The Believing Brain and C's clues...

[RedFox]

This topic has been on my mind, especially listening to the last Health and Wellness show on precious snowflakes. The point was brought up that perhaps the precious snowflakes don't have an internal locus of control.

I can see how that would work - something doesn't go your way, throw a tantrum, an external authority takes control of the situation.
An internal authority/locus of control would never be developed if this strategy worked most of the time. The person would be in a constant state of (subconscious) fear of powerlessness, fear of being without an external authority/power and boiling emotions ready to demand the authority take action.
Perhaps someone worked out how to turn neurotics with the potential for internal authority into authoritarian followers?

I think we all have parts of our lives and situations we feel powerless over, that we may then have learned to habitually ignore.

What is interesting in some cases is the apparent complete inversion of assessing reality - feeling you should be able to control the things that are uncontrollable (magical/wishful thinking) and feeling the things that are controlable are in fact uncontrollable (and thus ignoring it).

How to gain some control?

The Secret To Emotional Control Most People Don’t Know
http://www.spring.org.uk/2016/11/secret-emotional-control.php

Better emotional control is linked to lower levels of depression and anxiety.

The key to healthy emotional control is to be flexible, new research finds.

People with lower levels of depression and anxiety tend to vary their emotional control strategy successfully depending on whether the situation can be explained.

Dr Peter Koval, one of the study’s authors, said:

“Our results caution against a ‘one strategy fits all’ approach, which may be tempting to recommend based on many previous findings regarding reappraisal as a strategy for regulating emotion.

Simply using any given emotion regulation strategy more (or less) in all situations may not lead to the best outcomes — instead, contextually-appropriate emotion regulation may be healthier.”

For the research, people were tracked over a week.

They were asked to indicate how they managed their emotions and how much control they had over the situation.

People with the highest levels of mental health tended to change their strategy more based on how much control they had.

When they had less control — in other words, they couldn’t change things — they tended to reappraise the situation.

Reappraisal involves thinking about a situation in a different way.

E.g. “I’ve been rejected romantically, but at least I tried, maybe next time I’ll be more lucky.”

But when they had more control — in other words, they could do something about the situation — they tended to avoid thinking differently.

The study’s authors write:

“We found that people with higher well-being increased their use of reappraisal as contexts became less controllable, whereas individuals with lower well-being showed the opposite pattern.” {this is the inversion}

The reason reappraisal is bad when you have control, is that it stops you doing something about the situation.

The study’s authors explain:

“When a situation can be directly changed, reappraisal may undermine the adaptive function of emotions in motivating action.”

When the situation can be changed, it is better to let your emotions — whatever they may be — motivate that change, rather than trying to change the emotions.

When the situation can’t be changed, however, it is better to try and change the emotion.

The study was published in the journal Psychological Science
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2016/10/12/0956797616669086

Well being coming from diet, health and (most importantly) how much control you feel you have over your life. So that can be a catch 22.
Life is uncontrollable -> poor well being -> inverted assessment of what is/isn't controllable -> life is uncontrollable (because of trying to control the wrong things).

Some practical steps:
_http://www.thepositiveencourager.global/l-helping-person-develop-locus-control/

L is for Helping A Person Develop Their Locus Of Control

Imagine you are helping a person to shape their future. You may be a teacher, coach, counsellor, mentor or another kind of helper.

Different people use different approaches to help a person in such a situation. Whichever approach they take, however, at some point it will call for the person taking responsibility for making things happen.

There are many tools for helping a person to strengthen their internal locus of control. This is a term coined by Julian Rotter in the 1950s. Let’s explore what this means.

Clarifying a person’s locus of control​

A person with an internal locus of control believes they can play a large part in shaping their future. They believe that, whilst external events may bring challenges, they can take an internal decision regarding how they respond to such events.

Such people are positive yet realistic. They focus on what they can control in life, rather than worry about what they can’t control. They say things like:

“I can take responsibility … I can make things happen … I can recover from setbacks.”

People with an external locus of control believe that things happen to them. They often feel that their happiness depends on external events and how the world treats them

Other people may try to help the person, but their suggestions fall on unreceptive ground. The person often finds a reason why the ideas won’t work. They keep saying: “Yes, but …”

If you wish, try tackling the exercise on this theme. This invites you to look at your own life and do the following things.

Describe extent to which you feel able to shape your future. Rate this on a scale 0 – 10.

People who score more than 5/10 are more likely to have an internal locus of control. Those who score less may have an external locus of control.

Describe the specific things you can do to, if you wish, maintain or increase the rating.

Helping a person to develop their internal locus of control​

Imagine that a person has asked for your help. They may be facing a challenge, aiming to overcome a tragedy or wanting to improve their performance.

As mentioned earlier, whichever approach you use it will involve the person taking responsibility. It will call for them saying: “I can …” rather than “I can’t …”

How can you help them to take this step? One approach is to share positive models and practical tools they can use to achieve their picture of success.

People can use such knowledge to reach their goals, but frequently it does not work to simply expose them to such information. Why? It is often transmitted to them from an ‘outside in’ perspective.

The person is told to be positive, apply a particular technique or behave in a certain way. Whilst they might see the intellectual sense in adopting the advice, they still do not feel they can move forward.

So what works? There are several basic rules that work in development.

The person must feel in their gut that:

They want to shape their future.

They can shape their future.

They know how to shape their future.

Bit of a catch 22 - you need some sense of (internal emotional history of) control in order to gain more. Perhaps seeing that your view may be inverted could help?

How can you help them to take these steps? Different people use different approaches.

My own work often involves using The Positive Approach. This aims to provide practical tools that people can use to achieve their picture of success.

Whilst providing practical strategies that work in the real world, the approach is also based on an organic view of development. It includes the following beliefs.

People already have within them the seeds of development.

People already have strengths and successful patterns that have used in the past to achieve their goals.

People can be helped to build on these strengths and successful patterns – plus add other skills – to develop and achieve their goals.

The approach starts by helping people to clarify their picture of success. It then focuses on tapping their inner strength.

There are many ways to help people to take this step. One method is to ask a person questions around the following themes. These can be tailored to match the challenge that the person is facing.

Questions That Can Help A Person To Focus On Their Inner Strength​

When have you shown positive spirit? When have you overcome difficult challenges successfully? When have you performed superb work? When have you achieved peak performance?

What did you do right then? What were the principles you followed? What did you actually to do to reach your goals? How can you follow some of these principles in the future?

Bearing in mind the challenge you face now, how can you build on what you know works? You have succeeded in the past. How can you follow some of those principles – plus maybe add other skills – to tackle this challenge?

Looking ahead, what is the first goal you want to achieve? What will be the benefits of achieving the goal? How can you do your best to achieve the goal? How can you get an early success?

Looking further ahead, what are the key strategies you can follow to give yourself the greatest chance of success? How can you encourage yourself on the journey? How can you focus on getting three successes each day?

You will have your method of helping a person to develop their inner strength and locus of control. Whichever approach you use, however, it can also be useful to invite them to do the classic exercise on Controlling The Controllables.

Looking at my own life, for example, I did this exercise when seeking treatment for prostate cancer.

I could control my attitude – such as focusing on my purpose in life – the steps I took to exploring various treatments and the decision about which treatment to embark upon.

I could not control that I had been diagnosed with the illness. I was fortunate, however, inasmuch that I had been doing annual health checks. This flagged up the illness at an early stage, thus increasing the chances of success.

It was then up to me to build on what I could control and manage what I couldn’t. This eventually led to seeking out and getting non-invasive treatment from a superb surgeon. So far the outcome has been successful.

You will have your own approach and exercises for helping a person to develop their inner locus of control. Helping them to take these steps increases the chances of success.

If you wish, try tackling the exercise on this theme. This invites you to do the following things.

Describe the specific situation in which you would like to help a person to, if appropriate, develop their locus of control.

Describe the specific things you can do to help them to develop their locus of control.

I'm curious what peoples score out of 10 is. Mine would be a 5 right now.

 

[Archaea]

I can only think about the placebo and nocebo effects which in some cases are more powerful than medicine.
The catch-22 is how can we be aware of these things and also benefit from them?
I can only guess that maybe just the idea of keeping a good intent in mind by doing a mantra, etc would cancel out or reduce the negative "ritual restricts" as the C's have said in the past.

If what the C's say is true, do you think it's possible to alter reality and physicality with a placebo? If we could somehow show that reality reflects belief then we could sell pills that can literally do anything, we can have pills for:

-Influencing a person's locus of control
-Making people more attractive to the opposite sex
-Preventing peoples cars from braking down

Anything the heart desires can be made a reality by swallowing a little pill. Mantras are probably cheaper though.

Maybe that's the problem with these black magic mumbo jumbos (my nickname for them after seeing the Podesta/Clinton craziness) is that they depend too much on it, without trying to see that they are not really controlling anything and in fact giving away their free will to some imaginary higher power. I sometimes think the 'devil' they sacrifice to is their own weakness, their own fearful and weak predator's mind. I'm not discounting a true higher power evil, but I think on this level, like the UFOs it seems like they cannot directly step in unless we weaken our own "free will" (or frv?) to the point of having no energy of our own?

I think if we live in a free will universe then it's not possible to truly weaken someone's free will. I think you can get them to use their free will to believe that they have weakened free will, but they'll always still ultimately have the choice of what to believe. I think the black magic mumbo jumbo's are just sell outs.

I think it's a problem when they fail to use critical thinking with those voices. Same goes for our own thoughts, even if we didn't hear voices. In that case, like the work teaches, our own thoughts are sometimes incorrect!

I agree, I think it's a common mistake, one that I used to make as well, for someone to think that every thought that passes through their head is correct. I think this is related to self-importance, which demands that the everything about the self, which includes all thoughts, is important.

If the brain is capable of thinking all thoughts, it stands to reason that some of them will be false. So a good idea would to not get attached to any of them, no matter how appealing they may seem.

Here's an interesting sott article on the Bicameral Brain which also can just do voices:
https://www.sott.net/article/292451-Third-Man-Factor-The-hallucinatory-effects-of-survival#
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)

I think that's interesting, so we could speculate that if hearing voices can be a natural part of the human condition then it should be possible to switch the voices on and off at will simply by believing that it's possible to switch them on and off at will.

The person must feel in their gut that:

They want to shape their future.

They can shape their future.

They know how to shape their future.

Bit of a catch 22 - you need some sense of (internal emotional history of) control in order to gain more. Perhaps seeing that your view may be inverted could help?

So all a person needs to do is change their beliefs. The concept of "locus of control" is just a concept or a lens through which to perceive the way others behave, but it's subjective. Quantifying things only applies to physical reality, it doesn't apply to the mind. If beliefs have such a strong affect on the mind, then when some psychological research is released it'll be true for those who believe it, but it'll be false for those who don't. This means the trick is to believe the studies where you like the results and not believe the studies where you don't.

This might sound a little bit like wishful thinking, but if beliefs have such a strong impact then it'd be wishful thinking to believe that people don't have complete and total control of themselves. This is a wishful thinking trap that perhaps the STS mind control people have fallen into.

I'm curious what peoples score out of 10 is. Mine would be a 5 right now.

Well like I said I think the concept of locus of control is subjective, but if I view things through that lens then I'd say my score is a 10. I feel like I could win the lotto if I wanted the free money. However, if I was going to score myself for self-control it'd be about a 5. So I think I can control reality, in fact I think I do it naturally all the time, but I think that at the moment if I were to try and consciously and willfully control reality I'd make a mess, so I'm better off working internally than externally.

Also, I'm selling pills to improve people's locus of control scores if you want some, they're $free.99. ;)

 

[Divide by Zero]

If what the C's say is true, do you think it's possible to alter reality and physicality with a placebo? If we could somehow show that reality reflects belief then we could sell pills that can literally do anything, we can have pills for:

-Influencing a person's locus of control
-Making people more attractive to the opposite sex
-Preventing peoples cars from braking down

Anything the heart desires can be made a reality by swallowing a little pill. Mantras are probably cheaper though.

It requires the mind to conceive it as "possible". With science, we know that some things are just far fetched.
A good example which I am paraphrasing because I can't find the link:

A hypnotist H hypnotizes a man A with another person B in the room sitting on a chair observing.
H tells A that B disappeared. No result, A still sees B.
H tries other ways, still no dice- B is still visible.
H says B has to leave to take care of something. B walks to the door, opens and closes it but doesn't leave.
B moves his chair around even lifting it. A says the chair is moving by itself and floating at times.

So, because B leaving through the door was "logical" to A, it worked to induce "belief" and make his brain filter out B which was still there! Crazy stuff, like the split brain experiments!

I think if we live in a free will universe then it's not possible to truly weaken someone's free will. I think you can get them to use their free will to believe that they have weakened free will, but they'll always still ultimately have the choice of what to believe. I think the black magic mumbo jumbo's are just sell outs.

I'm not sure, I guess free will in this level is relative to how much you can access in the first place. The C's did say that violating free will made one "less tasty" to STS. So if they lobotomized them and made them do rituals, that's like eating GMO soy with anti-nutrients, lol.

I think that's interesting, so we could speculate that if hearing voices can be a natural part of the human condition then it should be possible to switch the voices on and off at will simply by believing that it's possible to switch them on and off at will.

I know it sounds odd, but when I have a hard time sleeping sometimes I can "imagine" sounds of people talking random stuff. It works well, seems to occupy the part of the brain that goes into thinking random thoughts that keep me awake.

The person must feel in their gut that:

They want to shape their future.

They can shape their future.

They know how to shape their future.

Bit of a catch 22 - you need some sense of (internal emotional history of) control in order to gain more. Perhaps seeing that your view may be inverted could help?

So all a person needs to do is change their beliefs. The concept of "locus of control" is just a concept or a lens through which to perceive the way others behave, but it's subjective. Quantifying things only applies to physical reality, it doesn't apply to the mind. If beliefs have such a strong affect on the mind, then when some psychological research is released it'll be true for those who believe it, but it'll be false for those who don't. This means the trick is to believe the studies where you like the results and not believe the studies where you don't.

This might sound a little bit like wishful thinking, but if beliefs have such a strong impact then it'd be wishful thinking to believe that people don't have complete and total control of themselves. This is a wishful thinking trap that perhaps the STS mind control people have fallen into.

Yeah, I agree about the catch22. If we can't even get a grasp on what is really happening out there, how could we have any idea what the future "should be"? How is that not anticipation? Did I mix up the idea here?

Well like I said I think the concept of locus of control is subjective, but if I view things through that lens then I'd say my score is a 10. I feel like I could win the lotto if I wanted the free money. However, if I was going to score myself for self-control it'd be about a 5. So I think I can control reality, in fact I think I do it naturally all the time, but I think that at the moment if I were to try and consciously and willfully control reality I'd make a mess, so I'm better off working internally than externally.

Also, I'm selling pills to improve people's locus of control scores if you want some, they're $free.99. ;)

I can't even rate it, but 5 seems like the most reasonable. I think that is too a catch-22.

Maybe it's a trick question of the universe, that once you think you are in control- you aren't? I'd rather wait and see what happens. But that too entails anticipation however strange. And if you think you are in control, let's say 8 all the time, when are you open to the situations that reality says that no, you aren't in control? I wonder how we could reconcile a situation where we think we are in control, but things don't go our way. Maybe another variable is missing. Maybe it's me nit picking because I can't come up with a number, haha.

Maybe the test would better be phrased with specific situations to judge objectivity vs subjectivity instead?

 

[Divide by Zero]

An extra thought came to mind when recalling a time when I felt powerless, over worried and so on:
I saw that yes, my perspective changed and self-esteem got better from experience, feeling capable of doing things.
BUT
The environment can impose limits. You can't expect someone who is enslaved or in a totalitarian state to be able to feel like he is in charge of things. We're social creatures and we reflect our environment as epigenetics has also shown when it comes to DNA/etc.

C's here

Remember, most all power necessary for altering reality and physicality is contained within the belief center of the mind. This is something you will understand more closely when you reach 4th density reality where physicality is no longer a prison, but is instead, your home, for you to alter as you please. In your current state, you have the misinterpretation of believing that reality is finite and therein lies your difficulty with finite physical existence. We are surprised that you are still not able to completely grasp this concept.

Wow, it zapped in my head these environmental/societal limits which basically keep our ability to "do anything" is from fear of death and not just fear, the actual causality of death- not being able to do anymore.

In another session the C's said that YCYOR does work but here on a macro scale. So that means the social and environmental factors are what force us in a direction. So, yeah like that hypnosis experiment in the previous post, we can't go beyond what is "expected" on this environment.

With those finite limits gone, whether it be death or a transition, if we are no longer "attached" to the old rules, we can have less limits. 4d STS seems to be the part that has never got over that issue of old rules, which is why they return over and over and STO doesn't (having faith in us, even if we all die in destruction).

 

[Phill4]

As i've been thinking about this topic and the concept of placebo in general,
There needs to be an understanding of how exactly the beliving center works.

One can alter one's perceptions easily yes and during hypnosys of a clinical type or just the hypnosys of a sales man or daily talk.

The believing center is an structure that handle emotional/phychic information to form our perception.

We are constanly under the influence of the sturctures governing our brains, so what paintes our reality which is aided by memory is the recolection of emotions that we tell ourselves that we ought to feel about something.

But if a person lost his memory or ability to recollect events and attach emotional value to these evens we would have a soup of neutral information, an this our perception would have no north. In the case of someone perceiving neutral information to lets say damage to his lymbic system, how does the reality and locus center parameters apply to him? His reality would be structured completely different.

The reality is we are ALWAYS telling ourselves how to feel how to act and how to see the world at a subconscious level.

So how exactly placebo works? We first tell ourselves how to interpret the event, then we register the chain emotional reaction then we tell ourselves how to feel about these emotions, then we fell them, then we tell ourselves how to counteract the intial flow of emotions, then knock on wood, then we tell ourselves we did it, releasing other emotions to cancell out stress and on and on and on. All of this happens barely outside of our awsreness and sometimes deeply in our awareness. But since we are talking in our head all the time and painting reality, what Ra and the C's talk about the mind has everything makes sense. Because telling ourselves what to feel or think or interpret in holding onto a structure of perception and not listening to the universe, we can't perceive the wholeness of the universe within us. We are never listening we are always talking.

How the structures of perception interact with the level of reality we are ready to accept is a different question hinting toward what the C's described as mass consciousness, and how all people vibrates as a mass with an unified psycho/emotional energy towards an outcome, this part interests me alot, because it is the other side of the coin as to how our inner energy changes reality in actuality.
It suggest to me that we move out of a frequesncy thus changing realities, not altering reality in itself , but that in mass this happens more rapidly.
The key part is how emotions alter our perceptions in the process, and how our perceptions "alter reality".
In a example, we 5 or 10 years ago perceived the world totally differently yet the reality was the same and history was the same, the rules governing us were the same , how altering our perceptions through experience and learning influences the frequency change is the question.

Like the connection of one believing fequency to a higher beliving frequency of the same vibration is the bridge

It is not that we change reality, the state of a human being is not of control, we are swimming in a sea of influences and interpretations what we believe somehow aligns us with the choosen reality.

 

[obyvatel]

[quote author=Redfox]
I'm curious what peoples score out of 10 is. Mine would be a 5 right now.
[/quote]

I do not think just a score would convey much meaning. It depends a lot on how one understands the question

On a scale of 1-10, the extent to which I feel able to shape my future

As the article points out very much in line with Stoic philosopher Epictetus, we have more control over our attitude and responses to situations than we have to the situations themselves. So what part of "shaping my future" are we talking about controlling?

 

[Archaea]

A hypnotist H hypnotizes a man A with another person B in the room sitting on a chair observing.
H tells A that B disappeared. No result, A still sees B.
H tries other ways, still no dice- B is still visible.
H says B has to leave to take care of something. B walks to the door, opens and closes it but doesn't leave.
B moves his chair around even lifting it. A says the chair is moving by itself and floating at times.

So, because B leaving through the door was "logical" to A, it worked to induce "belief" and make his brain filter out B which was still there! Crazy stuff, like the split brain experiments!

That's the third man theme thing from the wave. I couldn't find it either though. The question is, do you think person A was in control of what they were seeing? If what they were seeing was a product of their beliefs, and if they have the choice of what to believe, then they should be the one in control, shouldn't they?

I'm not sure, I guess free will in this level is relative to how much you can access in the first place. The C's did say that violating free will made one "less tasty" to STS. So if they lobotomized them and made them do rituals, that's like eating GMO soy with anti-nutrients, lol.

I see, is it possible to violate someone's choice of what to believe?

I know it sounds odd, but when I have a hard time sleeping sometimes I can "imagine" sounds of people talking random stuff. It works well, seems to occupy the part of the brain that goes into thinking random thoughts that keep me awake.

That's cool, I'm going to give that a go.

Yeah, I agree about the catch22. If we can't even get a grasp on what is really happening out there, how could we have any idea what the future "should be"? How is that not anticipation? Did I mix up the idea here?

I think having any idea of what the future "should be" is anticipation... maybe. If what the C's say is true, the future will be a result of our beliefs, and we have a choice of what to believe. Therefore, we have control of the future, in some sense at least... If what the C's say is true, and, oddly enough, if we believe what they say.

I can't even rate it, but 5 seems like the most reasonable. I think that is too a catch-22.

Maybe it's a trick question of the universe, that once you think you are in control- you aren't? I'd rather wait and see what happens. But that too entails anticipation however strange. And if you think you are in control, let's say 8 all the time, when are you open to the situations that reality says that no, you aren't in control? I wonder how we could reconcile a situation where we think we are in control, but things don't go our way. Maybe another variable is missing. Maybe it's me nit picking because I can't come up with a number, haha.

I think there might be a market for locus of control pills.

I guess it is a bit confusing. If there is no time then the future doesn't exist, so there's no way to control it. I think maybe the solution is that we're ultimately in control of the moment, so when the future comes we'll be in control of that too. So, don't worry about the future, anything that can happen in the future can happen now.

The environment can impose limits. You can't expect someone who is enslaved or in a totalitarian state to be able to feel like he is in charge of things. We're social creatures and we reflect our environment as epigenetics has also shown when it comes to DNA/etc.

How did you know it was the environment imposing limits and not your beliefs? How can we go about being objective about the difference between the two?

Wow, it zapped in my head these environmental/societal limits which basically keep our ability to "do anything" is from fear of death and not just fear, the actual causality of death- not being able to do anymore.

In the way towards health Seth says that no one has ever died who didn't want to. The C's say that when we die we go to 5th density and then return to 1st through 4th after that, so we're really eternal beings. Once we get to 7D is when we have finally achieved true objectivity, when we as the creator finally know ourself in complete totality, until then we have to live with a degree of subjectivity.

So, the only real reason to fear death is that once your gone someone's going to take all your stuff and you can't do anything to stop them.

The reality is we are ALWAYS telling ourselves how to feel how to act and how to see the world at a subconscious level.

We don't have to do this though, and this use of energy could be what maintains our beliefs about the world. Sometimes I think I should feel something when I don't, but I think this is a form of passing judgment, I think I have to feel some particular feeling in some particular situation in order to pass the test of being a civilized person. But that's not true, if left alone I can trust my true feelings.

It is not that we change reality, the state of a human being is not of control, we are swimming in a sea of influences and interpretations what we believe somehow aligns us with the choosen reality.

I think the state of perceiving beings is one of control, we can choose what and how to perceive. As humans though our perceptions are so complex that to change anything about them might require some work.

As the article points out very much in line with Stoic philosopher Epictetus, we have more control over our attitude and responses to situations than we have to the situations themselves. So what part of "shaping my future" are we talking about controlling?

I thought it was the situations themselves. I don't know if someone would feel like they have no control of their attitudes and responses.

 

[Divide by Zero]

That's the third man theme thing from the wave. I couldn't find it either though. The question is, do you think person A was in control of what they were seeing? If what they were seeing was a product of their beliefs, and if they have the choice of what to believe, then they should be the one in control, shouldn't they?

I guess the problem here is that the upbringing and life of the person, the environment is what sets those "possible rules".
Maybe that is the danger of 4d that the C's warn with wishful thinking. How can we truly be objective- it's all relative.
I'd think the only equalizer is time. After so much time of being tricked with the floating chair, A ends up finding out that he was blind and B was still there.

Maybe that's how STS comes back to "ONE" eventually, sees that they were blind.

I'm not sure, I guess free will in this level is relative to how much you can access in the first place. The C's did say that violating free will made one "less tasty" to STS. So if they lobotomized them and made them do rituals, that's like eating GMO soy with anti-nutrients, lol.

I see, is it possible to violate someone's choice of what to believe?

Good point. So I was thinking how STS seeks to dupe those with more potential, and why? It's easier to just settle for the "mindless" sheeple. But if they do try to violate free will by duping, that just changes their belief to a "lower level" which in effect makes them have more free will to hunger for MORE free will. Never ending feedback loop
The C's said, infinite knowledge for infinite power quest of STS for infinite time. Argh, so in a way it IS entropy?

A good analogy is "us" in relation to our cells. Our cells have free will, but only to the extent of their environment or their design. A liver cell can't or doesn't have the need to know what is beyond. Maybe when it does, it becomes cancerous like Agent Smith multiplying- STS? Maybe sometimes this happens when we micromanager and seek perfection from those cells, much like STS does with this reality? So by exerting free will for what we expect or believe to be good, we end up creating our "future opposition" much like 4dSTS doing to 3d, some of which will be opposition?

So STS can grow their free will now and pay for it later- causality, as we all go through. For 4d STS, they're still in a way stuck in time, because they are dependant on 3d and lower to harvest resources to pay their free will debt, haha!

STO, that's the wild card. The idea of some balance is so hard to fathom here with our "buffer" of time, cause and effect. No cause and effect, no real time, we would go nuts?!! It's like being your own father and son at the same time. I don't know why the whole time paradox came to mind, but perhaps it's the easiest way to comprehend things without linear time?

Non-anticipation would be the normal way of STO, but how exactly does that sustain an identity and not turn into an ever present "force"?

But then the C's said that we can't even fathom it here. I don't even know why they would be saying it, knowing that, but maybe that's sort of a paradox, they exist because they planted this "Inception" of that idea in us?

I feel that deep down the C's are THE MANTRA of belief, not in that cheap religious or purely scientific measurable sense, but sort of like an "antidote" to normal belief systems which are set in cause and effect/determinism.

I think there might be a market for locus of control pills.

I guess it is a bit confusing. If there is no time then the future doesn't exist, so there's no way to control it. I think maybe the solution is that we're ultimately in control of the moment, so when the future comes we'll be in control of that too. So, don't worry about the future, anything that can happen in the future can happen now.

Haha, yeah are the pills red and blue at the same time?
But, yeah it creates this confusion as to what exactly we are doing if anything can happen, who or what is really in charge? Maybe that's the seed of the soul? It reminds me of the AI in Westworld questioning their existence- which is a "flaw" but also a "creation" of itself.

The environment can impose limits. You can't expect someone who is enslaved or in a totalitarian state to be able to feel like he is in charge of things. We're social creatures and we reflect our environment as epigenetics has also shown when it comes to DNA/etc.

How did you know it was the environment imposing limits and not your beliefs? How can we go about being objective about the difference between the two?

In the way towards health Seth says that no one has ever died who didn't want to. The C's say that when we die we go to 5th density and then return to 1st through 4th after that, so we're really eternal beings. Once we get to 7D is when we have finally achieved true objectivity, when we as the creator finally know ourself in complete totality, until then we have to live with a degree of subjectivity.

So, the only real reason to fear death is that once your gone someone's going to take all your stuff and you can't do anything to stop them.

I guess we can say in that case our belief is the system itself? We were born of 3d STS and still are STS, so these rules of physics, health, etc are more solid than anything. A liver cell is a liver cell as the past example. So we're here to learn how to be ourselves the best, which only we can teach ourselves by following outside feedback? If I am a liver cell in an alcoholic, I still am a liver cell- it doesn't change my job or who I am or my fate. To think I could surpass that role would be STS, Wishful thinking???? But what if the only real way to surpass the limit is to stop choosing to exist? I have to admit something dark about that.

There was a time I was depressed due to a trauma (assaulted-broken teeth, excruciating pain and humiliation) when I was a teen. I was suicidal at times, feeling hopeless and useless. But I could never get myself to do it.
But I have had went back to the idea after clearing out the emotions from it, to try to see the logic.
It was a good thing, changed me to seek deeper answers beyond the self explaining loop of religion, and end up here.

I could only see one thing that is objective: the only way you could consider the idea is by having a true individuality. If you never could see yourself as different than the system, you wouldn't have the seed Ego to consider this. The Westworld show and Terminator 2 movies about AI reminded me about how they couldn't choose this or even think about it, it was like survival- coding/DNA in us was the only thing really in control.

It doesn't mean doing it is right, but thinking about it would be like modern day psychology seeing that having anger and rage is not bad, as long as it's not acted upon. It also helps me face a possible horrible death, because if I could have considered ending my own life it's easier to just let life do it for me! I also don't feel this obsession that I used to have, which was always preoccupied with having backup plans and backups of those! All for surviving something that might not even happen the way I planned! Can't move quick when you got a lot of baggage packed for a specific type of trip!

Is that faith, that if I am to live as a liver cell and I can't cut it anymore because the body is drunk, it's not my fault for dying, nor a punishment?
Is that giving up? I don't think so. It could be dying and being reborn?

After all Caesar went in knowing he was going to be killed, later turned into the story of Jesus knowing Judas would betray him.
Same for JFK, who you would think would call off a botched secret service operation knowing they were out to get him.
Both were seemingly actively waiting to die, instead of avoiding it... Is that the only way STO can exit STS?
And Caesar later channeled to say he saw the futility of change, waiting for 4d...
The liver cell did its job, saw the futility of living inside a drunk man, by dying helped end the suffering of itself and the suffering of the drunk man.

So, as they say, the meek shall inherit the earth.

It's like those examples show the difference between the postmodern ideal of "nothing matters" and the seemingly truer idea of "this is the limit". All brought to us by objective? laws of the environment/physics/society?

 

[Archaea]

I guess the problem here is that the upbringing and life of the person, the environment is what sets those "possible rules".
Maybe that is the danger of 4d that the C's warn with wishful thinking. How can we truly be objective- it's all relative.
I'd think the only equalizer is time. After so much time of being tricked with the floating chair, A ends up finding out that he was blind and B was still there.

Maybe that's how STS comes back to "ONE" eventually, sees that they were blind.

I think we have some pretty deep set beliefs, we can't stick our hands through walls, for example. If beliefs have the power to alter physicality then the reason why we can't walk through walls is because of our beliefs. The work required to stop believing in the power of walls might take hours and hours of shaman dancing and singing, and so, is too much work for the average westerner.

I think you make a good point about person A, at some point they'd have to get tired of being upset and start to actually study the situation. Furthermore, after the experiment, person A may have actually learned a great deal about how their mind works and would have changed their beliefs accordingly. It seems to me that attempting the experiment on the same person twice might give different results the second time.

A good analogy is "us" in relation to our cells. Our cells have free will, but only to the extent of their environment or their design. A liver cell can't or doesn't have the need to know what is beyond. Maybe when it does, it becomes cancerous like Agent Smith multiplying- STS? Maybe sometimes this happens when we micromanager and seek perfection from those cells, much like STS does with this reality? So by exerting free will for what we expect or believe to be good, we end up creating our "future opposition" much like 4dSTS doing to 3d, some of which will be opposition?

Seth talks about cells a fair bit. He says our cells have free will and they use this free will to come together and form the body. The cells learn a lot from doing this and they find it quite rewarding. Seth also says that without the cell's free will our bodies couldn't exist, our bodies need the cells intelligence and will to exist as cells in order to function.

STO, that's the wild card. The idea of some balance is so hard to fathom here with our "buffer" of time, cause and effect. No cause and effect, no real time, we would go nuts?!! It's like being your own father and son at the same time. I don't know why the whole time paradox came to mind, but perhaps it's the easiest way to comprehend things without linear time?

Yeah, perhaps we're just not smart enough, we're basically just furless ground monkeys. Psychology says that we can only keep about 7 items in working memory, which is nothing. I sometimes think if we could keep 50 things in working memory, all our problems in mathematics would be considered elementary.

But as we evolve, the true nature of time should become evident and we'll be able to understand it naturally. Until then though, I think we should pay attention to the life and world of furless ground monkeys. :)

Non-anticipation would be the normal way of STO, but how exactly does that sustain an identity and not turn into an ever present "force"?

If anticipation takes us away from paying attention in the moment, then any identity sustained by anticipation would be a false identity, wouldn't it?

I feel that deep down the C's are THE MANTRA of belief, not in that cheap religious or purely scientific measurable sense, but sort of like an "antidote" to normal belief systems which are set in cause and effect/determinism.

I agree, I've been reading bringers of the dawn and I think the book doesn't really contain any useful data, but instead contains a way of thinking and, like you said, a system of belief. Because of this, I think it'd be possible to read the book in any order, because the later parts aren't built linearly on the early parts.

The C's give us a choice, or at least help us become aware that we have one, about what to believe. We can have some faith in what the C's say, but we don't need blind faith, because we can test what they say against reality.

Haha, yeah are the pills red and blue at the same time?
But, yeah it creates this confusion as to what exactly we are doing if anything can happen, who or what is really in charge? Maybe that's the seed of the soul? It reminds me of the AI in Westworld questioning their existence- which is a "flaw" but also a "creation" of itself.

I think red pills would be more effective, especially for people who have seen the matrix. But I see what you're saying, it's best to give the people you're trying to help all the information. This means that if someone wants your advice you have to tell them "give me your money otherwise you won't listen to me." People who value money don't value free advice.

Ultimately 7D is in charge, according to the channeling cosmology, but 7D is where we get to ourselves eventually, so that would mean we're in control. The C's and Ra say that our lives follow a blueprint laid out by our higher selves, which is us in the future. So we are in charge, we have selected our experiences in order to learn what we want to learn, and the more we learn the more satisfied we'll be with existence.

I guess we can say in that case our belief is the system itself? We were born of 3d STS and still are STS, so these rules of physics, health, etc are more solid than anything. A liver cell is a liver cell as the past example. So we're here to learn how to be ourselves the best, which only we can teach ourselves by following outside feedback? If I am a liver cell in an alcoholic, I still am a liver cell- it doesn't change my job or who I am or my fate. To think I could surpass that role would be STS, Wishful thinking???? But what if the only real way to surpass the limit is to stop choosing to exist? I have to admit something dark about that.

There was a time I was depressed due to a trauma (assaulted-broken teeth, excruciating pain and humiliation) when I was a teen. I was suicidal at times, feeling hopeless and useless. But I could never get myself to do it.
But I have had went back to the idea after clearing out the emotions from it, to try to see the logic.
It was a good thing, changed me to seek deeper answers beyond the self explaining loop of religion, and end up here.

I was beginning to think you might have some emotional blocks, you don't seem to like the idea that you're in control of your own life. After reading the confidence thread it seems to me like you don't like your job and feel trapped by it. I admit I'm trying to read between the lines here, so I could be wrong and I don't want to start telling you about yourself.

But, you can make it your aim to move away from the things in your life which you don't like, and little by little start to experiment with the idea that beliefs have the power to change reality. Seth says that reality will take care of us, but if we believe the worst will happen, we'll make the worst happen and our lives will be one disaster after another. But if you have a little faith that more often than not the good things happen, then the good things will start happening, which will reinforce the belief that the good things happen, which will then be the reality.

Once you clean out the blocks and move to a more desirable life situation, your FRV should start increasing rapidly, so long as you apply what you've learned to prevent new blocks from developing. That's the theory anyway.

It doesn't mean doing it is right, but thinking about it would be like modern day psychology seeing that having anger and rage is not bad, as long as it's not acted upon. It also helps me face a possible horrible death, because if I could have considered ending my own life it's easier to just let life do it for me! I also don't feel this obsession that I used to have, which was always preoccupied with having backup plans and backups of those! All for surviving something that might not even happen the way I planned! Can't move quick when you got a lot of baggage packed for a specific type of trip!

Is that faith, that if I am to live as a liver cell and I can't cut it anymore because the body is drunk, it's not my fault for dying, nor a punishment?
Is that giving up? I don't think so. It could be dying and being reborn?

Death is a perfectly reasonable choice, but it's STS to suicide. The C's say that STO do things within the natural order of things and Seth says that once someone has made the choice to die the body will start to move in that direction naturally.

Having said that, I think sticking around to see the end of the world would be worth it for it's own sake.

 

[Divide by Zero]

I was beginning to think you might have some emotional blocks, you don't seem to like the idea that you're in control of your own life. After reading the confidence thread it seems to me like you don't like your job and feel trapped by it. I admit I'm trying to read between the lines here, so I could be wrong and I don't want to start telling you about yourself.

But, you can make it your aim to move away from the things in your life which you don't like, and little by little start to experiment with the idea that beliefs have the power to change reality. Seth says that reality will take care of us, but if we believe the worst will happen, we'll make the worst happen and our lives will be one disaster after another. But if you have a little faith that more often than not the good things happen, then the good things will start happening, which will reinforce the belief that the good things happen, which will then be the reality.

Once you clean out the blocks and move to a more desirable life situation, your FRV should start increasing rapidly, so long as you apply what you've learned to prevent new blocks from developing. That's the theory anyway.

Emotional block yes, but had we not had these limits in the first place- would we have found the C's website and other sources? We would be happy to continue the same old system of get married, buy a house, have kids and die. People ignore or excuse injustice and unfairness so well in order to succeed. Is that selling out in a way?

I like my job, if I didn't have to tippy toe/walk on eggshells with those who have authoritarian personalities. I joke that the machines at work listen to me and I to them, but not the bosses. Typical kind of environment everywhere...

And I don't see any solution. You can move anywhere in the world and there will always be bosses who think they know better. The confidence thread made me feel like some people's self esteem comes from a belief that it gives them a reason to have control in hierarchy. While with true confidence, you don't need a belief to lead or follow. My mother used to say I never followed nor lead, just did my own thing. Maybe I just need to stop caring so much and do like everyone else does- pass the buck when I feel like it's a lose-lose. Maybe that's why it hurts, I feel like we could do better if we all did it together, but how do you herd cats, LOL! Argh. Anyway, it's a good thing to analyze and I should do writing exercises on it.

I still wonder though that what exactly is belief and what is objective in this case. I don't distrust people, but how can I just magically believe away what happens in both small and large political/societal/business environments? Even being my own boss would entail issues and limits.

Clearing out blocks is fine, but this is what makes me angry about 3d and possibly a limiting belief: tell me a place where we don't have to feed/have the mark of the beast (politics/economics). Nowhere is truly free in this world, and I've accepted that.

The c's did say that we become 4d when we finish lessons of 3d. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm starting to believe that when we grow tired of 3d's limits, we prepare for 4d. BUT in some cases, like the suicide, it is self absorbed. In other cases like Caesar and JFK, were they self absorbed to not avoid their murders or what? Such a grey area.

STS is suicide when it's for an advantage. But when the liver cell knows that the current environment is not sustainable, and the cell starts suffering more and more- could it be STS that the cell "never gives up"?

The scariest situation would be if we had an economic or environmental collapse. What limit would you or I hit before we decide not to kill others to survive, just to believe things will get better? It very well could be that it won't be needed, but is it belief to think that going by the way society in general goes- it won't be pretty unless we hid on some island?

I guess like the cell situation, what exactly is the proper belief of limits? Is it to push and push for survival despite conditions? The new age would say that I believe I have limits. But that's crap, because we do! In fact, in psychology a lot of issues come from ignoring our limits. Maybe the closest thing to objectivity is that belief changes based on growth. So right now, I cannot see how far I will go... but I can see where I am, and step by step things change. Perhaps that's my issue, I pushed myself too hard in the past and hit brick walls- but if I didn't push so hard in life, those brick walls would have not been there?

 

[Divide by Zero]

I think the main issue is that whether it's a belief or not, I feel like the only thing that we have control over is ourselves. I don't see how being optimistic is realistic especially after seeing how both Jfk and Caesar walked into their deaths and are deemed STO.

Did they really give up, or did they realize that the belief of "not giving up" was rooted in a wrong belief that they could make things better?

It's a pretty dark place, but it makes me feel more alive and individual than relying on reality to confirm my existence via "results". I am who I am whether things get better or worse.

From Ra it seems for the wanderers there is a belief that makes them work so hard at a goal but end up damaging themselves. And it's not so cut and dry that this is in fact STO, when they suffer for it and fail:
I don't think I am a wanderer, but I think it seems logical when it comes to psychology and applies to anyone who seeks to be STO:
http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?c=Wanderers

This entity, therefore, spends itself without regard to its reserves of mind/body/spirit complex distortion in regard to what you call strength or energy. This distortion is primarily due to the blockage of the indigo ray. As we have said before, the misapprehension distortion of the instrument responsible for this blockage is the basic orientation towards a belief in unworthiness. The unworthiness distortion blocks the free flow of intelligent energy.

I think this pressure of making things better makes me feel unworthy, because it might be an excuse but really- how can we aim for some perfect living on a planet that is run by psychopaths? Maybe if something changes that, I have hope... but not now and thats my "belief" I suppose?

edit added link

 

[Keit]

The scariest situation would be if we had an economic or environmental collapse. What limit would you or I hit before we decide not to kill others to survive, just to believe things will get better? It very well could be that it won't be needed, but is it belief to think that going by the way society in general goes- it won't be pretty unless we hid on some island?

I think that when the SHTF situation will really happen, many Western people will have to face the fact that many other (primarily non-Western) societies had far greater calamities, but still somehow managed to survive without resorting to all kind of apocalyptic scenarios, as described in Hollywood movies. It seems like this kind of presumptuous thinking only reveals North American "exceptionalism", something they now have on an almost instinctual level, and which is going to be the prime reason for their undoing. Basically, yeah, economic or environmental collapse is very scary. But really not something many countries didn't suffer through before. Actually, it may help many people in the US to "grow-up" a little as a nation. Or actually help them remember how they were before, because US also has its share of harsh times.

I think this pressure of making things better makes me feel unworthy, because it might be an excuse but really- how can we aim for some perfect living on a planet that is run by psychopaths? Maybe if something changes that, I have hope... but not now and thats my "belief" I suppose?

Well, apparently in the past life wasn't peachy either. Each historic period had its own hardships, psychopaths in power, and overpowering darkness with no end in sight. Not sure if it was that insidious and prevalent, but maybe the fact that people were killed a lot in the past (for various reasons) somehow "diluted" the intensity of evil in one particular place. On the other hand, considering the periodic cometary bombardment (i.e. Earth cleansing), looks like they had their own share of "wickedness" too. The point is, that waiting for "better conditions" in order to have hope or other more "optimistic" emotions is akin to "waiting for the perfect man" (like on this image). Because who knows, maybe "better conditions" for humanity don't exist yet, unless we make it possible? After all, the idea is to create a different kind of reality, not to dwell on holding grudges over the existing one.

As for authority, as usual the devil is in the details. One of the signs of growing up is when rebelling teenager gradually morphs into a young adult, who isn't afraid to "follow" someone else's advice or lead, because they understand that there are some people who earned this kind of trust. In such a situation "real" authority is being chosen, and other authorities that are being imposed on us are simply respected in order not to create unnecessary suffering to ourselves and others. Being a captain of one's soul doesn't mean being "a lone wolf" with no ties to any authority. It means that being tied to authority doesn't hold any real threat to one's true inner inclinations. One can be free in chains, and be chained without them. It's all a matter of a personal choice, osit.

The c's did say that we become 4d when we finish lessons of 3d. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm starting to believe that when we grow tired of 3d's limits, we prepare for 4d. BUT in some cases, like the suicide, it is self absorbed. In other cases like Caesar and JFK, were they self absorbed to not avoid their murders or what? Such a grey area.

STS is suicide when it's for an advantage. But when the liver cell knows that the current environment is not sustainable, and the cell starts suffering more and more- could it be STS that the cell "never gives up"?

Not sure I understand what you say here. What is being self absorbed?

On the cellular level things are "simple" All the cells go through a periodic "apoptosis", or "cell death". They perform this "suicide" because they are maybe no longer needed, or are a threat to the organism. And if they wouldn't be destroyed, they could morph into cancerous (truly damaging) cells.

 

[Divide by Zero]

Not sure I understand what you say here. What is being self absorbed?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Sometimes suicide is from being self-absorbed, narcissism. It's unlike how JFK and Caesar walked into their deaths, because from the outside people might say they were selfish to allow their death but they did it knowing that they did their best!

Thanks for the scientific description of how the cells do it. It's a very dutiful almost STO thing that they do for the host. I feel sometimes the atheists who want to live forever as downloading themselves into a chip or via biological means forget that doing this would destroy the earth. A cancer!

Basically, yeah, economic or environmental collapse is very scary. But really not something many countries didn't suffer through before. Actually, it may help many people in the US to "grow-up" a little as a nation. Or actually help them remember how they were before, because US also has its share of harsh times.

Thanks for reminding me this. In bad times, its easier to see who is a liar and who is not. People would take on more responsibility too for themselves and others. Right now it is really a zombie nation/world where people work hard but barely have to think or feel about it, cogs in the machine!


I do have hope in a better reality, but as you said about history- this has happened before. Is it a blind belief that this world would have something closer to the ideal? Wouldn't a more objective belief be to accept that things are almost destined to be this way here?

 

[Keit]

Thanks for reminding me this. In bad times, its easier to see who is a liar and who is not. People would take on more responsibility too for themselves and others. Right now it is really a zombie nation/world where people work hard but barely have to think or feel about it, cogs in the machine!

Unfortunately, it's true. Today I stumbled upon a quote by Sergei Yesenin, one of the most popular and recognizable Russian poets of the 20th century. He lived between 1895 and 1925. At one point he visited America and wrote his friend about it:

What do I say to you about this terrible kingdom of philistinism that borders on idiocy? Not counting the foxtrot, there is almost nothing, then guzzle and drink and foxtrot again. Real men I have not yet met, and do not know where they can be found. Mister Dollar is all the rage, and art is being shunned. The height of culture is a music hall. I do not have a desire to publish books here, despite the cheapness of the paper and translations. No one here wants something like this. Maybe we are poor, hungry and cold, but we have a soul. They betrayed and exchanged theirs.

Just a note that Yesenin wasn't a picture of virtue. He was rebellious, and a drunk. A rather scandalous personality. But then, maybe he did manage to capture the essence of America's corruption. Something that maybe only total collapse and a lot of suffering can fix.

I do have hope in a better reality, but as you said about history- this has happened before. Is it a blind belief that this world would have something closer to the ideal? Wouldn't a more objective belief be to accept that things are almost destined to be this way here?

I have another Russian example for you.

Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read about it, or the author who was sharing the story. But this person shared that while spending time in Siberia, in a Gulag of sorts, he saw a Russian family that was sent there as well. They were highly educated, a Russian intelligentsia, and clearly got used to completely different conditions. And their living conditions were very harsh, and there was absolutely no hope that it would ever change.

But despite knowing that the father of the family still insisted on the entire family to continue doing certain "cultured" things that would fit in a more "civilized" environment. They made sure to keep themselves clean, neat and organized, and well educated. One could say that there was no point. It wasn't even a fool's hope. But for them it was simply who they were. External circumstances may change, but inner core remains the same. It also means that doing what we do now is not having a fool's hope, but because we cannot not do it. It's who we are.

Maybe that's what should be scary (for the Americans) about the upcoming collapse in the US. That it will reveal for all to see what Americans have as their inner core.

 

[Oxajil]

I do have hope in a better reality, but as you said about history- this has happened before. Is it a blind belief that this world would have something closer to the ideal? Wouldn't a more objective belief be to accept that things are almost destined to be this way here?

At least the man behind the curtain is being exposed because of his wishful thinking! But for the world changing for the better, I don't know. I don't think so. Maybe in some areas? It is a depressing world, but I don't think that 'fighting' for the truth is a lost cause. It can make a difference in one person's life, maybe two, and at the very least, it's sending a signal out to the Universe saying that you're not throwing in the towel, that you see something and act on it. Perhaps it's all we can do, while we work on ourselves. Regarding the future, I don't know if you have watched Laura's Knowledge & Being videos, but there's a great part about choices and the world we end up in. Maybe (re)watching those will be helpful.

My 2 cents.