Massage and Bodywork
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Wow, that looks really interesting. Thanks for sharing! I looked for courses in my area but unfortunately they didn't have dates after 2015, it did however lead me to a great site that offered a host of courses including advanced reflexology which I am very interested in.Gaby said:
They also offer Tui Na massage in Edinburgh which isn't too far from me so I think I will give it a try!
cs21
Padawan Learner
Thank you for your report on that experience Laura ! I heard about it but never try. I tried the Che Nei Tsang last week, focused on the belly. The touch of the therapist was very soft, and there were some good pressure on meridian points at the beginning (including on the thorax) . She also used respiration, expiration in fact, with the throat, like the Ba in the EE process. She works very slowly and focuses her attention on the knots which are made with several layers. The knots would come undone on a layer then would be there on the next deeper layer, very strange to feel, i don't know if i'm clear. It was pretty efficient, and for sure, it's a therapy that must be repeated on time for good results. I'm gonna see for the Tui na massage that's sound very interesting.
Laura, yes the therapeutic components of massage therapy is not the physical manipulation of tissues and that is what all my reading and research has revealed. Also my own clinical practice has led me very directly to this conclusion.
Effective massage that really helps, is an energy modality and these practitioners some knowingly some unknowingly are practicing healing. This energetic interaction which I suspect is electromagnetic. Apply a magnetic field to a conductor such as fluids in the bodys fascia and current will flow.
My point is when looking to massage practitioner who has the skills to actualy help people is utilising much much more than what is taught as massage therapy.
I have concerns about the commonly held belief that massage to be effective has to involve deep pressure and intense manipulation and stretching of tissues. This mechanical effort is not therapeutic, the presence of the practitioners energy field coinciding with this is therapeutic.
So what is breaking a spasm? This really is just the shutting down of the message the nervous system has sent to the muscle to be tight. What does this achieve? Relief from that tension and most importantly the opportunity to move and function in a different way that is not dominated by the biomechanical advantage of the 'knotted up" muscle. Movement of tissue, movement of muscle, movement and sliding of nerves is the desired outcome. Direct compression is one tool that should be used intelligently and not just as a matter of course on the entire body. For example my own work I only occasionally use direct pressure the most profound effects are achieved by backing off the pressure using other forces, supporting movement of the tissues that had not been moving. The results are far more profound as tissue trauma is not created alongside the process. None of these techniques I learnt at massage school.
The same effect and greater can be achieved with out causing the high levels of pain and trauma as is practicised in Rolfing. That is not to say that higher pressures to contact deeper structures is not warranted, it is it just is not warranted to try to forcefully then manipulate this tissue. Robert Schleip a leading researcher and Rolfer does go into this topic. Structural integration practices need to evolve beyond the idea of treating the body as a piece of meat that needs tenderising. Practitioners who are working effectively with people already have I believe. What would be helpful is a new understanding of what they actually are effecting and how. Mainly communicating with the nervous system and the body's energy fields.
Just to clarify, I am not concerned about tissue manipulations that are not crushing or forcefully stretching tissue and nerves. Kneading, lifying, shaking , tapotement etc all feel fantastic and are a wonderful communication with the body.
I went for a deep tissue (sports qualified) massage on Friday afternoon and the lady concentrated on my back and shoulders.
For most of the session I felt like I was dissociating or just on drugs, it was SO painful - especially when she was concentrating on the knots in my back. It was bearable though, and something felt like it needed to go.
After she was finished, my nose was blocked, my voice has crackled and I honestly felt like I was drunk. I banged into my car when trying to get in so decided to sit for 10 minutes at least so I could drive back. Later on that night, I just had these insane urges to cry, like someone had just died! it was a weird experience. If I'd start crying, I couldn't stop - I didn't think I had that many tears
Yesterday I was still very sore and nearly broke down over trapping my finger in the freezer. Very delicate!
I definitely recommend a deep tissue massage (Although it's like a detox protocol and isn't pleasant at times) but today I feel really refreshed.
Apparently your body will only release these emotions if it's ready, the recent SOTT show on bodywork really helped me understand it. :)
For most of the session I felt like I was dissociating or just on drugs, it was SO painful - especially when she was concentrating on the knots in my back. It was bearable though, and something felt like it needed to go.
After she was finished, my nose was blocked, my voice has crackled and I honestly felt like I was drunk. I banged into my car when trying to get in so decided to sit for 10 minutes at least so I could drive back. Later on that night, I just had these insane urges to cry, like someone had just died! it was a weird experience. If I'd start crying, I couldn't stop - I didn't think I had that many tears
Yesterday I was still very sore and nearly broke down over trapping my finger in the freezer. Very delicate!
I definitely recommend a deep tissue massage (Although it's like a detox protocol and isn't pleasant at times) but today I feel really refreshed.
Apparently your body will only release these emotions if it's ready, the recent SOTT show on bodywork really helped me understand it. :)
gottathink said:
I think there may be a lot to what you are saying here gottathink. However, I disagree with the idea that massage's main interaction is with the nervous system at a fundamental level. It actually goes much 'deeper' than that (no pun intended). You may be interested the read the work of Dr Robert O Becker and the experiments on bone and collagen networks that he conducted. In summary, Becker found that the body's regenerative system is electrical in nature, and operates via a DC electric current and semiconduction. This system is independent of the nervous system's ionic current information transfer. Bone, protein (namely collagen), DNA and water are semiconductors in the body. They are capable of superconduction across vast portions of the body in extremely short periods of time. Bone and collagen are also piezo-electric, which means that the introduction of mechanical pressure on the structure generates electricity.
Becker presented this in the 60's, and ever since there have been numerous scientists who have built upon this foundation, including Dr Mae Wan-Ho. It also turns out that the "acupuncture meridians" have also been shown the be in-line with 'junction points' within the body's semiconducting system. It has been theorized (and fairly well substantiated) that the piezoelectric effects of touch act to generate electric signals which increase the efficiency of semiconduction within the tissue. I think it is highly possible that this increase of regenerative local DC current is the genuine healing force, and all other chemical effects are merely by-products or outward manifestations of this primitive electrical system. There is an osteopath named Dr Josh Lamaro who operates from this framework, and we are hoping to interview him on the Health and Wellness show over the next couple of weeks. So look out for that in the near future if you are interested.
Here is a recent interview with him:
https://youtu.be/dR-TlwBvFzs
I'm sorry to hear that you had such an intense reaction to the massage Lilyalic. I sure sounds like it did the job though! Hopefully they gave you aftercare advice so that you knew what to expect and could deal with it ok?Lilyalic said:I went for a deep tissue (sports qualified) massage on Friday afternoon and the lady concentrated on my back and shoulders.
For most of the session I felt like I was dissociating or just on drugs, it was SO painful - especially when she was concentrating on the knots in my back. It was bearable though, and something felt like it needed to go.
After she was finished, my nose was blocked, my voice has crackled and I honestly felt like I was drunk. I banged into my car when trying to get in so decided to sit for 10 minutes at least so I could drive back. Later on that night, I just had these insane urges to cry, like someone had just died! it was a weird experience. If I'd start crying, I couldn't stop - I didn't think I had that many tears
Yesterday I was still very sore and nearly broke down over trapping my finger in the freezer. Very delicate!
I definitely recommend a deep tissue massage (Although it's like a detox protocol and isn't pleasant at times) but today I feel really refreshed.
Apparently your body will only release these emotions if it's ready, the recent SOTT show on bodywork really helped me understand it. :)
Foxx
The Living Force
Lilyalic said:After she was finished, my nose was blocked, my voice has crackled and I honestly felt like I was drunk. I banged into my car when trying to get in so decided to sit for 10 minutes at least so I could drive back. Later on that night, I just had these insane urges to cry, like someone had just died! it was a weird experience. If I'd start crying, I couldn't stop - I didn't think I had that many tears
I had a massage experience that was similar to that once, quite some time ago. The massage therapist was working on my back for a while and getting out some knots and I was feeling not so great physically, then she wanted to work on my front (I think the psoas muscle) and had me flip over onto my back and I really thought I was going to vomit. Fortunately I didn't, but for the next massage session I took some detoxing substances ahead of time (alpha lipoic acid and activated charcoal were what I used) since I figured the massage was mobilizing something toxic stored in my muscles and having those in my system ahead of time would help to bind whatever was being released--it did and I didn't feel nearly as bad the second time as the first.
lainey said:
I think it definitely did the job! :)
The lady kept offering me water and whether I wanted to sit down. Suggested I place ice for a few minutes at a time on the back, drink lots of water etc because loads of toxins will be flushing out. She seemed very nice and accommodating!
Foxx said:
That sounds unpleasant! Taking supplements beforehand seems like a good idea. Did you go for sessions frequently?
I was thinking of going again, say every month or 2 months.
Foxx said:
Well you had a lot to detox, listening to the SOTT show really shown that you battled for your health.
I'm glad that it was beneficial for you, but I don't think I could cope with that every week
I'll definitely keep it up for a while though, it's interesting the reactions you get. Combine that with improving the diet/ supplementing and coffee/ probiotic enemas then there's probably much room for improvement. Mentally and physically!
I used to have deep tissue massage once a week for about eighteen months before moving. The sessions were often intense and I regularly used too sit quietly drinking cold water for a while until I felt well enough to drive home. The establishment I went to was very caring and often insisted that I 'sit out' the washed-out-ness before driving home.Lilyalic said:I went for a deep tissue (sports qualified) massage on Friday afternoon and the lady concentrated on my back and shoulders.
For most of the session I felt like I was dissociating or just on drugs, it was SO painful - especially when she was concentrating on the knots in my back. It was bearable though, and something felt like it needed to go.
After she was finished, my nose was blocked, my voice has crackled and I honestly felt like I was drunk. I banged into my car when trying to get in so decided to sit for 10 minutes at least so I could drive back. Later on that night, I just had these insane urges to cry, like someone had just died! it was a weird experience. If I'd start crying, I couldn't stop - I didn't think I had that many tears
Apparently your body will only release these emotions if it's ready, the recent SOTT show on bodywork really helped me understand it. :)
Keyhole said:
Great info Keyhole. I have come across some of this work you but not yet that of Dr Josh Lamaro. I
You have touched on what I have begun to think about.
Yes we do know that bones spark up with piezo-electric effects but piezo-electric effects in connective tissue is a theory. I am not so convinved of this being the actual mechanism which produces healing energy flow. Dr. Lamore in this interview states that pressure on the tissue increases its capacity to carry charge. Not actually cause current flow.
My theory is that it has more to do with magnetic fields being applied to conducting tissues which then stimulate micro-currents in the fluid of connective tissues. So the pressure may increase the capacity of the tissue to carry charge but what then creates current flow?
I actually wonder if it is more about therapist and patient interacting biomagnetic fields that stimulate the current flow in the tissues. I say this as I am trying to interpret what I am sensing when I work. Dr. Lamaro theorises that the energy is actually transferred from the practitioner to the patient. Maybe, to some extent. I disagree; I think the energy is contained within the person and when it comes into contact with a magnetic field the energy begins to flow. Some pressure intelligently applied enhances the effects.
All of this still is communicating with the central nervous system. All of these effects, even at an energetic level will communicate to the body somehow. The fascia has receptors within in that communicate to the central nervous system. The brain will still be translating things to the body. An individual in how they think and act on a deeper level will still always override the effects they experience from any interraction with outside forces, be it mechanical, energetic, magnetic, biological etc. Healing will only occur in an individual when on some level they have decided it to be so. So I do still think that what ever the means of the effects of massage are what happens in the body will be determined by the bodys operating system. Hence all the effects of massage therapy will be interpretted by the central nervous system and then the response within the body dictated.
Do you see what I am meaning? So I am referring to senses beyond our superficial five senses feeding in to eventuallt the central nervous system.
Otherwise could we not then all go see someone and be healed with little effort of our own?
Forgot to say also,
that the feelings of fatigue experienced by practitioners that Dr. Lamaro talks about could be something different to, transfer of energy from practitioner to patient that depletes the practitioner.
I think that what could be or also could be happening is that the practitioner takes on the "charge" that is held by the patient, ie it is transferred by the patient to the practitioner who then needs to ground and earth this charge.
For one example: I worked last year with a lady who was experiencing significant emotional turmoil due to a death in the family. My first instinct was to hold her left toe. Immediately a surging of some kind (describable as a sense of energy transfer) felt like it came flowing out of her toe downloading, so to speak into me. After a few minutes I had to excuse myself whilst I went outside barefoot and stood outside with the hose wetting the earth beneath my feet. Five minutes or so later I felt okay to go back to my client and continue with the session.
I do not feel I am transferring energy to my clients, I do feel my work facilitates "movement" that they are primed for. This movement (of: muscle, joint, cell, fluid, current, thoughts etc) may or may not be healing for them, it depends on where they are at. This is all a very simple explanation for the complexity of what is happening within people, because each person is so unique and stuck or not stuck in their own way. Generally all people who are asking for help are ready for healing, well thats my experience. Problems occur when one touches or works with people who are not themselves specifically asking for help. I have made the mistake of working with people who family or friends have asked me to help and it does not go well. The movement created within them can be traumatic and cause great pain. This has been my learning and a very hard lesson to learn.This is a whole other story. What this illustrated to me is that healing occurs in only those who themselves are ready to heal it is they themselves and their nervous systems that rule the show.
that the feelings of fatigue experienced by practitioners that Dr. Lamaro talks about could be something different to, transfer of energy from practitioner to patient that depletes the practitioner.
I think that what could be or also could be happening is that the practitioner takes on the "charge" that is held by the patient, ie it is transferred by the patient to the practitioner who then needs to ground and earth this charge.
For one example: I worked last year with a lady who was experiencing significant emotional turmoil due to a death in the family. My first instinct was to hold her left toe. Immediately a surging of some kind (describable as a sense of energy transfer) felt like it came flowing out of her toe downloading, so to speak into me. After a few minutes I had to excuse myself whilst I went outside barefoot and stood outside with the hose wetting the earth beneath my feet. Five minutes or so later I felt okay to go back to my client and continue with the session.
I do not feel I am transferring energy to my clients, I do feel my work facilitates "movement" that they are primed for. This movement (of: muscle, joint, cell, fluid, current, thoughts etc) may or may not be healing for them, it depends on where they are at. This is all a very simple explanation for the complexity of what is happening within people, because each person is so unique and stuck or not stuck in their own way. Generally all people who are asking for help are ready for healing, well thats my experience. Problems occur when one touches or works with people who are not themselves specifically asking for help. I have made the mistake of working with people who family or friends have asked me to help and it does not go well. The movement created within them can be traumatic and cause great pain. This has been my learning and a very hard lesson to learn.This is a whole other story. What this illustrated to me is that healing occurs in only those who themselves are ready to heal it is they themselves and their nervous systems that rule the show.