Australian government will stop benefit payments to those who are unvaccinated

[Keyhole]

The Australian government has announced that it intends to stop welfare payments to parents who refuse to vaccinate their children.

The "no jab, no pay" policy may cost parents more than A$11,000 a year per child in lost benefit payments.

Families with children not immunised have been able to receive childcare cash if they have a philosophical or religious objection to vaccines.

PM Tony Abbott said that the rules would soon be substantially tightened.

He said that there would only be a small number of religious and medical exceptions to the new rules - supported by the Labor opposition and due to come into effect in early 2016.

The prime minister refused to say in detail how much money the initiative would save.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-32274107

 

[MusicMan]

That's a lot of money to lose and I'm sure a lot of people will knuckle under so they don't lose their entitlements.

What worries me is that this will soon be extended to all other welfare payments: "Here, if you want to get this pension, you need to get all these vaccinations, or payments will stop".

In my opinion these measures are draconian, discriminatory, and un-necessary.

No doubt there will be a huge debate now on the pro's and con's of vaccination.
I seem to be the only one in my family who is against vaccination.
I've had a lot of vaccinations in my lifetime. Before I woke up.

The latest kerfuffle was over a child who contracted whooping cough and died.

 

[Arwenn]

It's getting worse and worse- the Australian Gov't seem to be ramping up the vaccination drive, and I have to wonder what the real motive behind it is.

Childcare rebates could be denied to anti-vaccination parents under new Federal Government laws

Parents who refuse to vaccinate their children will miss out on government benefits of up to $15,000 per child under a new measure announced by Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

Under current laws, families with children who are not immunised can still receive annual childcare rebates and other benefits if they have a personal, philosophical or religious objection. Mr Abbott said the rules would now be tightened to only allow a small number of religious and medical exceptions but he would not say how much the move was likely to save. "This is essentially a 'no jab, no pay' policy from this Government," Mr Abbott said. "It's a very important public health announcement, it's a very important measure to keep our children and our families as safe as possible."

Social Services Minister Scott Morrison said he only expected a very small number of families to be exempted from the Government's new policy. Mr Morrison said parents seeking a religious exception would need to be registered with their church or similar organisation. {I think being a member if FOTCM will be crucial in dodging these draconian measures}

"That's the only basis upon which you can have a religious exception, and there are no mainstream religions that have such objections registered so this would apply to a very, very small proportion of people," he said. "It'd be lucky to be in the thousands, if that."

"The choice made by families not to immunise their children is not supported by public policy or medical research, nor should such action be supported by taxpayers in the form of childcare payments," Mr Abbott added in a joint statement with Mr Morrison.

Safety of children paramount in public policy: Opposition

Under the policy which the coalition took to the last election, and which is supported by Labor, "conscientious objection" would no longer be allowed for parents who refuse to vaccinate their children but still want to receive child care payments and family tax benefit supplements.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said it was a sensible step. "We believe fundamentally in the science of vaccinations and we fundamentally believe that policy should be made by the best evidence and the best science," he said. "And we would say to the Liberal Government, we're pleased that you're agreeing with our position and yes we will cooperate to make sure that the safety of our children is what is paramount in public policy."

Jo Briskey from advocacy group Parenthood has also welcomed the move. "Well this will hopefully increase the rates of immunisation, which unfortunately are starting to fall behind the rates that are safe for our community," she said. "So we're hoping to see less parents choosing not to vaccinate their kids."

Australia has vaccination rates of over 90 per cent for children aged one to five years. But the Government said more than 39,000 children aged under seven were not vaccinated because of their parents' objections - an increase of more than 24,000 children over the past decade.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-12/parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate-to-miss-out-on-childcare-rebates/6386448

 

[trendsetter37]

I have no eloquent way of stating this but this kind of thing just makes me angry. Legislature of this sort laughs in the face of freedom of choice and is also patronizing. Especially when they take the stance of "It's for your own good", BS.

When there are strings attached to financial aid like this it feels more like a trap.

My 0.02 anyways.

 

[Keyhole]

I have no eloquent way of stating this but this kind of thing just makes me angry. Legislature of this sort laughs in the face of freedom of choice and is also patronizing. Especially when they take the stance of "It's for your own good", BS.

When there are strings attached d to financial aid like this it feels more like a trap.

My 0.02 anyways.

I had a similar reaction. It is completely and utterly totalitarian fascism! it makes me extremely angry. The conspiracy theories from films like 'Zeitgeist " and "Esoteric agenda" that I watched all those years ago seem to actually be coming to fruition and there's no getting out of it. We've gotta sit back and enjoy the ride as best we can. I wonder if the microchip will ever become as popular as was theorized as well, that was always a topic of concern for those guys.

It's getting worse and worse- the Australian Gov't seem to be ramping up the vaccination drive, and I have to wonder what the real motive behind it is.

Childcare rebates could be denied to anti-vaccination parents under new Federal Government laws

Parents who refuse to vaccinate their children will miss out on government benefits of up to $15,000 per child under a new measure announced by Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

Under current laws, families with children who are not immunised can still receive annual childcare rebates and other benefits if they have a personal, philosophical or religious objection. Mr Abbott said the rules would now be tightened to only allow a small number of religious and medical exceptions but he would not say how much the move was likely to save. "This is essentially a 'no jab, no pay' policy from this Government," Mr Abbott said. "It's a very important public health announcement, it's a very important measure to keep our children and our families as safe as possible."

Social Services Minister Scott Morrison said he only expected a very small number of families to be exempted from the Government's new policy. Mr Morrison said parents seeking a religious exception would need to be registered with their church or similar organisation. {I think being a member if FOTCM will be crucial in dodging these draconian measures}

I think for a certain amount of time, yeah religious status will be considered. But eventually I don't think religion will stop these guys sticking a needle into your arm. People actually believe the whole 'herd immunity' concept and can become aggressive and angry at the idea of people not getting vaccinated. I'd imagine that if/when there is a large - scale disease going round vaccination will be mandatory for everyone. I think our best bet then will be either to try hide from it, or just face it. A sad view of reality indeed

 

[loreta]

I have no eloquent way of stating this but this kind of thing just makes me angry. Legislature of this sort laughs in the face of freedom of choice and is also patronizing. Especially when they take the stance of "It's for your own good", BS.

When there are strings attached to financial aid like this it feels more like a trap.

My 0.02 anyways.

Me too Trendsetter, you can not imagine how angry I am! These dictatorial measures remember the Nazis, simply like that. Everyone in line, everyone obedient, everyone poisoned and whatever they wanted to put in the vaccines. This is the beginning. You don't want to follow the orders? no money, no food and you will die, faster then the obedient.

 

[Can Won]

Me three!
it took me a while to calm down after being alerted to this topic.
(I read it here...)
http://www.news24.com/World/News/Australia-denies-benefits-to-parents-who-wont-vaccinate-20150412

and going through the comments was an exercise in itself!
Yet a worthwhile one to see your reaction to some of them.

The pressure being put on parents to vaccinate their children at this time is bad enough, but this is a real low blow.

Of all the madness going on in the world, when it's children involved it really rattles my cage.

 

[Sol Logos]

Another scare campaign, and another way erode liberty. Because Australian's are all "she'll be right" and "no worries", it's a good testing ground for how to erode liberty in a Western country. In the US (at least traditionally), there's usually a lot more backlash.

An interesting article when something like this happened in California recently: _http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/03/10/california-whooping-cough-vaccine.aspx

Quote a part of it below:

Three Common Goals of Infectious Disease Scare Campaigns

Two years ago, a scare campaign was launched in the California and national media over people opting out of pertussis vaccines, falsely accusing them of causing the then-current whooping cough outbreak. Media campaigns designed to create fear about infectious disease are nothing new, of course. Many of them, the California whooping cough scare included, tend to be designed with the following goals in mind:

[list type=decimal]
[*] Emphasize disease risks and complications while ignoring vaccine risks and complications
[*]Place blame for disease cases, complications and deaths on the unvaccinated; and
[*]Attack the availability of religious and conscientious belief exemptions, which serve as informed consent protections in U.S. vaccine laws
[/list]

Point 3 is probably the main agenda of "the powers that believe themselves to be"

 

[Paragon]

Well, I shared this SOTT link on FB and a friend messaged me and disagreed with me. To her, it's set in stone, she will not see any other opposing viewpoint, in-fact, she actually said she would like to see the "anti-vaxxers" (ridiculous label, used as usual, to divide and conquer) 'shut down' and then amazingly, tried to link it to the same way that religious fundamentalists are bat crazy! Talk about hypocritical eh? Then she tried to use the herd immunity BS argument and how the same way smokers are bad for society, that these anti-vaxxers should be shut down because they are detrimental to society. How insane is this persons mind?

She had studied it for a while apparently and has seen both sides of the 'argument', but holds fast to the governments decision. I do admit that I do not have much knowledge about the whole thing, it was more that I was horrified about how fascist and immoral the decision was, and I was actually horrified that she would actually think that. Oh well, I had my doubts about her anyway, another authoritarian follower bites the dust

Just wanted to get that off my chest, I might research a bit more into it and counter her points, even if only so I can know for myself. What do you guys think? Waste of energy?

 

[Keyhole]

Well, I shared this SOTT link on FB and a friend messaged me and disagreed with me. To her, it's set in stone, she will not see any other opposing viewpoint, in-fact, she actually said she would like to see the "anti-vaxxers" (ridiculous label, used as usual, to divide and conquer) 'shut down' and then amazingly, tried to link it to the same way that religious fundamentalists are bat crazy! Talk about hypocritical eh? Then she tried to use the herd immunity BS argument and how the same way smokers are bad for society, that these anti-vaxxers should be shut down because they are detrimental to society. How insane is this persons mind?

She had studied it for a while apparently and has seen both sides of the 'argument', but holds fast to the governments decision. I do admit that I do not have much knowledge about the whole thing, it was more that I was horrified about how fascist and immoral the decision was, and I was actually horrified that she would actually think that. Oh well, I had my doubts about her anyway, another authoritarian follower bites the dust

Just wanted to get that off my chest, I might research a bit more into it and counter her points, even if only so I can know for myself. What do you guys think? Waste of energy?

I have recently been faced with one of these interactions aswell. I have spent much energy debating with this particular person over the subject of vaccines and have provided more than enough evidence, yet she just keeps coming back with the same old typical arguement, just like in your case, 'Herd immunity' etc. I chose to abandon ship in the end.

The advice I can give to you, Paragon, is to save the time, effort and energy. There is only so much information you can actually provide for someone. These types of people don't actually want to know the truth, and there's probably no amount of information that you can give that will ever take effect. The idea that their reality is based on lies is just too painful, and any information you offer that goes against their safe, warm, fuzzy world view will only be perceived as dangerous. Therefore your opening yourself up to attack and an excess energy drain. I say let her be... If she actually wanted to know, she would find her way

 

[Paragon]

Well, I shared this SOTT link on FB and a friend messaged me and disagreed with me. To her, it's set in stone, she will not see any other opposing viewpoint, in-fact, she actually said she would like to see the "anti-vaxxers" (ridiculous label, used as usual, to divide and conquer) 'shut down' and then amazingly, tried to link it to the same way that religious fundamentalists are bat crazy! Talk about hypocritical eh? Then she tried to use the herd immunity BS argument and how the same way smokers are bad for society, that these anti-vaxxers should be shut down because they are detrimental to society. How insane is this persons mind?

She had studied it for a while apparently and has seen both sides of the 'argument', but holds fast to the governments decision. I do admit that I do not have much knowledge about the whole thing, it was more that I was horrified about how fascist and immoral the decision was, and I was actually horrified that she would actually think that. Oh well, I had my doubts about her anyway, another authoritarian follower bites the dust

Just wanted to get that off my chest, I might research a bit more into it and counter her points, even if only so I can know for myself. What do you guys think? Waste of energy?

I have recently been faced with one of these interactions aswell. I have spent much energy debating with this particular person over the subject of vaccines and have provided more than enough evidence, yet she just keeps coming back with the same old typical arguement, just like in your case, 'Herd immunity' etc. I chose to abandon ship in the end.

The advice I can give to you, Paragon, is to save the time, effort and energy. There is only so much information you can actually provide for someone. These types of people don't actually want to know the truth, and there's probably no amount of information that you can give that will ever take effect. The idea that their reality is based on lies is just too painful, and any information you offer that goes against their safe, warm, fuzzy world view will only be perceived as dangerous. Therefore your opening yourself up to attack and an excess energy drain. I say let her be... If she actually wanted to know, she would find her way

Hey Keyhole,

Yeah, those are all thoughts I've had. I've dealt with people on FB in the past when, it just seems different this time. I will probably just agree to disagree and resolve to continue posting stuff from SOTT and not fear and be true to my inner nature, just like Cesar said!

I think the drain of energy mainly comes from a fear that sometimes I imagine that if I was in a situation when the SHTF around people in a group setting, and knowing that there are SO many authorititarian followers around, that I would need to be able to be a good 'persuader', to be able to reason with people, if I am stuck with them. That narrative plays many times because it's something that ignites a fire in me, to be able to 'protect' my mind and help others. The forum isn't always going to be here. I need to be able to quarantine my mind from pathological thought processes when it comes time to help others and myself.

I've read Altemeyer's "The Authoritarians", and Gustave Le Bon's "The Crowd" also, both dark and deeply depressing books that depict how it truly is out there. Really very excellent stuff to try and remember when one is out in the madness of current society!

 

[Sol Logos]

Me three!
it took me a while to calm down after being alerted to this topic.
(I read it here...)
http://www.news24.com/World/News/Australia-denies-benefits-to-parents-who-wont-vaccinate-20150412

and going through the comments was an exercise in itself!
Yet a worthwhile one to see your reaction to some of them.

The pressure being put on parents to vaccinate their children at this time is bad enough, but this is a real low blow.

Of all the madness going on in the world, when it's children involved it really rattles my cage.

I commented on that "news" website yesterday and it got deleted. I just commented on it now extended on what I wrote above here. I wonder if it will be deleted again? This is what I wrote:

Why evidence based medicine lacks a sound scientific base:
http://journal.publications.chestnet.org/article.aspx?articleid=1085845

How EBM may adversely affect public health directives:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0039606004007093

Health scares like this one tend to be designed with the following goals in mind:

1) Emphasise disease risks and complications while ignoring "government approved" treatments
2) Place blame for disease cases, complications and deaths on those not adhering to "government approved" treatments
and
3) Attack the availability of religious and conscientious belief exemptions, and laws that protect our autonomy and choice based on informed consent

The problem is many of us are in a state of fear and look to an authority like governments to keep us safe. We tend to do this despite current and historical evidence that demonstrates to us otherwise. In fact the opposite is mostly true, that while we allow ourselves to be authoritarian followers, we find ourselves to be in more unsafe situations, we expose ourselves to more danger and we have very little means to even protect ourselves.

 

[Konstantin]

I`ve noticed that there are growing number of parents who refuse vaccination for their kids and in the same time the PTB are making control and rules for vaccination more rigid with almost with no examtions .
I have a brother in Australia and he have 2 kids. They we re never vaccinated. Only the oldest one have 1 or 2 vaccines at the beginning. Second one not at all. They are good and healthy kids. Now with this i don't know how will they handle.
This is so unhuman. I thought that Australia is more open minded but the reality is that Australia is aligning more and more with western psychos and their agenda. The human rights are declining on daily basis. Its a real chaos indeed. :(

 

[Arwenn]

I`ve noticed that there are growing number of parents who refuse vaccination for their kids and in the same time the PTB are making control and rules for vaccination more rigid with almost with no examtions .
I have a brother in Australia and he have 2 kids. They we re never vaccinated. Only the oldest one have 1 or 2 vaccines at the beginning. Second one not at all. They are good and healthy kids. Now with this i don't know how will they handle.
This is so unhuman. I thought that Australia is more open minded but the reality is that Australia is aligning more and more with western psychos and their agenda. The human rights are declining on daily basis. Its a real chaos indeed. :(

As an Aussie, I can tell you that sadly our rights are slowly but surely being eroded. We are no longer an open-minded free society, and the psychopaths in power here are ensuring that we are totally aligned with the agenda of the elites.

 

[Arwenn]

I'm not quite sure how a religious objection would have to be applied for- I know we have something in out FOTCM paperwork which says that we as Fellowship members don't believe in vaccines. It might be something we need to look at for the Australian Chapter (&worldwide) as more draconian measures to jab (& chip?) everyone, are rolled out.

Christian Science church to be exempt from new vaccination laws; experts doubt surge of converts

Christian Science, Australia's only church allowed to refuse vaccination on religious grounds, will be unaffected by new Federal Government rules that will strip childcare and family benefits from those who boycott national vaccination programs. Anti-vaccinationists have turned to online forums to workshop ways of exploiting the exemption, which they see as a loophole in the new rules.

This week, Social Services Minister Scott Morrison refused to divulge the identity of the church through fear it would be inundated with new followers keen to find a path towards exemption. But one expert doubts there will be a sudden surge of converts to the faith. "I think it's highly unlikely that anybody would be joining Christian Science just in order to get an exemption from vaccination," Dr David Smith, from the University of Sydney's US Studies Centre, said.

"Christian Science is an entire system of religious beliefs that requires quite an intense personal commitment on behalf of the believers. "A lot of other non-vaccination communities in Australia would already have their own religious, secular or otherwise spiritual beliefs that just wouldn't be compatible with Christian Science."

Under government guidelines, parents and carers must produce a letter from a church leader stating they are a practising member of the organisation before they can be granted an official exemption.


But some health professionals are concerned the new rules may create more problems than they are worth.
"There's definitely going to be pressure on this particular exemption and people will be looking at how they can claim that exemption having not done so in the past and be located under that religious exemption category," associate professor Julie Leaske, from the University of Sydney's School of Public Health, said.
"I think the Government will be very busy trying to deal with this issue."

She anticipated there would only be a minor increase in vaccination rates.
"There'll be a small number of families who are significantly affected by the policy but it's very unlikely to meaningfully increase vaccination rates," she said. "It's certainly hoped that the estimated $50 million a year in savings will go towards reforms and measures that have a much more meaningful impact on vaccination rates."

Christian Science and 'healing by faith'

There were fewer than 1,400 Australians who identified themselves as Christian Scientists in the 2011 national census.mLike Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists belong to some of the smaller religious groups who have their origins in the United States. The influence they have wielded in national politics there has been a focus of Dr Smith's research.

There are probably no other religious groups who could claim that not getting vaccinated is actually a religious tendance, according to Dr Smith. "That is, that it is something that is written into religious scripture, it's a practice that's been followed for a long time, that it's something that a religious believer needs to do to be in good conscience," he said.

He added that healing by faith was one particular element Christian Scientists were fixated on. "They believed [it] was a lost element of Christianity that needed to be recovered," he said. Dr Smith said believers do not deny all forms of medical treatment.

"[They] especially use kind of routine forms of medical treatment such as dentistry, and they certainly wouldn't object going to hospital to heal broken bones or something like that," he said.
Dr Smith said Christian Science does vaccinate in countries where it is legally compulsory for them to do so.
"[But] it's not surprising that in an Australian context, where there is an option to present a conscientious objection, they would make that objection," he said. "And it is a very credible objection because Christian Science's opposition to all kinds of modern medical treatment is very well known and very well established."

Media representatives for the Christian Science church in Australia did not return the ABC's calls today.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-15/christian-scientists-exempt-from-new-vaccination-laws/6395480