The mystery that is my emotional center

Hi, I want to ask those of you who are in touch with their emotional centers for some advice.

The emotional center within me seems only to be noticed at times of great emotional significance, and at that time I'm engulfed in the moment and can only reflect on it later.

Regular emotional states seem to be intellectualized and I think the emotion, instead of feeling it (and this is often) e.g. "that guy thinks he knows everything" or "I'm buddy now and I'm being bothered" instead of annoyance. I don't end up feeling like I experienced an emotion but thinking it.

Similarly the times I know I enjoyed a good meal or spending time with a friend or my wife, I am never aware of the emotion in me.

I'm not sure if the emotions are being repressed or ignored but even when I know I did experience the emotion I am unaware of it.

With my thoughts I know they are thoughts and I know feelings in my body and can be aware of them but the emotions and emotional center seems to be a complete mystery to me.

I have been looking for some exercises to create or direct emotions but whenever I am able to remember to try and connect with my emotions I don't feel anything strongly enough... Or I don't even know where to look.

I have been thinking about trying to arouse certain emotions purposefully for this by watching some feely clips on YouTube or movies that create a strong emotional feeling and try to experiment but I am a little uncertain if this is a good idea.

Does anyone else have any advice or has been through anything similar?

Hi Dracount,
This thread has a discussion on the feeling function which I think ties in directly to the emotional center in 4th Way literature.

In my opinion, it may be useful to distinguish between emotions, feeling function and affect.

Affect has a significant physiological component. Neuroscientists like Candace Pert have gone on to identify "the molecules of emotion" in various neurotransmitters that get secreted when we are experiencing emotions. When we are excited or primed for action, adrenaline can be a dominant factor. When we are "feeling" great, endorphins are being secreted. When we are stressed we have an abundance of cortisol. When we are awash in love and compassion, there can be a lot of oxytocin being secreted.

The feeling function as discussed in the thread linked above is a rational evaluating function which works on the context of the situation. It is different from thinking.

Emotion can be taken as a combination of the affect (physiological arousal part) and the feeling function (the rational evaluative part). Generally, we tend to recognize emotion only when there is a strong affect component. The true development of the emotional center is not related as much to the affect part but more to the development of the feeling function. OSIT.

Thanks for the link. There are a lot more nuances to the emotional center than I am aware of.

Be that as it may, I find myself unable to place a label to any of my feeling and intuitive centers - or at the very least be aware of them happening within me.

I have these imagined notions about what it means to have a developed emotional center and I am trying to bridge the gap between my imaginings and what is or perhaps should really be happening in me.

Many of the things spoken about in the linked thread are familiar to me: the intuition taking over and fantasizing about changing the world, being able to know and act best when and what is appropriate in relating to others, generating connections with others and doing things in the right way not necessarily the best way.

This is in sharp contrast to what I have been understanding about the development of the emotional center: being able to adjust and change ones emotions at will, being in full control and never experiencing any negative emotions such as fear, envy, greed, jealousy etc and at will bring in a permanent state of joy.

In my first post I was looking to try increase my awareness of positive and negative emotions so that i could be aware of them when they happen to me, as currently (at least I suspect) their subtlety takes me over and I am not even aware of their effect on me.

The thread linked to above did begin in the vain of tranquility and virtue, but the ideas I had in developing my emotional parts don't seem to even be in the same ballpark.

As someone who has invested in developing themselves, could you offer some advice or ideas as to where I should be spending my time in this? I am hoping for some practical exercises to accompany any theory.

Hi,

Quiet times by yourself while relaxed with no interruptions, enjoying every moment might help you in your area.

Let things flow,dont force or expect anything.

hopefully you have a nice day :)

Dracount said:

This is in sharp contrast to what I have been understanding about the development of the emotional center: being able to adjust and change ones emotions at will, being in full control and never experiencing any negative emotions such as fear, envy, greed, jealousy etc and at will bring in a permanent state of joy.

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Yes, that was my understanding too not that long ago. It is such a tempting ideal to aspire for - isn't it? Being in complete control over one's emotions, doing away with those bothersome negative emotions, basking in a permanent state of joy. Did you wonder where this image comes from?

The spirituality industry tries to sell this ideal hard and many of us buy into this idealized image. This image is present in slightly different forms not only in the new age marketplace but also in traditional practices. It is the prize of "enlightenment" - to be claimed by the elite in the spiritual world. Hagiographic accounts of lives of saints and sages of different traditions have kept the image alive in public imagination.

Why is this bad? We can argue that even if this ideal is too hard to achieve by most (if not all - the saint stories that we hear are not mostly not real, but doctored versions), it is worth aspiring for. We may not get to the stage of complete control but we can become better. It may work for some in becoming slightly better versions of their old selves. But mostly, an impractical ideal is harmful, at least that is the way I have come to see it. It is harmful because it keeps people from realizing their own potential - something that they could reach realistically if they focused their efforts in the right direction instead of chasing after something like this idealized image of perfection.

This image is pernicious precisely because it "almost" seems to work in many cases with years of hard dedicated discipline and practice. There are spiritual teachers who seem to be in complete control of all their emotions and instincts (I am not speaking of charlatans or predators here) until one finds out they are not so perfect. The common reaction in such cases of exposure is to say the teachers could be flawed, but the teaching or ideal is perfect. A proper psychologically informed viewpoint could however tell a different story.

In short, the devil lies in the details of what "controlling one's emotions" means to someone. "Never experiencing negative emotions" is possible only if one represses them. Repressing emotions leads to inevitable psychological consequences, which are not good either for oneself or for others who have to be in the receiving end of psychological projections and/or actual victimizing behavior. "Permanent state of joy" is a myth.

[quote author=Dracount]
In my first post I was looking to try increase my awareness of positive and negative emotions so that i could be aware of them when they happen to me, as currently (at least I suspect) their subtlety takes me over and I am not even aware of their effect on me.

The thread linked to above did begin in the vain of tranquility and virtue, but the ideas I had in developing my emotional parts don't seem to even be in the same ballpark.

As someone who has invested in developing themselves, could you offer some advice or ideas as to where I should be spending my time in this? I am hoping for some practical exercises to accompany any theory.
[/quote]

The question you have asked is a "big" question. I am looking for answers myself.

The technique of self-observation practiced as much as possible in every life situation combined with acquiring knowledge of the psychology of the unconscious is the general framework I tend to follow.

For self-observation, rather than trying to wrack my brain to find a label for a possible emotion I may be feeling in the moment, I find it more productive to label the thoughts that arise along with being aware of body sensations. So, self observation means two things - being aware of thoughts and being aware of body sensations. These two components help in understanding how emotions practically work in us. The thought component pertains to how our emotions are processed in the mind. The body component pertains to how the emotions work through postures and tensions. This thread on Peter Levine's book "In An Unspoken Voice" has a discussion that you may find useful.

Regarding the thought component of self-observation, if we practice it for some time especially when we are disturbed, we will see there are some repetitive patterns which seem to come up in many different situations. These are our sticking points. A knowledge of psychology helps the process of understanding. As one example related to this topic, have a look at this thread on Aleta Edwards' "Fear of the Abyss" .

A general guideline of what could be happening as one develops the emotional center, as well as how the experience of common emotions change with development can be found in K Dabrowski's "Multilevelness of Emotional and Instinctive Functions" .

fwiw

obyvatel said:

For self-observation, rather than trying to wrack my brain to find a label for a possible emotion I may be feeling in the moment, I find it more productive to label the thoughts that arise along with being aware of body sensations. So, self observation means two things - being aware of thoughts and being aware of body sensations. These two components help in understanding how emotions practically work in us. The thought component pertains to how our emotions are processed in the mind. The body component pertains to how the emotions work through postures and tensions.

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Here I would just add that it is important to also be aware of what is happening outside of us that may be triggering the emotion. This is an important part of understanding what we are really feeling. If attention is not directed towards the external environment, and an attempt made to ascertain whether or not what we are feeling about the external event is truly reflective of what is ACTUALLY happening, then we can end up misdiagnosing the source of the emotion because we project it outwards onto reality when that is not what is actually happening.

At the same time, paying close attention to the way others are responding to us can give us an insight into what is going on inside us that we may not be aware of. If I think I am being 'normal', but I notice that other people are responding negatively to me, I can be fairly sure that there is something negative going on inside me that I am not fully aware of.

I suppose the answer to your question as to how to get in touch with your emotions is to decide to practice paying attention to them, which involves paying attention to your environment and the people in it, since it is through those people that you can also get a good idea of what you are feeling, both through your reactions to them and their reactions to you. Both require attention to be focused.

Perceval said:

obyvatel said:

For self-observation, rather than trying to wrack my brain to find a label for a possible emotion I may be feeling in the moment, I find it more productive to label the thoughts that arise along with being aware of body sensations. So, self observation means two things - being aware of thoughts and being aware of body sensations. These two components help in understanding how emotions practically work in us. The thought component pertains to how our emotions are processed in the mind. The body component pertains to how the emotions work through postures and tensions.

Click to expand...

Here I would just add that it is important to also be aware of what is happening outside of us that may be triggering the emotion. This is an important part of understanding what we are really feeling. If attention is not directed towards the external environment, and an attempt made to ascertain whether or not what we are feeling about the external event is truly reflective of what is ACTUALLY happening, then we can end up misdiagnosing the source of the emotion because we project it outwards onto reality when that is not what is actually happening.

At the same time, paying close attention to the way others are responding to us can give us an insight into what is going on inside us that we may not be aware of. If I think I am being 'normal', but I notice that other people are responding negatively to me, I can be fairly sure that there is something negative going on inside me that I am not fully aware of.

I suppose the answer to your question as to how to get in touch with your emotions is to decide to practice paying attention to them, which involves paying attention to your environment and the people in it, since it is through those people that you can also get a good idea of what you are feeling, both through your reactions to them and their reactions to you. Both require attention to be focused.

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So, this is self-remembering. Paying attention to the self, and at the same time, paying attention to what is happening outside, without forgetting any information flowed from any of that two directions which we are focusing on, at the expense of the other one. That's why it's called "self-remembering" probably.

obyvatel said:

Dracount said:

This is in sharp contrast to what I have been understanding about the development of the emotional center: being able to adjust and change ones emotions at will, being in full control and never experiencing any negative emotions such as fear, envy, greed, jealousy etc and at will bring in a permanent state of joy.

Click to expand...

Yes, that was my understanding too not that long ago. It is such a tempting ideal to aspire for - isn't it? Being in complete control over one's emotions, doing away with those bothersome negative emotions, basking in a permanent state of joy. Did you wonder where this image comes from?

The spirituality industry tries to sell this ideal hard and many of us buy into this idealized image. This image is present in slightly different forms not only in the new age marketplace but also in traditional practices. It is the prize of "enlightenment" - to be claimed by the elite in the spiritual world. Hagiographic accounts of lives of saints and sages of different traditions have kept the image alive in public imagination.

In short, the devil lies in the details of what "controlling one's emotions" means to someone. "Never experiencing negative emotions" is possible only if one represses them. Repressing emotions leads to inevitable psychological consequences, which are not good either for oneself or for others who have to be in the receiving end of psychological projections and/or actual victimizing behavior. "Permanent state of joy" is a myth.

Click to expand...

I think that it is necessary to differentiate here:

First of all, everyone has emotional wounding and repressed emotional charges that get triggered from time to time. In that sense, healing the wounding (which is a huge task) will bring a whole lot of freedom in any case. Then we are no longer controlled by the wounding which in too many cases is the main cause of why people feel miserable in their lives.

Then there are also authentic feelings, including joy, sadness, anger and fear. These natural feelings should not be confused with emotional charges. The natural feelings just flow through and cannot really be controlled.

However, it is also true that we can have a deeper sense of fulfillment and a deeper kind of joy - no matter what the feeling is on the surface. So while the natural feelings cannot be controlled, there is also a sweetness in them, whether it is a joyful feeling or a sad one. There is a deeper connection to the Higher Self.

Just to mirror Obytatel's advice, I highly recommend you start with your body first when you try and perceive emotions in yourself. So instead of thinking out the emotion that you claim to have in a certain situation, instead try to ACT as if you had that emotion. This is not a license to become impulsive and dis-inhibited. It's more of a personal exercise. The trouble with imagination is that it can only go so far, since it is solely an intellectual exercise. The emotions and body are a different sphere of activity, and in trying to use the mind to imagine how you're "supposed" to feel you are just using the same thinking (relying on the impartial mind) that got you into the problem to get you out of it! Does that make sense?

The conscious feeling function is made of the two components of what's called the mental theater: the representational and the meta-representational (or pre-rational and rational).

The representational (pre-rational) level are the base perceptions of data coming from outside and inside your body. This includes sense data, perception of our body's posture and tensions, internal sensing of our emotional state in our brain, heart, and digestive system, etc. Raw emotions and affects exist on this level, and are basically bundles of action potentials that we consciously or unconsciously engage in or suppress based on many factors. Let's say you drive in traffic and someone cuts you off. The experience of anger is accompanied by heightened energy in the fists, chest and mouth to assert yourself and fight the perceived insult or injury or injustice.

A lot of the time when some of these representations become so ingrained in us without being acted out or released, we become deaf to their existence within us, but the energy in the muscles and tensions still remains. Peter Levine's In an Unspoken Voice is an excellent introduction to this topic. As is Fear of the Abyss. In the latter, it becomes clear that many times our emotions become locked away by our conditioned fear of them. For example, if a child learns that it's wrong to be angry at her abusive parents, any situation arouses anger toward loved ones will be avoided like the plague in that child. This is why relaxation is important to help us expand our capacity to feel different emotions: it creates a safe environment where emotions or affects considered "off-limits" to us can be explored safely and re-integrated and expressed normally and healthily again. Eiriu Eolas is a breathing/meditation program designed to help you do this, and I highly recommend it.

The meta-representational system is the rational aspect of the emotional center that Jung spoke much about. It compares and categorizes and sorts feelings and emotions of the representational system, deciding on which to express and which to suppress or redirect based on all the factual and emotional data available to our conscious minds. An example of this function is in helping to reconcile contradictory emotions. Let's say a sibling has achieved a great milestone in his or her professional or personal life, and that causes both happiness and envy in you. A person with a developed emotional system will easily be able to evaluate and see that it's best to express the happiness emotion you feel, while suppressing the envy (or possibly even redirecting the envy to push you to accomplish more of your own personal goals).

The way to train this system is to gain as much knowledge of how your mind and emotions work, including how your emotions should properly work, but don't due to the unnatural and emotionally toxic environment in which our families and societies raised us. The recommended reading list contains sections dealing with cognitive science, as well as narcissism, which are helpful for both of those ends. Keeping a Journal and learning to observe yourself in your daily life, on top of all the reading, is essential to help you build an inventory of your own habits, thought patterns, and behaviors. The more knowledge you have of how your feeling function works, the more your conscious awareness can alter and optimize those processes to become more externally considerate and healthy.

Working on both the representational and meta-representational (or pre-rational and rational) levels of our emotional center is the best way to develop it. Hope that helps lay out an action plan to increasing your feeling. :)

whitecoast said:

[size=1em]Just to mirror Obytatel's advice, I highly recommend you start with your body first when you try and perceive emotions in yourself. So instead of thinking out the emotion that you claim to have in a certain situation, instead try to ACT as if you had that emotion. This is not a license to become impulsive and dis-inhibited. It's more of a personal exercise. The trouble with imagination is that it can only go so far, since it is solely an intellectual exercise. The emotions and body are a different sphere of activity, and in trying to use the mind to imagine how you're "supposed" to feel you are just using the same thinking (relying on the impartial mind) that got you into the problem to get you out of it! Does that make sense?

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I was just watching Peter Levine's video this morning, where he shows the exercise how to deal with anger. So, when you say act as if you have certain emotion, I think this video could be helpful when somebody wants to work on that. Having a safe environment where you can, as Levine say, play with emotions. But can you explain more about that acting? I'm trying to do that right now and I don't know. I try to be angry, but I can only act as I have tension in my body. I can imagine it, but nothing more.

I was in situation today where I was angry and I remembered that video. So, I did what he tells, I intentionally became more tense and than I released the tension (I couldn't do it slowly). Nothing big happened, but I had that sense like - hm, I can actually DO something about it, I have a choice!

But can you explain more about that acting? I'm trying to do that right now and I don't know. I try to be angry, but I can only act as I have tension in my body. I can imagine it, but nothing more.

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Maybe that wasn't good advice then. Levine explains much better what I was trying to get at.

whitecoast said:

[size=1em]Just to mirror Obytatel's advice, I highly recommend you start with your body first when you try and perceive emotions in yourself. So instead of thinking out the emotion that you claim to have in a certain situation, instead try to ACT as if you had that emotion. This is not a license to become impulsive and dis-inhibited. It's more of a personal exercise. The trouble with imagination is that it can only go so far, since it is solely an intellectual exercise. The emotions and body are a different sphere of activity, and in trying to use the mind to imagine how you're "supposed" to feel you are just using the same thinking (relying on the impartial mind) that got you into the problem to get you out of it! Does that make sense?

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Thanks I think I will give it a try. What I also suspect is happening is that some of my emotions can be more felt than I currently am feeling.

obyvatel said:

Did you wonder where this image comes from?

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Wow. No I never. I wonder why? I will definitely spend some time thinking on this.

Thanks for the links I will certainly check those out.

First off EE practice has helped me reserface and realize old trapped trauma from childhood/adolecense that was blocking and or disrupting my emotional center keeping me in the lower. I would not start off with the whole EE session more than once a week and if that is too much you can scale back to once every two weeks. The pipe breathing part helps put you in a relaxed state when experiencing these emotions and feeling overwellmed. You might want to write down how you feel before the pipe breathing and or full EE practice and then after this way you can see the different I's the contrast in yourself. Noticing and recognizing and accepting different "negative" or lower parts of ourselves is very positive and effective even if we just leave it at that and continue on with our life. I believe something inside us changes little by little just because we recognizes and accepting where we are. As laura says "you cant change the way you think with the way you think." it takes "time" if you have been acting and thinking a certain way based on lower emotional center for decades you cant expect a change over night or even over weeks but I believe change comes in months and years give yourself time.

This is in sharp contrast to what I have been understanding about the development of the emotional center: being able to adjust and change ones emotions at will, being in full control and never experiencing any negative emotions such as fear, envy, greed, jealousy etc and at will bring in a permanent state of joy.

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Exactly and this stage is needed to know the difference between negative and positive to find balance this is part of the process IMO you are recognizing progress congrats. This quoted above passage is also completely normal for our existance here as human beings. Most people go their whole life without being able to understand this and are never able to recognize that the difference between a higher and lower emotional center never recognize that there is actually a choice I believe this is where free will comes in. Just going by what you wrote you are "ahead of the game"

I believe that you know that progress has been made in you however with progress comes the realization of how much more progress is to be made if you so choose. Id also say that you are on the right path and IME slow progress is meaningful progress. Be gentle with yourself also read books recommended here on narcassism and codependency this will also help you discover some habits/emotions/feelings that come with being born into a family if you were not forced to be independent on your own very early on in life.

never experiencing any negative emotions such as fear, envy, greed, jealousy etc and at will bring in a permanent state of joy.

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Im not sure it works like that. I can only comment from my being as I am obviously not done with the work but from what I can suppose we will never be done being humans so I believe Its about accepting emotions that arise knowing the difference between them and then not let your actions/thinking centers being controlled by those emotions. However never feeling the quoted emotions above im not sure is possible we will always be STS here. IMO its ok to feel them and if you realize that you are feeling them then in that moment in those 1-3 seconds you can intellectualize that these emotions are misguided and not usefull. IMO that is great progress as 1-3 seconds of lower emotional center a few times throughout the week really wont have a negative affect on your life as the other times are spent acting/thinking from a wiser emotional/intellectual center. If you are beating yourself up over about a minute or two of lower emotion center emotions then you need to lower your expectations about life because this mentalitly will only further fuel your negative emotional state. There is a world for that last bolded the phrase means "always being overly negative" might be helpful to read about it if others can help jog my memory I forgot the exact phrase. Remember not only does are intelectual cetner learn and get smarter our emotion cetner does too.

If you have any more question like these please post if you feel comfortable I believe these type of questions benefit anyone who reads them that is open/ready.

"negative introjection" this is the Phrase I was looking for and in most people only fuels negativity it is important to be honest with the self but its a fine line between honesty and letting introjection take hold of your intellectual center and then have those excessive negative thoughts trickle down into your feelings located above the naval - solar plexus. Might want to read into this not saying you are doing this but just good to be able to identify it if it is happening in you or others. Helps you see yourself and life more objectively being able to recognize it. This can be handed down from generation to generation if no one puts in the work to stop the momentum. Even then one can pick up this - this type of energy from friends other people that time is spent with. Its amazing if one can stop or get a handle on it.