoon stage, your body will be flooded with so much chemicals that will make it appear all wounds from this thirst you have is quenched. However, once the novelty wears off and the chemical rush subsides, then you might find yourself having not moved at all which is the risk. You may then get caught up in trying to recapture that chemical rush to numb the underlying stuff by jumping from relationship to relationship.

I think the cure is building a network of decent relationships, from family, platonic friendships, acquaintances and a romantic relationship. I employ some dirty tricks. I keep myself busy and always willing to try new things. I do lots of physical stuff, some alone e.g. gym, others as part of a team, I'm in a local mixed gender team which means I get to interact with both males/females regularly, still have part of the network from university that id visit and plan getaways with, parents who I visit and spend weekends with, siblings who I talk to, FOTCM activity based stuff, networks that extend from random people who walk in/out of my life e.g. housemates and work colleagues from past and present. Last year I also took up some evening classes, took photography as a hobby, this year aiming to try some new things. Also attend social gatherings upon invitation etc. Add in there carving up time to read sott, watch movies, read the forum and there isn't much time for depression to germinate. I also carve up lazy time where you have nothing to do so as to process stuff. I find also sleeping healthily really helps regulate the internal systems.

I find if you are like a stagnant puddle of water, then dirt and murkiness will start to collect. You've got to try and create some flow but not too much as to never gave time to take note of your internal universe.