I'm feeling unwelcome here, post deleted

[Archaea]

Interesting video Buddy, thanks for sharing. And thanks for the comments everybody, and thanks for the faith sitting, I guess it would be wise not to get my account deleted and maybe just take some time to process some of this stuff and read the Sott articles Andromeda suggested.

A few things though, I don't think of myself as an angry person. The people I live with now seem to speak forcefully, even yell, to get things their way, they don't seem to be to keen on discussing things sometimes. I usually react passively and just end up doing what they want, I don't feel like I have the energy to argue. I could move, but the house is close to work, and it's a good place for the dog, and they're pretty relaxed people usually and they don't make my life difficult. Point is I might be suppressing my anger there.

Another thing is that a few years ago I was given rat poison, twice. The first guy put it in some pasta and gave it to me when I was staying at his house. I felt a funny feeling in my stomach during the night and in the morning he told me he poisoned it, I said "I know," I didn't think it would hurt me, Then we went for a bike ride and I was so thirsty and I spewed up quite a fair bit onto the bike path. We agreed that he should go on ahead while I had a rest. Eventually I figured I had to get up and keep going to get some water, otherwise I'd be in trouble.

The second time I was staying at another guy's house, and in the morning I asked for a glass of water, he said he'd get it for me and I drank it. Then we went down to the park to have some sausages. The guy who gave me the water said "don't worry, we have the antidote," like it would help, I think he may have been a little worried. I spewed like 50 times, I kept drinking water from the tap and spewing. That night I had the same funny feeling in my stomach.

So I think this may be part of the reason for my attention seeking behavior. Ironically I've been keeping this to myself because I didn't think I needed the attention, but I think I haven't been giving my emotions validation and that has been causing them to come up in unhealthy ways. Also I don't think it's a good idea to do anything with too much physical contact because of this.

Another thing is, it seems to me that some of this stuff comes down to theory of mind. Understanding how people are going to react, physically, mentally and emotionally in certain situations. The narratives that I create and run in my brain hamper my ability to utilize my theory of mind, which means I can easily fall into the trap of internal considering.

 

[Mr. Premise]

You got poisoned, twice, by friends??? Yikes! That's not normal. I've never heard of such a thing. That would certainly lead to some trust issues.

 

[Buddy]

I agree with Mr. Premise, Archaea. That would have been a damned awful experience... and to have gone through it twice!

Another thing is, it seems to me that some of this stuff comes down to theory of mind. Understanding how people are going to react, physically, mentally and emotionally in certain situations. The narratives that I create and run in my brain hamper my ability to utilize my theory of mind, which means I can easily fall into the trap of internal considering.

I know, but that's just your way of downplaying your cognitive gifts. We all have our way of doing that. There's quite a few other super smart people here that seem to be beyond that mode that can be described IRL as that mechanical mimicry that some people call thinking. You know, that unending repetition or recapitulation, with excessive embellishment, of previously cached experience delivered in the same tired old way that makes us wish we could go without hearing another word the rest of our life.

Anyway, give it a shot. Here, people are trying to help and people are trying to be helped, IMO. There's a part in this play for you and everyone if it's wanted, I think.

 

[Andromeda]

Interesting video Buddy, thanks for sharing. And thanks for the comments everybody, and thanks for the faith sitting, I guess it would be wise not to get my account deleted and maybe just take some time to process some of this stuff and read the Sott articles Andromeda suggested.

I'm glad to hear you want to keep trying, Archaea. You can always do your own search too. That's just what I came up with.

A few things though, I don't think of myself as an angry person. The people I live with now seem to speak forcefully, even yell, to get things their way, they don't seem to be to keen on discussing things sometimes. I usually react passively and just end up doing what they want, I don't feel like I have the energy to argue. I could move, but the house is close to work, and it's a good place for the dog, and they're pretty relaxed people usually and they don't make my life difficult. Point is I might be suppressing my anger there.

Yep, I definitely think you suppress your anger at the wrong times and then let it out in a way that doesn't usually help. Lots of people have had this problem though, it's pretty common and certainly can be changed with some time and effort. I don't know if the living situation you describe above is a reason to be angry. You would have to decide that....and whether it's good to stay or find another place.

Gabor Mate describes healthy anger as the response to an invasion of boundaries (more or less). That can mean psychological/emotional or physical boundaries. It's the feeling of "This is my space/feeling, step away." "I have a right to be here." and then saying that in a way that is fair to the other person or appropriate to the circumstance (sometimes just saying "no" calmly, or it could be shouting if you are under serious threat, for instance). Unhealthy anger might then be something along the lines of NOT reacting when someone crosses your boundaries, but then you have the feeling anyway and save it to express when it's not warranted in an exaggerated way. That can even lead to you trying to cross other peoples boundaries in an attempt to claim your lost "space" or "rights" from others when they don't belong to you. I think this kind of thing happens when you have lost a healthy feeling and respect of what belongs to YOU and what belongs to OTHERS. If this is what's going on with you, you'll have to work on figuring out what belongs to whom and to be okay with it. It might be hard to do at first but it can be done and the people that care about you can help. People that care about you want you to have a healthy sense of self and healthy boundaries, but they can't give them to you. They can only indicate when something is wrong or support you by respecting your feelings. Note that this doesn't mean that people who care about you will let you get away with crossing their boundaries.

Another thing is that a few years ago I was given rat poison, twice. The first guy put it in some pasta and gave it to me when I was staying at his house. I felt a funny feeling in my stomach during the night and in the morning he told me he poisoned it, I said "I know," I didn't think it would hurt me, Then we went for a bike ride and I was so thirsty and I spewed up quite a fair bit onto the bike path. We agreed that he should go on ahead while I had a rest. Eventually I figured I had to get up and keep going to get some water, otherwise I'd be in trouble.

The second time I was staying at another guy's house, and in the morning I asked for a glass of water, he said he'd get it for me and I drank it. Then we went down to the park to have some sausages. The guy who gave me the water said "don't worry, we have the antidote," like it would help, I think he may have been a little worried. I spewed like 50 times, I kept drinking water from the tap and spewing. That night I had the same funny feeling in my stomach.

This is really not normal. Do you have any idea what these people could have been thinking when they did this? Did you know about the poison in the pasta before eating it? If you did, why did you eat it? This would have been the right time to get ANGRY.

So I think this may be part of the reason for my attention seeking behavior.

FWIW, I don't think this is the reason for you attention seeking behavior. It sounds more like an example of repressing anger. The roots of your attention seeking behavior and the tendency to repress anger probably go back a lot farther.

Ironically I've been keeping this to myself because I didn't think I needed the attention, but I think I haven't been giving my emotions validation and that has been causing them to come up in unhealthy ways.

True about not validating your emotions in a healthy way. And you were right that you didn't need attention for this. You needed to protect yourself. You seem to mix up the need for attention and the need to protect yourself with healthy anger. Do you think that if you get the right kind of attention it will protect you from being harmed in some way? Or it will fix past traumas? Do you think that other people are supposed to be angry FOR you or AT you so that you don't need to do it yourself? If that is the case, you are expecting too much of other people. That would be an example of giving up your personal authority. Maybe you couldn't do it when you were younger, but you can protect yourself now. And you should be able to do it without hurting or manipulating others once you realize that happens. Remember, friends are people you can share with and who can empathize or offer advice, but they are not there to feel your feelings for you.

Also I don't think it's a good idea to do anything with too much physical contact because of this.

Alright. Scratch that idea then.

Another thing is, it seems to me that some of this stuff comes down to theory of mind. Understanding how people are going to react, physically, mentally and emotionally in certain situations. The narratives that I create and run in my brain hamper my ability to utilize my theory of mind, which means I can easily fall into the trap of internal considering.

Beyond theory, I think you need to grow understanding. In order to do that you have to keep the theory in mind and try to apply it to current and past experiences to see if it actually fits. You may have to rework your theory 100's of times. This includes your theories of how/why others react certain ways and, most importantly, how and why you react and have reacted in certain ways. The idea would be to observe and make connections, ask for and listen to feedback, find the bits that "fit" perfectly and use them as foundations. This is the process of re-calibrating your reality reading instrument.

 

[Archaea]

You got poisoned, twice, by friends??? Yikes! That's not normal. I've never heard of such a thing. That would certainly lead to some trust issues.

Yeah, I think it's pretty bad.

I know, but that's just your way of downplaying your cognitive gifts. We all have our way of doing that. There's quite a few other super smart people here that seem to be beyond that mode that can be described IRL as that mechanical mimicry that some people call thinking. You know, that unending repetition or recapitulation, with excessive embellishment, of previously cached experience delivered in the same tired old way that makes us wish we could go without hearing another word the rest of our life.

So these narratives are the result of experiences that haven't worked themselves out, or haven't been worked out? What do you think might be a good way to end the loop?

Gabor Mate describes healthy anger as the response to an invasion of boundaries (more or less). That can mean psychological/emotional or physical boundaries. It's the feeling of "This is my space/feeling, step away." "I have a right to be here." and then saying that in a way that is fair to the other person or appropriate to the circumstance (sometimes just saying "no" calmly, or it could be shouting if you are under serious threat, for instance). Unhealthy anger might then be something along the lines of NOT reacting when someone crosses your boundaries, but then you have the feeling anyway and save it to express when it's not warranted in an exaggerated way. That can even lead to you trying to cross other peoples boundaries in an attempt to claim your lost "space" or "rights" from others when they don't belong to you. I think this kind of thing happens when you have lost a healthy feeling and respect of what belongs to YOU and what belongs to OTHERS. If this is what's going on with you, you'll have to work on figuring out what belongs to whom and to be okay with it. It might be hard to do at first but it can be done and the people that care about you can help. People that care about you want you to have a healthy sense of self and healthy boundaries, but they can't give them to you. They can only indicate when something is wrong or support you by respecting your feelings. Note that this doesn't mean that people who care about you will let you get away with crossing their boundaries.

I think that applies to me. One of the root causes of this, I think, is a feeling of not being able to stop others violating my boundaries. I'm concerned that if I try I'll let whoever's doing it know where my boundaries are, and then they will continue to violate them in order to let me know that I can't stop them. This ties in with the personal authority issue as well, and I think I learned this in high school from bullies. I think it's the classic "just let them do what they want or it'll get worse" mode of thinking.

This is really not normal. Do you have any idea what these people could have been thinking when they did this? Did you know about the poison in the pasta before eating it? If you did, why did you eat it? This would have been the right time to get ANGRY.

I didn't know it was in the pasta until a while after I ate it. I don't know if getting angry would have helped, although I could be wrong, but if it was just us two there, isn't it possible he would have panicked if I got angry and them I'd have to deal with that as well?

FWIW, I don't think this is the reason for you attention seeking behavior. It sounds more like an example of repressing anger. The roots of your attention seeking behavior and the tendency to repress anger probably go back a lot farther.

I agree.

True about not validating your emotions in a healthy way. And you were right that you didn't need attention for this. You needed to protect yourself. You seem to mix up the need for attention and the need to protect yourself with healthy anger. Do you think that if you get the right kind of attention it will protect you from being harmed in some way? Or it will fix past traumas? Do you think that other people are supposed to be angry FOR you or AT you so that you don't need to do it yourself?

I really don't know. Maybe my attention seeking behavior comes from a need to prove that I'm not worthless to other people. Suppressed anger is problem I think, but I don't like others getting angry on my behalf, I don't feel like I deserve it, and I don't think I do, I don't want to take sides or inflame conflicts.

Beyond theory, I think you need to grow understanding. In order to do that you have to keep the theory in mind and try to apply it to current and past experiences to see if it actually fits. You may have to rework your theory 100's of times. This includes your theories of how/why others react certain ways and, most importantly, how and why you react and have reacted in certain ways. The idea would be to observe and make connections, ask for and listen to feedback, find the bits that "fit" perfectly and use them as foundations. This is the process of re-calibrating your reality reading instrument.

Right, and the theory needs to be based on objective data and not on narratives I've constructed in my brain.

Thanks for the input, I might wait a few days before replying to any more posts. I feel like this is going too quickly and I want to digest some of the stuff we've already been through.

 

[Andromeda]

Thanks for the input, I might wait a few days before replying to any more posts. I feel like this is going too quickly and I want to digest some of the stuff we've already been through.

That sounds like a good idea. I'll wait to respond to your post then too. See you when you get back.

 

[Richs]

Right, and the theory needs to be based on objective data and not on narratives I've constructed in my brain.

Thanks for the input, I might wait a few days before replying to any more posts. I feel like this is going too quickly and I want to digest some of the stuff we've already been through.

Most of those of us who have come here are 'walking wounded', so to speak, because of all the things which have been done to us from a very early age. Our job is to heal ourselves from all this pain and come to terms with all of this so as to become the person we were actually meant to be if all these things had not been done to us.

While this is absolutely doable, it usually takes quite a bit of time and effort and can be painful and rather difficult at times. If Worked on diligently and consistently and with the help of a group, such as this where many have had very similar experiences as yourself, you may come to a point where when you look back at yourself as you used to be before all this Work, it will be difficult to even remember how and who you used to be.

Because of all the evil surrounding and continuously acting upon us, most of us developed thought patterns, buffers and all kinds of character traits which helped us compensate for these things and ease our pain in some way. Sometimes we even did 'evil things' because of all this trauma and mental confusion. This does not 'excuse' those things, but we can now be aware of why we were doing these sorts of things and put a halt to this behavior.

One thing you should know if you are not already aware of is that when you have gone a certain distance down the 'Esoteric Path' you can NOT go back! This sounds pretty scary, but the reality is that after a certain point is reached, you would not ever WANT to go back!

One thing is for certain... everyone here will do their absolute best to help all those who need and want their assistance.

So take a few days off and get your thoughts together. I'm sure you have lots to think about.

 

[Buddy]

So these narratives are the result of experiences that haven't worked themselves out, or haven't been worked out? What do you think might be a good way to end the loop?

I was thinking more like the whole purpose of internal considering is to limit what we do next. In some cases it might just be that without the self-limiting thought loops, we might respond more naturally. Depending on the situation, the response could be to use your perceptual skills to help a poster see something he might not be seeing, or to defend an established boundary for your own benefit...

One of the root causes of this, I think, is a feeling of not being able to stop others violating my boundaries. I'm concerned that if I try I'll let whoever's doing it know where my boundaries are, and then they will continue to violate them in order to let me know that I can't stop them. This ties in with the personal authority issue as well, and I think I learned this in high school from bullies. I think it's the classic "just let them do what they want or it'll get worse" mode of thinking.

This is really not normal. Do you have any idea what these people could have been thinking when they did this? Did you know about the poison in the pasta before eating it? If you did, why did you eat it? This would have been the right time to get ANGRY.

I didn't know it was in the pasta until a while after I ate it. I don't know if getting angry would have helped, although I could be wrong, but if it was just us two there, isn't it possible he would have panicked if I got angry and them I'd have to deal with that as well?

Had you realized at the time you were eating the pasta that someone had put rat poison in it, you would not have known how much was used or if it be enough to cause neurological damage or even death. In such a case, why would you care if he got angry? You were poisoned! It would seem your life-values system would place his potential emotional reaction on a lower priority level.

Is there more to this story that would help a reader understand why someone in your life would think it was Ok to do something like that to you?

Note: I understand you're taking time to read and digest information, so just continue doing what you need to do... :)

 

[sitting]

... I want to digest some of the stuff we've already been through.

Hi Archaea,

Reflection/introspection is a good thing. It takes time and solitude.

But do keep in mind that "giving" is ultimately the true means to spiritual growth & attainment. One will always be limited, if the focus is confined to simply "work on self."

That part is necessary ... but not sufficient.

It's as basic as STS in contrast to STO. We truly grow only through the pursuit of compassionate service to others. And we work on ourselves -- in order to be able to help others ... in the most appropriate way possible. (I understand this more clearly now.)

That is how the C's have described their ongoing endeavor. It's a very important distinction.

I could be wrong.

FWIW.

 

[Archaea]

Some good points Richard S, I'll keep them in mind.

I was thinking more like the whole purpose of internal considering is to limit what we do next. In some cases it might just be that without the self-limiting thought loops, we might respond more naturally. Depending on the situation, the response could be to use your perceptual skills to help a poster see something he might not be seeing, or to defend an established boundary for your own benefit...

I think that's interesting, is it possible that the reason we feel bad when we're wrong is that we're being "attacked" by something in order to condition us into only being comfortable when we're being internally considerate? So in order to become externally considerate we have to break through the conditioning as well as getting used to being uncomfortable.

Had you realized at the time you were eating the pasta that someone had put rat poison in it, you would not have known how much was used or if it be enough to cause neurological damage or even death. In such a case, why would you care if he got angry? You were poisoned! It would seem your life-values system would place his potential emotional reaction on a lower priority level.

Is there more to this story that would help a reader understand why someone in your life would think it was Ok to do something like that to you?

I think I'd prefer if he thought that everything was OK, that way I could just deal with my problems and not his. It seems to me that getting angry in that situation would have been internally considerate... maybe. At any rate, my feelings at the time were that it wasn't going to hurt me, it has had some long term effects, however, so that was a little naive.

I don't know why they did it, I think that they were after some social recognition from a bunch of wannabe criminals, but that's just a guess.

It's as basic as STS in contrast to STO. We truly grow only through the pursuit of compassionate service to others. And we work on ourselves -- in order to be able to help others ... in the most appropriate way possible. (I understand this more clearly now.)

That is how the C's have described their ongoing endeavor. It's a very important distinction.

I could be wrong.

I don't think you're wrong, I think that's quite insightful. :)


Here's what I've come up with regarding my problems: I think that after spending a lot of my life suppressing emotions, specifically my anger, my sub-conscious needs to find a way to express itself. When I originally came to this forum, this need meant that I was looking for attention in an inappropriate way, which lead to getting banned. This caused a transference of my suppressed emotions onto the forum, and since Laura is the main character here, a whole series of internal narratives and projections were created revolving around her.

I can see this rationally because some of the things that irked me regarding Laura are things that I couldn't care less about if it were someone else. However, these projections and narratives aren't based on intellectual energy, but emotional energy. Until these emotions are resolved, I believe these projections and narratives will continue to be generated, if not with this forum and Laura as the focus, then someone else.

The reason why I think I was so eager to jump on here and start telling people what's wrong with them is that the Internet feels safer than in person, and the people here don't respond with threats of violence, which makes this place feel like a safe place to be a jerk.

 

[Buddy]

I was thinking more like the whole purpose of internal considering is to limit what we do next. In some cases it might just be that without the self-limiting thought loops, we might respond more naturally. Depending on the situation, the response could be to use your perceptual skills to help a poster see something he might not be seeing, or to defend an established boundary for your own benefit...

I think that's interesting, is it possible that the reason we feel bad when we're wrong is that we're being "attacked" by something in order to condition us into only being comfortable when we're being internally considerate?

I suppose that is possible if you've internalized someone who has mercilessly nagged (attacked) you into compliance with their behavior requirements for you. Another possible view is in terms of dynamics: maybe the self simply felt it somehow became "less" or worse off than it was before a particular interaction and it disapproves of this feeling. Don Juan might laugh and explain it in terms of self-importance: "What you had to say was not near as important or true or as necessary, etc as you thought it was and when you found out, it was devastating to your self-image."

What I was intending to communicate in the above quote was a possibility that if we weren't talking to ourselves so much, there'd be no internal dialog to derail us. Our response would show a unified movement between perceiving and responding and that would be more natural and less risky for self-importance to become a factor. If the self-importance did become a factor, we'd be able to benefit from correcting something quicker and with less pain to our sense of ourself. But this is just my view ATM, and I don't think I'm saying it right.

So in order to become externally considerate we have to break through the conditioning as well as getting used to being uncomfortable.

That sounds like doing it the hard way. That might help some people and it might actually be the best.
In the case of interacting on the forum, I've got my own peculiar dysfunctions, I suppose, because I use this option: first, consider that the first reading of every post or situation is the wrong reading (you might also benefit from this IRL situations). Then read again and think about what was written. Then read again, trying not to translate what's been said within the framework of your own knowledge and experience. This is hard! Using a handy text editor, write out the reply to say what you wanna say. Let it sit a few. Don't be afraid to edit several times as you feel yourself disconnect personally from the thoughts you're about to post - thoughts that will forever (after some minutes, anyway) be crystallized into textual stasis. :)

I think I'd prefer if he thought that everything was OK, that way I could just deal with my problems and not his. It seems to me that getting angry in that situation would have been internally considerate... maybe.

I may be misunderstanding what you mean by "internally considerate" but I would think the opposite would be the case. With me, I think a reaction of anger or whatever would have been too fast to be mediated with internal considering the way I understand that concept. It would be the internal considering that would prevent the reaction to being poisoned; basically, a mental scenario created to come between "I" and the actual situation: my thoughts concerning "him and his possible reactions" and my possible reactions to his imagined reactions. That's the looping as I see it, and to me, that's internal considering.

 

[Buddy]

Here's what I've come up with regarding my problems: I think that after spending a lot of my life suppressing emotions, specifically my anger, my sub-conscious needs to find a way to express itself. When I originally came to this forum, this need meant that I was looking for attention in an inappropriate way, which lead to getting banned. This caused a transference of my suppressed emotions onto the forum, and since Laura is the main character here, a whole series of internal narratives and projections were created revolving around her.

I can see this rationally because some of the things that irked me regarding Laura are things that I couldn't care less about if it were someone else. However, these projections and narratives aren't based on intellectual energy, but emotional energy. Until these emotions are resolved, I believe these projections and narratives will continue to be generated, if not with this forum and Laura as the focus, then someone else.

The reason why I think I was so eager to jump on here and start telling people what's wrong with them is that the Internet feels safer than in person, and the people here don't respond with threats of violence, which makes this place feel like a safe place to be a jerk.

While in the comfort of your own home and privacy, why not use a text editor or take paper and pencil and write out a list of the things you think are wrong with other people? Then, line by line, ask yourself if that could apply to you? If you balk at the very idea or even at one of the items, that's an emotional reaction that's possibly useful. If you find this exercise is too disagreeable to work through, then write out reasons why each item cannot possibly have any connection to you, but then you'll have to write out what the reference is that you are comparing someone to in order to see them (or something about them) as wrong and why you disapprove so strongly of whatever it is they've said or done.

Of course, The Swamp is also at your disposal should you want to express yourself in an effort to get a handle on possibly suppressed emotion.

 

[obyvatel]

I think that's interesting, is it possible that the reason we feel bad when we're wrong is that we're being "attacked" by something in order to condition us into only being comfortable when we're being internally considerate?

I think a big part of feeling bad when we are wrong is our social conditioning. In a competitive society people are rewarded for being right and punished for being wrong. This starts early with the education system. We get points for being right, not otherwise. It is less about learning and more about being right. The same basic trend continues through out our life unless we notice it and take steps to change.

[quote author=Archaea]
So in order to become externally considerate we have to break through the conditioning as well as getting used to being uncomfortable.
[/quote]

If you think about it, you (or anyone else for that matter) have experienced being uncomfortable many times. It just happens, like it or not. So when it happens you can observe it and be aware that you are uncomfortable. It is useful to focus on body sensations which accompany the discomfort. Why? Because it is the most handy way of preventing thought loops from spinning around. When we let these thought loops driven by discomfort to take control of our behavior, we have internal considering. If we stay with body sensations and observe the discomfort, it goes away after some time.

Discomfort at being wrong is like a small spontaneous fire. If we contain it and do not provide fuel of our own to it, it just goes out in a short time. If we feed it with related thoughts it burns stronger. Then we spread the fire wider if we react on the basis of the discomfort and affect others negatively. It keeps burning longer and stronger with more and more fuel.

[quote author=Archaea]
I think I'd prefer if he thought that everything was OK, that way I could just deal with my problems and not his. It seems to me that getting angry in that situation would have been internally considerate... maybe. At any rate, my feelings at the time were that it wasn't going to hurt me, it has had some long term effects, however, so that was a little naive.

I don't know why they did it, I think that they were after some social recognition from a bunch of wannabe criminals, but that's just a guess.
[/quote]

In the case of poisoning, we are not talking about being uncomfortable because we are wrong and like to be right. We are talking about a clear physical threat. The appropriate response in the presence of physical threat is protective action. If someone is chased by a tiger, one runs or tries to fight. There is no anger or fear involved in that moment - at least not in the sense we normally describe such emotions. There is just action - fight or flight. The third possible response is freeze. It is very common in the presence of threat. If escape or fighting are not viable options, nature has endowed creatures with the freeze response which lessens the pain of mortal injury and death. Sometimes, if the prey acts dead, the predator may let it go or reduce its own alertness, providing a small chance of escape.

From what you have described, it seems that the inner response to being poisoned was "freeze". That was covered up later by narratives.


[quote author=Archaea]

Here's what I've come up with regarding my problems: I think that after spending a lot of my life suppressing emotions, specifically my anger, my sub-conscious needs to find a way to express itself. When I originally came to this forum, this need meant that I was looking for attention in an inappropriate way, which lead to getting banned. This caused a transference of my suppressed emotions onto the forum, and since Laura is the main character here, a whole series of internal narratives and projections were created revolving around her.

I can see this rationally because some of the things that irked me regarding Laura are things that I couldn't care less about if it were someone else. However, these projections and narratives aren't based on intellectual energy, but emotional energy. Until these emotions are resolved, I believe these projections and narratives will continue to be generated, if not with this forum and Laura as the focus, then someone else.

The reason why I think I was so eager to jump on here and start telling people what's wrong with them is that the Internet feels safer than in person, and the people here don't respond with threats of violence, which makes this place feel like a safe place to be a jerk.
[/quote]

Quite insightful imo.

 

[luc]

If you think about it, you (or anyone else for that matter) have experienced being uncomfortable many times. It just happens, like it or not. So when it happens you can observe it and be aware that you are uncomfortable. It is useful to focus on body sensations which accompany the discomfort. Why? Because it is the most handy way of preventing thought loops from spinning around. When we let these thought loops driven by discomfort to take control of our behavior, we have internal considering. If we stay with body sensations and observe the discomfort, it goes away after some time.

Discomfort at being wrong is like a small spontaneous fire. If we contain it and do not provide fuel of our own to it, it just goes out in a short time. If we feed it with related thoughts it burns stronger. Then we spread the fire wider if we react on the basis of the discomfort and affect others negatively. It keeps burning longer and stronger with more and more fuel.

Very well said obyvatel. I think it is very important to observe these "fires", as you called them, which can range from a slight discomfort to very serious emotional pain. I think the trick is, as you said, to separate the body sensation and emotional state from the thinking center, which can be achieved by focusing on the body and, most importantly, accepting the sensation, allowing it to fill the entire body and even beyond. Our usual response is to rationalize these feelings or "live them out" with our thinking center, or throwing a tantrum, or withdrawing, or disassociating, or forcing ourselves to think about something else etc., anything BUT staying with the sensation, truly feeling it, embracing it.

What I always find interesting is that once these sensations are isolated and "embraced", we can remember them, remember the specific "taste" of the feeling/sensation, and often we realize that we experience this sensation in connection to seemingly totally unconnected events. For example, I can feel the same sensation when being criticized that I feel when something crosses my way that makes me feel guilty or reminds me of something I screwed up. I can then make the connection and find out what these things have in common and where this sensation may come from (i.e. trauma, upbringing etc.). But most importantly, when I recognize such a sensation and can separate it from the "trigger", I have more options on how to respond to it - I can go against my "auto pilot" and seriously engage System 2.

In the end, I think it's very important to learn to welcome these "bad feelings", to really feel them, and see them as an opportunity for growth. From that perspective, they not only loose their negative power, but are transformed into something positive.

Also, if ever there was an "alarm clock" in the 4th Way sense, these feelings/sensations are it! Whenever such a sensation comes up and I recognize it, I'm "zipped" into reality in an instant, the daydreaming stops, the current little I in control gets subdued to a higher perspective. It really beings you in touch with yourself - sometimes it feels like a little reminder, sometimes like a slap in your face! In any event, it wakes you up, OSIT.

Of course, it's easier said than done, for example I don't always recognize certain sensations and just continue on auto-pilot, and sometimes I recognize what's going on but just can't stop it (this particularly happens when I get angry... sometimes it helps to do some shadow boxing, beat up a pillow or do some physical exercise).

 

[sitting]

From what you have described, it seems that the inner response to being poisoned was "freeze". That was covered up later by narratives.

What I'm curious about, is why he didn't think of calling the cops? Twice?