Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

[cubbex]

Well, as far as I know, "Jesus" as a person never existed so I wouldn't be holding my breath for his return :D I think Jesus' success throughout the last couple of thousand years has been in large part due to a desire on behalf of most people for someone to take responsibilty for them; to miraculously save them from death and suffering. (And here I would really recommend Ernest Becker's Escape from Evil as to how/why people do that - it's actually on the list of recommended reading for this particular topic). Major wishful thinking! One of the things about this Jesus was Caesar idea that has really helped me is that it's helped to kill (even more!) this idea that someone out there is going to come back and save us; that there is some magician who can miraculously fix everything and lead the way in showing us all how to be magicians just like him. Caesar was human, Jesus was fiction - what does that tell you? To me, it says to look outside for role models by all means, but look within for salvation. Wasn't it "Jesus" who said that "salvation lies within"? And then the church twisted it completely around and said that salvation lies in Jesus (i.e. without)! Anyway, in trying to clarify, I would say that learning about the Jesus/Caesar connection has for me, helped to cure me of any remaining vestiges of magical/wishful thinking with regards to being rescued :)

I agree with what you say, and maybe you got the wrong idea of my question but anyways good explanation. I really don't feel like I need salvation nor others, oh my if I would have that type of thought i'd be no one to this day, waiting for someone to take care of me when I can certainly be the conqueror of my life, I was just confused because I remember the cs mentioned that christ was going to come and teach through the media, or something like that.

What the discovering of caesar does is that, it indeed changes everything, and it takes out that inner doubt of certain things. And now it makes you think completely different, it's almost like you are from the future and you look at society, as if they are from the past because I don't not a single soul caring about this research, nor about all the things discovered here! they are all still believing in Jesus and the church and it's amazing, because it's like someone's still playing the same joke to them and they don't care enough to notice. But it certainly changes the ground, the more you know, the more you understand how incredible and well planned was to take control over humanity, though it was made all thru psychopaths and we know that most of the time they don't know what they are doing.

And thank you for the recommendations by the way :P one day I'm going to hide myself with food in a cave, and read every book recommended here.

 

[Pierre]

I was just confused because I remember the cs mentioned that christ was going to come and teach through the media, or something like that.

It's probably wise to take the excerpts relative to Jesus with a pinch of salt. Prejudice might have led to corrupted information.

 

[John G]

I was just confused because I remember the cs mentioned that christ was going to come and teach through the media, or something like that.

It's probably wise to take the excerpts relative to Jesus with a pinch of salt. Prejudice might have led to corrupted information.

Given that the Cs are a 6th density version of Laura, it could still be possible that some higher density/other reality version of Julius Caesar ends up with some media effect after a Wave arrival. Even before the Caesar idea, the Jesus coming thing was being thought of here as some kind of psychic connection so perhaps it's kind of the higher density version of this forum. Even without prejudice, the Cs seem to have and use a lot of wiggle room when it comes to things that this forum is supposed to learn on its own.

 

[herondancer]

Well, as far as I know, "Jesus" as a person never existed so I wouldn't be holding my breath for his return :D I think Jesus' success throughout the last couple of thousand years has been in large part due to a desire on behalf of most people for someone to take responsibilty for them; to miraculously save them from death and suffering. (And here I would really recommend Ernest Becker's Escape from Evil as to how/why people do that - it's actually on the list of recommended reading for this particular topic). Major wishful thinking! One of the things about this Jesus was Caesar idea that has really helped me is that it's helped to kill (even more!) this idea that someone out there is going to come back and save us; that there is some magician who can miraculously fix everything and lead the way in showing us all how to be magicians just like him. Caesar was human, Jesus was fiction - what does that tell you? To me, it says to look outside for role models by all means, but look within for salvation. Wasn't it "Jesus" who said that "salvation lies within"? And then the church twisted it completely around and said that salvation lies in Jesus (i.e. without)! Anyway, in trying to clarify, I would say that learning about the Jesus/Caesar connection has for me, helped to cure me of any remaining vestiges of magical/wishful thinking with regards to being rescued :)

I agree with what you say, and maybe you got the wrong idea of my question but anyways good explanation. I really don't feel like I need salvation nor others, oh my if I would have that type of thought i'd be no one to this day, waiting for someone to take care of me when I can certainly be the conqueror of my life, I was just confused because I remember the cs mentioned that christ was going to come and teach through the media, or something like that.

What the discovering of caesar does is that, it indeed changes everything, and it takes out that inner doubt of certain things. And now it makes you think completely different, it's almost like you are from the future and you look at society, as if they are from the past because I don't not a single soul caring about this research, nor about all the things discovered here! they are all still believing in Jesus and the church and it's amazing, because it's like someone's still playing the same joke to them and they don't care enough to notice. But it certainly changes the ground, the more you know, the more you understand how incredible and well planned was to take control over humanity, though it was made all thru psychopaths and we know that most of the time they don't know what they are doing.

And thank you for the recommendations by the way :P one day I'm going to hide myself with food in a cave, and read every book recommended here.

If we are attempting to be agents of the DMC, then in a weird sort of way, you could think of the publicizing of this new view of Caesar/Jesus as a way of "teaching through the media". He was a thoroughgoing human being who did great things that other human beings can aspire to emulate with no deity involved. "Be ye perfect as my heavenly father is perfect" doesn't apply in the same way, if at all. Caesar was far from perfect, Freeman's bio of him makes that clear, but he never wavered from his aim of bettering his fellowman. That is a sort of perfection perhaps? Plus, if by showing how the honoring of Caesars real legacy by his veterans was twisted into a "be patient with all the current horrors of your life, and you'll get rewarded later" frees a few more minds from the grip of mainstream religions, so much the better.

Thanks for bringing in Becker's book, Don Genero, it's a great read! And as to all the great books out there, I wish there was a statutory holiday called "Reading Week", like they have in universities. Wouldn't that be wonderful? :D

 

[dantem]

The Trumpet, written by Bauer and published anonymously, was of inspiration to Gianfranco Sanguinetti, for his 1975 pamphlet Veritable Report on the Last Chances to Save Capitalism in Italy, a situationist prank which caused him to leave Italy under the force of political pressure.

I've tried to find a bio of this Gianfranco Sanguinetti, expelled from France and then from Italy, actually for telling that it's the State that sponsors terrorism. He may have had info about Stay-behind networks before any others around it seems.

There's no birth date, no death date, just the facts that he was into the 'Situationist Art Movement', wrote few things, and not liked by any PTBs. A ghost!

 

[Laura]

New Caesar book that is (I'm on page 74) showing itself to be an EXCELLENT work:

"The Education of Julius Caesar" by Arthur D. Kahn

It really, REALLY, lays out what Rome in the time of Caesar was like. A lot of research went into it. The author spent 12 years pulling his material together; excellent bibliography, too.

Highly recommended. I mean: a MUST read for anyone interested in the life of Caesar.

http://www.amazon.com/Education-Julius-Caesar-Biography-Reconstruction/dp/0595089216/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1376591493&sr=1-1&keywords=the+education+of+julius+caesar

In this meticulously researched and absorbing biography, Arthur Kahn brings Caesar alive and explores the spirit of his age with intensity, illuminating the politics, the technological and scientific developments, military struggles, and the artistic and philosophical ferment.

Julius Caesar expressed the will of his age and brought off his grandiose plans because, writes Kahn, he saw society as a thing in motion. A man of unbending will and inexhaustible energy, he possessed wide-ranging curiosity; his eloquence and wit charmed even his enemies. Although a dictator, Caesar refused to hunt "subversives" and rejected terror as a political weapon, according to this magisterial 608-page biography. Kahn, a former classics professor, clearly admires the ruler whom he sees as "the greatest personality" of the Roman era. Twelve years in preparation, the study welds ancient and modern sources, using semifictionalized techniques to bring the past to life: "Caesar was at an age to banter with girls and grin at prostitutes ogling him from windows and doorways," the author writes at one point. Readers who can accept this technique will find Kahn's meticulously researched biography absorbing, and convincing in its re-creation of the social and political turmoil of the late Republic.

This next reviewer complains because it's "too academic" but that's one of the strong points. I also suspect a Caesar-hater because of the digs about "not always critical" and "limited interpretative insights". Yeah, right. Sounds like one of Parenti's "gentleman historians" whose goal in life is to support the version of history propagated by the PTB.

Kahn's aim is "to explore the interaction between Caesar and his times" with a "scope of imagination" that warrants the style of "fictionalized biography." Unfortunately, he falls short of these praiseworthy goals. His biography remains academic, despite the intrusion of novelistic techniques. Although his culling of the ancient sources is impressive, if not always critical, and his reliance upon direct quotation gratifying, Kahn is limited in his creation of character, scene, and drama, and in his interpretative insights, both historical and psychological. This will satisfy neither the scholar nor the historical novel reader. Robert J. Lenardon, Classics Dept., SUNY at Albany
Copyright 1986 Reed Business Information, Inc.

I thought it was interesting that Kahn was an intelligence officer.

Arthur Kahn served as an intelligence officer during WWII, obtained a doctorate degree at the age of 41 and held various teaching positions. He has published four books and numerous articles. Kahn reads nine languages and is a long-time resident of Brooklyn Heights in New York City.

Here we get a smidgen more info:
http://www.amazon.com/Writer-Critic-Essays-Arthur-Kahn/dp/059536635X

Arthur D. Kahn is an octogenarian retired Classics professor and author of twelve books on widely diverse subjects. He served as an Office of Strategic Services operative during World War II, ran for Congress in 1952 and engaged as a leader in peace organizations and civil rights struggles.

So, looks like our kind of book: real history.

 

[dant]

Thanks for the additional info Laura!

Still waiting for my book to be delivered:
"Jesus was Caesar: On the Julian origin of Christianity -
an investigative report: On the Roman Origin of Christianity"

 

[Approaching Infinity]

New Caesar book that is (I'm on page 74) showing itself to be an EXCELLENT work:

"The Education of Julius Caesar" by Arthur D. Kahn

It really, REALLY, lays out what Rome in the time of Caesar was like. A lot of research went into it. The author spent 12 years pulling his material together; excellent bibliography, too.

Highly recommended. I mean: a MUST read for anyone interested in the life of Caesar.

Just got this one after seeing it recommended in Parenti's book. Looking forward to reading it!

 

[Niall]

I thought it was interesting that Kahn was an intelligence officer.

Arthur Kahn served as an intelligence officer during WWII, obtained a doctorate degree at the age of 41 and held various teaching positions. He has published four books and numerous articles. Kahn reads nine languages and is a long-time resident of Brooklyn Heights in New York City.

Here we get a smidgen more info:
http://www.amazon.com/Writer-Critic-Essays-Arthur-Kahn/dp/059536635X

Arthur D. Kahn is an octogenarian retired Classics professor and author of twelve books on widely diverse subjects. He served as an Office of Strategic Services operative during World War II, ran for Congress in 1952 and engaged as a leader in peace organizations and civil rights struggles.

So, looks like our kind of book: real history.

Here's some more background on the author:

Experiment in Occupation, Witness to the Turnabout: Anti-Nazi War to Cold War, 1944–1946

As a participant in many of the events he writes about in Experiment in Occupation, Arthur Kahn offers a richly detailed account of the process by which the fight against Nazism came to be transformed into the Cold War. His story reveals how those in the Military Government of Germany who were dedicated to carrying out the war aims promulgated by Roosevelt and Eisenhower for a thorough democratization of Germany were ultimately defeated in their confrontation with powerful elements in the Military Government and in Washington who were more intent upon launching a preemptive war against the Soviet Union than upon the eradication of Nazism and German militarism.

A twenty-three-year-old OSS operative, Arthur Kahn was assigned after D-Day to a psychological warfare unit, where at first he supervised prisoner-of-war interrogations and then served as an editor of intelligence. Instructed to respond to requests from Supreme Headquarters, he drafted proposals for psychological warfare approaches to critical situations at the front only to discover that a SHAEF directive banned calls to the Germans to revolt.

Subsequently Kahn served in liaison with the Soviets and during the Battle of the Bulge at Montgomery's British headquarters. For several months before and after VE Day he traveled through the American Zone as an intelligence investigator and wrote a report that led to the dismissal of General George S. Patton as Military Governor of Bavaria. Appointed Chief Editor of Intelligence of the Information Control Division, he produced the most influential intelligence weekly in the American Zone. Kahn's portrayal of events in postwar Germany provides warnings for current and future American experiments in foreign occupation.

From Wiki we learn that:

Patton attracted controversy as military governor when it was noted that several former Nazi Party members continued to hold political posts in the region. When responding to the press about the subject, Patton repeatedly compared Nazis to Democrats and Republicans in noting that most of the people with experience in infrastructure management had been compelled to join the party in the war, causing negative press stateside and angering Eisenhower. On September 28, 1945, after a heated exchange with Eisenhower over his statements, Patton was relieved of his military governorship.

It looks like Kahn has been on the frontlines of the eternal battle between the Optimates and Populares.

 

[Dirgni]

Darn, at least on Amazon there arent that many copies available, and they are very pricey.

Just an FYI, I just bought one on amazon uk that was quite a bit cheaper than amazon US. I think there still may be some copies there in the $50 range.

Hmmm... I got mine for 37 euros on amazon.fr but now it says they are out of stock.

I can submit mine to being scanned if the situation doesn't change shortly. Upwards of 300 bux is ridiculous.

This book seems to be the German Version (or a previous version) of Francesco Carotta's "Jesus Was Caesar: On the Julian Origin of Christianity, An Investigative Report: On the Roman Origin of Christianity"
There are copies for less than 10 Euros available at amazon.de.

War Jesus Caesar? 2000 Jahre Anbetung einer Kopie (1999)
http://www.amazon.de/Jesus-Caesar-Jahre-Anbetung-einer/dp/3442150515/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1376904696&sr=8-3


I liked HOM very much but I got a little bit frustrated as I did know so little about the time. I am looking forward to read Secret History 3. Thank you very much for the chance to get additional and so much interesting knowledge beforehand.

 

[Rich]

I was just chiming in to say how grateful I am for this topic awakening in me a fascination and curiosity with ancient history and for motivating me to read. I've caught the Caesar bug :)

I enjoyed ET TU, JUDAS? Then Fall Jesus! especially given my recent attendance of a very happy clappy Christian wedding where I can just imagine the heretic protestations such an objective dissection of the Gospels would bring to their blind unquestioning following.

I've been getting some good use out of a kindle looking at some of the public domain sources like Plutach, Suetonius and Caesar that are freely available. It gives me a feeling of excitement to be able to read first hand accounts from these times. I enjoyed this free kindle book on the history of Julius Caesar by Jacob Abbot. It's quite an easy to read book on the historical background written in 1904 which adds its own charm such as:

On Caesar stationing supplies of horses at intervals of from ten to twenty miles along major routes he writes:

Thus they can go at any rate of speed which they desire, instead of being limited in their movements by the powers of endurance of one set of animals, as they would be compelled to be if they were to travel with their own. This plan has, for some reason, never been introduced into America, and it is now probable that it never will be, as the railway system will doubtless supersede it.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/11688/11688-h/11688-h.htm

It is also very favourable of Caesar's character and everything I've read reinforces the Caesar Jesus theory.

I've watched a couple of BBC and History Channel documentaries too, love the dramatic costume dramatizations of the era but was disappointed with the tendency for painting Caeser as a tyrant. - I suppose it's within the context of series's acting out military conquests and competing ancient ruthless leaders

Looking forward to reading the suggested books, so thank you.

 

[Thomas Alan]

I finished Gelzer' book. Julius Caesar was an impressive individual indeed. His military success was stunning. Many times surrounded or out numbered or both he would pull out a victory with daring, but calculated moves that should his grasp of the situation, understanding his own forces and those of the enemy.

Forgiving of his enemies most of the time. The exceptions seem to be when the opposing forces had earlier sworn allegiance to him and then betrayed their word. Then he could be quite ruthless.

He was a master at Strategic Enclosure. At least it is not recorded that he shared his ultimate goals with anyone.

External Considering seemed to come natural to him. He gave each what was needed from him many times praising the "wisdom" of his opponents.

And what a basket of snakes the Roman Senate was. Only concerned with protecting and enhancing their own positions with no wider vision of what might be good for all.

I like Gelzer writing style. A very clear narrative taken from mostly original sources.

I have Kahn's, Parenti's and Ancient City order. Still looking for Carotta's book at a reasonable price.

Mac

 

[Palinurus]

I've watched a couple of BBC and History Channel documentaries too, love the dramatic costume dramatizations of the era but was disappointed with the tendency for painting Caeser as a tyrant. - I suppose it's within the context of series's acting out military conquests and competing ancient ruthless leaders

For me, THE portrayal of Caesar as a real life humane character of great stature was the performance of Rex Harrison in the movie Cleopatra.

Sources:
_http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056937/
_http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056937/reviews?ref_=tt_ql_8
_http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056937/board/nest/181702108?ref_=tt_bd_2

 

[Mike]

Still looking for Carotta's book at a reasonable price.

Mac

I had two third party seller cancellations on Amazon and Amazon UK ran out of copies after I placed an order. Waiting to see if my latest try at ordering from Amazon will work out, because if it doesn't the only copy available that I could find on the internet other than the German ones is the last copy available on Amazon at over $400. :O

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Still looking for Carotta's book at a reasonable price.

Mac

I had two third party seller cancellations on Amazon and Amazon UK ran out of copies after I placed an order. Waiting to see if my latest try at ordering from Amazon will work out, because if it doesn't the only copy available that I could find on the internet other than the German ones is the last copy available on Amazon at over $400. :O

Can't read it because it's in Dutch, but there may be a way to purchase it directly from the publisher here: _http://www.uitgeverijaspekt.nl/boekdetail.php?id=9789059113961