The Qu'Ran and Ibn Al Arabi

[shijing]

I finally got ahold of a copy of Chittick's book last week, and I wanted to give it a big plug. Now that I've started reading it, I see what all the fuss is about -- there is no way to avoid seeing the connection between al 'Arabi's work and the information from the C's. As a matter of fact, there are several complex topics in the C's material that are actually clarified by reading this book -- I couldn't possibly list them here , as you could literally write a whole book comparing the two, I think. I am only in the beginning, and am going to do my best to get through as much as possible before I have to return it in a couple of weeks (it's a pretty large work), but I'm looking forward to absorbing as much as I can. I think it's pretty likely that al 'Arabi is amongst the group of historical figures (also including Da Vinci's and Fulcanelli's groups, as Laura details in her afterword of Secret History) who have been in contact with Cassiopaea -- the similarities are that straightforward. I really recommend getting ahold of a copy if you can -- either buying it, if you can afford it, or otherwise getting it through a library system if possible.

 

[Laura]

I finally got ahold of a copy of Chittick's book last week, and I wanted to give it a big plug. Now that I've started reading it, I see what all the fuss is about -- there is no way to avoid seeing the connection between al 'Arabi's work and the information from the C's. As a matter of fact, there are several complex topics in the C's material that are actually clarified by reading this book -- I couldn't possibly list them here , as you could literally write a whole book comparing the two, I think. I am only in the beginning, and am going to do my best to get through as much as possible before I have to return it in a couple of weeks (it's a pretty large work), but I'm looking forward to absorbing as much as I can. I think it's pretty likely that al 'Arabi is amongst the group of historical figures (also including Da Vinci's and Fulcanelli's groups, as Laura details in her afterword of Secret History) who have been in contact with Cassiopaea -- the similarities are that straightforward. I really recommend getting ahold of a copy if you can -- either buying it, if you can afford it, or otherwise getting it through a library system if possible.

Glad you are seeing what I saw. I had that book on my shelf for several years without having a clue what a treasure it was. It wasn't until the Cs experiment was well along that I actually opened it and began to read. I then was so blown away that I had to ask about it in the next session which was in June of 96. At that point, I was REALLY depressed because of the ending of my marriage the previous March and the death of my best friend in April. That was, in fact, one of the reasons I decided to open this book. I was desperately looking for ANYTHING that would give me some relief.

The clues in the Cs about al-Arabi, and the detailed exposition in al-Arabi about things the Cs had hinted at was profoundly comforting.

 

[vinny]

Thanks for the reminder Shijing. I've had this one on a shelf for a while, but up to now didn't feel ready to tackle it.

It's going to move right up the list, after I finish Mithen's Prehistory of The Mind, and Stoyanov's The Other God.

 

[Ollie]

I finally got ahold of a copy of Chittick's book last week, and I wanted to give it a big plug. Now that I've started reading it, I see what all the fuss is about -- there is no way to avoid seeing the connection between al 'Arabi's work and the information from the C's. As a matter of fact, there are several complex topics in the C's material that are actually clarified by reading this book -- I couldn't possibly list them here , as you could literally write a whole book comparing the two, I think. I am only in the beginning, and am going to do my best to get through as much as possible before I have to return it in a couple of weeks (it's a pretty large work), but I'm looking forward to absorbing as much as I can. I think it's pretty likely that al 'Arabi is amongst the group of historical figures (also including Da Vinci's and Fulcanelli's groups, as Laura details in her afterword of Secret History) who have been in contact with Cassiopaea -- the similarities are that straightforward. I really recommend getting ahold of a copy if you can -- either buying it, if you can afford it, or otherwise getting it through a library system if possible.

I read this book some years back, it is a 'large work', and I found it 'heavy' going to get through it all. However, you are right there is a great deal in it that connects with, confirms, what the C's are saying; as Laura says, '"the detailed exposition in al-Arabi about things the Cs had hinted at (i)s profoundly comforting". I also would recommend it as a required read, too. :)

 

[shijing]

I was REALLY depressed because of the ending of my marriage the previous March and the death of my best friend in April. That was, in fact, one of the reasons I decided to open this book. I was desperately looking for ANYTHING that would give me some relief.

I had known about the end of your marriage, but not about the death of your best friend during that time (forgive me if I missed it somehow). That must have been a really difficult time, and I'm sorry to hear about it and am glad you pulled through it.

The clues in the Cs about al-Arabi, and the detailed exposition in al-Arabi about things the Cs had hinted at was profoundly comforting.

It really did make my jaw drop when I actually started reading -- I expected that it would kind of fit together in a round-about, allegorical way, but the connection is really in-your-face. The explanation of 4D reality is probably one of the best I've come across once you take of al 'Arabi's cultural context into account, and I find it interesting how in the Overview there is this really concise description of 3D (corporeal), 4D (imaginal) and 6D (spiritual), along with a detailed extrapolation of 7D and the paths of being/non-being which emerge from it and range over a continuum from the subtle to the dense. So far there is no mention of 5D, which is what one would actually expect if he was explicating the densities which actively interact with us, 5D being a contemplation zone.

It's going to move right up the list, after I finish Mithen's Prehistory of The Mind, and Stoyanov's The Other God.

That's great -- I've got Prehistory of The Mind out via interlibrary loan as well and will start it tonight, and I have The Other God checked out through normal means and will start on it as soon as I read the stuff I have to return in a couple weeks. I'm halfway through The Diluvian Impact too -- we (and anyone else who happens to be reading these) will have to compare notes later. It's great to have company :)

 

[vinny]

That's great -- I've got Prehistory of The Mind out via interlibrary loan as well and will start it tonight, and I have The Other God checked out through normal means and will start on it as soon as I read the stuff I have to return in a couple weeks. I'm halfway through The Diluvian Impact too -- we (and anyone else who happens to be reading these) will have to compare notes later. It's great to have company :)

cool. I've also been trying to fill in around the edges lately, by reading some material that has a tangential connection to all this, coming in from various angles such as Schumacker's Corruption of Reality and Firestone & West's Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes. It's a lot to absorb but it really starts to add a bit of 'lateral' context. So, once I can get through a little more we can have a proper discussion about it.

 

[Buddy]

Referring back to the topic of this thread for just a moment, it appears to me that, although not directly stated as such, in Islam, there is the concept of two Korans. There is the written Koran, said to be recorded by the Prophet at the command of 'God' with an injunction against its modification, and the manifest Koran, which is the world around us created by 'God'. In his Fihi ma Fihi1, Rumi alludes to this as the difference between literalists and the mature. On page 296:

"Some people are infants of the Way-they take pleasure in the literal meaning of the Koran, and drink that milk. But those that have reached years of full discretion have another enjoyment and a different understanding of the inner meanings of the Koran."

It would seem to be the duty, then, of every person who has the time and capacity for improving himself, to study these works of 'God' - to be in Service to mankind - to pass on his findings in a manner accessible to all. There is a beauty in this idea, which allows the student to acknowledge his ignorance, and then teaching that it is the student's spiritual duty to reduce this ignorance. This approach might even have something to do with Islam's enormous contributions to humanity. We all know where algebra and algorithms came from!

It also appears that the quotes from the Koran that are used and the way they are used depends on the audience and the point being made, so Ibn Al Arabi, Rumi and some others are likely just teaching the religion of life - true spirituality, and using the Qu'Ran, or Koran, in the same way that, if he were talking to a western audience today, he would be referring to the Bible, osit.


ref:
1_http://www.omphaloskepsis.com/ebooks/pdf/discour.pdf

 

[shijing]

cool. I've also been trying to fill in around the edges lately, by reading some material that has a tangential connection to all this, coming in from various angles such as Schumacker's Corruption of Reality and Firestone & West's Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes. It's a lot to absorb but it really starts to add a bit of 'lateral' context. So, once I can get through a little more we can have a proper discussion about it.

I picked up a copy of Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes during winter break too, so it's on my list as well -- I also recommend another book by Stephen Oppenheimer titled Out of Eden, which has a global focus (in contrast to the specific focus on Britain in his later book that Laura recommended). It will be awhile before I get through everything (I'm trying to divide my time evenly between my reading 'input' and my 'output' on the forum), so no rush -- but I agree with you about the usefulness of all of this in a 'lateral' context!

It also appears that the quotes from the Koran that are used and the way they are used depends on the audience and the point being made, so Ibn Al Arabi, Rumi and some others are likely just teaching the religion of life - true spirituality, and using the Qu'Ran, or Koran, in the same way that, if he were talking to a western audience today, he would be referring to the Bible, osit.

I think that's absolutely correct -- al Arabi very likely played the same role in his time and culture that Jesus did in his (if we were only able to access his actual teachings through all of the noise that was added after his death!), or that Gurdjieff did with his followers, and that Laura is presently doing in the here-and-now.

 

[Laura]

I think that Islam was the "strategic enclosure" for al-Arabi.

 

[Buddy]

I think that Islam was the "strategic enclosure" for al-Arabi.

I do too. He was a master of external consideration when it comes to the conditioned beliefs of a general audience.

 

[JAKSUN]

Thank you all for this timely thread. Reading it leaves me with a feeling of 'having arrived'.

"The Sufi Path of Knowledge" is a Huge book, probably worth four times its retail price. I have had it for a few months now and it has never been shelved. I don't think it ever will; just like "The Wave", and "Gnosis", it will be something that always draws me back.

All my questions about the disparity between the Sufi Way and Islam have been reconciled. Where would I be without you?

 

[Laura]

Thank you all for this timely thread. Reading it leaves me with a feeling of 'having arrived'.

"The Sufi Path of Knowledge" is a Huge book, probably worth four times its retail price. I have had it for a few months now and it has never been shelved. I don't think it ever will; just like "The Wave", and "Gnosis", it will be something that always draws me back.

All my questions about the disparity between the Sufi Way and Islam have been reconciled. Where would I be without you?

So glad to see another who really groks and appreciates this work. For me, it was life-saving. I was at a point where I didn't quite know what to think about anything, particularly regarding the Cs and which way to go: just give it up, or keep pressing forward. That's when I picked up this book and the time is recorded in the sessions when I asked about it. It was amazing to me to find something that dovetailed so precisely with things the Cs were saying.

 

[1984]

... I can see I have a lot more reading to do ...

Hi scifiscriptwriter - it is customary here for new members to post a bit about themselves in the Newbies section. No need for personal detail, just a bit about how you found us, your interests, etc. :)

 

[Green_Manalishi]

Hi.
I'm currently reading a book by Jalâl Rúmi, (the name of the book in French is "Le Livre du Dedans") and i came across one of this strategic enclosures, i think, and a rather violent at that.

"It was thus that Mohammad (peace and blessing be with him) killed and shed blood; he would steal; but the tyrants were the ones he attacked, the oppressed was he himself."

After this he goes on saying the importance of a master, leader or wise person in a group of people, because he applies reason and intelligence in favour of his own people. After he talks about how reason should be applied to restrain the physical body.
So just one example, i think, of a point started with a quote from the Qu'ran which in the end was to lead to a conclusion that had nothing to do with killing and war.

 

[Green_Manalishi]

Here is another parallel between the thought of those Arabian mystics and, in this example, Castaneda teachings.

Enduring the tyranny of others becomes a rubbing on them of their own impurity. Your character corrects itself by your patience, but their character remains by their tyranny and aggression.

It reminds me of the petty tyrants from Castaneda.

Although Rûmi focuses exclusively on women and their superficiality and their temperament as a tyrant to endure, it could be another example of the gloss.

As a side note do you think that it makes a certain piece of knowledge more approximated to the truth if we see it reappearing in different "traditions" throughout time and/or space?