Who is Mr. Putin?

The following article gives a view of the emerging Russia, possibly ruled by decent and competent men. I offer this essay as an antidote to the gossip and innuendo of the Western media and to add to understanding Vladimir Putin and his actions in the context of Russian history and thought, through the life and work of Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Dr. George Friedman’s essay appears in the Stratfor Geopolitical Intelligence Report. Russia has survived the crucible of tyranny and exploitation. The human spirit and reason combined emerge in today’s Russia with a different vision for humanity than greed and war. I could be wrong, but it is possible. George Friedman presents a significant insight into current geopolitics of Eurasia, and Russia's stuggle with the psychopaths of the West.

ark said:
I do not think there are ANY heroes among the politicians. Am I wrong? Then let me have an example of a spotless hero from the past history of the humanity. I do not know one example.

I will answer your question, Ark. There are no heroes, but there are heroic deeds and dastardly deeds done by the same man. I have seen this in the recapitulation of my own life. Alexander Solzhenitsyn and Andrew M. Lobaczewski may be as close to heroes as we find, with their lives and work a gift to humanity.



Stratfor

George Friedman

There are many people who write history. There are very few who make history through their writings. Alexander Solzhenitsyn, who died this week at the age of 89, was one of them. In many ways, Solzhenitsyn laid the intellectual foundations for the fall of Soviet communism. That is well known. But Solzhenitsyn also laid the intellectual foundation for the Russia that is now emerging. That is less well known, and in some ways more important.
Solzhenitsyn’s role in the Soviet Union was simple. His writings, and in particular his book “One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich,” laid bare the nature of the Soviet regime. The book described a day in the life of a prisoner in a Soviet concentration camp, where the guilty and innocent alike were sent to have their lives squeezed out of them in endless and hopeless labor. It was a topic Solzhenitsyn knew well, having been a prisoner in such a camp following service in World War II.
The book was published in the Soviet Union during the reign of Nikita Khrushchev. Khrushchev had turned on his patron, Joseph Stalin, after taking control of the Communist Party apparatus following Stalin’s death. In a famous secret speech delivered to the leadership of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Khrushchev denounced Stalin for his murderous ways. Allowing Solzhenitsyn’s book to be published suited Khrushchev. Khrushchev wanted to detail Stalin’s crimes graphically, and Solzhenitsyn’s portrayal of life in a labor camp served his purposes.
It also served a dramatic purpose in the West when it was translated and distributed there. Ever since its founding, the Soviet Union had been mythologized. This was particularly true among Western intellectuals, who had been taken by not only the romance of socialism, but also by the image of intellectuals staging a revolution. Vladimir Lenin, after all, had been the author of works such as “Materialism and Empirio-Criticism.” The vision of intellectuals as revolutionaries gripped many European and American intellectuals.
These intellectuals had missed not only that the Soviet Union was a social catastrophe, but that, far from being ruled by intellectuals, it was being ruled by thugs. For an extraordinarily long time, in spite of ample testimony by emigres from the Soviet regime, Western intellectuals simply denied this reality. When Western intellectuals wrote that they had “seen the future and it worked,” they were writing at a time when the Soviet terror was already well under way. They simply couldn’t see it.
One of the most important things about “One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich” was not only that it was so powerful, but that it had been released under the aegis of the Soviet state, meaning it could not simply be ignored. Solzhenitsyn was critical in breaking the intellectual and moral logjam among intellectuals in the West. You had to be extraordinarily dense or dishonest to continue denying the obvious, which was that the state that Lenin and Stalin had created was a moral monstrosity.
Khrushchev’s intentions were not Solzhenitsyn’s. Khrushchev wanted to demonstrate the evils of Stalinism while demonstrating that the regime could reform itself and, more important, that communism was not invalidated by Stalin’s crimes. Solzhenitsyn, on the other hand, held the view that the labor camps were not incidental to communism, but at its heart. He argued in his “Gulag Archipelago” that the systemic exploitation of labor was essential to the regime not only because it provided a pool of free labor, but because it imposed a systematic terror on those not in the gulag that stabilized the regime. His most telling point was that while Khrushchev had condemned Stalin, he did not dismantle the gulag; the gulag remained in operation until the end.
Though Solzhenitsyn served the regime’s purposes in the 1960s, his usefulness had waned by the 1970s. By then, Solzhenitsyn was properly perceived by the Soviet regime as a threat. In the West, he was seen as a hero by all parties. Conservatives saw him as an enemy of communism. Liberals saw him as a champion of human rights. Each invented Solzhenitsyn in their own image. He was given the Nobel Prize for Literature, which immunized him against arrest and certified him as a great writer. Instead of arresting him, the Soviets expelled him, sending him into exile in the United States.
When he reached Vermont, the reality of who Solzhenitsyn was slowly sank in. Conservatives realized that while he certainly was an enemy of communism and despised Western liberals who made apologies for the Soviets, he also despised Western capitalism just as much. Liberals realized that Solzhenitsyn hated Soviet oppression, but that he also despised their obsession with individual rights, such as the right to unlimited free expression. Solzhenitsyn was nothing like anyone had thought, and he went from being the heroic intellectual to a tiresome crank in no time. Solzhenitsyn attacked the idea that the alternative to communism had to be secular, individualist humanism. He had a much different alternative in mind.
Solzhenitsyn saw the basic problem that humanity faced as being rooted in the French Enlightenment and modern science. Both identify the world with nature, and nature with matter. If humans are part of nature, they themselves are material. If humans are material, then what is the realm of God and of spirit? And if there is no room for God and spirituality, then what keeps humans from sinking into bestiality? For Solzhenitsyn, Stalin was impossible without Lenin’s praise of materialism, and Lenin was impossible without the Enlightenment.
From Solzhenitsyn’s point of view, Western capitalism and liberalism are in their own way as horrible as Stalinism. Adam Smith saw man as primarily pursuing economic ends. Economic man seeks to maximize his wealth. Solzhenitsyn tried to make the case that this is the most pointless life conceivable. He was not objecting to either property or wealth, but to the idea that the pursuit of wealth is the primary purpose of a human being, and that the purpose of society is to free humans to this end.
Solzhenitsyn made the case — hardly unique to him — that the pursuit of wealth as an end in itself left humans empty shells. He once noted Blaise Pascal’s aphorism that humans are so endlessly busy so that they can forget that they are going to die — the point being that we all die, and that how we die is determined by how we live. For Solzhenitsyn, the American pursuit of economic well being was a disease destroying the Western soul.
He viewed freedom of expression in the same way. For Americans, the right to express oneself transcends the content of the expression. That you speak matters more than what you say. To Solzhenitsyn, the same principle that turned humans into obsessive pursuers of wealth turned them into vapid purveyors of shallow ideas. Materialism led to individualism, and individualism led to a culture devoid of spirit. The freedom of the West, according to Solzhenitsyn, produced a horrifying culture of intellectual self-indulgence, licentiousness and spiritual poverty. In a contemporary context, the hedge fund coupled with The Daily Show constituted the bankruptcy of the West.
To have been present when he once addressed a Harvard commencement! On the one side, Harvard Law and Business School graduates — the embodiment of economic man. On the other side, the School of Arts and Sciences, the embodiment of free expression. Both greeted their heroic resister, only to have him reveal himself to be religious, patriotic and totally contemptuous of the Vatican of self-esteem, Harvard.
Solzhenitsyn had no real home in the United States, and with the fall of the Soviets, he could return to Russia — where he witnessed what was undoubtedly the ultimate nightmare for him: thugs not only running the country, but running it as if they were Americans. Now, Russians were pursuing wealth as an end in itself and pleasure as a natural right. In all of this, Solzhenitsyn had not changed at all.
Solzhenitsyn believed there was an authentic Russia that would emerge from this disaster. It would be a Russia that first and foremost celebrated the motherland, a Russia that accepted and enjoyed its uniqueness. This Russia would take its bearings from no one else. At the heart of this Russia would be the Russian Orthodox Church, with not only its spirituality, but its traditions, rituals and art.
The state’s mission would be to defend the motherland, create the conditions for cultural renaissance, and — not unimportantly — assure a decent economic life for its citizens. Russia would be built on two pillars: the state and the church. It was within this context that Russians would make a living. The goal would not be to create the wealthiest state in the world, nor radical equality. Nor would it be a place where anyone could say whatever they wanted, not because they would be arrested necessarily, but because they would be socially ostracized for saying certain things.
Most important, it would be a state not ruled by the market, but a market ruled by a state. Economic strength was not trivial to Solzhenitsyn, either for individuals or for societies, but it was never to be an end in itself and must always be tempered by other considerations. As for foreigners, Russia must always guard itself, as any nation must, against foreigners seeking its wealth or wanting to invade. Solzhenitsyn wrote a book called “August 1914,” in which he argues that the czarist regime had failed the nation by not being prepared for war.
Think now of the Russia that Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Dmitri Medvedev are shaping. The Russian Orthodox Church is undergoing a massive resurgence, the market is submitting to the state, free expression is being tempered and so on. We doubt Putin was reading Solzhenitsyn when reshaping Russia. But we do believe that Solzhenitsyn had an understanding of Russia that towered over most of his contemporaries. And we believe that the traditional Russia that Solzhenitsyn celebrated is emerging, more from its own force than by political decisions.
Solzhenitsyn served Western purposes when he undermined the Soviet state. But that was not his purpose. His purpose was to destroy the Soviet state so that his vision of Russia could re-emerge. When his interests and the West’s coincided, he won the Nobel Prize. When they diverged, he became a joke. But Solzhenitsyn never really cared what Americans or the French thought of him and his ideas. He wasn’t speaking to them and had no interest or hope of remaking them. Solzhenitsyn was totally alien to American culture. He was speaking to Russia and the vision he had was a resurrection of Mother Russia, if not with the czar, then certainly with the church and state. That did not mean liberalism; Mother Russia was dramatically oppressive. But it was neither a country of mass murder nor of vulgar materialism.
It must also be remembered that when Solzhenitsyn spoke of Russia, he meant imperial Russia at its height, and imperial Russia’s borders at its height looked more like the Soviet Union than they looked like Russia today. “August 1914” is a book that addresses geopolitics. Russian greatness did not have to express itself via empire, but logically it should — something to which Solzhenitsyn would not have objected.
Solzhenitsyn could not teach Americans, whose intellectual genes were incompatible with his. But it is hard to think of anyone who spoke to the Russian soul as deeply as he did. He first ripped Russia apart with his indictment. He was later ignored by a Russia out of control under former President Boris Yeltsin. But today’s Russia is very slowly moving in the direction that Solzhenitsyn wanted. And that could make Russia extraordinarily powerful. Imagine a Soviet Union not ruled by thugs and incompetents. Imagine Russia ruled by people resembling Solzhenitsyn’s vision of a decent man.
Solzhenitsyn was far more prophetic about the future of the Soviet Union than almost all of the Ph.D.s in Russian studies. Entertain the possibility that the rest of Solzhenitsyn’s vision will come to pass. It is an idea that ought to cause the world to be very thoughtful.
 
Hildegarda said:
A question was raised just recently, “Is Putin a Psychopath”? Tough call.

(snip)
With that in mind, here are those direct quotes from Ludmila Putina:

I'm not seeing a 'trail of destruction' here, just a man who cares overly for 'the rules' - because he knows that to live by these, will gain him approval and get him where he wants to go.... and he cares A LOT about what authority figures think. I mean he asked for his mother's approval before starting a relationship with his current wife. Then he spends much of their relationship 'testing' her almost to see if she is 'good enough'.

Lots of men behave like this. I'm not sure about women, but when it comes to relationships they almost always rely on others (friends, collegues or mothers) to tell them whether to proceed or not. I have seen and experienced this many times. The constant looking for approval, the constant need for conformity from themselves and other round them.

Just my two cents worth. ;)

Personally, I don't think he's a psychopath. Otherwise he wouldn't CARE what his mother or anyone else for that matter, thought. He might pretend, though. But no-one can hold a pretense for long.
 
Ruth said:
he cares A LOT about what authority figures think. [..] The constant looking for approval, the constant need for conformity from themselves and other round them.

an authoritarian personality?

found something else -- I read it long ago in mag and thought very interesting, here is a quote:
\\\http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200503/starobin

In First Person (2000), a collection of interviews with and about him, Vladimir Putin mentions being beaten by stronger children in his rough-and-tumble neighborhood in Leningrad. It's not clear whether he was generally the instigator of the combat or responding to taunts and insults he felt should not go unchallenged. In any case, he resolved to fortify himself. "As soon as it became clear that my pugnacious nature was not going to keep me king of the courtyard or schoolgrounds," he said, "I decided to go into boxing." After getting his nose broken, he took up sambo, a Soviet combination of judo and wrestling, and finally settled on judo. He devoted himself to rigorous workouts and became a black belt and a city-wide champion. He fought like a "snow leopard," his coach once said, "determined to win at any cost."

The wonder is that he even made it into childhood. Two older brothers had died of illnesses, one in infancy and the other at age five. When Vladimir was born, on October 7, 1952, his mother was forty-one, and her prenatal health had no doubt been poor. A decade earlier, during the Nazi siege of Leningrad, there were mass deaths from starvation; "Mama herself was half dead," Putin recalls in First Person. His father, recuperating in a hospital from severe leg wounds caused by German shrapnel, gave her his food. After the war "Papa" went to work as a laborer at a train-car factory. He was given a room in a fifth-floor communal walk-up at 12 Baskov Lane, where Putin grew up, about a twenty-minute stroll from Nevsky Prospekt, the city's main thoroughfare. There were "hordes of rats" in the front entryway, which the young Putin chased with sticks. Once, he cornered one—only to have it rush at him. Frightened, Putin slammed the door shut "in its nose."

I recently came across an intriguing hypothesis about Putin's survival skills. Brenda L. Connors, a senior fellow in the strategic-research department of the Naval War College, in Newport, Rhode Island, is both a former State Department protocol and political-affairs officer and a onetime soloist with the Erick Hawkins Dance Company. Her field of study is a distinctive one: she is a certified "movement analyst." Because of her experience greeting Mikhail Gorbachev and other global figures and her study of modern dance, Connors became intrigued by how body movement—everything from a particular way of walking to hand gestures and facial expressions—constitutes a language for conveying not only emotion but also leadership styles and behavioral patterns. From close analysis of physical traits, captured on tape and examined with the help of experts in medicine, psychology, anthropology, and other fields, she has developed character profiles of a number of world leaders. Her work may sound esoteric, but it is endorsed by, among others, Andrew Marshall, the legendary director of "net assessment" in the Pentagon, and Leon Aron, a leading Russia specialist at the American Enterprise Institute, in Washington, and the author of an acclaimed biography of Yeltsin.

I paid a visit to Connors at her Newport office not long ago. We had chatted on the phone about her work on Putin—in particular about her detection of a striking irregularity in his gait—and I was eager to see her tapes and to hear more. After a tour of her lab we watched a tape she had made of Putin, compiled mostly from Russian television footage. The tape rolled to a shot of Putin at his first inauguration, in the spring of 2000, at the Andrei Hall of the Great Kremlin Palace. "Here's the picture," she said, as we watched Putin enter the hall and stride down a long red carpet. I saw what she meant only when she slowed the tape—and when she did, I was taken aback. Putin's left arm and leg were moving in an easy, natural rhythm. But his right arm, bent at the elbow, moved in a stiff way, as if jerked by the shoulder, and the right leg dragged, without absorbing his full weight. When she replayed the segment at normal speed, it was easy to pick up on the impediment, and then I had no trouble spotting it in other segments. All the momentum and energy in Putin's gait comes from the left side; it is as if the right side is just along for the ride. Even the right side of his torso seems frozen. When he is holding a pen, his right hand appears to have only an awkward, tenuous grasp on it.

Connors has shown footage of Putin's walk to a range of experts, including A. Thomas Pezzella, a cardiac-thoracic surgeon based in St. Louis; two orthopedic surgeons and a physical therapist at the naval hospital in Newport; and Bonnie Bainbridge Cohen, the founder of the School for Body-Mind Centering, in Amherst, Massachusetts, who is certified as something called a neurodevelopmental therapist. They offer a variety of conjectures: Putin could have had a stroke, perhaps suffered in utero; he may be afflicted with, as Pezzella speculates, an Erb's palsy, caused by a forceps tugging on his right shoulder at birth; he could have had polio as a child (polio was epidemic in Europe and western Russia after World War II). The stroke theory is consistent with what appears to be the loss of neural sensation in the fingers of his right hand. (Videotape of Putin at judo matches shows him using his fist, rather than a splayed hand, to push himself up off the mat.) Based on what she has seen and on her consultation with other experts, Connors doubts that Putin ever crawled as an infant; he seems to lack what is called contra-lateral movement and instead tends to move in a head-to-tail pattern, like a fish or a reptile.

Connors believes that Putin's infirmities "created a strong will that he survive and an impetus to balance and strengthen the body." She continues, "When we are unable to do something, really hard work becomes the way." His prowess at judo astonishes her: "He is like that ice skater who had a club foot and became an Olympic skater." Although her research sounds clinical, Connors empathizes with her subject. "It is really poignant to watch him on tape," she says of Putin. "This is a deep, old, profound loss that he has learned to cope with, magnificently." When I heard this, it was impossible for me not to think of another frail child possessed of a fierce will who turned to rigorous physical exercise and pugilism and grew up to be a head of state: Theodore Roosevelt.

Some of Connors's analytical ventures seem unconvincing. She suggests, for example, that Putin's instinct to make himself whole is mirrored in his imperative to keep Russia from breaking up—but any Russian leader would feel a similar sense of duty. The notion that Putin displays reptilian qualities, however, is not as odd as it may sound; even though ontogeny may not exactly recapitulate phylogeny, modern biology does recognize links between embryonic development and the evolutionary sequences. A characteristic of reptiles, Connors says, is that "they patrol their borders, and if an alien enters, lunge reflexively." That is as good a description of Putin's behavior in response to militants in the northern Caucasus as any political analyst has offered.
 
Brenda L. Connors, a senior fellow in the strategic-research department of the Naval War College, in Newport, Rhode Island, is both a former State Department protocol and political-affairs officer and might have an agenda in describing Vladimir Putin as having reptilian characteristics. Western media has published this sort of yellow journalism after the jewish oligarch, Mikhail Khodokovsky was sent to prison and Yukos oil confiscated by the Russian government. Exxon Mobil was in negotiation to take control of Yukos oil. The oligarchs and their friends have been waging a disinformation campaign against Vladimir Putin since the Khodokovsky affair.


Brenda Conners said:
that Putin's instinct to make himself whole is mirrored in his imperative to keep Russia from breaking up—but any Russian leader would feel a similar sense of duty. The notion that Putin displays reptilian qualities, however, is not as odd as it may sound; even though ontogeny may not exactly recapitulate phylogeny, modern biology does recognize links between embryonic development and the evolutionary sequences. A characteristic of reptiles, Connors says, is that "they patrol their borders, and if an alien enters, lunge reflexively." That is as good a description of Putin's behavior in response to militants in the northern Caucasus as any political analyst has offered.

Do you think Brenda Connors and Atlantic Magazine are fairly reporting on Vladimir Putin, when they describe him as reptilian, Hildegarda? Do you think defending the interests of the Russian people is pathological?
 
hild said:
That could be. Reading the news and the accounts of simple people who are stuck in bad circumstances, looking at the hypocrisy of PTB, is an emotional experience. But the only way to to utilize this energy is to continue pushing and looking for clues.

And these circumstances transcend borders - and looking for clues is much more effective when one is not 'thinking' with 'emotional' energy.

h said:
as for invested ... I am not invested in Putin being a psychopath, or not.

Are you certain? It appears that your are fervently searching for proof of such and ignoring data that indicates otherwise.

h said:
As Ark said, no politician is a spotless hero, and we don't need heroes anyway.

Of course no politician is a spotless hero - this is planet Earth in 2008. Not sure what you mean by 'we don't need heroes anyway'.

h said:
the question was asked, and I was simply sharing some information I had, that I thought may be of value.

Actually, you are sharing information to prove that Putin is a psychopath. You are not sharing information to the contrary. As I stated earlier, I am not saying that Putin is not a psychopath, however, it is very clear that there is some degree of emotional investment on your part that you prove Putin to be what you think he is.

What is not clear is whether this is just a case of 'right man syndrome' or if, for some reason, you are emotionally convinced that he is a psychopath, but either way - the 'flavor' is present, so, perhaps it might be worthwhile to take a step back and consider this factor in the equation?
 
go2 said:
Do you think Brenda Connors and Atlantic Magazine are fairly reporting on Vladimir Putin, when they describe him as reptilian

I think they are accurately describing his gate and arm mobility. You can see it on the videos where he is seen walking; those video-segments of him doing judo are also available on Youtube. And, the conclusion that partial paralysis may be linked to brain damage also may be correct, it makes sense physiologically. If true, that can impact character traits, as Lobachewsky in Ponerology suggests.

As for "reptilian qualities", I am not sure whether you can infer them from the way he moves, like Connor does. But the association with the "reptilian brain" does emerge, and that would agree with the qualities of authoritarian personality that Ruth brought up.

Whether they are reporting "fairly" -- I thought, from the way that segment was written, that they are definitely giving him a credit for persevering, compensating and achieving despite of it, which is good to see.

go2 said:
Do you think defending the interests of the Russian people is pathological?

No, I don't. It's just that, knowing Russian history and having been following the news on Russian websites closely for a long time, I am not convinced that he has been defending the interests of the average Russians adequately, if at all. But, that's just my observation.

[quote author=anart]
you are sharing information to prove that Putin is a psychopath. You are not sharing information to the contrary. [/quote]

If I find some information to that effect from Russian sources (from which I was drawing for this discussion), I will of course also put it on the table. That said, any new factual information you know and can contribute, will also be very helpful. (go2, thank you for a thought-provoking article on Solzhenitsyn. ) Thanks for pointing out the possible flaws in my thinking.
 
I must have hit the wrong button yesterday as I don't see my post.
Essentially, I was thinking that perhaps Putin is making the best of his situation between a rock and a hard place as a Russian leader, as so many in the past have, perhaps back to those days of all those tribes moving through the area... dropped off and making their way through in every direction. Perhaps he's merely trying to graduate STS? or perhaps he is like Frankline Roosevelt before WW2 started and finding himself in a tricky situation. It is rather obvious that there is a chessgame going on and that Russia is no different in that it is pulled in directions not always of Putin's making. That whole Georgian/Poland situation is sooo convenient don't you think? How to arrange the peices on the chessboard for the next set of moves? How to get the new Polish PM to accept USA missiles? How to goad Europe into getter acceptance of USA dominance in the world empire it's founding, even as it's former financial basis collapses and forces their hand to play along?

Putin is no angel, neither was FDR when he had the Japanese-Americans put into camps, misled the people into war etc. Putin allows the mistreatment of press/foreigners to occur or leads these policies? Hard to tell isn't it? Same as the C's said about psychopaths/OP's etc... hard to distinguish them from 'us', if I can be so bold as to put myself in the non-op/Adamic category. How to distinguish between a psychopathic OP and a 3dSTSer seeking graduation? Putin in my opinion seems to pay attention to those around him too much to put out the nonsensical lies like we get here in the States from the White House, MSM, etc. His steps seem more thought out and planned like someone seeking service to self, consciously or not. The whole cultural baggage is always hard to discipher (can't find correct spelling in dictionary, sorry) :/.

In closing, I think it doesn't matter so much as how he plays his hand in this game. He seems to recognize at least the typical imperial actions going on around him/his country, especially as he grew up in the overt Soviet Union and its weakened transition to a Russian state under Yeltsin. Yes, it no doubt feeds the insecurity aspect of those wishing to reestablish power, but does that equate him with Hitler and his similiar intent as we have been lead to believe it? Putin seems self-consciously aware and those in the 'weaker' position have to keep their wits about them in engagement with the enemy, and he seems to be doing just that so far. Can he fight the tendency to be led into the next 'war to end all wars'? Hard to tell, but my feeling is that he at least sees the game being played around him from those oligarchs encouraged in the West who thought they could 'use' him to the Bush2 gang who thought much the same. Add that STS tendency at all levels to see only what they want to see and perhaps Putin does indeed have a little leeway in his actions if played correctly, but he does seem to find himself between a rock and a hard place.

But isn't that what the 'hard knock life' of one's youth is for if not training? Either way, it's interesting to watch him play his hand against the supposedly tall giant of the USA as it attempts to gobble up the world for the NWO.
 
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4734894.ece
George Bush isn't in charge, says Vladimir Putin

In a thinly veiled dig at George Bush, Vladimir Putin today suggested that the US President was not in charge of American affairs, saying that it was “the court that makes the king”.

Amid heightened tensions with the US in the wake of the war in Georgia, the Russian Prime Minister insisted that the US leader was a man of honour and integrity, but blamed members of the administration for the sharp deterioration of relations with Russia.

”I still hope we will maintain good relations, but it is the court that makes the king,” he told a group of foreign journalists in an interview at his residence in the Black Sea resort of Sochi.

He nonetheless spoke fondly of his relationship with Mr Bush, saying, only half-jokingly: ”I treat President Bush better than some Americans would”.

At times Mr Putin displayed genuine anger, particularly when discussing the deployment of US navy warships just off the Russian Black Sea coast. Much of his criticism was aimed directly at the Bush administration which he accused of training and army the Georgian military and encouraging its leadership to launch last month’s assault on the breakaway province of South Ossetia.

"Should we have wiped the bloody snot off our face and bowed our head? Should we have waved our penknives?” he said in response to the mobilisation of Georgian tanks and troops.
 
I'm with Ark and Anart on this one. None of this "evidence" comes across as conclusive proof or even strongly suggesting that Putin may be a sociopath. Now, I don't know much about the guy and don't have an opinion either way on whether he's a good president or not (Russian affairs just aren't high on my to-learn list at this time), but what the quotes suggest to me is that a.) he might be a bit of a jerk, b.) it sounds like he has an authoritarian personality at least in relation to his home-life, and c.) his wife was totally co-dependent.

In fact, I'm more shocked (as a woman who has dated my fair share of jerks) that his wife willingly went along with as much as she did. And now she wants to complain, all these years later? (Sounds like my ex-mother-in-law. :rolleyes:) That just doesn't sound credible in my book. Now she's upset and relating stories about what a mousy sheep she was, but it comes off sounding more like an issue within her own self than in anyone else. If she's the "type" I have her pegged as, had she not hooked on with Vladimir, she likely would have found some other controlling schlub. Perhaps an abusive one even. That's not intended to put her down, but damn, why choose to be a man's doormat like that? Had he not put a stop to things, she'd likely still be willing to be his doormat, forever until death do they part.

But then again, that's all pure speculation (to mirror the original poster). Just calling it how I see from what little bit of info we have to go on here, from a disgruntled wife aiming for a book deal no less.
 
AM said:
None of this "evidence" comes across as conclusive proof or evenly strongly suggesting that Putin may be a sociopath.

The question actually isn't whether Putin is a sociopath, it is whether he is a psychopath - understanding the difference between the two is crucial.

As I posted in another thread:

If you have not had the opportunity to read Political Ponerology by Lobaczewski, it would alleviate that misunderstanding. Other works that would help clarify the difference are :

Mask of Sanity - Hervey Cleckley
In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simon
Sociopath Next Door - Martha Stout
Without Conscience - Robert Hare
Snakes in Suits - Robert Hare and Paul Babiak
Predators - Anna Salter


It would be beneficial for you to come to a deeper understanding simply to be able to discuss these issues without confusing sociopathy and psychopathy.
 
Something has been puzzling me about this Ludmila Putina interview, under the thread heading of 'Is Putin a Psychopath'?

If Putin is such a 'difficult' man, would he have allowed his wife's rather searing and highly personal comments on their domestic life to be made public? He certainly seems to be unfazed by Ludmila's disclosures. Surely he would have read the transcripts first?

Don't our dear western leaders prefer their spouse's interviews to be highly complimentary to the Great Man, whichever one it is, when they are allowed at all?

For sure, Putin has his faults (who doesn't?), but in this instance he seems to be rather indulgent to his wife's indiscretion in these interviews, osit.

Maybe it's just me?
 
I have to agree that Ludmila does not come across as very believable. Nor does she come across as someone who has any business being married to a "man with an aim."
 
bedower said:
If Putin is such a 'difficult' man, would he have allowed his wife's rather searing and highly personal comments on their domestic life to be made public? He certainly seems to be unfazed by Ludmila's disclosures. Surely he would have read the transcripts first?

Don't our dear western leaders prefer their spouse's interviews to be highly complimentary to the Great Man, whichever one it is, when they are allowed at all?

For sure, Putin has his faults (who doesn't?), but in this instance he seems to be rather indulgent to his wife's indiscretion in these interviews, osit.

Maybe it's just me?

Maybe the western standards are that women should be "highly complimentary to the Great Man" as you said. But from a traditional-conservative Greek point of view for example -which i do not approve but it might be a bit closer to Russia's-, a "true man" SHOULD have this kind of control and relationship with his wife, since the traditional greek values consider this attitude "masculine" and a sign of "male integrity". So in that context -one of the many existing of course- Putin's behaviour all in all might be rather desirable than blamefull, especially for a "leader's" profile where his service and loyalty to the "country" or whatever should be or appear to be greater than any other. And even more so when we are talking about his own wife, the mother of his kids. It doesn't sound THAT bad for "the leader of a nation" to be like that to ears of the average citizen, does it? A "dedicated" and "dominant" male not someone who lives in his wife's skirt. Maybe IMO that could explain the publicising of such deeply personal info on Putin. Instead, imagine a leader that would say to his wife things like: "i would do anything for you, you are the world to me, you are above all" etc. Well, it is ok and commendable for your next-door neighbour to be like that, but maybe this is not what is expected or valued from the crowd in the profile of a leading figure. So in that context the interview of Ludmila is not so damaging after all, but gives or plants some necessary clues that make Putin apear to be worthy of his power to the eyes of Russians... Just some thoughts on this. :)
 
Point taken, Spyaal.

Nevertheless, I still found Ludmila's disclosures to be more of a negative rather than a positive affirmation of Putin's strengths.

For instance, what is missing from this interview are phrases like; "Vladimir is a strongly moral man" - "Vladimir is a patriot" - "Vladimir has strong views on the difference between right and wrong, and he always wants to do what is right." - and so on and so on... You catch my drift, here? She does not use any of the phrases I would associate with a loyal wife giving a public interview.

She does not positively affirm Putin's strengths. And he does have them, as we are witnessing today (political nous, for one, osit).

This is what I find puzzling.
 
I can see what you mean Bedower. But just for the sake of conversation, i think that Russian people might be capable of doing some BASIC ponerological thinking due to the hard facts of post-soviet Russian history. The have some very fresh "bad" memories which few nations do. Putin's image makers might know that people feel that a "virtuous" and "righteous" person cannot fight and survive in the dirty global arena of politics. IMO, what people are lead to ask in these troubled times is that their leaders can out-smart, out-courage, out-wit etc. and finally overcome "the enemies of their nation".

Maybe in American politics, the false belief in USA being the undenied superpower, has allowed the electional propaganda to make extensive use this glossy "good and honest family man" polish -and a lot more in the the pre-9/11 era. But, in many other countries that experience local problems with their relationship with other nations (like Russia) and other "national dangers", people expect their "leaders" to project power and sovereignty and not only family values and respect to the rights of woman. So a "bad boy" might be more efficient and needed in our times that a "good boy" who plays by the rules and thus "self-restricts" himself.

The fact is that if what she confessed is anywhere close to the truth, then she would NEVER take the initiative by herself and talk in public about "VV" without his consent! If we accept that -which i do as the most probable hypothesis- then i assume they believe that the words of Ludmila are actually good for the profile of Putin as a leader of the former super-power in the Earth year 2008. I would also like to able to know who was the intended receiver of this interview when they released it in the press. That would tell a lot. But my vote is that it was for "domestic consumption".
 
Back
Top Bottom