Cryogenic Chamber Therapy / Cold Adaptation

[shijing]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

I just took a look and didn't see it,

Would this be the one? It's the third last in reply #23:

Just took my first cold shower. Sweet Jesus. But I felt really good once I got out. The most sensitive parts of my body were my head and my upper back, and it took some willpower to hold those under at first -- I also had to do the breathing that Mr. Scott mentioned, especially when I was rinsing my head and face for the first time before I started adjusting. I shivered mostly for the first few minutes afterward, and then it calmed down except for the occasional tremble. I'm looking forward to seeing what the difference will be when I try again tomorrow.

Oop, yep, that's it -- didn't look hard enough! It obviously captures the full flavor of my first experience, too :P Thanks for digging that up, Palinurus.

 

[Palinurus]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Thanks for digging that up, Palinurus.

Well, I didn't dig it up, Heaalih did that.

The reason I'm persistent with this, rests on the fact that you are a (Super)Moderator with the ability to reconstruct and rebuild that particular part of this thread once all posters in that missing section are definitely identified.

Have a look here how Gandalf did that with another thread that suffered from the forum breakdown:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26906.msg331183.html#msg331183 and two more posts right after that one.

Just a hint...

 

[shijing]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

The reason I'm persistent with this, rests on the fact that you are a (Super)Moderator with the ability to reconstruct and rebuild that particular part of this thread once all posters in that missing section are definitely identified.

Have a look here how Gandalf did that with another thread that suffered from the forum breakdown:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26906.msg331183.html#msg331183 and two more posts right after that one.

Just a hint...

Well, just keep in mind that we've all got a lot going on right now, and we have to prioritize. We certainly intend to get this straightened out as best as we can in due course, but the server crash came in the midst of a lot of other events (both on the forum and in real life) and we can only do one thing at a time. Thanks for sure, though, to Heaalih and everyone else who's helping to keep track of these missing posts in the meantime.

 

[Don Genaro]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Thanks all for sharing- thank you Psyche for the detailed write-up. I have been doing a little bit of experimenting over the last few days also. Right now the main option for me is a cold shower as I don't have a bath. I haven't dared to step straight into a cold shower yet. I start the showers fairly hot and reduce the temperature. I have found though that being careful is important as even without lowering the temperature to fully cold can make me almost dizzy and makes me tingle all over. I haven't gotten to the "looking forward to it" stage yet however. So I'm in no rush to have a bath in ice. But I definitely intend to continue with it. I've also been having a bigger breakfast and am very satisfied with that. About 250 gms of belly pork fried in lard and covered in butter afterwards along with some mushrooms and a fried egg. I usually either skip lunch or have something small and then another couple of belly pork burgers around 5 to 6 pm.
One thing that I've wondered about for years is how, as a boy, I could spend the afternoon in and out of the waters of the Atlantic in Ireland and yet I find it hard to dip my feet in the Mediterranean here in August! I guess this must have something to do with children not having a problem with leptin resistance. I'm also beginning to understand why my daughter has always complained that we wrap her up too warm at night; even in winter. She's always saying how she likes the cold.

 

[SethianSeth]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

I wonder if this may be the beginning of proper autophagy (something I am pretty sure I don't hit properly after reading Kruse's material)?

I think here is the post where he explained it the clearest:

http://jackkruse.com/the-quilthow-to-beat-agin/

Stem Cell depots. This one, I bet, will move up as I age. I think what we are learning now is nothing short of amazing. As autophagy and apoptosis take out cells as they age, get infected with vectors, eliminated by ROS, ALEs, AGEs, and many other things, they get replaced with new cells that are not differentiated as yet that are hiding in our stroma as “soldiers in waiting.” The real issue is we do not appear to have an unlimited supply of them. Science now is challenging that assertion and I hope they are right, because if they are, we all might start living a long time.

The key to this levee is time and context. My theory holds that if you deplete your depot too early in life, your lifespan is shortened tremendously. In fact, I will be less tactful: If you abuse your body from ages 0-40, I think it has greater effects than if you abuse your body from 40-80. The reason is simple: The less we need to replace early in life allows us to have many more as we age when the effects of time and cellular damage accumulate. This is why the major diseases in humans all get more common as we age. We no longer have the reserves we once had. If science proves that we can go back and create pluripotential cells and reengineer our stem cell depot then this risk certainly lessens. Right now this option does not exist. Damaging your depot includes poor dietary choices, trauma, cellular and emotional stress, and endurance exercise. We need to protect our stem cells at every age but we tend to lose most of them when we are young because we do not employ a levee strategy until we get to the back half of life.

Here is the concept of autophagy explained in a "non-Kruse" way :

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120120184528.htm

ScienceDaily (Jan. 20, 2012) — The health benefits of exercise on blood sugar metabolism may come from the body's ability to devour itself, UT Southwestern Medical Center researchers report in the journal Nature.

Autophagy is a process by which a cell responds to starvation and other stresses by degrading damaged or unneeded parts of itself to produce energy. It is sometimes called the cell's housekeeping pathway.

[...]

"Our finding that exercise fails to improve glucose metabolism in autophagy-deficient mice strongly suggests that autophagy is an important mechanism by which exercise protects against diabetes," said Dr. Levine. "It also raises the possibility that activation of autophagy may contribute to other health benefits of exercise, including protection against cancer, neurodegenerative diseases and aging.

Dr. Levine has made fundamental discoveries previously that are in large part credited for expanding the field of autophagy research. In 1999, she identified the first mammalian autophagy gene, beclin 1, and its link to the suppression of breast cancer, which marked the first discovery of an association between defects in an autophagy gene and a human disease.

She similarly is credited with demonstrating that autophagy functions in innate immunity -- protecting against lethal viral encephalitis -- as well as initially reporting that autophagy plays a role in lifespan extension, shown in a study of C. elegans worms.

Something I am still unclear about when it comes to "becoming cold adapted" is whether this is smart in the summer/spring time and how much cold immersion/exposure will be needed in order to sustain it through hot weather. Anybody have ideas about this?

I guess we'll find out. It seems to me that the point of doing cold adaptation is to restore and heal your body, which is increasingly more difficult in such a stressful and polluted environment.

Right now, I feel I can do iced water, but I just did 11 sessions of cryotherapy. I'm not sure 2 weeks down the road, especially if I didn't kept up with my cold showers...

A long-term protocol, at least with cold showers and cold immersion when there is time and one is more adapted, sounds interesting.

Thanks, Psyche, for the non-Kruse explanation of autophagy. That helped. It seems like something that would only be able to be discerned over a long period of body observation regarding immune support, etc, not after a week of experimenting. Besides, I realize that small weight fluctuations at night are pretty normal.

I think I may try to keep this up as long as possible. Kruse did a diligent 18 months. Don't know if I am that hardcore!

One thing I forgot to mention, that I would love to hear from the other men doing this experiment if they have experienced similar: Kruse talks about rising testosterone levels with cold adaptation. I have always thought that I produced less testosterone than average, both because I spent most of my life with a much more feminine shape (especially when I was a carbavore), low sex drive for someone my age, and almost no facial hair. However, this week my sex drive definitely seemed to increase to the point that I noticed and wondered if there was a connection. To be honest, if it is related to cold adaptation, it isn't my favorite symptom (although I realize that healthy testosterone levels are a positive thing). I like my mild sex drive...less distraction!

p.s. I want to support the thought that if we are experimenting at home, especially when getting to the phase of ice soaks, we should have someone at least present and aware of what we are doing. I have been informing my fiance when I do the cold soaks how long I intend to be in, and she peeks in every once in a while to make sure I am healthily shivering and not blue. I have been paying close attention to skin color. I am normally a quite pale olive skin tone, and I feel like I am in the safety zone when I step out with a nice pinkish glow. Still looking for a skin thermometer, though. Haven't had luck yet...

 

[theos]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

One thing I forgot to mention, that I would love to hear from the other men doing this experiment if they have experienced similar: Kruse talks about rising testosterone levels with cold adaptation. I have always thought that I produced less testosterone than average, both because I spent most of my life with a much more feminine shape (especially when I was a carbavore), low sex drive for someone my age, and almost no facial hair. However, this week my sex drive definitely seemed to increase to the point that I noticed and wondered if there was a connection. To be honest, if it is related to cold adaptation, it isn't my favorite symptom (although I realize that healthy testosterone levels are a positive thing). I like my mild sex drive...less distraction!

Many of the male commenters on Kruse's blog are noting a sharp increase in their libido and potency since starting the CT. Sorry, I guess that's the price you pay when working towards optimal. :P

 

[Laura]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Many of the male commenters on Kruse's blog are noting a sharp increase in their libido and potency since starting the CT. Sorry, I guess that's the price you pay when working towards optimal. :P

I guess the issue then is: what do you do with that additional energy?

 

[theos]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Many of the male commenters on Kruse's blog are noting a sharp increase in their libido and potency since starting the CT. Sorry, I guess that's the price you pay when working towards optimal. :P

I guess the issue then is: what do you do with that additional energy?

Channel it into some creative endeavor, help someone else with a project, become a better obyvatel, share some with a committed and willing partner. Just using the extra energy to satisfy physical urges is a waste.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Toronto? Really? I've been searching all over for a facility in Toronto but have come up short. I'd love it if you could share anything you've found, Shane :)

Ah sorry! It was the one in B.C. that I was looking at. I had scanned an article written by the Toronto Resort & Spa Examiner and thinking that it was promoting a Toronto spa, but in fact it was talking about the one in B.C.: _http://www.examiner.com/resort-spa-in-toronto/cryotherapy-seeking-wellness-extreme-cold

The resort:

http://www.sparklinghill.com/treat-yourself/wellness-treatments/cold-spa-110-degrees-celcius

Looks pretty nice though and the prices look pretty good at $300 for 10 treatments. I think this was the place that has already been discussed.

Yeah, I had seen that review from the Toronto Spa Examiner. I emailed the author to see if she knew of any cryotherapy centres in the Toronto area, but I haven't heard back yet. After doing a fairly extensive search I'm pretty certain none exist, but I certainly could have missed something.

It seems to me that this cryo-chamber therapy might become very "hot". It might be a good side-business to get into along with massage, nutritional counseling, EE, etc.

I had thought the same thing, especially considering there don't seem to be any facilities on the east side of the continent. I think one of these cryotherapy spas could do really well in Toronto, for instance, which has a big spa culture. But the initial investment seems pretty much insurmountable.

 

[Laura]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

It seems to me that this cryo-chamber therapy might become very "hot". It might be a good side-business to get into along with massage, nutritional counseling, EE, etc.

I had thought the same thing, especially considering there don't seem to be any facilities on the east side of the continent. I think one of these cryotherapy spas could do really well in Toronto, for instance, which has a big spa culture. But the initial investment seems pretty much insurmountable.

I would think that something like this might be a worthy venture for some networked forum members in the area, or even at a distance who would want to invest. Probably leasing the equipment to start with, finding a "home" for it in a spa complex that already exists. I believe that the lease agreements include the training for two technicians for conducting the treatments.

 

[neema]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

wow, thanks for this info guys. Although personally I hate cold showers, (just can't do it), I would be open to this type of therapy. I've actually been familiar with this somewhat as many pro athletes have promoted it over the recent years.

It seems to me that this cryo-chamber therapy might become very "hot". It might be a good side-business to get into along with massage, nutritional counseling, EE, etc.

I had thought the same thing, especially considering there don't seem to be any facilities on the east side of the continent. I think one of these cryotherapy spas could do really well in Toronto, for instance, which has a big spa culture. But the initial investment seems pretty much insurmountable.

I would think that something like this might be a worthy venture for some networked forum members in the area, or even at a distance who would want to invest. Probably leasing the equipment to start with, finding a "home" for it in a spa complex that already exists. I believe that the lease agreements include the training for two technicians for conducting the treatments.

yes this has a huge potential. definitely something I would invest in. I'm going to contact the company posted earlier on this thread and get some solid price info and maybe also the leasing info. Then I'm going to write a business plan.

Although I was thinking about opening one here in Vancouver/Chilliwack, I'm intrigued by the fact there is none in the Toronto area, especially if you say there is a big spa culture. Something to think about.

In general, been looking to open up some business for some time now and my gut tells me this is it.

 

[Tina]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

[quote author=Laura ]

I would think that something like this might be a worthy venture for some networked forum members in the area, or even at a distance who would want to invest. Probably leasing the equipment to start with, finding a "home" for it in a spa complex that already exists. I believe that the lease agreements include the training for two technicians for conducting the treatments.
[/quote]

I may be interested in investing in something like this in the US, east coast. I've just requested a franchise plan from USCryotherapy to gather more information. Will report back with information when I hear back from them. I haven't seen anything yet about leasing the equipment.

 

[anart]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

I may be interested in investing in something like this in the US, east coast. I've just requested a franchise plan from USCryotherapy to gather more information. Will report back with information when I hear back from them. I haven't seen anything yet about leasing the equipment.

I think UScryotherapy are the people who do the big rooms. You might want to check with - http://lifeofmillennium.com/ - the people who sell the individual units, which, to my understanding are more effective and more energy/space/cost efficient. Also, you may want to check in with Ennio since he is also looking into the possibilities for an east coast location.

 

[hiker]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Very interesting thread.

Where I live, winter swimming is quite popular. As the lakes freeze over during the winter, a hole can be kept open in the ice, where one can go in for a short swim. There are two "schools" on winter swimming, some people prefer to go to the sauna beforehand, other prefer going in the water "cold turkey". I've found the latter latter approach to suit me better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_swimming

I have been doing winter swimming for a few winters now. The feeling you have, after stepping out of the water and letting things settle a little, is simply great. One feels relaxed, "clear" and very much present in the moment.

I don't have a car and am not able to go swimming very often, perhaps once a week on average (although this winter has been bad -I have not been able go frequently). Those who have a possibility to go regularly, even daily, swear by it: there is a saying that "any ailments you have are left behind in the hole in the ice".

In the olden days, it was common to go from the sauna and roll in the snow to achieve the "cryotic effect"!

 

[Tina]

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

I may be interested in investing in something like this in the US, east coast. I've just requested a franchise plan from USCryotherapy to gather more information. Will report back with information when I hear back from them. I haven't seen anything yet about leasing the equipment.

I think UScryotherapy are the people who do the big rooms. You might want to check with - http://lifeofmillennium.com/ - the people who sell the individual units, which, to my understanding are more effective and more energy/space/cost efficient. Also, you may want to check in with Ennio since he is also looking into the possibilities for an east coast location.

Thanks for the info on USCryotherapy, I was just looking at the Millennium Ice website and have already left them a message. I'll contact Ennio and see what he's found out and if he's interested in any type of help.