My cats (and kittens)... all 12 of them

[Fester]

Again, my bad. I was simply making a short answer. I am feeding my cats very well, thank you for asking... oh, wait, you didn't. You simply assumed I wasn't because I didn't include a detailed description of their entire diet for your approval, with appropriate footnotes and links to websites backing me up.

Fester I think Z was partly answering my questions (I was asking though it might not have been obvious)
I'm sorry for hijacking your thread, and also I forgot to say that I think your kitties are beautiful :)

Z, thank you again, I guess there is no way around having to invest in an electrical meat grinder (so many things to buy and so little money) as there is no way I can grind bones by hand for 10 cats..

No worries, Miss K ;)

In the meantime, a decent food processor (mine's a Kambrook 850w, I think it was $60-$70 from Kmart) can handle chopping raw chicken necks into mince and small chunks of bone. I tried giving them the necks whole, but it seemed to me like they didn't like chewing on the whole vertebrae, maybe because they're a little too big for a mouthful and they have poky bits. They are also seem a little less hard and splintery, like the ends of the long bones. At any rate, whizz for 30 seconds, half a kilo at a time, they love it. As for the iodine, I put 1 drop of Lugol's half strength (5%/10%, so 6.25mg) into about 2.5 litres of water. (They have a 3.5 litre container for their water, and i fill it 3/4. I usually re-fill when it's about 1/3, and they get the same reverse-osmosis filtered water that I drink.)
However, none of mine are ill or unhealthy. If any were I would probably add a drop to the ill one's food as well- but I would first verify that it wouldn't hurt them as right now I'm only fairly sure it wouldn't, so I would double check and make sure.

BUT that's me and my cats. I've had all of mine since birth- half of them were born in my bed, the others on my armchair. I know pretty much everything that they've ever eaten or been exposed to. They are all unvaccinated, and have only ever had a worming tablet (once) and a spot-on-the-neck flea treatment, also once each, after trying for months to get rid of them with diatomaceous earth and neem oil. They have never had/needed antibiotics, never been given unfiltered tap water, and have gone from mum's milk to the diet I described above, and have never been ill. I used to, every few months, get them a bag of a grain-free variety of dry food as a treat, but I can't handle the way they act- like they're hard drugs. So the last time was about 4 months ago. Never again.

As your cats are rescues/adopted, I'm assuming you probably have little or no idea of their histories before you, as in how toxified/imbalanced their bodies are from diet/medications/vaccinations, or illnesses/infections/infestations/injuries, of any kind.

This makes me think that it seems likely that, with iodine, cats could experience the same sort of detox or herxheimer reactions that humans do if they have, say, mercury toxicity from too much fish and vaccines, maybe? Or a parasitic infection?

I think you really should chat with a vet first, and, if you go ahead, then observe the results really closely. Also

YARRARRAARRGRAAHBLLEEARGWEROHEWERAHAHAHAHAAA (throws cat in your general direction)

 

[Nienna]

My bad. I was answering a question regarding the cost of feeding them. My cats get roo mince, chicken hearts, chicken liver, fish... I read that site a year or two back. About the only change I had to make was to make a mental note to get some bones for them every now and then.

Unfortunately every now and then is not enough. The P:Ca ratio needs to be balanced all the time.
Always think of their diet in the nature which is whole pray model ( whole mice or whole bird) which we are trying to recreate, they need to have ground bone ( or for cats who used to it - small bone chunks) with every meal. Also feeding any other meats apart from poultry or rabbit on a regular bases should be avoided. Sardines and other small blue fish every now and then is ok - but on the whole feeding fish to cats is not a very good idea.

Again, my bad. I was simply making a short answer. I am feeding my cats very well, thank you for asking... oh, wait, you didn't. You simply assumed I wasn't because I didn't include a detailed description of their entire diet for your approval, with appropriate footnotes and links to websites backing me up.

I'm not doing that now either.

(Btw, cats seem to be atheistic. I sincerely doubt they pray at all, wholly or partially. As for preying, my cats don't do much of that either. They're too well-fed to bother.)

When I wanted to know more, I researched. The website you mentioned was one of the places I went, as a suggestion from here.

I was not asking for dietary advice, nor do I need any. I was estimating how much feeding them cost me in answer to someone else's question. If you had asked if that was all I fed them instead of assuming that this was the case you would have avoided lecturing someone already well-educated on the subject. I certainly don't need to be lectured on the dietary requirements of small obligate carnivores.

[...]
bones for them every now and then.

I apologize up front if I offend but this had me smile thinking about all the blood-fests, fur, leftover parts and lots-o-trophies found when opening the front door many mornings. As well as being food, sometimes seems that killing is a sport. But I can't help but notice that the gizzards or something like that are usually left on the ground. Probably a nasty taste with all that acidic bile i guess. sorry, my bad...

Offended? not at all... You're not making assumptions about my level of ignorance ;)

At my previous address, (close to shopping centre, hungry jacks, 7/11 and with over grown yards) there were rats. Not an infestation, but they were around. Before I found and read that catinfo page, I had only been feeding them roo+chicken heart+chicken liver, and fresh whole sardines once or twice a month. No bones. (I only had 2 then). At that time, if either caught a rat, the most I would find would be the tail, sometimes a bit of fur or a foot- they'd eat everything else. Since I started getting them chicken necks regularly (also the mince is fortified) they stopped eating them, and just left them dead after they'd finished playing with it. They do the same now if they catch a bird. (3 times in the last 6 months, not too bad) Had me wondering if they were maybe supplementing themselves, craving what they were missing.

I'm rather glad Z replied to what you said. You say that you were giving "short answers", but these short answers are misleading. Z's reply will set the record straight for others reading what you post so that they don't make mistakes if they are looking at feeding their pets a raw diet. Just giving short answers may be good for you, but not for those who are reading them. You are not posting in a vacuum. Others are reading your posts. So they need to know all of the details if they are to make good decisions for their own pets. Can you see that?

You seem to be rather surly lately in your response to others when they point out things to you. You do understand what this forum is about, don't you? Since this forum is following the Work, we take it that if you are a member of this forum, you realize that you will be given feedback that will help you better see yourself and to help others.

 

[Joe]

Again, my bad. I was simply making a short answer. I am feeding my cats very well, thank you for asking... oh, wait, you didn't. You simply assumed I wasn't because I didn't include a detailed description of their entire diet for your approval, with appropriate footnotes and links to websites backing me up.

I'm not doing that now either.

(Btw, cats seem to be atheistic. I sincerely doubt they pray at all, wholly or partially. As for preying, my cats don't do much of that either. They're too well-fed to bother.)

When I wanted to know more, I researched. The website you mentioned was one of the places I went, as a suggestion from here.

I was not asking for dietary advice, nor do I need any. I was estimating how much feeding them cost me in answer to someone else's question. If you had asked if that was all I fed them instead of assuming that this was the case you would have avoided lecturing someone already well-educated on the subject. I certainly don't need to be lectured on the dietary requirements of small obligate carnivores.

Life circumstances can put anyone in a bad mood Fester, but it would be appreciated if you would try and not let it spill over into unkind responses to other forum members.

 

[Miss.K]

I think you really should chat with a vet first

Yep will do, I'll update when I get the results

Also

YARRARRAARRGRAAHBLLEEARGWEROHEWERAHAHAHAHAAA (throws cat in your general direction)

Did you just throw a cat at me? -It worked! Now there is another hungry stray outside

 

[Fester]

yes I was being inconsiderate. And a smart ass to Z.

My apologies.

 

[Nienna]

yes I was being inconsiderate. And a smart ass to Z.

My apologies.

That can be very hard to say, Fester. Good for you!

 

[Z...]

yes I was being inconsiderate. And a smart ass to Z.

My apologies.

No harm done, upwards and onwards :)

 

[CNS]

Also

YARRARRAARRGRAAHBLLEEARGWEROHEWERAHAHAHAHAAA (throws cat in your general direction)

Did you just throw a cat at me? -It worked! Now there is another hungry stray outside

Haha! I think this is a reference to The Crazy Cat Lady from The Simpsons. Is that correct Fester?

 

[Al Today]

[...]

[...]
bones for them every now and then.

I apologize up front if I offend but this had me smile thinking about all the blood-fests, fur, leftover parts and lots-o-trophies found when opening the front door many mornings. As well as being food, sometimes seems that killing is a sport. But I can't help but notice that the gizzards or something like that are usually left on the ground. Probably a nasty taste with all that acidic bile i guess. sorry, my bad...

Offended? not at all... You're not making assumptions about my level of ignorance ;)
[..]

You may have misunderstood. My post was speaking to the forum as a group. Not as a message pointed towards an individual.
I know I do need some more communications training in delivering thought.

 

[Miss.K]

This is to ask advice from Z (or other vets here)
In case it is not appropriate to ask in this thread, as it got nothing to do with Festers kitties, then dear Mods, please accept my apologies and separate the thread.

In total there is 6 out of 10 cats having what looks like a cold (runny eyes nose and occasional cough/sneez and sleeping more than usually, but eating normally) 5 of them kittens of approx 7 months, and one adult (who is the only one of them that is vaccinated 1,5 years ago as it was obligatory to get her from a shelter) another approx 10 months old (who had a bad cough and bad eye infection when I got them last August) had a mild eye infection last week or the week before, but seems fine now. (All the kittens had bad eye infection when I got them, but it cleared up after treated)

Then there has been some disease going around all winter, (eye infection/occasional cough) but never as bad as the last week, (one more of the adults also coughed some months ago but has been fine since, and the 1 adult that is sick now has never been sick before)

So while thinking about the whole thing, it struck me that right before they all got so bad (some were a little sick before) I gave them flea protection that they haven't gotten since the fall (but all of a sudden there was flea invasion as weather got very warm here) and it is a new product that should protect for 6 months (also against ticks), called Pestigon, and it says Norbrook too on the pipette I have left (I guess that is the company)
I don't know if it could have something to do with it, as I guess it must be quite strong/poisonous to protect for so long (the ones I have used before is Frontline that only protects for a month)

Anyways I called the vet this morning, and told him the symptoms and he didn't even want to see them, but told me to come by to pick up some medicine. So I have just done that, and the medicine is a powder called Oxitetraciclina Soluble Maymo, and the package says it is for cows, sheep and chickens against sinus infections or chronic respiratory problems, and some things i don't understand, and that it should not be administered to animals with hypersensitivity to Tetracycline, or animals with liver/kidney problems. Possible side effects is superinfection of intestinal flora
(I don't like the sound of that, but maybe it is just me being paranoid)

So I have given them some, but I feel uneasy about it (might also be that I'm hypersensitive due to taking Iodine)
I'm generally afraid of doctors, vets (not you Z) and the medicine industry, and I'm trying to be a good girl and do what the doctor says, but I feel a bit nauseated and dizzy after giving it to them, which might be a light panic attack by the thought of giving them something that might be poisonous, and might be that I started Wormwood walnut clove anti parasite drops and cilantro/clorella heavy metal detox drops today.

But in case that it is not paranoia/detox emotions, I thought I'd ask here if it seems as a safe thing to give to cats?

 

[Z...]

Hi Miss K.
From what you are describing your cats seem to have what we commonly call Cat Flu ( upper respiratory syndrome caused caused by various pathogens- most commonly chlamidia and bordetella, herpesvirus and calicivirus can also be the culprit but in those cases symptoms are more severe then what you are describing).

Your vet did well prescribing oxytetracycline - I would have opted for doxycicline - but they are both very efficient in clearing up respiratory infections in cats and very well tolerated so there is no reason to worry. Just make sure to give them full course of at least 7 - 10 days and get the dosing right ( he should have provided you with instructions for this).
The reason he gave you one for poultry/cattle is probably because it is cheaper but it is essentially the same thing. Just make sure to get the dose right.
Cats can be funny when mixing medicine with food, best is to mix right dose with small quantity of food and make sure they eat all of it so that each cat gets the full dose. Once they finish medicated portion you can give more food.
Hope this helps.

 

[Miss.K]

Thank you Z, it was very helpful,

The vet told me to put a teaspoon in either a liter of water or a kilo of food, but actually didn't say how much pr. cat, and I was in a hurry because the taxi man had to be somewhere else soon (there is only one taximan here) and half dissociated as it often happens when I have to deal with doctors (the vet is actually seemingly nice and probably don't deserve me being afraid of him), so I thought that it would mean to put a teaspoon in a kilo and give them a portion each of how much they usually eat. (I gave them about half of the mixed kilo food between the 6)

I will call him in the morning and ask how many grams of the mixed kilo each cat should get a day.

There was no problem with getting them to eat it (I bought canned cat food to mix it in) not even the one who is delicate with what she eats (all the others are gluttons and will eat almost anything with great pleasure)

To end with a happy note, Coco the 10 months old caught a big rat today and brought it to me as a present

 

[Fester]

Also

YARRARRAARRGRAAHBLLEEARGWEROHEWERAHAHAHAHAAA (throws cat in your general direction)

Did you just throw a cat at me? -It worked! Now there is another hungry stray outside

Haha! I think this is a reference to The Crazy Cat Lady from The Simpsons. Is that correct Fester?

yeah that's the one

 

[Miss.K]

Another question for Z (sorry Fester)

The reason he gave you one for poultry/cattle is probably because it is cheaper but it is essentially the same thing. Just make sure to get the dose right.

I called the vet and asked about the dosage for each cat and he said "what they normally eat" which I would assume is around 200 grams a day (they would like more but then they get fat)
So I just wanted to make sure that this dose sounds right to you? (one teaspoon in a kilo food and then around 200 grams for each)
Thanks

 

[Laura]

I hope all these cats are neutered.