I recently met an older guy - self professed atheist and anarchist at a local farmer's market who upon first meeting him, I was excited to meet someone who actually cared about social issues and would spend his time passionately discussing with a total stranger. So every time I go to the market now, I chat with him and have been dismayed to see what he actually believes. I brought up Putin and how much good he has done for his country and he called me a conspiracy theorist. When Walmart came up, he extolled the virtues of them being the first to carry organic cotton clothing (I really don't think they were first on this, but I don't know - I don't shop at Walmart), and how their distribution centres are state of the art and so wonderful (he used to be a trucker), and how their ships are so environmentally responsible. He talks about how people do all this unethical stuff, but then excuses one of the most unethical companies on the planet? He said we are lucky to have Obama in power in the US and seems to believe the mainstream media on tons of stuff. How is there such a disconnect between someone who believes in fair trade coffee and rights for workers and environmental responsibility? How can your eyes be open to some things and not others along the same vein? I just get lonely feeling like I'm the only one in this area who believes in truth.
Discernment on meeting new people
- Thread starter Meechel17
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luke wilson
The Living Force
Advice from experience: Always let the other person lead, only ever test e.g. by asking what they think of this or that. Never engage further if fundamental differences appear. You will waste time and valuable energy otherwise and will become the object of attack for your troubles. Unless you are ok being attacked and ridiculed, I would advice playing a role of conformity.
I agree with letting them lead, keep in mind that there are programs created for everyone to capture their attention and shape their perception all the while having them believe that they have the whole organic banana (pun intended), and these most usually work by hooking on some emotional program already present in themselves.
Practice a strategic approach of observation, and slowly they will let you in on where their beliefs are, and where their ideas are originated, there are countless combinations and configurations for a persons personality and to see where they come from requires some observation and examination.
We've all felt the lonely state where seeing all this truth makes us feel isolated from the world immediately around us, but remember every stick always has two ends, that perceived isolation also means inclusion into a different group of people who have expanded their awareness via truth.
After a while it's actually a fun experience to listen to people as human beings still under some form of ideology or belief, as it expands your observation capacity, only thing I would add is, always remember as Morpheus would put it "most of these people are so hopelessly dependent on that system, that they will fight to protect it" which to me speaks to consideration, to understand and see their current state will help you know what the right approach is when encountered with situations as such, and that will allow you to navigate them with ease.
You're not alone.
Alejo
Practice a strategic approach of observation, and slowly they will let you in on where their beliefs are, and where their ideas are originated, there are countless combinations and configurations for a persons personality and to see where they come from requires some observation and examination.
We've all felt the lonely state where seeing all this truth makes us feel isolated from the world immediately around us, but remember every stick always has two ends, that perceived isolation also means inclusion into a different group of people who have expanded their awareness via truth.
After a while it's actually a fun experience to listen to people as human beings still under some form of ideology or belief, as it expands your observation capacity, only thing I would add is, always remember as Morpheus would put it "most of these people are so hopelessly dependent on that system, that they will fight to protect it" which to me speaks to consideration, to understand and see their current state will help you know what the right approach is when encountered with situations as such, and that will allow you to navigate them with ease.
You're not alone.
Alejo
Thank you, Alejo and Luke Wilson, I totally appreciate your advice. It's spot on, and I do feel less alone. I felt like it was a kind of test for me to figure out. I didn't have time to talk to him at the market today, but he did make sure to tell me again that he disagrees with my stance on Putin and Palestine. I actually laughed at that one. Learning is fun!!
JonnyRadar
The Living Force
Alejo said:
Totally agree with this. I find it helpful to remember (when I can), that by and large most people, including us, have not truly chosen what we think or believe. It's been molded by parents, surroundings, circumstance, etc. So very often, it's not someone's fault that they can't see what you see. It's also helpful to stay humble and realize that you (nor I) see the whole truth, so we are all humans here in the same boat, searching for something. Be kind and compassionate to others and you may find that listening to them is a much smoother experience. Not "easier" per se, but smoother in the sense that you can avoid being caught up in your own opinions about what they're saying, and just be an open ear for them.
Everyone needs someone to listen to them, even if you think they're wrong, and even if they are actually wrong. Wait and be patient, perhaps at some point you will find yourself in a conversation with this person where you get a chance to drop some nuggets here and there. But also remember, not everyone is built to handle the truth about this world. Sometimes you will do more damage to someone by "ripping their sight open" than you had done if you had just left them alone.
As the C's say, all is lessons, and all means ALL. So perhaps this is not the lifetime for that person to discover certain things. Perhaps they have to come back again and again before it's possible. And if so, then that's their lesson plan.
My 2 cents... And for what it's worth, you're not alone (to echo Alejo)... you may be "alone" in your immediate surroundings, but there are others, namely here on the forum, who are on the same page with you. They are few and far between, yes, but they are out there.
Henchman 21
Jedi Master
One good way that I have found to discuss controversial issues with some one is to break the issue down into smaller sub points. Listen to what the other person is saying and try to find a common ground of agreement. From there it is easier to help someone grow little by little through engaging their own ability to think critically.
Try to avoid butting heads and always fall back onto the common ground that you hold if things start getting heated. The key is to let their brain do the work while maintaining an environment that they feel comfortable in. But also beware, if it gets ugly and you no longer think you are being helpful then you can always back out and do other things with your time. This of course is just my opinion I hope that it is helpful. I think I'm just elaborating a little bit on what Jonathan was saying.
Try to avoid butting heads and always fall back onto the common ground that you hold if things start getting heated. The key is to let their brain do the work while maintaining an environment that they feel comfortable in. But also beware, if it gets ugly and you no longer think you are being helpful then you can always back out and do other things with your time. This of course is just my opinion I hope that it is helpful. I think I'm just elaborating a little bit on what Jonathan was saying.
All valuable feedback - Thank you!! I do have a tendency to jump in too soon sometimes, although I have definitely learned to sometimes just "smile and nod", but I feel like if I do that in a situation where someone is open to possibilities even a little bit, then not only am I not being true to myself (and all my programs lol), then am I doing them a disservice by not offering something? But, if I had been a little less keen in this situation, then I would have seen a little sooner that his arrogance would prevent him from listening to anyone's opinion but his own. It's all good though. I'm learning slowly. And maybe some of the things he does were meant to be a mirror for me so I don't do them to others. Food for thought.
davey72 said:
But I was going with this definition of anarchist:
"anarchy (countable and uncountable, plural anarchies)
(uncountable) The state of a society being without authorities or an authoritative governing body.
(uncountable) Anarchism; the political theory that a community is best organized by the voluntary cooperation of individuals, rather than by a government, which is regarded as being coercive by nature.
(countable) A chaotic and confusing absence of any form of political authority or government.
Confusion in general; disorder.
Usage notesEdit
(confusion or misunderstanding in general): Anarchists feel it is inappropriate to use anarchy to mean “a state of chaos or confusion”. However, this has historically been a common use of the word.:
D
Deleted member 11729
Guest
Jonathan said:
yep .. thank you to putting this so nicely into the words ... knowledge really gives us strength not to interfere with someones path, unless we are asked or invited to give our different opinions and explain them ... but on the other side, it is not really good to be silent around things that are not right. I usually point them out more like as presentation of my choice, opinion or what so ever, to general audience over the social networks, or in my public appearances in media or when I am giving lectures about my work. When I am asked why I do this or that differently, I am always using it as a chance to bring awareness of the things around us, and I found that people appreciate that a lot, and they are getting back to me telling me how I helped them to see things differently and how the links and thoughts I selected were very helpful for them to see the trap, and how I inspired them to think about their own life more openly etc etc ... I know that with my personal example and thoughts and way of life and work, that I directly and indirectly changed for good life of many people, those I know personally, and those I never meet in person ... and I am gratfull for that, as than I thikn all I struggled was worth to open up easier way for others to folow ...
But lately I am becoming concerned is that approach good at all. What I am doing there? Do I just presenting my thoughts that actually from day to day makes me both - more vulnerable towards the system, but more strong towards humanity and strength within my own mind and free will character??? I don't care about been expelled form the system ;) .... but if we think realistically, one can't really survive today abandoning the system as it is so well organized that if we are not capable to learn how to survive withouth food an water, we can hardly get out of that completely ... so the fear of survival coming to my door and I don't like it at all, as I feel it is just another trap to put me down ... but ... fear is coming, and I think it is natural, as I have a family and it is not just about how my love for freedom will affect those who are depending on me ..
Lately I realize that some how I got lucky not to be involved in things through my 25 year long career, that can compromise me on any level, and where I am relay the example how one can work good and avoid to play by all the dirty things, that are sooner or later imposed on any one who work and live in a small professional community ... I realize that people needs that kind of example, if they want to keep going that way, good example is always inspiring not to give up ... I don't know ... demand from people who are approaching me with thankful words for my strength and freedom, start to be demanding towards the level of responsibility to keep up the not my way of life and work, it will never change, but more towards more articulated presentation and inspiration going through thoughts, talks, writings etc ... ... and I am not sure is it just my wrong perception of things, or do I relay need to take more strong and devoted path on that side, to be a more direct voice of truth, justice and freedom and strength for others? ... I don't know, I always was kind of modest when people will thank me for something what I feel is natural thing to do, I always was taking step back if I will see that people worship me beyond normal human level ... I don't know, I don't want to be a star, and I don't want to make people to envy me for any reason, that is something what makes me feel to close down and stop. I really do want to be a mirror for each who want's me, no matter how exhausted and broken I will be after, if that helped someone to find the strength, I will recover fast ... but yes I experienced of to be a mirror to those who just wanted to brake me, and recovery from that is almost impossible without holes that always bleeds from time to time ... Reading and learning through Cassioapea stuff helped me to understand a lot about that, but I am still learning ... I learned how to protect my self from been very very naive about idea that we are all humans with potential to be good .... I learned more how to listen and how not to interfere if I am not asked, I learn a lot more things and I am really grateful for that ... don't know just thinking loud ...
Sometimes it's really hard being surrounded by people who aren't on the same path, especially if you anticipated to meet someone who cared about the things you do. I think we all understand the feelings of loneliness. I agree with what everyone else has advised, just try to remember the externally considerate "listen for yourself and speak for others" - the more you understand yourself the more you'll understand others, in terms of knowing that we are all machines and are just running off our programs. It's also difficult to remember that we were once like they are, once as unconscious or oblivious to all the truth out there. Maybe one day you'll smile at these sort of encounters, :)
Good Luck Meechel17 :D
Good Luck Meechel17 :D
khadi
The Force is Strong With This One
Meechel17 said:
I could be totally off, but what I am imagining from this brief description is someone who is talking to you for the sake of social connection. And that maybe the social connection - being acquainted, greeting each other, sharing the same space and activity regularly - is for him stronger than 'what is talked about'. If the two of you were the same, there would be nothing to learn! No interesting play of difference, no possibility for anything surprising to emerge. I'm not advocating 'sticking it out' in the presence of someone you don't want to be around - but trying to express the option of a different sort of attitude than that of coolness/testing/analysis. Difference can be enjoyed :)
HifromGrace
Jedi
You're reminding me of advice I've been giving myself lately to chew on.
It's a spin off of K.I.S.S. ("Keep It Simple Stupid"), except it stands for Keep It SURFACE Stupid. Keep the relationship on the surface. Enjoy their company and don't expect more. Quit leaping in at any first signs of connection.
I too have suffered from longing to connect with others, reaching out for comrads & peers, only to end up confused and burned.
So I hope this is of some help - lighten up where needed. & just enjoy this person for what they CAN give you, companionship (not politcal or personal bonds for example). Healthy surface relationships can stave off the loneliness too.
It's a spin off of K.I.S.S. ("Keep It Simple Stupid"), except it stands for Keep It SURFACE Stupid. Keep the relationship on the surface. Enjoy their company and don't expect more. Quit leaping in at any first signs of connection.
I too have suffered from longing to connect with others, reaching out for comrads & peers, only to end up confused and burned.
So I hope this is of some help - lighten up where needed. & just enjoy this person for what they CAN give you, companionship (not politcal or personal bonds for example). Healthy surface relationships can stave off the loneliness too.
The more I ponder on it, I think that the upsetting part for me is knowing that two of my particular vulnerabilities got me again - longing for deeper connections in social networks and having someone seemingly value me. But, the deeper connection wasn't really there and he only valued me as someone to boost his ego - him being the teacher and me being the student. But, I'm still grateful for the lesson.
Lilyalic, it is definitely good to remind ourselves that we were once believers in the system as others are, and therefore to have compassion for them. Like I said yesterday, HifromGrace it did make me laugh when he had to call me over to his table to ask me if I knew someone else in town who has a bumper sticker on her car supporting Palestinians because he said I was the only other person he knew with that same view about Palestine/Israel and Putin. So, two steps forward, one step back sometimes. But forward momentum nonetheless.
solarmind, I definitely hear what you are saying, I know this is constantly a struggle for me in my work - knowing when to speak and when to stay silent and just listen. I definitely trip up from time to time.
These discussions on the forum are sustenance for my soul :)
Lilyalic, it is definitely good to remind ourselves that we were once believers in the system as others are, and therefore to have compassion for them. Like I said yesterday, HifromGrace it did make me laugh when he had to call me over to his table to ask me if I knew someone else in town who has a bumper sticker on her car supporting Palestinians because he said I was the only other person he knew with that same view about Palestine/Israel and Putin. So, two steps forward, one step back sometimes. But forward momentum nonetheless.
solarmind, I definitely hear what you are saying, I know this is constantly a struggle for me in my work - knowing when to speak and when to stay silent and just listen. I definitely trip up from time to time.
These discussions on the forum are sustenance for my soul :)