Session 4 April 2015

[cubbex]

... but don't we want to be STO-candidates?

To begin with, STO is not an end but an attribute. One stemming from a particular state of being. Furthermore, it's a conditional attribute ... requiring activation. Only when asked does it properly manifest. Giving "help"--not requested--is really self importance. And in my opinion, this happens more often than you think. Even when it's only thoughts and not deeds.

I disagree again sitting. Says who is not an end? are you an STO person to know what STO is?

For me, it is an end indeed. An end and a natural preference. If I wait for life to make me STO I may never become one, a choice has to be made.

Shia Lebeuf video may fit here:

https://youtu.be/cxCCp3nbCEk

JUST DO IT !!

 

[goyacobol]

... but don't we want to be STO-candidates?

To begin with, STO is not an end but an attribute. One stemming from a particular state of being. Furthermore, it's a conditional attribute ... requiring activation. Only when asked does it properly manifest. Giving "help"--not requested--is really self importance. And in my opinion, this happens more often than you think. Even when it's only thoughts and not deeds.

I disagree again sitting. Says who is not an end? are you an STO person to know what STO is?

For me, it is an end indeed. An end and a natural preference. If I wait for life to make me STO I may never become one, a choice has to be made.

Shia Lebeuf video may fit here:

https://youtu.be/cxCCp3nbCEk



JUST DO IT !!

Prometeo,

I don't think determination and willpower are exclusive to STO behavior (which could be considered an attribute I think). And then determination and willpower are attributes too. So, I think sitting is just trying to break the concept down to some of the components that may determine what really determines what STO really means.

Taking the situation into account I think is an important part of the picture. Setting your goal or aim to be STO can be a choice but then continually learning what that means is not so easy I think.

Until we consider the situation and whether we are giving a "service" that is asked for how do we JUST DO IT ?

The Cs have indicated that STS and STO blends at the consortium level. They have also mentioned that they have sometimes given assistance to the Orion STS group when "asked" and when it didn't go against their own principles.

I think trying be STO is much like the Star Trek idea of the Prime Directive. I have seen some shows where keeping that rule has been very difficult.

https://youtu.be/4mH-L6UCCAE

 

[riclapaz]

... but don't we want to be STO-candidates?

I assume all will say YES. But lurking beneath is a problem.

I have a sense these 3 simple letters have become a catch phrase. A tag one wears, a shield even. With presumption that once said -- is e'nuf said. Everybody's happy.

But truth is a great deal needs to be added, before it's true meaning becomes clear.

To begin with, STO is not an end but an attribute. One stemming from a particular state of being. Furthermore, it's a conditional attribute ... requiring activation. Only when asked does it properly manifest. Giving "help"--not requested--is really self importance. And in my opinion, this happens more often than you think. Even when it's only thoughts and not deeds.

At my current level of awaremess, I see STS and STO bearing a strange relationship. (And not as exact opposites.) It's through a true negation of the former that the other gains it's potential, a conditional potential. It may never even manifest (exist)--if never asked. Yet it's talked about as if it's omnipresent. That it is not.

I think Nienna, is using the word "candidate" for which all of us would be an end, and the attribute would come once one has taken the decision to be STO, during the thousand years mentioned by the C's, I think even then it might be an attribute of being.

Just my thoughts

 

[goyacobol]

... but don't we want to be STO-candidates?

I assume all will say YES. But lurking beneath is a problem.

I have a sense these 3 simple letters have become a catch phrase. A tag one wears, a shield even. With presumption that once said -- is e'nuf said. Everybody's happy.

But truth is a great deal needs to be added, before it's true meaning becomes clear.

To begin with, STO is not an end but an attribute. One stemming from a particular state of being. Furthermore, it's a conditional attribute ... requiring activation. Only when asked does it properly manifest. Giving "help"--not requested--is really self importance. And in my opinion, this happens more often than you think. Even when it's only thoughts and not deeds.

At my current level of awaremess, I see STS and STO bearing a strange relationship. (And not as exact opposites.) It's through a true negation of the former that the other gains it's potential, a conditional potential. It may never even manifest (exist)--if never asked. Yet it's talked about as if it's omnipresent. That it is not.

I think Nienna, is using the word "candidate" for which all of us would be an end, and the attribute would come once one has taken the decision to be STO, during the thousand years mentioned by the C's, I think even then it might be an attribute of being.


Just my thoughts

Yes I think sitting is pointing out an important detail:

To begin with, STO is not an end but an attribute. One stemming from a particular state of being.

Until we choose what I think of as the direction towards STO it never has a chance to become a significant part of our "being".

And the the "thousand years" adjustment period mentioned by the Cs kind of supports the idea of choosing to grow towards an STO "state of being".

Somewhere they indicate you are free to go from STS to STO or STO to STS as you choose.

I hate to repeat myself but I think my previous post also relates to this.

The Cs have indicated that STS and STO blends at the consortium level. They have also mentioned that they have sometimes given assistance to the Orion STS group when "asked" and when it didn't go against their own principles.

I think trying be STO is much like the Star Trek idea of the Prime Directive. I have seen some shows where keeping that rule has been very difficult.

https://youtu.be/4mH-L6UCCAE

 

[riclapaz]

Somewhere they indicate you are free to go from STS to STO or STO to STS as you choose.

Hi goyacobol i'm not so sure I want to switch, STO to STS , if I remember correctly, the Cs once mentioned that STO is elected, there is no "desire" to switch to STS.

 

[sitting]

And the the "thousand years" adjustment period mentioned by the Cs kind of supports the idea of choosing to grow towards an STO "state of being".

Somewhere they indicate you are free to go from STS to STO or STO to STS as you choose.

I don't think that's accurate.

They said in 4th D, one can go from STS to STO. But never(?) the other way around. It implies an inherent "better-ness" of one choice over the other. Hence by choice eventually, vanquishing any desire for that inferior state. Maybe it's due to a final recognition of Truth.

Another possible interpretation is that perhaps full STO really is dependent on full negation of STS. In increments most likely. But wiped clean in the end. Gone. With no further choice required. That would also be a reasonable explanation why it does not return.

(The two above may really be the same but I don't think so at this point.)

In either case, they said the matter gets settled by 6th D. STO reigns, and only reflections of STS remain. For balance.

My point previously was to suggest that dissolving STS inclinations may need to proceed at same pace as acquiring STO. The two tied together in some fashion. Somehow one giving rise to the other. And this may have implications on how we do things in real life.

I could of course be wrong. FWIW.

 

[T.C.]

Here's the relevant transcript:

Q: (L) Okay, let's take a short break...
[break] Now, guys, I guess you have been
listening to our discussion and you listened to
JR read the paragraph from the article about
4th density experience being the highest level
of wishful thinking, that wishful thinking
becomes reality... (J) Or did I take it out of
context?
A: Close. STS.
Q: (L) So, STO wishful thinking...
A: STO does not wishfully think.
Q: (L) Well, how does STO think? (T)
Responsibly... (L)[experiencing acute
pinching feeling at nape of neck] God! You
guys are doing strange things to my body...
A: Helpful and balanced. Wishes are strictly
STS.
Q: (L) So, acceptance of experience in the
sense of just allowing things to happen and
responding in a balanced and helpful way is
an STO response or experience in 4th
density, is that correct?
A: Close.
Q: (L) And therefore, seeing things moving
past such as what I saw by my window, and
responding to them basically in an open,
curious, and allowing way would have been
an STO response, is that correct?
A: Maybe.
Q: (T) It depends on how you respond
curiously. (T) The Lizzies are hanging out in
4th density too, and they are not STO, are
they?
A: Correct.
Q: (T) So, they are not having STO helpful,
responsible..
A: True.
Q: (T) So, in 4th density, both types can still
happen?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) The desired type is the STO type
thinking...?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) But STS thinking is also available if
that is the way you decide to go when you get
there?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) This of course limits you in your
ability to move up to 6th density?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) Once you are in 4th density, if you
choose STS, can you change it to STO?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) So you can move back and forth as
you so desire and it is all still free will?
A: If you move from STS to STO in 4th
level, you don't move back.
Q: (T) Once you are STS in 4th density you
have to stay there? (L) No. (J) If you move
from STS to STO in 4th density you don't go
back to STS, you stay at STO, is that correct?
(T) That's what I mean, once you have
decided to do STO, that's where you stay
because you don't have any desire to go back
to STS?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) So, it is not so much that you don't
have a choice; it is just that you don't want to
go back to STS?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) So if you move up and do what the
Lizards are doing, then you continue to do
that until you get tired of it or see different,
or become enlightened and then move to STO
and then that's where you will want to stay?
A: Open.
Q: (T) Can you move from STO back to
STS? I know you said you can't, but that's
because you choose not to?
A: Natural factors prohibit this.
Q: (L) So, I guess that once you get to STO
natural factors, the nature of that position is
that you just simply don't... it just doesn't
happen.

 

[riclapaz]

Thanks TC , i was also seeking this session :P

 

[goyacobol]

Somewhere they indicate you are free to go from STS to STO or STO to STS as you choose.

Hi goyacobol i'm not so sure I want to switch, STO to STS , if I remember correctly, the Cs once mentioned that STO is elected, there is no "desire" to switch to STS.

Darn, I was hoping you would come to the dark side!

I think you know I am kidding here. ;)

 

[cubbex]

I am re reading Mouravieff because the cs' said there is the alchemical work, he mentions the concept of relativity and that one impression takes 0.0001 of a human breathing, or something like that. He then mentions and he admits he doesn't really know what some of these concept means:

The principle of Relativity was known from the earliest times. The apostle Paul said: 'One day before the Lord is as a thousand years'. In the prayer of Moses we read: 'For in Thy sight a thousand years are like yesterday... like a watch in the night'. With the Gnostics we find a similar indication, drawn, as it seems, from the same source: 'A day of light is a thousand years of the world'.

Is this that STO period? maybe one instant, an instant that last for the eternity because that instant has changed you for life?

 

[goyacobol]

Thanks TC , i was also seeking this session :P

riclapaz,

I apologize for not being accurate in my memory. I also thank T.C. for finding that quote. I do remember reading the part about once choosing STO you don't have the desire to return to STS (after seeing it again of course).

I think the session that made me think it was not a once and done deal is this one for the 1000 year adjustment period:

Session 7 January 1995

Q: (L) So, for a thousand years we will be living as physical beings in 4th density... so to speak...
making this transition during this period... and, by the time it is over we will have done away with our
physical appetites?
A: Close. Some will be there at the beginning, others will need more "time."
Q: (T) So, when we are on the 4th density, we are still in the physical, and we will still be consuming,
will we then be consuming that energy from 3rd density, the orgasmic energy, or something like that?
A: Some.
Q: (D) Even if we are STO?
A: Not if completely STO.

I guess I am just trying to understand what being "completely STO" means and how and when you finally reach that state.

I suppose I may "need more "time." ".

I get in trouble every time I don't just provide a quote instead of trying to paraphrase or use my deteriorating memory.

 

[sitting]

I guess I am just trying to understand what being "completely STO" means and how and when you finally reach that state.

I suppose I may "need more "time." ".

It's possible STO may not be defined by what is IS ... but by what it is NOT.

That's my current understanding. It may be defined by the total absence (negation) of self. (Self as in self importance. Or maybe even self as self identity. But this is tricky. Even if partly supported by the idea of "4th D awareness as being in union with all other objects.")

If the above is true, the attainment process is more a "cleansing within" (inner component of Work) than one of "reaching for without." The former simultaneously & naturally giving rise to the desire result.

This also fits in somewhat with their description of how in 4th D STO once attined, has no desire for falling back. First due to "choice,"--and later due to "natural factors."

FWIW.

PS
If this sounds like mumbo-jumbo, it's maybe because they've sort of led us in that direction. Into Alice in Wonderland territory. It confuses me often.

 

[Ðekel]

[..]
It's possible STO may not be defined by what is IS ... but by what it is NOT.

That's my current understanding. It may be defined by the total absence (negation) of self. (Self as in self importance. Or maybe even self as self identity. But this is tricky. Even if partly supported by the idea of "4th D awareness as being in union with all other objects.")

If the above is true, the attainment process is more a "cleansing within" (inner component of Work) than one of "reaching for without." The former simultaneously & naturally giving rise to the desire result.

[..]

This is my current understanding as well.

Maybe instead of "total absence of self", the identity expands and becomes inclusive.
The body becomes everything as opposed to only "my body". Then there could be One body.
This is sort of like a body cell being aware that it is part of the whole organism.
And a body cell, in a way, is the whole.. The genetics in it are complete to create another almost identical organism.

If this sounds like mumbo-jumbo, it's maybe because they've sort of led us in that direction. Into Alice in Wonderland territory. It confuses me often.

As for mumbo jumbo.. Not really. I, for one, find your style of explanation to be very comprehensible.

It's not clear though who the "they" is that you referred to in the above quote box ?

 

[SeekinTruth]

Maybe becoming totally STO is simply part of the growing understanding, being, and faith that when one gives all to those who ask, one WILL get what they need from other STO beings too. In other words, there's no fear of losing anything by giving all, when such understanding has become an integral part of your being.

Also, I've gotten the impression from what the C's have said that physical survival is easier in 4D than in 3D, but things seem to point to, at the same time, that everything else on the soul level becomes much more intense (including lessons, etc.). Kinda makes sense in light of what the C's have said about being embodied having a great strain on the soul. The more of the physical limitations illusion is removed as a result of increasing awareness, the more the soul aspects come into their own? Hope that made sense.

 

[sitting]

If this sounds like mumbo-jumbo, it's maybe because they've sort of led us in that direction. Into Alice in Wonderland territory. It confuses me often.

It's not clear though who the "they" is that you referred to in the above quote box ?

Perhaps this is more clear:

If this sounds like mumbo-jumbo, it's maybe because the C's have sort of led us in that direction. Into Alice in Wonderland territory. It enlightens AND confuses me often.

FWIW.