The Gift of Fear: Gut Feelings, Intuition and Situational Awareness-Fri, 09 Sep

[Hindsight Man]

I actually had a laugh reading some of the replies here.Apparently I came across as some woman hater and I assure you this is not the case .I've had pleasant and unpleasant experiences with women the same as with men.My main gripe was that every time domestic abuse is discussed you almost never hear about the men even though they make up a significant portion.It just gets swept under the rug because people never even think of looking at it.I mean,how many popular books have you come across that discuss dangers of dating for men or how to get out of an abusive relationship for men etc.It's seen as something insignificant and there's such a huge social stigma against men coming forward after being abused that despite the already huge numbers,I'm willing to bet that at least half as many go unreported.So why isn't it talked about?

I apologize for not realizing you were discussing a specific book,but some of the comments made during the show still came across as patronizing.Also I wasn't in chat because I'm usually asleep by the time the show goes on air so I have to listen to a recorded version.

With regards to ''men becoming more like women'' I was referring to the clips you guys played of the interview rather than the comments of the hosts (sorry guys I keep forgetting your names).And I'm not referring to feminine energy which is present in all things,I mean specifically the view held by modern movements like LGBT/feminism where men having the outward appearance of women and the more negative traits like hysteria is seen as desirable.I think Pierre did an article on this way back when.

 

[Hindsight Man]

[quote author= Hindsight Man]A girl actually refused to date a friend of mine because he showed fear when threatened by a drug dealer.Imagine that.

[/quote]

So she wants a guy that beats up drug dealers. That's what you can make of it. Sounds like a real Cinderella story to me.


Not quite that simple I'm afraid.From what I've observed here,it's expected for guys to always be stoic and not show any fear or anxiety during confrontation.This isn't a single case and she didn't want someone to beat up drug dealers,but someone who isn't intimidated by them.Both women and men contribute to the numbing of the male emotional center,men by suppressing it to impress others and women by encouraging that suppression.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Hindsight Man][quote author= Hindsight Man]A girl actually refused to date a friend of mine because he showed fear when threatened by a drug dealer.Imagine that.[/quote]

[quote author=bjorn]So she wants a guy that beats up drug dealers. That's what you can make of it. Sounds like a real Cinderella story to me. [/quote]

Not quite that simple I'm afraid.From what I've observed here,it's expected for guys to always be stoic and not show any fear or anxiety during confrontation.This isn't a single case and she didn't want someone to beat up drug dealers,but someone who isn't intimidated by them.Both women and men contribute to the numbing of the male emotional center,men by suppressing it to impress others and women by encouraging that suppression.[/quote]

I think I would had said something like that to her in response, or something alike. Maybe than she realizes that playing Alfa male against people in the underworld isn't all that advisable. :P Even stupid and dangerous to expect that from someone, fear is their to safe your life in such situations.

But I agree, we are fed this stereotypes. And people of polar opposites expect us to play this role. And through this brainwashing we can actually start to believe that and act that way. It's very damaging.

I don't pay attention to it. But it is presented in society.


[quote author= Hindsight Man]My main gripe was that every time domestic abuse is discussed you almost never hear about the men even though they make up a significant portion.It just gets swept under the rug because people never even think of looking at it.[/quote]

The only stories I knew of that happening is men escaping their women by robbing banks so that they can go to prison. occasionally, those newstories pop-up.

But 'jokingly' aside, considering the statistics you mentioned it is serious!! I never knew.


Btw, just to clarify I was wrong with saying that women have a developed emotional center by birth.

And I didn't meant to say that this includes all women. I don't know how I gave that impression since I said before:

[quote author= bjorn]Women generally have a working emotional center.
[/quote]
So didn't meant to say to include all, just in most cases.


[quote author= Hindsight Man]I mean specifically the view held by modern movements like LGBT/feminism where men having the outward appearance of women and the more negative traits like hysteria is seen as desirable.[/quote]

Yes, you can have a developed emotional center, but without the intellectual center, how to tell which emotions are relevant and not. Hence the hysterical episodes you see in those movements. OSIT.

 

[Hindsight Man]

Having listened to the show I am somewhat frustrated and I'd like to get it out now while the memory's fresh.I'll do my best to be precise,but being in a state of agitation makes it harder to think.Throughout the whole show you guys presented women as being absolute victims,now I don't know if it's specifically an american perspective or what but painting women as perpetual damsels in distress and saying ''guys just don't get it'' came of as very condescending to me.

Appreciate the feedback about the show Hindsight Man

Reading your response I can see why you were feeling frustrated and agitated. I had no idea about the stats of domestic violence against men in Australia


I agree with Odyssey a future show discussing the male perspective is a good idea!

Just to re-iterate my point,simply because I'm addressing an issue that affects men does not mean that I think women have a free ride or have it super easy by comparison.But the part that I bolded in your response stuck out for me because several people had the same reaction.''I had no idea''.Why is that so exactly?Why do men suffer in (comparative) silence?I think a future show on this would be great and an excellent opportunity not just to educate other people,but ourselves as well.If you look into male abuse I'm sure you'll find plenty of information which quietly slips by while abuse of women and children is being discussed.

 

[Lilou]

[quote author= Hindsight Man]My main gripe was that every time domestic abuse is discussed you almost never hear about the men even though they make up a significant portion.It just gets swept under the rug because people never even think of looking at it.[/quote]

I don't know what the reported statistics are on domestic abuse against men, but it seems to be very prevalent, and perhaps goes unreported as such. I have known of at least 3 men who were/are being abused by their wife/significant other. One of the men called the police after his wife pushed him down the stairs. He was trying to leave and she jumped on his back, wrapped her legs around him and was punching him in the head. When the law showed up, he was the one arrested! So there is likely a bias where men are assumed to be the aggressor. He filed divorce soon after.

Of the other two unlucky souls, one finally escaped his toxic relationship. I once saw him with a black eye and jokingly asked, "what happened, did Megan beat you up?". He said he was cutting a tree and a branch caught him. Later, I learned the woman had hit him!! He opened up about it to me and my husband, we advised him. He's now in a healthy relationship and has a beautiful toddler.

The third case is hopeless, although it has become less physically violent as they age! She once hit him upside the head with a flower vase. Split it open, blood spewing everywhere. She went to jail for that one and the story of what it took our local law enforcers to catch her is like a "keystone stone cop" episode. 12 officers and a dog! couldn't catch her. They had to trick her, made her think they had all left, lay in wait, caught her when she finally came back home.

I thought Sandra Brown, MA had a book about men who are abused, but I didn't find it on her website. I think men are less likely to report the abuse or as victim, become the accused in the eyes of police, and become victimized twice! It is a good topic for an upcoming show.

 

[JonnyRadar]

Hi Hindsight Man, just wanted to say thank you for sharing your perspective, I agree with Niall that it's really crucial for people in the network to come forward with their views so we can network and discuss these topics together.

Thank you also for clarifying the point you were making in subsequent posts. As others pointed out, we were discussing Gavin De Becker's specific book which focuses a bit more on violence against women than it does violence against men, despite the fact that the techniques for recognizing dangerous situations that he lays out can be used by both women and men.

Specific to one of your points, "the idea that guys don't feel fear or anxiety when walking through a dark alley is absolute bull" - I totally agree with that, and I'm not sure we actually said otherwise during the show. I personally feel anxiety all the time when I'm in sketchy situations, and I'm a big guy with a tiny bit of defensive training, but that doesn't absolve me from ever feeling afraid. I feel that way quite a bit, actually.

To your point about the bias towards women regarding abuse, I think it's really a matter of statistics over time. Nobody was or is saying that women don't abuse men, and I'm sorry if we came across as having that viewpoint. We all do our best to stay away from black and white thinking on the show. That said, citing the statistic you mentioned about 30% of violence being committed by women, that still leaves 70% committed by men, which is a pretty large majority, and I think that's what we were discussing (and the point De Becker was addressing in part of his book) - that statistically, women are more likely to be victimized. This is not to say men never are, just that statistically women are more likely to be the victim. Throughout history, men retain the vast majority of positions of power, everywhere from political power, to the home, to the dynamics of violent confrontations on the street level. Whatever you may think of Wikipedia, this is a pretty interesting citation about sex differences in crime statistics that I thought worth sharing: _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime

I am sympathetic to your viewpoint though, and I'm not just giving you lip service here. I personally have known men who were victimized and abused by psychopathic women, and it went completely unmentioned for a long time. Of course the men don't usually bring it up because they're afraid to be seen as weak, or "not manly." That is a travesty, and ANY abuse by one person towards another, regardless of gender, should be discussed openly and resolved if at all possible. I think it is certainly possible and even likely that many, many "deviant" women get away with crimes and abuse (psychological or physical) not in spite of, but BECAUSE of the statistics regarding crime and abuse - because that minority of psychopathic or deviant women (however you'd like to put it) recognize that they'll be less likely to be convicted or outed for their actions.

I would be very interested in doing a show about psychopathic relationship dynamics and the statistics between "men vs. women" and vice verse, I think it would be a fascinating topic to delve into.

I'm sorry that you had a negative experience listening to this episode of the show, but I'm also glad you came forward with your concerns, and I hope this can inspire us to discuss it further in future episodes.

 

[Hindsight Man]

Hi Hindsight Man, just wanted to say thank you for sharing your perspective, I agree with Niall that it's really crucial for people in the network to come forward with their views so we can network and discuss these topics together.

Thank you also for clarifying the point you were making in subsequent posts. As others pointed out, we were discussing Gavin De Becker's specific book which focuses a bit more on violence against women than it does violence against men, despite the fact that the techniques for recognizing dangerous situations that he lays out can be used by both women and men.

Specific to one of your points, "the idea that guys don't feel fear or anxiety when walking through a dark alley is absolute bull" - I totally agree with that, and I'm not sure we actually said otherwise during the show. I personally feel anxiety all the time when I'm in sketchy situations, and I'm a big guy with a tiny bit of defensive training, but that doesn't absolve me from ever feeling afraid. I feel that way quite a bit, actually.

To your point about the bias towards women regarding abuse, I think it's really a matter of statistics over time. Nobody was or is saying that women don't abuse men, and I'm sorry if we came across as having that viewpoint. We all do our best to stay away from black and white thinking on the show. That said, citing the statistic you mentioned about 30% of violence being committed by women, that still leaves 70% committed by men, which is a pretty large majority, and I think that's what we were discussing (and the point De Becker was addressing in part of his book) - that statistically, women are more likely to be victimized. This is not to say men never are, just that statistically women are more likely to be the victim. Throughout history, men retain the vast majority of positions of power, everywhere from political power, to the home, to the dynamics of violent confrontations on the street level. Whatever you may think of Wikipedia, this is a pretty interesting citation about sex differences in crime statistics that I thought worth sharing: _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime

I am sympathetic to your viewpoint though, and I'm not just giving you lip service here. I personally have known men who were victimized and abused by psychopathic women, and it went completely unmentioned for a long time. Of course the men don't usually bring it up because they're afraid to be seen as weak, or "not manly." That is a travesty, and ANY abuse by one person towards another, regardless of gender, should be discussed openly and resolved if at all possible. I think it is certainly possible and even likely that many, many "deviant" women get away with crimes and abuse (psychological or physical) not in spite of, but BECAUSE of the statistics regarding crime and abuse - because that minority of psychopathic or deviant women (however you'd like to put it) recognize that they'll be less likely to be convicted or outed for their actions.

I would be very interested in doing a show about psychopathic relationship dynamics and the statistics between "men vs. women" and vice verse, I think it would be a fascinating topic to delve into.

I'm sorry that you had a negative experience listening to this episode of the show, but I'm also glad you came forward with your concerns, and I hope this can inspire us to discuss it further in future episodes.

As I already mentioned I don't have a problem with you guys discussing things from a female point of view,but the fact of the matter is that the male point is almost never presented,anywhere.For example,recently a former Australian of the Year Rosie Batty said that domestic violence is "almost overwhelmingly, almost exclusively" perpetrated by men against women.When in reality up to One in 3 people who suffer from it are men.You can take a look at the website called One in Three for more information.Do you see my point?It's not that women aren't suffering,it's that men are as well..It's not just Australia though,I'm sure you'll find plenty of unpleasantness in the land of the free if you dig around.Also I wouldn't call it a negative experience,just a frustrating one.I am however glad that some good has come of me voicing my concerns. (edited bolded parts)

 

[Miss.K]

I actually had a laugh reading some of the replies here.Apparently I came across as some woman hater and I assure you this is not the case .

You didn't come across as a woman hater to me, and the replies didn't come across as laughable or implying you were a woman hater to me either.
The show didn't come across to me as biased against men either.
I agree that it is a scary and dangerous world for anybody, man or woman. And that being followed by a suspicious person in a dark alley is scary for both men and women, but I didn't hear

"the idea that guys don't feel fear or anxiety when walking through a dark alley"

either.

My main gripe was that every time domestic abuse is discussed you almost never hear about the men even though they make up a significant portion.It just gets swept under the rug because people never even think of looking at it.I mean,how many popular books have you come across that discuss dangers of dating for men or how to get out of an abusive relationship for men etc.It's seen as something insignificant and there's such a huge social stigma against men coming forward after being abused that despite the already huge numbers,I'm willing to bet that at least half as many go unreported.So why isn't it talked about?

I'm willing to bet that more than half as many go unreported, but I also am willing to bet that more than half as many go unreported when it comes to women being assaulted.
Yes it is embarrassing for a man to admit he was beaten up or raped, but it is also embarrassing for a woman.

I think that most cases of abuse go unreported, no matter the sex of the abused...The stigma might have different names, but there is a huge stigma involved for both sexes.
But I don't think the show was about domestic violence, so while I agree that it should be talked about when men experience violence from women, I don't think the show was at fault here...

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Joe]

[quote author= Joe]He isn't saying here that men are born without a functional emotional center, but that in women the emotional center is "more highly developed" while in men the intellectual is. In addition, he made no reference to being born that way. He may well have meant that men and women are brought up that way and the centers develop that way as a result. Also, he was very likely generalizing, i.e. this is true for *most* of the population, but not all.

So the situation seems to be a lot more nuanced than you seem to think.

Yes, highly developed, or more functional, that is that I meant. And I agree, hard to say if he was talking about birth. But it's better seated. So what could be the cause. I would say that the oppression of the feminine energy happened for a reason, men above women.
[/quote]

I think the point is that male "energy" was equally 'oppressed'.

 

[Adaryn]

I thought Sandra Brown, MA had a book about men who are abused, but I didn't find it on her website.

Is it this book?
How to Avoid Dating Damaged & Destructive Women
http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/how-to-avoid-dating-damaged-destructive-women (it's an e-book)

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Joe]I think the point is that male "energy" was equally 'oppressed'.[/quote]

Oh, ok. I couldn't tell. Oppressed by never be allowed to be developed I suppose. That's interesting, the way society is fed with male stereotypes surely doesn't allow for this kind of energies to flourish within them.

 

[Joe]

A couple of short relevant videos here

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,42679.0.html

 

[Ca.]

A couple of short relevant videos here

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,42679.0.html

It remeinded me of that Movie "Romeo Is Bleeding" (Jack is also Psychotic). Mona Make's Glenn Glenn Close character (Fatal Attraction) seem as an early budding Psycho. Mona is Pro. Cold and calculating.
FILM DESCRIPTION:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107983/

New York cop Jack Grimaldi (Gary Oldman) has a nice home, a stunning wife Natalie (Annabella Sciorra), and a sweet, if stupid mistress, Sheri (Juliette Lewis). Jack also earns extra money by betraying mob witnesses to Mafia-boss Don Falcone (Roy Scheider). Assigned to guard the viciously sexy Russian- (Psychopath) born hit woman,
Mona Demarkov (Lena Olin), Jack is almost instantly seduced and allows Mona to escape. Falcone orders Jack to find and kill Mona, and threatens to murder him if he fails. Mona offers to pay Jack to help her eliminate Falcone and fake her own death. Several plot twists and turns later, Jack is left with his life in shambles.

Jack Grimaldi

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLPb1pB0vJg

Mona Demarkov

 

[Lilou]

I thought Sandra Brown, MA had a book about men who are abused, but I didn't find it on her website.

Is it this book?
How to Avoid Dating Damaged & Destructive Women
http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/how-to-avoid-dating-damaged-destructive-women (it's an e-book)

Yes, thank you for finding it.

 

[gottathink]

I read a book a few years ago on the topic of abuse of men by women. It includes case studies of shocking physical, financial, emotional and even sexual abuse of men by women. The statistics are also shocking.

I thought it was excellent as it provides practical advice for men in pathological love relationships with women. So along the lines of ‘how can we protect ourselves’ it’s a useful resource for men trapped in these terrible situations.
“That Bitch: Protect Yourself Against Women with Malicious Intent.”
By Roy Sheppard and Mary T Cleary.

Edit: The book also talks about how these tyrannical [psychopathic] women make it more difficult for genuine female victims to receive the help they need.