Financial frequency fence USA

hlat

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Many of us need money to survive, for basics like food and shelter. The system is set up to attack us. It is up to us to learn how to counter the system's financial attacks. All bets are off when the financial system collapses. Until then, we need to survive the financial system. If we can live our lives without owing debt to the system, that's great. If we can't, we have protections.

At the emergency level, the best protection we have is Chapter 7 bankruptcy. This bankruptcy allows us to keep thousands of dollars or even tens of thousands of dollars of property. We practically keep all our retirement account money like 401Ks or IRAs in all states. So this bankruptcy is really a great financial protection for us. The banksters hate to lose any money we might legally owe them, so they create fear and social disapproval against bankruptcy. But our right to bankruptcy is in the Constitution, and it is our ace in the hole protecting our ability to live. We have more than one ace in the hole too, as the ability to use bankruptcy is available to us again after some years pass.

Beyond the emergency level, there are other counters to the system's attacks so that we can tread water and not get sucked down the drain. Housing costs are one of the biggest costs for us, and hence one of the biggest attacks on us. The financially wealth usually make their money through capital gains or owning a business, not by working for someone else for a salary. We can take a page of out the playbook of the wealthy, and buy a home to live in instead of paying rent. We don't need 20% down payment to buy a home. There are 0% down payment mortgage programs available for us as long as we are making money from a job. At least one of these mortgage programs allows us to have bad credit or no credit, so that we could possibly buy a home just after finishing with bankruptcy. If housing prices rise, then we have capital gains, like the financially wealthy. This could be hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax free capital gains. If housing price fall, there are protections for us.

What protections do we have if we cannot afford our mortgage payments? An obvious protection is not paying the mortgage anymore and instead saving the money that would have gone to the mortgage. That doesn't sound like much of a protection, and sometimes it is not. Sometimes it is a big protection, because we can't get kicked out of our homes overnight. It takes several months of not paying our mortgage before the banksters even start the foreclosure process. For example, one of the biggest investors that owns mortgages is Fannie Mae, and banksters have to wait 121 days before starting the foreclosure process for a Fannie mortgage. Then, the foreclosure process take months at a minimum, and even up to several years. Then, the banksters have to go through the eviction process after foreclosure. So while the months or years go by that we are not paying our mortgage, we are saving our money so that we have ability to move on with our lives when the banksters finally evict us after foreclosure.

What if we want to do more than saving the money that we otherwise would have paid for the mortgage? We can request a loan modification, but the banksters are not legally compelled to agree to a loan modification. However, after the banksters victimized millions of homeowners after the housing bubble burst, many of them either made internal policy changes or agreed to legal settlements. The banksters have a system so that we can look up the investor that owns our mortgage and the servicer of our mortgage. The servicer is basically the middleman between us and the investor that owns our mortgage. For example, we send our mortgage payments to the servicer. We would also make a loan modification request to the servicer. The investor tells the servicer what kind of loan modifications can be made on the mortgage. For example, big investor Fannie Mae has a standard loan modification policy to extend our mortgage to practically 40 years from today. Many bankster servicers agreed to legal settlements so that they would be forced to pause the foreclosure process while they consider our loan modification request. For these banksters, even if they denied our loan modification request, we gained more months of saving money as the foreclosure process was delayed during their consideration of the loan modification.

Another way the system is set up to attack us in a big way is student loans. We should never take out private student loans or parental federal student loans. Student loans practically cannot be eliminated with bankruptcy. Federal student loans owed by student borrowers are relatively survivable because their monthly payments can be our based on our income. As a result, the monthly payment can be as low as $0, and these loans are forgiven after 25 years of being in income based repayment plans. Private student loans are very dangerous because they cannot be forced into an income based repayment plan or forced to be forgiven. The only protection against private student loans is the statute of limitations. After the number of years in the statute of limitations passes without us making a payment or promising to pay, the private student loan is not enforceable in court. But we would still be vulnerable if the private student loan owner sued us in court before the statute of limitations expired, so again we should never use private student loans. Parental federal student loans are even more dangerous because they have no statute of limitations, have no income based repayment plan, and practically have no forgiveness.

Our credit reports and credit scores will take a hit when we go through bankruptcy, stop paying our mortgage, stop paying our student loans, or stop paying other bills like credit cards and medical bills. Our survival and our ability to have the basics like food and shelter are more important than our credit. In an emergency, we can use bankruptcy to wipe out all unsecured debt like credit cards and medical bills. The day we finish with bankruptcy, some banks or credit unions will approve us for unsecured credit cards or car loans, and many will after a year or two. Our credit can bounce up in a year or two.

None of this is meant for us to go on a spending spree with no intention of paying back. That would be fraud and could prevent us from using bankruptcy and could even send us to prison.

If we are going to leave any money in the system, one of the best options is a Roth IRA. We could have a million dollars in a Roth IRA and keep it all through a bankruptcy. We can withdraw whatever money we put into a Roth IRA at anytime without any tax penalty. The money in a Roth IRA doesn't have to be invested in anything because it could sit in an FDIC insured account within the IRA.


Fannie Mae standard loan modification policy
_ https://www.fanniemae.com/content/guide/servicing/d2/3.2/05.html
Fannie Mae 121 day timeline to refer a mortgage to the foreclosure process
_ https://www.fanniemae.com/content/guide/servicing/e/1.2/02.html
MERS look up the investor and servicer of a mortgage
_ https://www.mers-servicerid.org
Federal student loans owed by student borrowers
_ https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-driven
 
Thank you hlat. I enjoyed reading this :), and boy-o-boy I wish I had knowledge of those evil parental student loans years ago :headbash:.
I sure can attest to what and when you say:

hlat said:
[...]
Parental federal student loans are even more dangerous because they have no statute of limitations, have no income based repayment plan, and practically have no forgiveness.
[...]

Never Never Never do them.!.!.!
 
Wow, thanks for posting this hlat! I guess some may view these kinds of tactics as unethical even if it is the "last resort", but then again IMO the odds stacked against us financially can be seen as unethical at best.
 
trendsetter37 said:
Wow, thanks for posting this hlat! I guess some may view these kinds of tactics as unethical even if it is the "last resort", but then again IMO the odds stacked against us financially can be seen as unethical at best.

I agree with that sentiment. If we consider that the entire monetary system was designed to fleece us of our property, our labor and our wealth right from the get-go, it is not really so 'unethical' of us to do whatever is necessary for us to combat this system in a way that gets us out from under the burdens with which we have been saddled.

From the sneaky establishment of the Private Federal Reserve system of creation of 'money' by debt in 1913 to the imposition of the 'Income Tax' in the same year, the system was put into place to do exactly that! And, it has worked extremely well - for 'them'. Yes, it's all falling apart these days, as they knew it would eventually because it is an unsustainable system and has failed to survive every time it was implemented, but meanwhile, 'they' have gathered the vast majority of wealth, property and the power it gives them to themselves.
 
hlat said:
[...]
Parental federal student loans are even more dangerous because they have no statute of limitations, have no income based repayment plan, and practically have no forgiveness.
[...]

I understand that federal student loans can be refinanced to save money and kick Sally Mae outta the house. But, does anyone know if the Federal Parent Loans (PLUS) are able to be refinanced?
 
AL Today said:
hlat said:
[...]
Parental federal student loans are even more dangerous because they have no statute of limitations, have no income based repayment plan, and practically have no forgiveness.
[...]

I understand that federal student loans can be refinanced to save money and kick Sally Mae outta the house. But, does anyone know if the Federal Parent Loans (PLUS) are able to be refinanced?

Initially I had my own Unsubsidized Stafford loans for grad school. Later I took out PLUS loans to help my 3 daughters through college. In 2001 I was able to consolidate both these loans because they're both FFEL loans. Because of a divorce and drastic cuts in insurance reimbursement to me for services, I eventually filed for bankruptcy in 2006. That was about a year after Bush changed bankruptcy rules to exclude student loan debt. So I defaulted, and the state guarantee agency took over my loan and set up an income-contingent payment of $250, which I paid without fail. Because I was to begin collecting Social Security in 2015, I was concerned they'd garnish 25% of the benefits (which can be done if in default).

But, with perfect timing, in 2014 the state agency suggested, due to my perfect payment record, I "rehabilitate" my loan out of default. Once back with the lender, my loan would then be eligible for a federal Direct Consolidation Loan, which would allow for an ICR (Income-Contingent Repayment). I did this and got the consolidation loan without any problem. Based on recent tax returns, they've calculated my income-contingent payment to be 0 (vs. $7,800 regular payment), where it will remain hereafter since my income will not be rising.

So, despite Bush's depriving me of the right to discharge this debt via bankruptcy, even though I now have a student loan balance of $531,000 (most of which is capitalized interest and 25% penalties! -- my original loan disbursements totaled only $120,000), I am no longer in default, I pay 0 per month and my Social Security benefits are not in jeopardy!
 
JGeropoulas said:
[...]
I now have a student loan balance of $531,000 (most of which is capitalized interest and 25% penalties! -- my original loan disbursements totaled only $120,000)
[...]

Yep, it's crazy how $120,000 loan can result in owing $531,000... Sign of the Times...
Where have I heard that...
It's freaking crazy. But, they have control, which they want. I'll dig deeper into refinancing but methinks I still have to buy my own jelly when Sallie Mae has me bend over every month...
 
AL Today said:
JGeropoulas said:
[...]
I now have a student loan balance of $531,000 (most of which is capitalized interest and 25% penalties! -- my original loan disbursements totaled only $120,000)
[...]

Yep, it's crazy how $120,000 loan can result in owing $531,000... Sign of the Times...
Where have I heard that...
It's freaking crazy. But, they have control, which they want. I'll dig deeper into refinancing but methinks I still have to buy my own jelly when Sallie Mae has me bend over every month...

Yea, it's pretty ridiculous. What's the logic behind owing 5 times an original debt because one struggles with the initial amount. That is slavery with a different cloak it seems.
 
trendsetter37 said:
Yea, it's pretty ridiculous. What's the logic behind owing 5 times an original debt because one struggles with the initial amount. That is slavery with a different cloak it seems.

Same "logic" used prior to my bankruptcy, when I could no longer afford payments on my low-interest credit cards: Instead of working with me on some affordable payment plan, the credit card companies raised the card's interest rate to 25%!
 
JGeropoulas said:
[...]
some affordable payment plan
[...]

I did what I thought was the honorable thing and I went to a financial management organization sponsored by the state and paid off all my loans within 5 years. The management company negotiated with every lender and I paid one(1) bill a month. A five(5) year payment plan.
That was stoopid...
I would've been much better off to go bankrupt and wiped it all out. In paying off the loans with the management company my credit score dropped down into the basement. I would've been better off with no credit, a state of non-being.
When one goes bankrupt, lenders will sooner deal with you for new money than have that large looming balance due hanging over my head. This fico score krap haunts me even now, 12 years later. I will stop this rant.
I bet the whole story here is way back in my earlier posts.
The whole system is rigged to keep us (the ignorant) all in chains.


edit: And yes, I have LEARNED much since then As they say: -- Should Woulda Coulda - :cool2:
 
AL Today said:
But, does anyone know if the Federal Parent Loans (PLUS) are able to be refinanced?

Yes. I see companies that offer refinancing of parent PLUS loans when I ran a web search with the words plus loan refinance.

However, student loans are one face of the devil. Instead of getting a new student loan to pay off the previous student loan, maybe people would be better off with a credit card balance transfer or personal loan to pay off the student loan. I think the key is using a low fixed rate credit card balance transfer or personal loan. The irony is that the less assets people have, the less risk they have in using a credit card balance transfer or personal loan to pay off a parent or private student loan. That is because if things get really bad financially, people can go through bankruptcy and the credit card balance transfer or personal loan is gone.
 
trendsetter37 said:
I guess some may view these kinds of tactics as unethical even if it is the "last resort", but then again IMO the odds stacked against us financially can be seen as unethical at best.

I think this is the heart of the financial attack against us, this attempt to social shame and stigmatize people who avail themselves to the protections given to the people by the Constitution and laws. These financial institutions are not ruined if we lawfully stop paying. On the other hand, if we borrow money from mom and dad or son and daughter, and don't pay them back, we might possibly ruin them. So never borrowing or lending money to people is wise, because everyone is likely better protected with unsecured debt from a financial institution like credit cards or personal loans.
 
JGeropoulas said:
Initially I had my own Unsubsidized Stafford loans for grad school. Later I took out PLUS loans to help my 3 daughters through college. In 2001 I was able to consolidate both these loans because they're both FFEL loans. Because of a divorce and drastic cuts in insurance reimbursement to me for services, I eventually filed for bankruptcy in 2006. That was about a year after Bush changed bankruptcy rules to exclude student loan debt. So I defaulted, and the state guarantee agency took over my loan and set up an income-contingent payment of $250, which I paid without fail. Because I was to begin collecting Social Security in 2015, I was concerned they'd garnish 25% of the benefits (which can be done if in default).

But, with perfect timing, in 2014 the state agency suggested, due to my perfect payment record, I "rehabilitate" my loan out of default. Once back with the lender, my loan would then be eligible for a federal Direct Consolidation Loan, which would allow for an ICR (Income-Contingent Repayment). I did this and got the consolidation loan without any problem. Based on recent tax returns, they've calculated my income-contingent payment to be 0 (vs. $7,800 regular payment), where it will remain hereafter since my income will not be rising.

So, despite Bush's depriving me of the right to discharge this debt via bankruptcy, even though I now have a student loan balance of $531,000 (most of which is capitalized interest and 25% penalties! -- my original loan disbursements totaled only $120,000), I am no longer in default, I pay 0 per month and my Social Security benefits are not in jeopardy!

This is a really happy ending. I suspect that the federal Direct Consolidation Loan eliminating your parent PLUS loan was possible only because the parent PLUS loan was consolidated with your own federal Stafford student loans. I suspect that people who do not have their own federal student loan would not be able to consolidate their parent PLUS loan into a federal Direct Consolidation Loan, and thus not be able to have income based repayment.
 
AL Today said:
I would've been better off with no credit, a state of non-being.

I have seen at least one zero down payment mortgage program that does not base approvals on people's credit reports or credit scores. However, people need to demonstrate they've paid all their bills in the last 2 years, with cancelled checks, receipts, monthly statements, and other documents to back it up. So it's possible to buy a home with no credit score.
 
hlat said:
AL Today said:
But, does anyone know if the Federal Parent Loans (PLUS) are able to be refinanced?

Yes. I see companies that offer refinancing of parent PLUS loans when I ran a web search with the words plus loan refinance.

However, student loans are one face of the devil. Instead of getting a new student loan to pay off the previous student loan, maybe people would be better off with a credit card balance transfer or personal loan to pay off the student loan. I think the key is using a low fixed rate credit card balance transfer or personal loan. The irony is that the less assets people have, the less risk they have in using a credit card balance transfer or personal loan to pay off a parent or private student loan. That is because if things get really bad financially, people can go through bankruptcy and the credit card balance transfer or personal loan is gone.
That's a good point, and probably more applicable in real world terms than the point I want to make just FYI: With federal student loans, after 25 years of Income-Contingent payments, no matter how small, the balance can be can written off. Of course this counts from the date of the consolidation, not date when the first payments were made on individual loans consolidated. 25 years! -- very hard to think in those terms given what we know and see around us.

hlat said:
I have seen at least one zero down payment mortgage program that does not base approvals on people's credit reports or credit scores. However, people need to demonstrate they've paid all their bills in the last 2 years, with cancelled checks, receipts, monthly statements, and other documents to back it up. So it's possible to buy a home with no credit score.
I filed bankruptcy in 2003 (not 2006 as earlier stated in error), which was very weird to have to do since I'd had 20 years of perfect credit on numerous loans/accounts. But I had no choice and came to realize that bankruptcy was an ethical, moral and legal option for anyone qualified--which certainly included me. The only "cost" would be that I had to learn to live without being part of the debt/credit economy--on a cash basis (i.e. pre-1950's). Soon after bankruptcy, I needed to buy a new car since my other 2 had been repossessed. I found a suitable used car at CarMax and offered my father as a co-signer. They reviewed my credit history--ignoring the bankruptcy--and said a co-signer was not necessary. In the weeks which followed, I was flooded with offers for credit cards from every store and company imaginable. Of course, I tossed them all out, paid my car off in 2006 (which I still drive--only 123,000 miles) and have never applied for a loan/credit card since then.
 
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