Music and the Work

[BHelmet]

Another thing concerning "modern music" I'd like to share:

Here's a video from a guy who recreates part of a modern mainstream hit using a simple apple software - turns out that in those "hits", the producers just clicked together pre-made sound files that came with the software! IMHO, this shows the stunning lack of creativity in modern mainstream music, no wonder if we assume that psychopaths are involved:

Now compare this to the work on Lennon's "Imagine":

On another note,

Muse

...maybe this becomes clearer if you compare for example the Muse songs/videos (e.g. "Uprising") with this John Lennon gem:

I think Lennon speaks simple truth to people's hearts, while Muse is fancy, dark and violent, and not empowering at all, quite the opposite actually.

1. The whole sampling/sampled music thing is another good example of the lack of creativity, or perhaps the stifling of creativity in music.

2. As I said, I have a love/hate relationship with Muse. I think Bellamy is truly creative. e.g., Knights of Cydonia is kind of hilarious in a way: Spaghetti western, to Euro-disco to head-banger in one fell swoop. Or the songs that incorporate classical. I have not heard anyone push the envelope like they do in decades. The other aspect I have to respect are his vocal stylings - this guy holds NOTHING back - he is not trying to be liked and is pushing himself to his limits. Whether I like the results or not, I have to respect that. Another thing I respect: I have seen them live a couple times - with the wife and kids, no less. His shows have none of the pandering to the rabble: cursing, sexual innuendo, drug references that you usually get live. A clean show, not even PG13. That is also kind of amazing as well, and a good sign.

What bothers me about Muse - yes they can be hard to listen to (but I excuse this as the music being a reflection of the world - kind of like SoTT - the news and the world is not pretty in so many ways) And I suppose, it is a shock to my buffers, which is not always a bad thing.

I am troubled by many of their earlier songs that reflect a bizarre somewhat sinister and deranged inner struggle, but, haven't we all been there at some point? I am not a fan of the Queen veneer that is present, but that is just a taste thing and everybody does have influences that got them started on a path. (it is also a studio thing and does not come across live)

Hm - this sounds like an Apologia - What REALLY bothers me is that I can't decide whose 'side' they are on. A nagging feeling of doubt I can't put my finger on quite yet. Maybe they just need to find this web site/4th way info etc!?

As for Lennon Imagine, can't disagree with that one...and my middle son, loves both Working Class Hero and Muse as well, so go figure. Perhaps Muse is a product for the multi-distracted younger set? I am an old fart trying to keep up and open to it all.

Thanks again, so much, for the thoughtful, detailed post.

 

[davey72]

Another thing concerning "modern music" I'd like to share:

Here's a video from a guy who recreates part of a modern mainstream hit using a simple apple software - turns out that in those "hits", the producers just clicked together pre-made sound files that came with the software! IMHO, this shows the stunning lack of creativity in modern mainstream music, no wonder if we assume that psychopaths are involved:

That makes sense. I remember an article on SOTT detailing how the popularity of a song can be predicted as it will light up the pleasure centers in the brain. The words and/or musicians are meaningless now.

 

[BHelmet]

Thanks for participating. I have focused so much attention on music as a kind of parallel reality almost since I can't remember.

Parallel reality is a good way to describe it, I think. It took years for me to aknowledge that many/most people didn't feel the impact of music as acutely as I felt I did, and then realizing the extent of one's automated responses to music and other peoples reaction to it.

LOL, I remember trying to hide the fact I DETESTED Robert Plant's vocals, hence, I just tolerated Led Zeppelin and kept my mouth shut lest I be thought a totally uncool prissy face! (the Led Zep I era, no less)

Sacrilege! I would undoubtedly have thought of you as a little crazy if I was told this in my youth. :)

I agree with you! And I was MORE than a little crazy.

I still play head games with what I put on my Ipod. Not for what anyone else thinks, just what I want to expose myself to. I guess it is a balance thing as usual. Every so often, I even like to spin the radio dial to hear what people are being subjected to. It never ceases to amaze me.

I do this too, and in earlier years worried about damage being done by listening to "dark" music - Black Sabbath and so on.
I had to work with myself to come to appreciate that one can find something in any kind of sound, with a big exception for me being the boring, flat, repetitive, drugged sounds of today, that are so narrowly focused on one particular feeling or desire and sounds constrained and choked. No joy of playing, just manufactured sounds designed to herd people into a moronic state of mind. (I suspect that part of this attitude is down to my own judgemental attitude, as my kids frequently point out).

Have you played them Ironman, War Pigs? No doubt! And what was their reaction? Good point about the narrow focus on one emo these days, and usually a dysfunctional/negative/bummer one, at that. A lot of that gets communicated by the vocalist, I think. I am not put off by the sound until they start singing in that depressed, deranged drone. I trot out a lot of things when we are driving in the car and subject my kids to it. Some of it stays current and some of it is like: "Dad...Enough!"

There are plenty of outrageously blatant and explicit songs out there that defy belief such as anything by Lady Gaga (I am thinking Pa Pa Poke Er Face - my jaw just about hit the floor when I heard that one)

I am still enough of a snob about these things to refuse to expose myself to all the critters in the charts, so I undoubtedly miss a lot of good music these days on account of not listening to radio or chart music as well.
But I am content listening to the old stuff.

I like to know what my kids are being drenched in. Even if my kids have inherited some of my discernment, I know their friends will listen to whatever is hot or just happens to be on. I feel I need to hear the subliminal and not-so-subliminal messages so I can counteract them with an alternative point of view. Good grief, when my kids were in elementary school, a catholic school no less, they got YMCA played (along with the Chicken Dance, of course) at many school events. I could never get that one! I guess it shows just how asleep some people can be! (OK re WHY catholic school - we were in Hilo, Hawaii and the education environment there is, well, no comment)

And I wouldn't say you are missing all that much by not listening - I view it as kind of like Jedi training - "Here comes a crappy modern song with a catchy beat and negative messages to brainwash us all" - can I maintain balance and perspective - the inner cage of defense?

 

[BHelmet]

One more slant and then I will drop it for a while...maybe.

OK, in terms of self-remembering and recapitulation: what is the first song or couple of songs that you noticed as a child; the youngest age you can remember? I mean, the first song that made you stop and think and reflect and notice yourself and your reaction to the song? Did it affect you later in your life? How did you identify with it? (I guess I should just insert the key phrases for brevity sake)

My answer:

1. Que Sera Sera by Doris Day, 1956 (I was 6 yrs old) - Oh my... I have always been some what fatalistic, was this the cause? (btw, the gender identification did not matter or have an effect)

When I was just a little girl
I asked my mother, what will I be
Will I be pretty, will I be rich
Here's what she said to me.

Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
What will be, will be.

When I was young, I fell in love
I asked my sweetheart what lies ahead
Will we have rainbows, day after day
Here's what my sweetheart said.

Que Sera, Sera, etc

Now I have children of my own
They ask their mother, what will I be
Will I be handsome, will I be rich
I tell them tenderly.

Que Sera, Sera, etc

2. Sixteen Tons by Tennessee Ernie Ford (1955) - whoo boy, a certain pessimistic, stoic, existential pointlessness of life/at war with life - that one sure got me! No bowl of cherries, that is for sure.

(Merle Travis)

Some people say a man is made outta mud
A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store
...
I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Cain't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do you get...etc

 

[WIN 52]

Could it be that the state of mind or trans like state that I go into when singing certain songs is like the slippers? I don't know, but it is intense and makes me feel like I have dumped a bunch of negative crap, in the end.

During Karaoke, whenever I do access this state of mind, the crowd cheers loudly.

 

[BHelmet]

Could it be that the state of mind or trans like state that I go into when singing certain songs is like the slippers? I don't know, but it is intense and makes me feel like I have dumped a bunch of negative crap, in the end.

During Karaoke, whenever I do access this state of mind, the crowd cheers loudly.

Singing can be a tremendous exercise. If done correctly, singing from the diaphragm, it is like EE or Yoga or any breathing exercise, there is a physical component that is measurable: respiration and brain effects. Singing can connect the lower centers to the higher; can link the chakras, especially if the singer is aware. People recognize this on some level depending on their awareness/development. It can really make your being present. It can open a connection with other beings. There are so many levels to this. Even if the words are not clearly understood, there is a deep communication that occurs. Even just the tones being sung have content. e.g., my wife, when she sings, there is this inner sorrow that often comes through that resonates with people. She may not intend that to be the communication, but her inner sorrow connects to that sorrow or longing in others. I think that is part of her essence. My essence is quite different. But there must be something deep within you that comes across that people relate to even if they don't know quite what it is on a conscious level. It does not even have to directly relate to the song being sung. Just some thoughts based on experience and observation.

 

[Tristan]

One more slant and then I will drop it for a while...maybe.

OK, in terms of self-remembering and recapitulation: what is the first song or couple of songs that you noticed as a child; the youngest age you can remember? I mean, the first song that made you stop and think and reflect and notice yourself and your reaction to the song? Did it affect you later in your life? How did you identify with it? (I guess I should just insert the key phrases for brevity sake)

My answer:

1. Que Sera Sera by Doris Day, 1956 (I was 6 yrs old) - Oh my... I have always been some what fatalistic, was this the cause? (btw, the gender identification did not matter or have an effect)

When I was just a little girl
I asked my mother, what will I be
Will I be pretty, will I be rich
Here's what she said to me.

Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
What will be, will be.

When I was young, I fell in love
I asked my sweetheart what lies ahead
Will we have rainbows, day after day
Here's what my sweetheart said.

Que Sera, Sera, etc

Now I have children of my own
They ask their mother, what will I be
Will I be handsome, will I be rich
I tell them tenderly.

Que Sera, Sera, etc

2. Sixteen Tons by Tennessee Ernie Ford (1955) - whoo boy, a certain pessimistic, stoic, existential pointlessness of life/at war with life - that one sure got me! No bowl of cherries, that is for sure.

(Merle Travis)

Some people say a man is made outta mud
A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store
...
I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Cain't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do you get...etc

Jokingly, this song was mentioned in several C's sessions:

Session 11 February 1995
Q: (L) They are not going to tell you something like that. My initial reaction is no, but you may walk away from it someday. (F) Yeah, that's what came to me also. If someone came along and offered you a sewing factory, would you keep on knitting alone at home? (DM) I see what you are saying. Then, what we are doing here might lead to something big? (L) Huge. (SV) I think it already is. (F) The momentum is starting to pick up. It is like the snowball just starting to roll from the top of Mount Everest. (DM) I never fathomed that...

A: Worry not, DM. "Que sera, sera!"

Session 27 January 1996
Q: (PZ) Well, I don't understand. (L) I think it is pretty clear that the things you are experiencing are part of the lessons.

A: Whatever that is... i.e.: que sera sera.

 

[T.C.]

I think the unilevel/multilevel framework applies to music. I think a lot of pop music over the last 60 years appeals to our base level drives, emotions and sensations. And this has got more and more so, until it's got to the point where most chart music is just aural heroin for those who choose to use it.

More 'higher' level music I think comes from a higher place in itself - that those who write, compose, perform it have probably been through multilevel disintegration, acquiring certain knowledge and life experience which make them - in a way - cleaner/purer channels for higher cosmic ideas which come through into our reality in the form that their 'channel' colours it - i.e. as music.

Gurdjieff said there was such a thing as objective music. Like music that can make someone experience an intentionally directed state, but that it didn't have the same effect on everyone because everyone is at different levels of development.

He also said that music (or maybe it was the arts in general? I forget) should not be appreciated using the emotions. This has always troubled me as music has always been a great source of emotional comfort for me.

I truly believe that listening to things as amazing but varied as The Empyrean album by John Frusciante, or Carl Orff's composition for Carmina Burana can literally allow one to experience otherwise inaccessible parts of reality.

Or perhaps, because 'it's all subjective' it resonates with a part of ourselves, allowing us to access things inside us that we can't usually.

Or maybe that's just all the same thing anyway!

 

[HiThere]

Have you played them Ironman, War Pigs? No doubt! And what was their reaction?

Haven't been able to get a firm reaction from them, neither with Ozzy or RJD. I took one of them to BS with Ozzy last year, but it didn't make any impact. It didn't help that Ozzy was really out of tune almost all the time.
Roger Waters made an impression on the eldest with the "the Wall" tour a couple of years ago, so that was heartening.

I like to know what my kids are being drenched in. Even if my kids have inherited some of my discernment, I know their friends will listen to whatever is hot or just happens to be on. I feel I need to hear the subliminal and not-so-subliminal messages so I can counteract them with an alternative point of view. Good grief, when my kids were in elementary school, a catholic school no less, they got YMCA played (along with the Chicken Dance, of course) at many school events. I could never get that one! I guess it shows just how asleep some people can be! (OK re WHY catholic school - we were in Hilo, Hawaii and the education environment there is, well, no comment)

I try to expose the kids to what I think is good or interesting music at home - and Mark Knopfler has really registered. My youngest started crying when listening to Rememberance Day as a 5 year old, because the song raised a lot of emotions in him, although he didn't understand the words. I have listened to and loved Knopfler since 1979 so that was a good thing to observe.
I took another one to a Knopfler concert recently and that was a success - he really appreciated the band and the sound and the lack of distractions from the music. He loves Knopflers "Piper to the End" and got that as the last song, and went home very happy.
So I stay away from chart stuff and have faith in playing the good stuff at home. :)

And I wouldn't say you are missing all that much by not listening - I view it as kind of like Jedi training - "Here comes a crappy modern song with a catchy beat and negative messages to brainwash us all" - can I maintain balance and perspective - the inner cage of defense?

I cannot muster any energy to spend on listening to chart stuff - there is nothing to gain from it to my eyes - kind of choosing to stand under a strong water trough instead of taking one step to either side. :)

 

[HiThere]

I just wanted to share a song from Slash and Lemmy that to me encapsulates the free spirit and rebellion of Lemmy, and demonstrates the man's (Lemmy) refusal to listen to anyone - the patient from hell.
But the lyrics are inspiring and humorous to me, and the song is played very convincingly by Slash and the others.

It is a song I intially struggled to appreciate, because of the obvious escapism and immature rebellion in the lyrics, as well as it being a simple rock 'n roll song with little to offer in the more delicate phrasing department, playing-wise.

But it has grown on me, and I now listen to it and feel the freedom of spirit and will to live to the fullest for a man who has never tried anything but the full rock 'n roll lifestyle.

The song is a few years old, and Lemmy has since then been forced to modify his lifestyle and cut down on the party life, because of several collapses with the onset of diabetes. So his fierce stance in this song has since been moderated - he seems to want to continue to live more than he wants to drink as he used to. :)

https://youtu.be/9XhSyMLHQgc

EDIT: Lyrics

I went to see the doctor
He said you're pretty sick
You got some real bad habits
You'd better stop right quick

I said doctor that's real bad news
Don't know what I'm gonna do

Doctor
There's nothin' wrong with me
Doctor doctor
Can't you see
Doctor
I ain't gonna die
Just write me an alibi

I went to see a shaman
He said you'll be alright
Just keep doin' what you love
Every single night

I said that's what I need to hear
Took away my childish fears

Doctor
You're a stand up guy
Doctor doctor
My oh my
Doctor
You're the one for me
That's the mojo that I need

Don't you know that I feel alright
Doin' what I do
I ain't gonna tow the line
Not till' I turn blue
All I got is one short life
That's what people say
And I ain't gonna waste a second
Doin' what you say

*Solo*

I won't be the one you like
I won't be the boy next door
I won't be the chosen one
That's not what I'm here for
I don't like the way you are
I despise what you hold dear
Don't you try to make me change
I'll haunt you for a thousand years

Doctor
Don't you talk that way
Doctor
Don't you mess my day
Doctor
Stay away from me
Sick is what I'd rather be
Doctor
Doctor doctor death
Doctor
Doctor out of breath
Doctor
I ain't gonna die
Just write me an alibi

 

[BHelmet]

I cannot muster any energy to spend on listening to chart stuff - there is nothing to gain from it to my eyes - kind of choosing to stand under a strong water trough instead of taking one step to either side. :)

For me this is easier than watching movies. Hollywood movies are where I feel that I have to muster up a huge amount of defenses before I indulge; and basically I don't like to go there. So, I can relate to it that way ("Sulu! Shields!! a la Star Trek) . I find movies much more invasive into my personal space. For some reason the emotional and visual manipulation, along with the dialogue (and background music) are harder for me to deal with than just the audio onslaught. Part of it could be a movie is 2 hours of attack while a song is 3 or 4 minutes. Maybe that is it.

 

[HiThere]

I cannot muster any energy to spend on listening to chart stuff - there is nothing to gain from it to my eyes - kind of choosing to stand under a strong water trough instead of taking one step to either side. :)

For me this is easier than watching movies. Hollywood movies are where I feel that I have to muster up a huge amount of defenses before I indulge; and basically I don't like to go there. So, I can relate to it that way ("Sulu! Shields!! a la Star Trek) . I find movies much more invasive into my personal space. For some reason the emotional and visual manipulation, along with the dialogue (and background music) are harder for me to deal with than just the audio onslaught. Part of it could be a movie is 2 hours of attack while a song is 3 or 4 minutes. Maybe that is it.

I too feel that movies are harder to keep from invading ones space, while most chart stuff is just annoying. After a well made but "wrong" movie I can feel invaded and have to spend some time readjusting, while this don't happen with music. I can identify with exposing oneself to the bad stuff - I had a similar experience attending a Slayer gig - a strong feeling of being among people with a different mindset than myself and having my shields up.

 

[Laura]

Earliest songs I remember:

Zip a dee doo dah, from "Song of the South"

Old Man River from "Showboat".

I partly recall snatches of the films as well.

Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah
Zip-A-Dee-A

My oh my, what a wonderful day
Plenty of sunshine heading my way
Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah
Zip-A-Dee-A

Mister bluebird on my shoulder
It's the truth
It's actual
Everything is satisfactual

Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah
Zip-A-Dee-A
Wonderful feeling
Wonderful day

I used to harass my mother to sing Old Man River at bedtime.

Interesting to recall that the two most impressive songs I remember from my early childhood were sung by black men and depicted the plight of black people in the racial US, more or less. One was irrepressibly cheerful and the other a soul wrenching lament.

 

[HiThere]

My earliest memories of songs stem from the early seventies:

El Condor Pasa - Simon and Garfunkel
A Hard Days Night - Beatles
What A Wonderful World - Louis Armstrong
The Prophet's Song - Queen
Far Far Away - Slade

 

[BHelmet]

Earliest songs I remember:

Zip a dee doo dah, from "Song of the South"

Old Man River from "Showboat".

Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah
Zip-A-Dee-A
Wonderful feeling
Wonderful day

I used to harass my mother to sing Old Man River at bedtime.

Interesting to recall that the two most impressive songs I remember from my early childhood were sung by black men and depicted the plight of black people in the racial US, more or less. One was irrepressibly cheerful and the other a soul wrenching lament.

There's the 2 faces of Janus for you! Talk about polar opposites! Also interesting that one is a portrayal of injustice calling to be made right - I would say that is a theme I see in your work and life.

And gosh, isn't that Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah feeling that feels so good a set-up for a fall? I have gotten so conditioned by this that when a movie gets to the 'happy' part, I almost always feel a sense of foreboding and stress and can't really enjoy the happiness.